Waypoints only allowed with a GPS

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I'd support having it take days/weeks to die of thirst, if you want to stay logged in to the game 24/7.

They're two entirely different subjects.

If you can't read a map, put in a little effort. It'll be to your benefit in the real world too.

(though that won't matter since you'll be constantly logged into DayZ, waiting to starve to death)

[HarrySaches 5]

I'd support having it take days/weeks to die of thirst, if you want to stay logged in to the game 24/7.

They're two entirely different subjects.

If you can't read a map, put in a little effort. It'll be to your benefit in the real world too.

(though that won't matter since you'll be constantly logged into DayZ, waiting to starve to death)

That isn't the point being made in this topic, the point is having way points removes the realism, my point is the game isn't as realistic as it could be because you can die of hunger or thirst in a matter of hours instead of days. You can heal a broken bone with a morphine shot, etc etc etc. Also they could have the death come while you are logged off, your thirst and hunger meter still reduce.

Lets make the game like farmville, we can boil our water offline, then log back in to retrieve it, if we take too long the water goes cold and we have to start over again.We have X amount of time to log back in and make sure we feed our characters and give them drinks or else they'll die... lol sound like a good idea? Cooking raw food should take atleast a half hour or so, heck for that matter, raw food should spoil, i'd wager cooking a steak you've had chillin in the trunk for a car for a few days wouldn't be very healthy for you now would it.

If one aspect needs to be removed in order to make the game more realistic then the other areas should come in line and be made to be more realistic as well. Ultimately it's a game which is very brutal as it is, if you dislike waypoints don't use them, why remove them from people who would perfer to use them. So you have other things to gloat about? If a game becomes too much like real life it ceases to be fun. I"m sure loads of other people feel the same way, if ultimately way points got removed I'd probably still play, but ultimately it wouldnt' be as fun for me. I'd rather focus on avoiding zombies, finding food, water, weapons than have to worry which city i'm in.

It comes down to personal choice, removing the option altogether removes that choice for the player. Right now you don't have to use way points. Also does the player have any knowledge of the area at all? If so that could explain the way points, after all if a person lives in an area you'd figure they would have a knowledge of that area they have lived in.

Edited February 15, 2013 by HarrySaches

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

See the flaw in your logic, or carry on repeating yourelf. It's up to you.

The fact is, it IS a game, and certain sacrifices have to be made to create challenging scenarios and maintain pace.

If you didn't have to monitor your food/drink requirements or find morphine to heal broken legs(yes, that's a bit daft), what would you be doing?

You'd be playing ArmA 2.

Adding skill requirements (by removing unnecessary HUD icons) adds to the overall challenge and creates a rewarding experience.

If you don't relish overcoming the challenges handed to you, this isn't the game you should be playing.

Nobody said your character lives in the area. But if YOU know the area, use that knowledge.

if you DON'T know the area. Take some time, and GAIN that knowledge.

Your own familiarity with situations is more important than what your character knows. He/She is just an avatar for you. No backstory, no predefined traits, no classes/perks/killstreaks.

(I think you can guess where this is headed)

/discussion

[HarrySaches 5]

See the flaw in your logic, or carry on repeating yourelf. It's up to you.

The fact is, it IS a game, and certain sacrifices have to be made to create challenging scenarios and maintain pace.

If you didn't have to monitor your food/drink requirements or find morphine to heal broken legs(yes, that's a bit daft), what would you be doing?

You'd be playing ArmA 2.

Adding skill requirements (by removing unnecessary HUD icons) adds to the overall challenge and creates a rewarding experience.

If you don't relish overcoming the challenges handed to you, this isn't the game you should be playing.

Nobody said your character lives in the area. But if YOU know the area, use that knowledge.

if you DON'T know the area. Take some time, and GAIN that knowledge.

Your own familiarity with situations is more important than what your character knows. He/She is just an avatar for you. No backstory, no predefined traits, no classes/perks/killstreaks.

(I think you can guess where this is headed)

/discussion

That isn't the point that was being made in this topic, this topic was bringing up the point that you shouldn't be able to make waypoints because they don't exist in real life. My retort to that logic was you have to make some sacrifices to realism in order to make the game function as it should.

