Waypoints only allowed with a GPS

[willey.erd@oundleschool.org.uk 506]

Perhaps I didn't word it quite correctly, but my intention was most definitely not to compare the use of morphine to the addition of a GPS waypoint, and I'm pretty sure I didn't make that direct comparison anywhere - I simply used morphine as a stronger example of accessibility over 'absolute' realism. The case of the GPS is at the absolute opposite end of the scale, and if you read my post again you'll notice that the comparison I DID make is to the Ammo counter in the top right corner. It's not game-changing, but it's convenient, and it's an acceptable break from reality that you make because it makes it easier to enjoy the stuff that actually matters.

Also, please note that in the opening paragraph that I stated that I'm fully in support of getting rid of waypoints until the player finds a GPS. Bearing in mind how hard they are to find, the odds of a player somehow stumbling across one before they've learned to read the map properly are more than low enough to mean that successful map use would be an essential skill if a player wants to survive.

Ugh, those two words 'sell out'. Why did you have to use them? Let's look at what a 'sell out' is, shall we? I think we could probably agree that it's someone who goes against their principles and what they initially set out to do in pursuit of money/fame/whatever. That's reasonable, yeah?

Now, without wishing to second-guess the man himself, shall we assume that Rocket likes to make games, and in particular survival games? And now let's assume (because it's pretty much any gamer's dream) that he would also like to design/make games he likes for a living, to have lots of people play and enjoy those games, and to make enough money to live comfortably while doing so. Not unreasonable assumptions, I think?

DayZ Standalone is probably going to tick those boxes. They could release it tomorrow and it would probably sell like hot cakes. As the hype machine builds up and people who haven't heard of it start seeing it on Steam pre-orders and so on, this game certainly isn't going to struggle to get people to buy it and play it. It's also a game that Rocket (certainly seems to be) is happy and proud of. So why is a little bit of accessibility in the name of broadening the potential audience 'selling out?' It's not, and it's part of why I HATE that term. I know you probably didn't mean it like that, and I don't want to drag this whole conversation even further off topic than it is already, but let's be sensible about our choices of words, because right now, I'm pretty sure Rocket is living the dream (whilst also wishing he'd had a less stressful dream :P).

Alright, maybe I went a bit strong there. TBH I wasn't really replying to your post so much as many other people's who seem to be blowing the whole thing way out of proportion, and I perhaps worded it as if I misunderstood what you were saying. Apologies.

You make a good argument, Sir, and I agree that maybe 'sell out' is a bit strong. It's just that I do not want to see Rocket go down the path of many developers these days in such a way that provides lazy players a crutch to let them do what they want 'painlessly'. Gloopsgf, you are a great example of one of the many people who is overreacting.

What I suggest as a compromise is a similar one to KingTubbs, but rather than appearing on your screen the waypoint could appear within the GPS' UI, much like an ordinary GPS. Also, I would give it a margin of error, as most GPS systems unfortunately have problems with. In a small area like Chernarus, this shouldn't be too much of a bugbear, and seeing as the GPS is rare enough already this would keep a nice balance (as it's not like every player is going to start with one).

One point I disagree with you on is that you define navigation as not something that 'actually matters'. If navigation is key to survival, and survival is perhaps the key aspect of the project, then surely it does 'actually matter'? I just don't see why everyone has so little regard for what would be an essential skill in a disaster event.

shadowleaper, that is an excellent idea, I was going for that with the 'make the map worse'. Perhaps you could get details from town information signs and such like.

[maui.arupa@gmail.com 16]

I'm for the removal of any type of HUD indication, including 3D waypoints. Even mag and ammo count. -the frenzy reloaders will go crazy-

For that matter I'd rather check manually (if mags have indicator holes) or even have to pull the rounds out to know for sure, but that's off topic)

Regarding GPS, I'd imagine two kinds, a car GPS (uncommon) that ofc only works for roads, and pedestrian GPS (rare) that would work a bit like the one we have actually, minus the 3D waypoint.

