Heartbeat still not what we need

[ward 8]

If I recall correctly, Rocket said bandit skins were an imperfect feature, and as such were being removed.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3693

But now, with 1.7.1, we're getting heartbeats. Isn't this the bandit skin, just in a different form? You're still getting a general sense of someone's "humanity" from glancing at them, just now we can wear whatever skins we want with it. Maybe this should be a feature, but humanity and the ways you lose/gain it need to be altered. This still doesn't fix the very arbitrary system that is humanity.

TL;DR: Heartbeat just bandit skins reincarnated, humanity still in need of fixing.

[Mitritch 4]

Who are "we"? Bandits, who prefer to kill new defenseless players just for the sake of killing?

For me, who plays alone, heartbeat addition is a good thing. Now I don't have again any doubts should I kill on sight, or it is better to negotiate peaceful solution using direct voice communication.

[Never 237]

Yep, didn't even need to test it, it was always just another poorly conceived pointless mechanic that only exists in an effort to make the forums slightly less full of crying and whinging.

Didn't work.

The problems isn't 'I can't tell bandits from survivors', the problem is NO player is totally one or the other. When all players operate in some ever changing moral grey area, any mechanic to show how 'evil' a certain player is is just bunk.

I know the mod isn't about balance, but this just gives a safety net players and makes a huge part of the psychology defunct. Why wonder if you can trust someone if a simple mouse-over answers that question?

[ward 8]

Who are "we"? Bandits' date=' who prefer to kill new defenseless players just for the sake of killing?

For me, who plays alone, heartbeat addition is a good thing. Now I don't have again any doubts should I kill on sight, or it is better to negotiate peaceful solution using direct voice communication.

[/quote']

Maybe this should be a feature' date=' but humanity and the ways you lose/gain it need to be altered.

[/quote']

[MrBloodworth 1]

Yes, if you can get close enough to put your cross hair on them and hear the heart beat, you already know the answer if they are hostile or not.

[Slyguy65 499]

eh your looking at it a little too negative

bandit skin INSTANTLY let you know from long distances at least now it requires slight investigation as to who is bad or good (unless you can mouse over someone from 500 meters away and tell) i haven't been able to test the distance of heartbeat so IDK but if it requires you to be pretty close than its fine

If however the above is true...then your right it is the same thing.

[Never 237]

Now I don't have again any doubts should I kill on sight' date='

[/quote']

See that sentence says entirely why this mechanic is broken/poorly executed/unneeded.

You SHOULD have to wonder, a massive part of the game is lost due to this.

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bandit skin INSTANTLY let you know from long distances at least now it requires slight investigation as to who is bad or good

Agreed, bandit skin was imperfect as well, I guess thats universally accepted by all now apart from the diehards.

Problem is, we need to stop referencing that bandit/survivor mechanic.

It didn't work as skins, it doesn't work as heartbeats. But most are comparing how heartbeats work to how skins worked. That is a flaw in the thinking, heartbeats shouldn't be considered a reworking of bandit skins, it would be considered alone on its own merits.

Like instead of thinking bandit skins > heartbeats > which is better?

We should look at it like:

attempt 1: Bandit skins > didn't work > binned.

attempt 2: Heartbeats > still in test, seems to have its own problems > tweak or bin.

Maybe instead of trying to replace an imperfect mechanic with another imperfect mechanic, we should bin the whole idea and see how it pans out without any 'bad man indicator'?

We are testing alpha after all, so far the two methods tested don't work, so maybe lets see if the game works without them. Let people act on their own instinct rather than being aided ingame, see how that works, if it feels it DOES need some way of pointing out psychopaths, we can try a new method.

TL;DR

Bandit mechanics don't seem to work however they are implemented. We haven't had DayZ with NO bandit skins/indicator. Let try it without? Maybe its not even needed?

Its possible that the 'bandit problem' isn't anything to do with the game, its to do with the players. Stop trying to fix the game when its not the problem. Players are getting killed by other players, because players love killing each other.

[ward 8]

That's the thing, we did have DayZ with no bandit skins/indicator. You probably noticed how people bitched on the forums. So Rocket caved and added the heartbeat.

[MrBloodworth 1]

The whole idea of "Bandits" is silly.

They are just players, like all of us. Some choose to kill, some do not. Also, you don't have to be a PK'er to get player kills, self defense gains it just as well.

The only thing "bandit" skins did, were stroke the E-peen. It was a bragging point, nothing more.