If you can heal a broken leg with a single dose of morphine than it's likewise to assume you should be able to do put waypoints leading you towards the areas on the map you would like to visit. We are on agreement with the idea that you need certain devices in place to make the game how it is. At the same time, I fail to understand how taking away viable gameplay options really helps the community. Like I said, I went a while without knowing about waypoints, without having a map etc etc, at the same time once I was told about waypoints it made the game that much better, I could still explore towns, etc, I could know my location and which towns I was in without having to guesstimate.

The key to a successful game/mod whatever is having it be accessible to the masses, this game is brutal with or without way points. To remove waypoints seems like a foolish idea to me, especially when a person can choose to not use the way points if it bothers them that much. A game should be about playstyle choices, one such choice is having the ability to mark waypoints to point you in the right direction.

It's your journey between point A and point B that makes up the story. If you ignore exploration of towns you are just hurting yourself, running from the Coast up to one of the airports will typically see your food and water meter be just about gone by the time you reach them. That includes if you eat and drink the food and water you are provided. Maybe we just think differently on what a game should be. It is a game, unless everything i've mentioned becomes a reality and the game mirrors real life.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

See the flaw in your logic, or carry on repeating yourelf. It's up to you.

*SNIP*

/discussion

EDIT:

You said yourself, it's the journey that makes the story.

What do waypoints add to that equation? You run straight from A to B.

Cool story.

I don't mean to get snarky, but I hate having to repeat myself, (even though you seem to really enjoy it)

Edited February 15, 2013 by Chabowski

[HarrySaches 5]

you don't enjoy repeating yourself but you do enjoy not providing any answers to the questions I posed, it's all good, I understand you can't do that because you have no real answers. Also if a person runs from point a to point b without stopping for food and water, most likely they'll die rather quickly. You start on the coast and run up to the airstrips either NE or NW and odds are by the time you get there you'll be out of food and drinks and be about half war towards death.

Being that food and drink are rather rare on the airstrips (mainly food outside of animals, which you won't have a hunting knife to kill anyway) you'll die before you get the chance to get back to a city to pilliage it. Typically on my runs I hit the cities on the way up looking for useful tools, if I even go up that way anyway.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

What questions?

You've asked no questions apart from "why remove waypoints?". And that was answered BEFORE YOU ASKED IT!!!

You've made assumptions which are just plain wrong. You've tripped over your own argument. Now you just sound like an idiot.

If you don't understand what I'm telling you, let me spell it out.

DayZ is not supposed to be easy for you, but it is supposed to give you something to work for.

You are rewarded for your efforts not artificially, but with accomplishment.

Concessions have been made, to allow for gameplay to flow at a reasonable pace. That isn't the same as throwing authenticity out the window because you think the game is too hard.

Grow up.

[Spentmind 23]

In real life you can't say: "I want to go there" and then instantly walk in the right direction (without a GPS).

Actually, I can.

But I do like the suggestion.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Spentmind

[HarrySaches 5]

What questions?

You've asked no questions apart from "why remove waypoints?". And that was answered BEFORE YOU ASKED IT!!!

You've made assumptions which are just plain wrong. You've tripped over your own argument. Now you just sound like an idiot.

If you don't understand what I'm telling you, let me spell it out.

DayZ is not supposed to be easy for you, but it is supposed to give you something to work for.

You are rewarded for your efforts not artificially, but with accomplishment.

Concessions have been made, to allow for gameplay to flow at a reasonable pace. That isn't the same as throwing authenticity out the window because you think the game is too hard.

Grow up.

so instead of actually reading my post, finding out what my question was you call me stupid.. That in fact makes you stupid, does it not. Let me spell out my question for you, since you are obviously too challanged to go back and read them.

"WHY SHOULD WAY POINTS BE REMOVED TO MAKE THE GAME MORE REALISTICAL WHEN OTHER REALISTICAL STUFF ISN'T IN THE GAME, IT DOESN"T MAKE SENSE" I even typed it out in all caps for you as well. Mind answering that question?

What difficulty does removing the way points provide other than kicking new players in the nuts and telling them to go screw themselves if they don't know where they are. It adds as much difficulty to the game as mending a broken leg with morphine does it not. Actually i'd wager healing a broken leg with morphine is far more unrealistic and breaking of difficulty and authenticity than using waypoints princess. Also when did I say the game was too hard sunshine? Please point that out to me, I said nothing of the sort. Actually the game is quite easy, the only difficulty exist in the glitchy nature of the zombies. If you'd like to continue to argue, mayhaps you remove the twinkies from your mouth and talk with some respect.

