Tired of KoS? Do something about it!

[plrsniper 87]

Tired of KoS? Do something about it!

Lately there have been many threads and lots of discussion on KoS. It's not getting anywhere, both sides in the argument claim they are right and both sides make up stuff that isn't necessarily true about the other just to "win the argument".

The arguments generally boil down to this for the respective sides:

Bandits, KoS kiddies and PvP crowd

• The other side doesn't know how to PvP.
  
• It's part of the game, deal with it.
  
• Crying about it isn't going to stop it from happening.
  
• Go play another game if you don't like it.
  

Friendlies, Heroes, Medics, PvE/PvZ crowd

• The other side doesn't know how to PvP.
  
• They are ruining the game.
  
• Go north if you want PvP.
  
• Go play CoD/BF3, this is DayZ.
  

I am not taking sides here in this thread. That's the core arguments about KoS from each side.

I consider myself to be a Bandit/KoS "kiddie" and PvP person and i have tried to remedy the situation in the past. As much as i enjoy the cries and outrage from those i kill i also consider myself reasonable. I want them to succeed, learn from their mistakes and become better players as much as anyone else.

I just don't like the friendly approach. I don't want to cuddle someone and carry them on my back hoping they learn from what i tell them.

I want them to learn from experience as that (IMHO) is worth more than a thousand words.

Now, to the bread and butter of this post/thread.

Survivor: "I don't like KoS and i want it to go away!"

Fair enough... What have you done about it so far?

I haven't seen much done about it really aside from a couple of rage induced posts on these forums. I feel posting about your loss is entirely the wrong way to go as Bandits and KoS players alike (me included) will feed on your complaints, rage and tears. It has the opposite effect because the killers get recognition and a sense of achievement from your posts.

I am not saying this is always the case, some may change their minds based on your complaints and think in other ways, doing less KoS as a result. But in total your postings will have the opposite effect.

The one thing i haven't seen too much of is ACTION. Words is not the same thing as action mind you...

What can i do to reduce KoS???

There are a number of approaches you can take and depending on how YOU want to play not all of these will be applicable to you. But at least one or two should be!

What follows is an index of some possible actions you can take, after that i will go in depth on what each item on the list entails.

1. Shoot them yourself. (PvP)
   
2. Ask someone else to shoot them. (Get an assasin for the "cause")
   
3. Join a group of players to kill them. (PvP with others)
   
4. Become a warmonger. (Entice others to go to war against the offenders for the "cause")
   
5. Fund a war. (Give out weapons, ammo and resources for others to fight a war)
   
6. Become a warlord. (PvP with a group of players against the offenders but as a leader of a bigger group)
   
7. Ignore it. (Do nothing at all, avoid it)
   

1. Shoot them yourself. (PvP)

This is (IMHO) the least likely option for many reasons but if you want to retaliate on your own terms i will not deny you that and will encourage you to do so as you will learn a whole lot from the experience.

The reason you are less likely to succeed is because it's you against many and you will have a hard time keeping up with them all in terms of weaponry and time.

You will become the lone warrior, a guerrilla if you'd like. You will hit them when they least expect it and do as much damage to them as you possibly can.

Your biggest obstacle will be that they too are like a guerrilla force. They will move (contrary to popular belief) and will blend in to the environment and you can't at a glance differentiate them from other players.

Beyond that, you killing them once will have little impact since they will come back and gear back up rather quickly. They will learn from their mistakes and will have their spirits lifted as they are back in the game.

They will enjoy you killing them unless you manage to kill them over and over again.

Now, i am not saying it's impossible and there are many things you can do to increase the odds in your favor, should you choose to take this path.

• Get a good sniper rifle. (AS50 is preferred above all others due to it's low noise level, high accuracy and superior stopping power but any less will still do fine)
  
• Find a ghillie suit. (Easier said than done but without one you will be killed easily)
  
• Announce your intentions! (WHAT?!? No really, if they feel insecure you have landed the first blow, they will be paranoid all the time and will be scared to move about as freely as they did before)
  
• Pay attention to the side chat (should it exist) and gather intel on the bastards. (If someone suffers KoS, ask him for details. Get into a skype convo with the victim if you can. The less they know of what you know, the better!)
  
• Once geared up, stay near the coast but let NO ONE know where you are. (Be within walking distance of Cherno/Elektro at all times. The longer it takes you to get to them, the less likely you are to find them.)
  
