The 'Learn to Play' Argument

[Ravenspear 22]

Or, in other words, one of the most flawed arguments out there. Let me try to explain myself here, and why I believe that this argument is completely worthless, and means nothing when spouted off at any person who's trying to make a valid point of their experiences within the mod.

I'm sure everyone reading this knows full well what the words 'learn to play' mean. Unfortunately, this statement has become almost parallel with the demands that a player 'go back to WOW', or 'return to COD, you CoD nubz, you'.

The problem is that the 'Learn to Play' statement could be a perfectly valid one, if it was in response to a player who has obviously proven that he does not know how to play. More often than not, however, it is simply placed in response to a player stating his opinion about certain changes made in the framework of the mod. The most recent example of this can be found in seemingly any possible thread about the 1.7.1/1.7.1.1 changes, notably those involving increased zombie aggro and the removal of the starter weapon. It has been repeatedly used against players that not only have proven their ability to play, but their skills in doing so. Even when such players are interrupted by bugs, and happen to complain about it in these forums, it seems that the L2P argument will invariably be thrown against them at some point or another...

[pstar 1]

all i want to do is play the game

i hate all these elitists talking shit to everybody. makes me feel bad.

[Ravenspear 22]

The best advice I can give you, then, is to simply play the game... Sadly, posting a question or complaint on these forums seems doomed to failure at most times, so my current modus operandi is to basically just watch for the update posts from rocket, and to ignore most everything else.

[Imbalanxd 59]

The notion of "knowing how to play the game" is a relative one. To my mom, I am really good at starcraft, to a Korean, I am utterly hopeless.

From my perspective, a player who is currently having difficulties avoiding zombies, or struggling to survive without his starting Makarov, has shown that he does not know how to play the game, and therefore needs to learn to do so.

Learn to play brah

[Ravenspear 22]

Certainly, it is based on a matter of perspective, but if you asked a Korean if you should learn more about starcraft, he would probably tell you a few things. It's not how well you know the game mechanics. You probably know just as much about starcraft as any Korean out there, they're just quite a bit faster. If you've ever watched a (stereotypical) Korean play the game, he does the same things you would do, but he's a hell of a lot faster than you at it. Simply telling people to learn something isn't much help. Encouragement and advice goes a hell of a lot further than, and I quote here "Learn to play brah".

[Knightmare (DayZ) 109]

I'm not a fan of the cliche use of L2P.

However, there are times where Learn To Play is exactly the medicine prescribed. It's people who don't adapt and overcome or fail to understand, or correlate that A+B=C. They exist, and sometimes they're very vocal in believing they are correct, that they are not at fault in any way, shape or form.

During bad online arguments..

You've got two vocal sides, a "lol L2P noob" elitist side, and a "really-does-need-to-learn-to-play, but thinks they're right anyways" noob side.

Not everyone falls into those categories, but typically the most riled up folks are.

[JPalmer 3]

The mod being in Alpha is a meta-game in itself. It being in the ARMA engine another...

I think this community has the biggest knee-jerk reaction ever(And I come from the Planetside community, lol.)

Many people do not have respect for others and I am not talking about in-game. I am talking about discussion. Some or most certainly don't have respect for rocket. And anyone who tries to explain that features need to be tested and bugs will happen automatically are ignored and told to ride rocket's dick more.

It is possible to survive in the current version. I have died 3 times in it and I have found weapons and the gear to hunt animals and cook meat.

The next hotfix is going to fix food and drinks. This is the perfect example of a Alpha situation that this community is ignorant of. Everyone was complaining over the lack of food. It was a bug or set wrong and guess what? It is being patched.

If people would just sit back, relax, and wait. This community would be a benefit to the people behind the mod and in the future the game.

[Ravenspear 22]

And sadly, this is where the often understated difference between the term noob and the term newb will arise. A newb is a new player, one who has not yet grown used to the game, and may require a bit of help in his/her endeavors to understand it. A noob, on the opposite hand, is a player who has had more than enough time to grow used to the game, and the way it works, yet steadfastly refuses to understand it.

[Imbalanxd 59]

Would "be better" suffice?

Tom foolery aside, the term learn to play isn't really used in DayZ in the same way as, for example, COD. When a COD kid says learn to play, he means learn to aim better, learn to quickscope better, learn to listen to dubstep better, learn to jump around like a druggy better, or whatever the fuck it is they do in COD. When a DayZ player says learn to play, what they mean (or at least what they should mean) is that you need to accept DayZ. That entails understanding that playability is never an acceptable reason to change something.