What "throwing authenticity out the window because you think the game is too hard" are you talking about, mending broken bones with morphine? Having loads of ammunition laying all over the place, having admins that spawn themselves gear and helicopters? Healing yourself with food, even though you've already eaten a steak... Having food heal bullet wounds? Having loads of houses you can't enter because the doors are shut, not like someone in that situation wouldn't just, I don't know pick the lock? Having Zombies magically hit you through walls/doors/floors/ceilings? All unrealistic but yes, lets remove way points because it kills the authenticity of the game.

Remember you insulted me first, now if you'd like to respond back to me in a rational way and respond to my question about waypoints being removed like an adult instead of an ADD 13 year old, mayhaps we can resume our conversation, in other words, GROW UP.

Edited February 15, 2013 by HarrySaches

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

You do realise the question you asked, the one about "REASLITICAL" elements, is answered in the post you quoted, don't you?

Go back and read what you've written over the course of this mess.

I just did. And it made no more sense second time 'round.

This isn't your personal chatroom.

Take the information you've been given, learn from it, and leave while you still have some semblance of dignity.

I've tried my best to be nice, but what respect do you believe you deserve? If you can't see that your, apparently deliberate, ignorance is the problem here, there's no help for you.

[HarrySaches 5]

Like I said, when did I say the game should be easy? The difficulty you speak of is only present because of the glitchy nature of the zombies and the threat of getting killed by another player. If you think the game would be made more difficult without waypoints you good sir are mistaken.

Way points are more of a convinence than anything else, it's not like the map has any relevent information on it, rather than the fact that

A) a town is here

B) you have this far to go to get to X town/Y air strip

With the already massive difficulty in finding anyone to group with due to the COD ADD kill on sight anything that moves playerbase. I personally see nothing wrong with way points nor do I think they alter the difficulty in anyway, shape or form. If they are that much of a bother to you, and you think they put the game on such an easy mode don't use them. Instead of trying to force your own opinion on everyone else. No i'm sure you're one of those fellas who uses it and justifies the reason being that "everyone else does it"

As for me leaving with a shred of dignity, the moment I start to let someone one, I don't know, on a message board dictate my amount of dignity will be the day I kill myself. Personally I enjoy the mod for what it is, it is very brutal, while at the same time it's a game, i'm posting a message on a suggestion portion of the message board dedicated to that game. Someone posted a suggestion I disagree with, I presented my ideas on why I think way points deserve to stay. If they were removed i'd deal with it, until then i'll voice my opinion on the matter until either.

A) I no longer play the game

B) way points are removed (which as I pointed out wouldn't increase the difficulty at all, rather than just make people unfamiliar with the map quit)

C) You prove to me conclusively how not having way points makes the game more difficult, I already told you I played the game for about 2 weeks without even knowing way points existed, I still had zero problems with surviving outside of the occasional glitched zombie, or getting killed by bandits when I was unarmed. The only difference way points have made to my game was I spend lots less time not knowing which city i'm in, and more time looting, zombie killing etc.

[willey.erd@oundleschool.org.uk 506]

"WHY SHOULD WAY POINTS BE REMOVED TO MAKE THE GAME MORE REALISTICAL WHEN OTHER REALISTICAL STUFF ISN'T IN THE GAME, IT DOESN"T MAKE SENSE" I even typed it out in all caps for you as well. Mind answering that question?

What "throwing authenticity out the window because you think the game is too hard" are you talking about, mending broken bones with morphine? Having loads of ammunition laying all over the place, having admins that spawn themselves gear and helicopters? Healing yourself with food, even though you've already eaten a steak... Having food heal bullet wounds? Having loads of houses you can't enter because the doors are shut, not like someone in that situation wouldn't just, I don't know pick the lock? Having Zombies magically hit you through walls/doors/floors/ceilings? All unrealistic but yes, lets remove way points because it kills the authenticity of the game.

I don't understand why people bring up other, completely irrelevant examples to try to prove their point, when things like childish admins, bugged zombies and unenterable houses are all problems that really have nothing to do with FEATURES of the mod.