• CAMP ALOT! (Your best bet is to be invisible and lie in wait for them to move about. Find the best vantage points into the twin cities and wait for them to make a move then strike)
  
• Once you engage and possibly kill one of them, don't stick around! (The last thing you want to do is let them flank you and kill you.)
  

The one thing no list can help you with though is EXPERIENCE. You will never become good at PvP if you don't actively engage in it.

If you don't have a sniper rifle and ghillie yet you are better off fighting in close quarters for a while to learn the ropes.

Learn to think like them, learn to play on equal terms with them and your sniping career will be much more rewarding.

When you get good at it, the KoS crowd will start to fear you. As a result, their activity will diminish as they now take more precautions before shooting an unarmed player.

All of this of course depends entirely on what YOU want to do. Most "anti KoS" players are against PvP alltogether and as a result will not chose this path in the first place.

2. Ask someone else to shoot them. (Get an assasin for the "cause")

This is very similar to the first option except you are not the lone warrior. Someone else is!

You really don't have to do much at all, if you know something about the offenders then tell the server about it.

1-1-G 1 (Good Guy): KoS in Cherno! They killed me/someone in the fire station.

1-1-G 1 (Good Guy): He/They have AK-74 and a Lee Enfield.

1-1-G 1 (Good Guy): Last i saw/heard them was on top of the clock tower!

Or...

1-1-G 1 (I am the victim): I just got KoS in Elektro Church. I had nothing on me.

1-1-G 1 (I am the victim): They shot me with a sniper rifle from somewhere. Possibly north.

At this point you have a number of options...

• Go solo PvP to retaliate. (Section one in the "what to do list")
  
• Offer assistance to others wanting to kill them. (Join them on skype and help them with intel, scouting and/or equipment) (3, 4 and 5 on the "todo list")
  
• Entice others to join the "cause". (Become a warmonger, item 4 on the "todo list")
  
• Do nothing more, just tell the details and move on.
  

The last thing you want to do here is engage in a long conversation with them about how wrong it is to KoS. Just tell the details and ask for assistance or retaliation from others.

Be mature about it and others will take you seriously. (assuming they trust your intel)

3. Join a group of players to kill them. (PvP with others)

This is obviously based on trust for all involved. Normally you should seek to team up with other "less armed" players and form a counter squad.

You will need good communication (Skype, Teamspeak etc) with the others in the group or you are bound to fail before you start.

Unlike the solo PvP option, you will focus on sheer force. Grab whatever weapons you can come by and rely on intel from others.

Strike the bastards down and split up or stay together.

Some things you can do as a group:

• Have a decoy to lure attention away from the rest of the group. (Make noise to lure the bastards in)
  
• Use a target dummy that will be fired upon. (The longer he survives the better, he needs to know how to dodge bullets! The rest of the group will flank or return fire)
  
• Use scouts that survey the area and provide intel as well as possible cover fire. (should he have a sniper rifle etc)
  
• Cover larger areas in shorter timeframes as well as lock down certain regions.
  

Some things to consider:

• Bad communications are a recipe for distaster. ("Where are you?" ... "I don't know." ... "Is that you?" ... "I am near a house" ... "But this guy is in a house" ... "Where?" ... "I don't know, i am going to shoot him!" ... "Wait, i am in a house now" ... "What weapon did you have?" ... "Uhh, a rifle..." ... "This guy has an AK, i am shooting now" ... *bang bang* ... "Aaaah, someone is shooting me from the school" ... "I am in the school!" ... "I am shooting back" ... "No, that's me!" ... "But he is shooting me?!?" ... "Ok?" ... "Oh well, i am dead anyways.")
  
• Good communications can have great results. ("I am on the school roof" ... "Ok, i am at the hospital" ... ... "I see zombies running to the east" ... "Ok, i will get on the hospital roof" ... "The zombies are running to the store" ... "I am on the hospital roof now, looking at the store entrance" ... "I see a guy in the store, he has a bandit skin" ... "Good, what weapon does he have?" ... "I can't tell, he is running around too much" ... "Ok, keep an eye on him." ... "He exited through the back of the store" ... "I see more zombies running to the west. They are moving towards the school." ... "Ok, the bandit is running into the school now too!" ... "I see another player, he is unarmed in survivor clothes and going into the school!" ... *RATATATA* ... "Shots from the school, sounded like an AK74" ... "Ok, keep watch!" ... "I see the bandit, he is moving to the second floor. The other guy is dead!" ... "Shoot the bandit if you can" ... "Taking the shot." ... *BAM* ... "He is dead! I'll cover you while you take his stuff. Don't forget to bury the bastard!")
  