[Ingway 4]

Too me, there should be different play styles wich you choose at the beggining, you are prompted to choose between a Civilian and bandit, bandits get to kill without penalities but are easily distinguished from civilians, and civilians would be for peaceful players who like to cooperate, if you try to kill someone with this choise, you face death as well...

Maybe it's not that much realistic (not like heartbeat or bandits skins are actually realistic anyways... there's some pretty coldblooded people out there who wouldn't feel anything for killing someone), but to me it's an alternative.

[Never 237]

That's the thing' date=' we did have DayZ with no bandit skins/indicator. You probably noticed how people bitched on the forums. So Rocket caved and added the heartbeat.

[/quote']

And everybody was constantly thinking of the old skin mechanic while it wasn't there, thinking it needed replacing. It doesn't. They should have been playing the game without comparing it to then. Simply put, players thinking 'FFS, that wouldn't have happened if he had the bandit skin on so i could've shot him first' is them excusing themselves for fucking up. They are thinking about THEIR game, NOT the mod. Its not a useful input.

Bandit skins didn't work, Heartbeats is the same thing in a different suit, and seems to also be flawed. Did no skins really not work? If we remove all the bitching about it about and look at the raw gameplay, PVP has been rife ALL the time, with or without skins/heartbeats. So maybe its unneeded?

[Rinner23 5]

Survivors should have bright halos floating over their heads to light the way in the ungodly darkness of night.

Bandits should have the ability to consume said halo for blood restoration.

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

Too me' date=' there should be different play styles wich you choose at the beggining, you are prompted to choose between a Civilian and bandit, bandits get to kill without penalities but are easily distinguished from civilians, and civilians would be for peaceful players who like to cooperate, if you try to kill someone with this choise, you face death as well...

Maybe it's not that much realistic (not like heartbeat or bandits skins are actually realistic anyways... there's some pretty coldblooded people out there who wouldn't feel anything for killing someone), but to me it's an alternative.

[/quote']

Absolutely not.

I'd rather have no idea who is good or evil. In real life you wouldn't know if a stranger is a murderer or not by looking at them...

And you're basically saying "Make a class system". No thanks.

[Never 237]

The whole idea of "Bandits" is silly.

They are just players' date=' like all of us. Some choose to kill, some do not. Also, you don't have to be a PK'er to get player kills, self defense gains it just as well.

The only thing "bandit" skins did, were stroke the E-peen. It was a bragging point, nothing more.

[/quote']

Thats pretty much it.

None of us really play as a 100% bandit or a 100% friendly. Theres always grey areas. (Ok some players do, the Docs etc, but the majority..)

We may decide when we start that we want to be a nice guy, but there will come a time when you have no choice but to kill.

Same way we may decide to kill everything that moves, but we find our selves begging for morphine and end up trading peacefully..

..because we have to adapt, adapt to survive.

Having such extreme branding of evil OR good players is to clunky and simplistic way of looking at it.

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Survivors should have bright halos floating over their heads to light the way in the ungodly darkness of night.

Bandits should have the ability to consume said halo for blood restoration.

How about instead of heartbeats when you mouse-over a friendly you get icecream van jingles, and a mouse-over a bandit you hear Metallica?

Its really that stupid this whole mechanic.

[Izo Azlion 3]

Heartbeat is so bad - If I'm within 15m (the range required to hear it) and in Line of Sight of it, I'm either dead or shooting.

Remove it, our group are mostly bandits, it is annoying to be running around/hanging out and hearing that thudthudthud every moment. My heart already beats that fast because of the gameplay.

[BossFi 90]

So when someone asks "are you friendly?" and I say "yes" they will get close to me and then hear i have a rapid heartbeat, because I am a survivor who kills any threat to me (I'm not a bandit or murderer who kills players for fun or their loot) so they will end up shooting me in the back becuase they presume I am a bandit.

So my gameplay change has to be: kill everyone even if friendly so they don't shoot me after hearing my heartbeat!

[Ingway 4]

Too me' date=' there should be different play styles wich you choose at the beggining, you are prompted to choose between a Civilian and bandit, bandits get to kill without penalities but are easily distinguished from civilians, and civilians would be for peaceful players who like to cooperate, if you try to kill someone with this choise, you face death as well...

Maybe it's not that much realistic (not like heartbeat or bandits skins are actually realistic anyways... there's some pretty coldblooded people out there who wouldn't feel anything for killing someone), but to me it's an alternative.

[/quote']

Absolutely not.

I'd rather have no idea who is good or evil. In real life you wouldn't know if a stranger is a murderer or not by looking at them...