All the waypoint system does is provide a backdoor for the lazy to take them straight to the ub3r 1337 l00t at the NWAF, when doing some exploration is one of the most rewarding aspects of the mod as it stands. When I first played DayZ, part of its charm was spawning in on a beach and not having a clue where you were, then trying to figure it out by exploration of the surrounding area. The uncertainty is one of the defining features of the DayZ experience for many.

Now, obviously, that charm has been lost somewhat as I have invested a lot of time into DayZ, but the point still stands that sometimes I enjoy attempting to get from my camp to other cities with minimal use of the map/no waypoints at all. Hell, it's easy enough to navigate using the ample road signs (if you can read cyrillic).

As Chabowski keeps saying, this isn't a topic necessarily about realism, it's about adding a compelling and exciting challenge to the survival aspect of the mod, which many of us enjoy far more than the PVP fests that you use the waypoint system to guide yourself towards.

Finally, learn 2 alphabet. A, B, C, not A, A, C.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Ingasmeeg

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

As in other threads in here, I kind of see both sides of the argument - on one had, there's no logical reason why a GPS wouldn't be available, assuming that Chernarus is a localised incident and not a worldwide one, in which case the satellites would likely be down for the same reason as the power is. In the same breath, there's also no logical reason why the player should be able to have a waypoint pop up on his screen telling him how far and where something is without actually having a GPS. There's no 'real life' situation that the little green box is recreating without a GPS.

However, with a GPS in your possession, I think it becomes a slightly different story - it's there as a 'convenience', as we don't currently have the ability in-game to lift the GPS to our face and look at it (although I suppose it could be implemented in the same way that 'K' brings your compass up - hell, for all I know, it could already do this - I've never been lucky enough to find one!). In terms of simply being a convenient way of doing something via the HUD that I would otherwise have to go into menus for, it's no worse than the Ammo counter in the top right corner. Sure, the game could make us open our inventory and individually count the bullets, but what would be the point?

For all Rocket's (and some of the more hardcore players) insistence that 'this is not a game, it's a survival simulator' etc etc, we need to get one thing clear. It IS a game. It's a piece of software that's designed for entertainment, and it's also something that the developer is expecting people to pay money in order to play. To that light, you're probably going to want to make the game accessible to as many people as possible, because more players = more money. In order to do that, there will be occasions when you have to balance out absolute 'to the letter' realism for a reasonable and justifiable facsimile - point in case Morphine - everyone knows that Morphine will not cure a broken leg. On the same note however, those with a basic knowledge of field medicine/first aid/whatever will know that with Morphine and a decent splint, the leg would be usable (although don't expect to be sprinting anywhere!) in the short term, although it would be weighed off with potential long-term repercussions.

However, that's not going to translate well to a game that people play to be entertained. So we suspend our disbelief and remind ourselves that at least the game is factoring in something like broken limbs in the first place.

No matter what, you're not going to please everyone - there are people for whom the game will never be 'too easy' until it's a shot-for-shot remake of Call of Duty Zombie mode. There are also people who will complain that the game isn't hard/realistic enough even if you have to manually control breathing in and out with your keyboard. DayZ is always going to be a balancing act between those two, albeit with a healthy nudge in the direction of the 'realistic' camp.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

You made me boot up the PC.

Can't cut and paste your ramblings on the crappy browser.

I personally see nothing wrong with way points nor do I think they alter the difficulty in anyway, shape or form.

The only difference way points have made to my game was I spend lots less time not knowing which city i'm in

Are you broken?

That's a perfect example of a change in difficulty. There's no question about that.

Are we done here?

EDIT:

Finally, learn 2 alphabet. A, B, C, not A, A, C.

Class. ;)

Edited February 15, 2013 by Chabowski

[willey.erd@oundleschool.org.uk 506]

More players = more money.

Rocket would never sell out like that. If you have read many of his posts on Reddit, Twitter, etc. you will know that he plans only to make the 'game' he has always wanted to play, which is much more a survival sim than a zombie shoot 'em up. The prototype of DayZ didn't even have zombies.

I do see your point, but I still don't see how adding a magic arrow pointing towards your destination makes the game better/more fun. There needs to be a compromise, and I'm sorry but the morphine example is not a good one to compare with the GPS. Yes, a broken leg would require weeks to heal, and that is ridiculous, but you're all blowing it out of proportion compared to being able to read a bloody map. It's really not that hard, there are many easy ways to figure out where you are via landmarks, contours, road signs, town layouts. The map in the game is also incredibly accurate, and I hope in SA they make it more civilian and with some errors (like any normal map would be).