• Always keep track of each other, the moment you don't know where the others are situations can arise where you have to do needless talking to confirm each others locations. Always inform the rest of the group what you are doing and where you are going and do it for every re-positioning you do.
  
• Share everything! Got spare food? Divide it among the group induvidials. Having to go back to another player to feed him is only going to increase the chance of you being spotted and will take extra needless time.
  
• Have clear roles, "I am the sniper", "I am the looter", "We are the assault team", "I am the coordinator", "I don't know this game that well", "I am hungry", "I am the intelligence officer", "I am the driver".
  
• Have clear goals... "We are going to Cherno to look for KoS bastards." ... "When we get there we will take up positions on the roofs while the looters gather food and medical supplies." ... "We will all meet up in the farm north of Cherno if we need to retreat or we are moving out".
  

Nobody is saying playing as a group is easy in PvP. You learn through experience and your targets are likely to have more experience than you.

Your ultimate goal is to make life HELL for them. The more they have to worry about you, the less time they will spend shooting unarmed players.

Just like with solo PvP, this isn't for everyone. There are other options!

4. Become a warmonger. (Entice others to go to war against the offenders for the "cause")

Another one of those "easy approaches" as you don't have to do anything really.

Just encourage others to fight the fight for you while you go about doing your own thing.

I can't really say much else about it. I have done it myself, AGAINST MYSELF.

So here's a little story about what happened:

Me and my friend where hanging around in Elektro (camping) shooting everything that moved. (Well, not the zombies... They are our allies)

After a while (killing numerous players, armed or not) the number of players coming to Elektro started to diminish.

Part because when they respawn they tend to spawn farther away, statistically speaking it's bound to happen. And part because they knew we where there because most victims cried on side chat about it...

We (as per usual) where cocky and told people to stay away from "ElektroX0T" if they wanted to live.

But as time went on we got increasingly bored so we started mocking the server. Telling them they where to darn scared to come fight us. A bunch of carebears who do nothing but farm loot.

In response we got flack for camping Elektro and being to afraid to go north. Funny they should mention that as we had prior been north and killed every player we came across up there. It's how i got my AS50, Coyote backpack, GPS and all the other things to begin with.

We had also raided quite a few camps up north (destroying them in the process) and we had shot a few helicopters to bits (they where parked on rooftops) and in summarum, we hardly lifted an eyebrow while doing so.

In essence, the players KNEW we where not afraid to go north and their cries kept us entertained for a while.

But that only goes so far, so i told them ALL to come get my gear. We would not retaliate for killing us. (A lie of course :) )

"I have an AS50, a DMR, A Coyote backpack, GPS, NVGs and all the other stuff you want right here"

"Bring the entire server against us!"

And so they did after a while... Well, maybe not the entire server but at least 10 people accepted my challenge.

They set up on the sniper hill north of Elektro with ghillie suits and excellent cover and made a coordinated attack on us killing my friend with one well placed headshot and hitting me in the leg at the same time.

My friend was on the school roof and i was on the fire station roof, we have used these positions for a long time and we knew it was a bad idea.

The "enemy" knew our locations through intel. So they knew who to shoot and where.

In effect, that was the most fun i have had in a LOOOONG time in DayZ. It warmed my heart to see the server come together for once to deal with us head on.

And i respawned twice in Kamenka, committing suicide both times. Then i spawn near Elektro, make my way into the city and pick up a double barrel shotgun in the school as another guy comes in from the back. I pop one of my 2 only slugs in his face, he manages to return fire for a brief moment and i move up the stairs.

I hear flies and see his death in the chat feed.

I proceed in taking his M4 assault rifle and gear, run out east to flank the sniper hill.

For the first time in a LOOOOOONG time i actually get an adrenaline rush... Before i am gunned down by an AK wielder that i hadn't spotted on my way to the sniper hill.

So yes, being the warmonger can be surprisingly effective!

And it should be right up you complainers alley!

5. Fund a war. (Give out weapons, ammo and resources for others to fight a war)

If you are a lone wolf who does nothing but farm gear every day to store it in tents scattered around the map then this option is perfect for you!

What are you going to do with all that gear anyways? It's just sitting in tents waiting for some bandit to come and collect and destroy the rest anyways.