This, not to be more realistic, but in order to have a more authentic experience.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

Ah, now it's my turn to clarify my intent - I certainly didn't mean to imply that Navigation doesn't matter - like yourself, I consider it to be one of the key components of the game and part of what makes DayZ so enjoyable, and I'd be utterly against anything that tried to stop that being the case.

What I meant was that if I've hypothetically been lucky enough to find a GPS and I'm simply making my way from point A to point B in my own sweet time, it's simply less of a pain to glance at the green box than to have to hit a key to bring the GPS up so that I can follow the arrow that way. It just seems like adding a step for the sake of adding one - it's not like the outcome is any different. It's not something I care about that much that I'd be disappointed to lose it, it just seems like a sensible concession to make.

As for GPS accuracy, I know for a fact that for Search and Rescue purposes, HM Coastguard assume a position accquired by GPS to be accurate to within 200m - that's the absolute uppermost limit of inaccuracy they can reasonably expect (not counting outside factors such as poor calibration/damage etc). Most (emphasis on 'not all') handheld GPS units aren't far behind that now, to be honest - I'd be fairly surprised if a halfway-decent model was consistently found to be more than 400m out. It's one of those myths that's kind of stuck around - when handheld GPS units first hit the market, they indeed were very unreliable due to the new technology. However, technology has moved forward since then, and they're now pretty damned reliable, but for some reason the stigma hasn't quite been shaken.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Target Practice

[Talibambi 119]

Depending on how long this virus has been running rampant should determine if GPS works at all. The satellites would still be in space for sure.. but the ground stations would be out of commision, thus meaning no GPS for anyone.

[kitfoo@yahoo.com 13]

OP, so you're telling me after 15yrs in the military, 4 survival schools, and numerous combat operations I can't navigate to a waypoint using a map and compass?? :rolleyes: Man, the DoD is sure wasting it's money then. :rolleyes: :lol:

[TheG4Gaming 2]

Omg I agree! We should also remove the thirst and hunger meters! I don't want green shit on my screen making it simpler to play!

Remove waypoints, fuck it! Remove maps as well. This way we will challenge ourselves to play, because we already know what we are doing compared to the newer players...

You guys are selfish. When I started, I couldn't get anywhere, even with a map. I spent hours in the same town until I died. The reason I am able to play now, is I found someone that showed me how me how to use waypoints, and where is the best place to go.

You have no valid arguments here, removing the waypoints out of a GAME just makes it a pain in the ass. Unless you make the gps more common, just like maps, then there is no point in removing it.

There is a line between realism and gameplay. I want to have fun in a game, not that running is bad enough, let's make people run in the wrong direction for 20 minutes as well....

I know how hard it is to not find your way, i didnt know how to use waypoints when i started too. I used the DayZDB map (because it translated the Russian names to English and the other way around) and this made me love the idea of no waypoints... I went on a hill using my binoculars to look at the citys name plate and then i went on the Map to see where i was, then i started to figure out which direction i was looking at (road shape / buildings) and from there i decided which way to walk. I really enjoyed this and perhaps other will like it too.

Don't you think that maps with russian names are fun?

[mokum 8]

Agree to play it whitout a waypoint but keep the gps and map in Dayz. a NV is not easy to find it, let the gps and map olso make it harder to find.

And about the waypoint a admin can set it on/off let the server runs it on the expert settings,not the standard veteran or regulier way.

[thesodesa 99]

Waypoints are magic, therefore they don't belong in DayZ. They should be removed from the engine features in my opinion. Use the GPS to find your way around the map if you want a high tech way of orienteering.

Edited February 24, 2013 by TheSodesa

[lipemr 160]

the easiest thing in the game is figuring out where you are, you just need to use your brain for a bit and do a little observation, take some references.

GPS should be removed, as they wouldnt work, cause, you know, all the surveillance sattelite network will be offline with the appocalipse.