You've got not gun and so you can't kill any zombies and bandits kill you? Nobody cares, that's DayZ life. The zombies have a large agro radius and you can't get past them? To bad, enjoy your zombos bro. None of these are legitimate reasons to change anything. In COD or BF3 or WoW they might be, but not DayZ.

[Ravenspear 22]

Well, that may be, but none of those things you have stated have anything to do with the playstyle of the player. Perhaps "Learn more about the game" would suffice better than 'Learn to Play"

[switch296 20]

I survive just fine in 1.7.1.1

Would you prefer I say "Get on my level" than "learn to play" ?

:)

[Ravenspear 22]

I'm just saying that the term 'learn to play' is used in situations that generally don't make any sense xD.

[chickenbandit 2]

I'm sure everyone reading this knows full well what the words 'learn to play' mean. Unfortunately' date=' this statement has become almost parallel with the demands that a player 'go back to WOW', or 'return to COD, you CoD nubz, you'.

[/quote']

No, when I say it I'm saying "If anything I'm finding 1.7.1 easier than ever, so I have no damn clue how you're having so much trouble, you must suck at the game. Get better."

[mansen 1]

Learn to play - aka. read up before jumping into a completely new game or you'll suffer a quick death and an awful lot of ridicule afterwards from the forumgoers when you come here to whine afterwards.

Yep - pretty much summed it up.

[Ravenspear 22]

I'm sure everyone reading this knows full well what the words 'learn to play' mean. Unfortunately' date=' this statement has become almost parallel with the demands that a player 'go back to WOW', or 'return to COD, you CoD nubz, you'.

[/quote']

No, when I say it I'm saying "If anything I'm finding 1.7.1 easier than ever, so I have no damn clue how you're having so much trouble, you must suck at the game. Get better."

Well, then why can't you just say that? You seem to have such an easy time writing it... 'learn to play' means a lot of things, but only in context to the individual. You might have to explain it to the people who are complaining.

[Imbalanxd 59]

I'm just saying that the term 'learn to play' is used in situations that generally don't make any sense xD.

You stated that petitioning for starting weapons and complaints about zombie agro are times when you cannot use the term. It makes complete sense to tell such people to learn to play.

[Ravenspear 22]

No, it makes complete sense to tell them to 'adapt'. They know how to play, they just don't like playing like that.

[Niffz 0]

Would "be better" suffice?

Tom foolery aside' date=' the term learn to play isn't really used in DayZ in the same way as, for example, COD. When a COD kid says learn to play, he means learn to aim better, learn to quickscope better, learn to listen to dubstep better, learn to jump around like a druggy better, or whatever the fuck it is they do in COD. When a DayZ player says learn to play, what they mean (or at least what they should mean) is that you need to accept DayZ. That entails understanding that playability is never an acceptable reason to change something.

You've got not gun and so you can't kill any zombies and bandits kill you? Nobody cares, that's DayZ life. The zombies have a large agro radius and you can't get past them? To bad, enjoy your zombos bro. None of these are legitimate reasons to change anything. In COD or BF3 or WoW they might be, but not DayZ.

[/quote']

See this line of thought inherently doesn't make sense to me. No offense to you personally, but it seems like there exists an archtype of people that just takes what authority doles out and accepts it as correct.

Rocket made the change in gameplay with the intent of recieving feedback; that's why there's stickied threads and why Rocket personally responds to many forum posts. When a chance occurs, why do you believe it's right to "just take it because it's intended" ? The newest bug of that happening is the issue of food. It was a clear bug that rocket said would be hotfixed, yet there's still a very vocal portion telling others to "L2P". Like really guys?

Why are complaints not a reason to change the gameplay? The point of a game, and yes guys this is a game not a life simulator, is to ensure the most fun for the largest group of people. There's no other way around it; if people aren't having fun then the game is a failure. I would agree that dumbing down games to feed the masses is not a step in the right direction, but then you have to see where you draw the line.

This "darkest night" thing for example, has a really large majority of people voicing dissent against it. There are a select few who relish in this playing completely blind scenario, but really what's the fun in that? If you wanted to be hardcore you would spawn with 2K blood, broken legs, in the middle of 10 zombies but how much fun would that ever be? In a game there always needs to exist a balance between realism and fun.

For the adapting argument, sure we could all crawl everywhere we go, taking 10x as long to go anywhere and it'd be more "real", but how much fun is it really? The vast majority of people I would believe wouldn't want the world's best walking simulator to devolve into the world's best crawling simulator.