Gather weapons, gear and vehicles that you give to others who are fighting the war on KoS for you. Strength in numbers is one thing, being well supplied is a whole other.

If you provide your services to the men and women on the ground so they can focus on killing bandits then you are a vital asset to the "cause".

If there is one thing a KoS player hates it's snipers. So give out sniper rifles to the good guys and watch the KoS mentality shatter as they will feel they are being watched at all times by the counter KoS, well equipped players everywhere.

6. Become a warlord. (PvP with a group of players against the offenders but as a leader of a bigger group)

Dream on...

...

...

Seriously though, if you manage to get the server under your control against KoS i am going to join that server right away just for the challenge.

A would love for you to succeed and maybe one day someone will.

And i would love to be the target on a server like this. Hunted by everyone everywhere.

7. Ignore it. (Do nothing at all, avoid it)

By far the laziest approach and the least effective...

But for you it may work best, who knows?

What you need to do is stay away from all possible player contact.

Play on empty servers, stay far into the wilderness.

Leave no trace of your existence and keep your mouth shut.

If you see another player press ESC -> ALT+F4 and go on another server for the day.

Rage quit as you realize you are not having any fun at all. It was bound to happen later anyways as DayZ is not for you.

----------------------------------

Thanks for reading!

[Imafighter 236]

The only way to deal with it is to KoS yourself?

Here is a grand idea: Don't shoot them, and maybe they won't shoot you.

And for the last thing, you are simply complaining about folks who do not shoot players. Why alt+F4 when you could follow them to their camp, steal their supplies, then destroy it? Steal their vehicles? Creep them out? Make their life ruined?

[plrsniper 87]

The only way to deal with it is to KoS yourself?

Here is a grand idea: Don't shoot them, and maybe they won't shoot you.

And for the last thing, you are simply complaining about folks who do not shoot players. Why alt+F4 when you could follow them to their camp, steal their supplies, then destroy it? Steal their vehicles? Creep them out? Make their life ruined?

So you are the "Do nothing about it" type and will bitch and moan on the forums then?

EDIT: mind you, I am not telling you to KoS. I am telling you to go after those that do KoS.

It's very different.

Edited February 27, 2013 by X0TCadde

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

UTTERLY disagree with this - the only way to solve the KoS problem is to KoS and therefore creating more KoS players? Doesn't make much sense to me.

I understand what you're trying to say, but you seem to think that most people are KoSing for shits and giggles, whereas in many cases people are simply shooting first because they're tired of everyone they meet shooting them, making it a vicious circle. The only way KoS from non-bandit players can really be addressed is through communication and selectively giving the benefit of the doubt. Sure, you'll get shot sometimes, but the more people that are willing to consider than maybe not everyone out there is hell-bent on shooting them, the better the situation gets.

[DazTroyer 227]

I've gone from "omg I killed my first player, i feel so guilty" to out and out bandit. I don't kill new spawns on Chernarus but generally KoS anywhere north and personally think it adds to he danger in DayZ. It's not right or wrong it's just how I roll in this sandbox. I personally love being a bambi and running the gauntlet from other bandits. If someone wrote a script that magically stopped KoS the player base would drop loads, overnight. DayZ without bandits wouldn't be worth playing on either side imo.

[svisketyggeren 662]

....KoS kiddies....

I stopped reading around there...if ur gonna make a attempt at a objective discussion I suggest u dont use derogatory remarks that reveals that ur are infact biased.

U also fail to list all the relevant arguments

Edited February 27, 2013 by svisketyggeren

[rustledmyjimmies 361]

The only way to deal with it is to KoS yourself?

Here is a grand idea: Don't shoot them, and maybe they won't shoot you.

And for the last thing, you are simply complaining about folks who do not shoot players. Why alt+F4 when you could follow them to their camp, steal their supplies, then destroy it? Steal their vehicles? Creep them out? Make their life ruined?

Ruin their life? Exactly why everyone who KoS's is an arsehole, as well as ruining the arma community with teamkills they persist to kill everybody they see in dayz because they think the game is all about how many kills you can rack up.

Edited February 27, 2013 by rustledmyjimmies

[plrsniper 87]

I stopped reading around there...if ur gonna make a attempt at a objective discussion I suggest u dont use derogatory remarks that reveals that ur are infact biased.

U also fail to list all the relevant arguments

Then you stopped reading before you realized if i had any bias in my post it's surely not going to be with the KoS haters.