And you're basically saying "Make a class system". No thanks.

In a way that makes the game more realistic for some people, i like playing in a realistic style sometimes, but, there should be a way to activate such a thing, much like you can disable aim dots, third person and such, there should be an option like this for non hardcore players.

[geoffdeath 43]

who is this WE? don't you mean I.

I like it.

Seems to me only people who play the game as a Bandit will not like the heartbeat as they will find it harder to fool people into thinking there not going to shoot them.

[MrBloodworth 1]

I like it.

Seems to me only people who play the game as a Bandit will not like the heartbeat as they will find it harder to fool people into thinking there not going to shoot them.

It could be racing like a plumbers heart in heat. They may still not shoot you.

[Big Boss (DayZ) 23]

The heartbeat thing is aggravating when in a group, I'd rather select the bandit skin, or civi when I spawn, like how male and female is being done now.

I wouldn't mind there being a few skins to select: Civi, cop, military, bandit, female / whatever.

[thoxon 26]

Heartbeat should be proximity based, not just line of sight.

[Big Boss (DayZ) 23]

Heartbeat should be proximity based' date=' not just line of sight.

[/quote']

Yuck.....

[Virfortis 111]

The heartbeat didn't quite work, but it cannot be denied that there has to be a distinction between those experiencing DayZ, and those gaming DayZ. I have yet to run across a REAL bandit, and instead all I get are people that just kill for killing's sake, or are defenseless and end up dying to it. There's no taking of loot, or killing to survive, it's all "for teh lulz" now, and it's degrading to the genre.

The problem is that there's nothing to be done without arbitration. It's the same reason many FPS clans ban for spawnkilling or backflagging, because it's abusive and exploits the respawning mechanic. Many players never treat their character as if they only had one life, and recognize that because they can respawn, they are free from consequence.

Those people are the same kinds that spawncamp, turn gamma up on Amnesia, DC on contact, loot cycle, and other exploits to gain an artificial advantage. Either they are weeded out or DayZ will never reach its truest potential. If you cannot treat your character seriously, do not expect for this game to be anything more than the deathmatch everyone seems to hate.

If DayZ is so boring that the only thing you can do is camp Cherno for shits and giggles, hit the respawn button and try to do it all over again or go outside for a bit. I've said it before and I'll say it again: DayZ has, if nothing else, answered the time old question gamers have continually asked: Why aren't good games being made anymore? The answer: You abuse the good ones until they feel just like the bad ones.

[Never 237]

who is this WE? don't you mean I.

I like it.

Seems to me only people who play the game as a Bandit will not like the heartbeat as they will find it harder to fool people into thinking there not going to shoot them.

Thats just lazy thinking.

Lets make a situation up ok?

You are on your own, you meet one guy and he seems ok, no heartbeat is working with you.He says 'lets go meet my buddies', you get there, all is fine until you hear the heartbeat from one of them!

You panic, kill the 'bandit', but wait, they don't thank you for being a hero, they try and kill you for killing their friend, you have no choice to fight for your life, and have to kill them all to escape...

..After running to the woods to meet another survivor you hail them on chat 'thank god your here buddie i almo..BANG. They fucking kill you. Why? because you had a heartbeat.

They didnt know you had to kill though self defense, they only know you killed. For all you know thats why the bandit YOU killed had a heartbeat, they are innocent but were forced into selfdefense.

Seems to me you haven't thought though the full implications of this flawed mechanic, like most of the forum.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

who is this WE? don't you mean I.

I like it.

Seems to me only people who play the game as a Bandit will not like the heartbeat as they will find it harder to fool people into thinking there not going to shoot them.

Thats just lazy thinking.

Lets make a situation up ok?

You are on your own' date=' you meet one guy and he seems ok, no heartbeat is working with you.He says 'lets go meet my buddies', you get there, all is fine until you hear the heartbeat from one of them!

You panic, kill the 'bandit', but wait, they don't thank you for being a hero, they try and kill you for killing their friend, you have no choice to fight for your life, and have to kill them all to escape...

..After running to the woods to meet another survivor you hail them on chat 'thank god your here buddie i almo..BANG. They fucking kill you. Why? because you had a heartbeat.

They didnt know you had to kill though self defense, they only know you killed. For all you know thats why the bandit YOU killed had a heartbeat, they are innocent but were forced into selfdefense.

Seems to me you haven't thought though the full implications of this flawed mechanic, like most of the forum.

[/quote']

If you remove all references to the heartbeat then your post is still true