I KoS and had you kept on reading you wouldn't have made such an ill informed and non constructive post.

What arguments haven't i listed that are relevant? I can always update the list you know.

[Toft 61]

How exactly is KoS them yourself or hiring some other person to KoS the KoS'ers gonna reduce KoS ?... :)

Because per definition you are just adding to the KoS ^^

Edited February 27, 2013 by Toft

[liquidmind 320]

I personally think that the main issue in the debate is a matter of definitions.

KoS/bandit/pvp are used very often synonymously, on other occasions to differentiate.

In my opinion:

PVP: Every hostile interaction between two players.

Bandit: the concept of not looting your gear, but stealing it and taking it from people you shot.

KoS: reducing the risk of getting betrayed, by trusting no one and shooting everyone you encounter.

I would add "playerkiller" to that list, meaning: people who see the goal of their game in killing other players.

Considering that:

PVP is an essential part of dayZ. Bandits are an essential part of DayZ.

BUT:

KoS, even if reducing the risk of getting killed yourself, inhibits the chance of other player interactions, robbing yourself of a vital part of the experience dayZ might offer. It's everyone's right to shoot on sight, but knowing what the game can offer, I just do not recommend it.

I also recommend to consider, not engaging someone over stalking him just to kill him, if the own survival is the most important issue.

Playerkiller on the other hand, don't really add to the gameplay, as they don't wnat to take any items, don't follow any goal, except killing as many player as possible. Considering that these people get their joy out of the conflict with another player, I think dayZ is not the best optimized game to do so. It takes a long time to gear up and find other players. There are other games where a lot more action in a shorter time is possible. For those getting targeted, there is no option provided, that would let them keep their life.

A bandit robbing you, might give you the option to surrender your gear or die. A playerkiller will only shoot to kill, nothing else.

Considering that playerkiller-behavior is a less than efficient way for the shooter, as well as the most frustrating way to die for the victim, there is no actual benefit to the overall gameplay by those players. There is enough death without them. For the overall benefit of the game, those are the players I'd suggest to look for another game to. Not because I think their style of gaming is worth less. Not because I think they are idiots. Just becasue I think their concept of playing and the concept of dayz as a game, don't match as they would match with other games.

The only reason, someone would prefer dayZ to kill other people over any other game is, that he wants the other player to be frustrated, angry and hopefully show that on side-channel. Having to piss off other people to feel good about yourself, isn't a human property I can admire tough.

Edit: I forgot to mention that there are also player who enjoy messing with other players, but are always on the same servers, taking any revenge that comes to them, providing an excellent "Server-Asshole" for everyone to hate and even ally against.

Those people, even if annoying at times, add to the gameplay.

People who go on random servers to gear up just killing everyone they see, but when people start to hunt them, they just switch to a server where they are unknown, they are just poor trolls. Especially those who beg for guns on spawning, to turn against everyone as soon as they got what they wanted.

Here is a grand idea: Don't shoot them, and maybe they won't shoot you.

Had my time when I didn't care much about dying. I used to greet players with "I wont shoot you, don't care what you do, but I'd prefer if you wouldn't kill me either" Interesting enough, I haven't been killed during that time very often. If so, usually by someone I didn't see or a russian who just didn't give a shit... Don't know why, but when there is russian talk on a server, there is a lot more pvp going on...

Edited February 27, 2013 by liquidmind

[plrsniper 87]

How exactly is KoS them yourself or hiring some other person to KoS the KoS'ers gonna reduce KoS ?... :)

Because per definition you are just adding to the KoS ^^

You don't know what KoS stands for do you?

Kill on Sight - What players do whenever they see someone else.

I am not encouraging KoS. I am encouraging people to hunt those that do KoS and leave everyone else alone.

That is not KoS, that is killing a subset of players that are doing something you don't like.

Adding to that, i am not talking about the occasional KoS incident that happens because no other options are available to the agressor. You know, when they meet suddenly in a narrow doorway and they by reaction kill the other player because they have no time to react differently.

I am talking about those that go out of their way to kill other players on sight no matter what.

Which this other person touches on... Read the next quote.

I personally think that the main issue in the debate is a matter of definitions.

KoS/bandit/pvp are used very often synonymously, on other occasions to differentiate.

In my opinion:

PVP: Every hostile interaction between two players.

Bandit: the concept of not looting your gear, but stealing it and taking it from people you shot.

KoS: reducing the risk of getting betrayed, by trusting no one and shooting everyone you encounter.

I would add "playerkiller" to that list, meaning: people who see the goal of their game in killing other players.

Considering that:

PVP is an essential part of dayZ. Bandits are an essential part of DayZ.

BUT:

KoS, even if reducing the risk of getting killed yourself, inhibits the chance of other player interactions, robbing yourself of a vital part of the experience dayZ might offer. It's everyone's right to shoot on sight, but knowing what the game can offer, I just do not recommend it.

I also recommend to consider, not engaging someone over stalking him just to kill him, if the own survival is the most important issue.

Playerkiller on the other hand, don't really add to the gameplay, as they don't wnat to take any items, don't follow any goal, except killing as many player as possible. Considering that these people get their joy out of the conflict with another player, I think dayZ is not the best optimized game to do so. It takes a long time to gear up and find other players. There are other games where a lot more action in a shorter time is possible. For those getting targeted, there is no option provided, that would let them keep their life.

A bandit robbing you, might give you the option to surrender your gear or die. A playerkiller will only shoot to kill, nothing else.

Considering that playerkiller-behavior is a less than efficient way for the shooter, as well as the most frustrating way to die for the victim, there is no actual benefit to the overall gameplay by those players. There is enough death without them. For the overall benefit of the game, those are the players I'd suggest to look for another game to. Not because I think their style of gaming is worth less. Not because I think they are idiots. Just becasue I think their concept of playing and the concept of dayz as a game, don't match as they would match with other games.

The only reason, someone would prefer dayZ to kill other people over any other game is, that he wants the other player to be frustrated, angry and hopefully show that on side-channel. Having to piss off other people to feel good about yourself, isn't a human property I can admire tough.

I wholeheartedly agree with your definitions. I am a player killer, my goal is to kill players on sight and i am actively hunting them no matter where they are or what they are doing.

KoS is a narrow term as you can kill players on sight if you happen to come across them but try to avoid it and you can KoS with intent.

That said, a bandit doesn't necessarily have to let another player live. A bandit may be looking for a fast way to gear up and if he has a makarov and is alone he has no real leverage. He will sneak up on another player and kill him and take his gear.

What makes a bandit not be a bandit anymore is when he kills another player but doesn't even try to loot the corpse.

Now, here is where i disagree.

A playerkiller doesn't necessarily degrade from gameplay. It just adds more risk to moving about, especially in the big cities. If you feel DayZ is too easy in the Zombie department you may just welcome the fact that there are player killers out there giving you an added layer of risk to your reward. Because as you say, DayZ would not be fun without PvP. Especially if you think the zombies are a joke and not a threat to you at all.

And a playerkiller is obviously not going to get any love from other players. He is the definition of a really bad guy and as such will add an element to the game that allows for some cosplay.

You have the murderer and you have the CSI and Police to hunt him down. It's good vs evil and it's up to every player to participate in this scenario. (or not)

Without it DayZ would be at a loss as it would detract from the possible number of professions one can have.

Embrace it, do something about it and learn that DayZ isn't just robbers, farming and helping newbs.

It's a war between rivaling factions and playerkillers are a faction of their own.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

You see, what you're trying to do here is morph DayZ into a game that suits your preferred style of play. You're getting bored randomly killing players who won't/can't retaliate in-game, so you're trying to find ways of giving yourself a challenge by encouraging players you've killed to send other, better-armed players after you. It's a short-term solution and it simply won't work, because in-game you're viewed as a nuisance rather than someone who adds flavour to the game world, and the best solution to stop that nuisance is to starve it of interaction until it gets bored and goes elsewhere.

To be honest, I'm not convinced DayZ is a game that's meant for the way you're playing it. Yes, it can be done that way, but ultimately the player base isn't as interested in PvP as you are, and you're finding that out the hard way.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

LOL, yea KoS em first, that'll fix the KoS issue right away..

hahahah

[rn_max 202]

If buffoons want to stumble around ringing the dinner bell, I'll gladly observe, follow, profit, laugh and move on unnoticed. Far more challenging and entertaining for far longer than fleeting moments gunning down sitting ducks in delusions of achievement.

Dead players aren't particularly useful either ... they don't decoy infected, risk their necks scavenging loot and pile it up for the taking, repair vehicles for you or any of that other great stuff.

Why waste a game so full of opportunity on simpleton deathmatch? The world is ruled by manipulators, not killers, but hey ... as long as that lesson isn't learned, eh? Art imitates life.

[Saethkept 134]

Honestly, gamers will do as they please - for the same reasons; ditto motivations.

Adversely - to RN_Max above me, I enjoy the counter KoS approach, i.e. sniping the snipers and providing anonymous cover to strangers (not without difficulties). When I declare friendly, that is exactly what I am for as long as I am on the server, barring betrayals if they happen. Just me perhaps, but I find genuinely working together with other players - without hidden agendas - to be one of the most rewarding aspects of DayZ. I have saved other players a number of times, and have had them really shocked that someone would go out of there way to aid them without expectations in return.

That is the way to combat KoS from the player's side of DayZ - to take a chance and do something great for a stranger. Of course you should never cease to treat said stranger as a potential Benedict Arnold, but that's the way of the apocalypse.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

XOTCadde,

I understand what you are trying to do, but I think you are really just wasting your time. I've PvP'd in a lot of sandbox games that had PvP elements, and it was always the same story of "I don't want to PvP so I should not be forced to PvP", even if they entered into a PvP zone. The only difference between this game and the other games I've played is that this game is 24/7 open PvP. So PvP can happen anywhere at anytime. And when it does happen they get so bent out of shape about it that they cannot think clearly on the subject of why they got shot, how they got shot, what they can do to avoid it next time. It's only "I got killed by another player and that shouldn't be allowed to happen" mindset.

The options you listed are really the only options they have available short of removing any part of the PvP in this game. But because it has PvP, not necessarily KoS, they will never accept it and will never attempt it. The only thing we can do is to keep countering their arguments and hope the developers do not take away any form of PvP in this game.

I have watched games get their PvP nerfed into oblivion because of people who are so against it that they will do anything necessary to get it changed. I don't want to see that happen in DayZ, either the mod or the future standalone. At that point this game is no longer worth playing.

Like you I am a playerkiller. Though I don't shoot everyone I see, I play the game for the PvP. There are so many different situations to find yourself in that if at any point I was deemed "safe" from anything but zombies then it would ruin the experience that I set about to find. But to many all I am is a griefer because what I do in their eyes is try to ruin their game. It doesn't matter that they entered this game knowing all the risks that come with it.

Good luck, but I think you'll find you'll have more success getting a pig to fly.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Honestly, gamers will do as they please - for the same reasons; ditto motivations.

Adversely - to RN_Max above me, I enjoy the counter KoS approach, i.e. sniping the snipers and providing anonymous cover to strangers (not without difficulties). When I declare friendly, that is exactly what I am for as long as I am on the server, barring betrayals if they happen. Just me perhaps, but I find genuinely working together with other players - without hidden agendas - to be one of the most rewarding aspects of DayZ. I have saved other players a number of times, and have had them really shocked that someone would go out of there way to aid them without expectations in return.

That is the way to combat KoS from the player's side of DayZ - to take a chance and do something great for a stranger. Of course you should never cease to treat said stranger as a potential Benedict Arnold, but that's the way of the apocalypse.

Good post, and I applaud you for it. You found a role that you want to play and like to play. Just as I have found a role that I want to play and like to play. No way is better than the other except to the player that plays it.

Fact is I would love it if you were trying to counter-snipe me. I want the competition, the excitement that someone may get me.

I don't play this game just to shoot players. I play it because the PvP in this game is so open, so random, so unforeseen, that you just don't know what to expect. I have the possibility to get into a fight with a makarov against a guy with a M4, but still have the chance to survive and escape or kill. Doesn't mean I will, but there is the chance, depending on my decisions and my execution.

[urspider2018@gmail.com 109]

These are all pretty valid suggestions for dealing with bandits, but they aren't very good for dealing with the average survivor Joe who shoots on sight because he's tired of it happening to him all the time.

I used to KoS because I had gotten tired with being betrayed/shot all the time, but then I realized that it was the gearing up process that was the most fun for me, and went back to my old ways, since each death gives me a new opportunity to gear up.

[Imafighter 236]

I stopped reading around there...if ur gonna make a attempt at a objective discussion I suggest u dont use derogatory remarks that reveals that ur are infact biased.

U also fail to list all the relevant arguments

I could not understand that at all, due to lack of grammar.

[mazeash@mail.com 73]

Somehow I feel the OP has really wasted their time writing all that. This game has no definition, it's not meant to conform to a certain genre, PVP happens because some players want to shoot others, for whatever reasons, there are people who DON'T shoot too of course. I didn't read all that because it wont change the game and how people play, the game has evolved this way naturally and may evolve differently in the future, that's kind of the whole point of DayZ, as Rocket puts it, 'it is our story'.

And also, does killing on site really make someone a 'kiddie'. Or am I not up on recent internet speak? Is 'kiddie' the new noob? Or are you actually implying that people who KoS are kids? Cause that's ridiculous in so many ways lol.

[CaptGentry 4]

Well, I think that is you just shoot anyone you see you'll be missing out on alot of what's fun about this game.

[DMC14 46]

if i see someone first i try to talk to them on direct (i.e. hey you there with the whatever gun or running into the so and so building are you freindly if you dont talk back i'll shoot, might repeat the last bit once or twice but quickly), but if they dont talk i'll shoot cause there obviously gonna shoot me. sometimes they turn and shoot while im talking.

happened yesterday but i only had axe. and the guy starts crying at me cause i took a swing at him with axe. couldnt beleive it im like you there comming into my building talk to me or you will be treated as hostile said it three times. and he was still surprised (yeah bullshit i said if you come up those stairs with out chatting you will be treated as hostile and he stilll came up.) he takes a couple of shots at me with pistol and runs off. ( he came back with more blokes and got me though).

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Well, I think that is you just shoot anyone you see you'll be missing out on alot of what's fun about this game.

Fun is subjective. Some people find repairing cars fun while others find it boring. Same with shooting people versus trying to befriend them.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

Fun is subjective. Some people find repairing cars fun while others find it boring. Same with shooting people versus trying to befriend them.

I think what confuses a lot of people (including myself to a small extent) is why people who are clearly only interested in the 'killing other players' aspect play DayZ rather than something more designed to cater to their interests/wants/needs like Wasteland or even just vanilla ARMA II. I'm not suggesting what they're doing is 'wrong' or anything like that, I just don't understand why they do it. When I get an urge to take advantage of ARMA's unique and tense combat mechanics, I fire up Wasteland and start hunting people, and it suits me perfectly. I still play Bandit on DayZ sometimes, and I still play survivor sometimes, but if I want pure PvP, I acknowledge that DayZ is not designed with that in mind, and therefore find something that better meets my needs.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

I think what confuses a lot of people (including myself to a small extent) is why people who are clearly only interested in the 'killing other players' aspect play DayZ rather than something more designed to cater to their interests/wants/needs like Wasteland or even just vanilla ARMA II. I'm not suggesting what they're doing is 'wrong' or anything like that, I just don't understand why they do it. When I get an urge to take advantage of ARMA's unique and tense combat mechanics, I fire up Wasteland and start hunting people, and it suits me perfectly. I still play Bandit on DayZ sometimes, and I still play survivor sometimes, but if I want pure PvP, I acknowledge that DayZ is not designed with that in mind, and therefore find something that better meets my needs.

I can't speak for other people, but I can state why I enjoy it.

For me it is the unpredictability of the situations you find yourself in. I search for people, but I don't shoot everyone I see, even if I may want to. For me it is the surviving and execution. Can I safely engage someone and survive? Will my attack expose me to someone else I know is running around? Will I be shot in my back by an unknown player? All these things add excitement to my game. I don't sit on top of spawn points, but I also am moving around and looking. Even during these movements I run across players and have tense moments. I want these moments because the unknown is exciting. I may not be geared up yet. I may only have an enfield. What are my options then? Am I close, or should I try and get range for that gun? Do I have an AKM? I better get within 200m, preferably 100m. Can I do so safely? How can I play the cat and mouse game with the zombies that may be around without agro'ing them, so I don't give away my position?

I like to loot, I like to fix vehicles and choppers. It is the fear of the unknown that keeps me playing. I want the confrontations because that is where the game gets exciting. Can I outplay the other player? Make the choices that keep me alive, by either escaping, or engaging and taking the enemy down?

Wastelands my be without zombies, but from what I hear, everyone has a gun, and fairly well setup kits (from what I hear). It's missing the variable of the situations. I could be cornered in a factory with only a hatchet and outnumbered. I could be rolling with an sniper gun and get popped by a guy with a makorov. I'm not going to get those unique situations in wasteland. Maybe the guy I'm stalking gives me the slip and I lose him. Maybe my error in judgement agro a swarm of zombies and I trap myself in a house and I have to blast out of there. Wasteland doesn't have that dynamic to my knowledge.