Morphine fixing a broken leg is ridiculous, but your implications that that situation is anything similar in terms of how game changing it is are completely misguided. For God's sake, the character's legs in this game are made out of glass or something anyway, they break their legs that often.

People aren't going to rage quit over a map. If you can't be bothered to spend 4 or 5 minutes looking around and figuring out where you are then I'm sorry but you don't really fit the generally accepted DayZ player archetype (in before 'You can't dictate who plays the game').

[gloopsgf 35]

Omg I agree! We should also remove the thirst and hunger meters! I don't want green shit on my screen making it simpler to play!

Remove waypoints, fuck it! Remove maps as well. This way we will challenge ourselves to play, because we already know what we are doing compared to the newer players...

You guys are selfish. When I started, I couldn't get anywhere, even with a map. I spent hours in the same town until I died. The reason I am able to play now, is I found someone that showed me how me how to use waypoints, and where is the best place to go.

You have no valid arguments here, removing the waypoints out of a GAME just makes it a pain in the ass. Unless you make the gps more common, just like maps, then there is no point in removing it.

There is a line between realism and gameplay. I want to have fun in a game, not that running is bad enough, let's make people run in the wrong direction for 20 minutes as well....

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

Rocket would never sell out like that. If you have read many of his posts on Reddit, Twitter, etc. you will know that he plans only to make the 'game' he has always wanted to play, which is much more a survival sim than a zombie shoot 'em up. The prototype of DayZ didn't even have zombies.

I do see your point, but I still don't see how adding a magic arrow pointing towards your destination makes the game better/more fun. There needs to be a compromise, and I'm sorry but the morphine example is not a good one to compare with the GPS. Yes, a broken leg would require weeks to heal, and that is ridiculous, but you're all blowing it out of proportion compared to being able to read a bloody map. It's really not that hard, there are many easy ways to figure out where you are via landmarks, contours, road signs, town layouts. The map in the game is also incredibly accurate, and I hope in SA they make it more civilian and with some errors (like any normal map would be).

Morphine fixing a broken leg is ridiculous, but your implications that that situation is anything similar in terms of how game changing it is are completely misguided. For God's sake, the character's legs in this game are made out of glass or something anyway, they break their legs that often.

People aren't going to rage quit over a map. If you can't be bothered to spend 4 or 5 minutes looking around and figuring out where you are then I'm sorry but you don't really fit the generally accepted DayZ player archetype (in before 'You can't dictate who plays the game').

Perhaps I didn't word it quite correctly, but my intention was most definitely not to compare the use of morphine to the addition of a GPS waypoint, and I'm pretty sure I didn't make that direct comparison anywhere - I simply used morphine as a stronger example of accessibility over 'absolute' realism. The case of the GPS is at the absolute opposite end of the scale, and if you read my post again you'll notice that the comparison I DID make is to the Ammo counter in the top right corner. It's not game-changing, but it's convenient, and it's an acceptable break from reality that you make because it makes it easier to enjoy the stuff that actually matters.

Also, please note that in the opening paragraph that I stated that I'm fully in support of getting rid of waypoints until the player finds a GPS. Bearing in mind how hard they are to find, the odds of a player somehow stumbling across one before they've learned to read the map properly are more than low enough to mean that successful map use would be an essential skill if a player wants to survive.

Rocket would never sell out like that. If you have read many of his posts on Reddit, Twitter, etc. you will know that he plans only to make the 'game' he has always wanted to play, which is much more a survival sim than a zombie shoot 'em up. The prototype of DayZ didn't even have zombies.

Ugh, those two words 'sell out'. Why did you have to use them? Let's look at what a 'sell out' is, shall we? I think we could probably agree that it's someone who goes against their principles and what they initially set out to do in pursuit of money/fame/whatever. That's reasonable, yeah?

Now, without wishing to second-guess the man himself, shall we assume that Rocket likes to make games, and in particular survival games? And now let's assume (because it's pretty much any gamer's dream) that he would also like to design/make games he likes for a living, to have lots of people play and enjoy those games, and to make enough money to live comfortably while doing so. Not unreasonable assumptions, I think?

DayZ Standalone is probably going to tick those boxes. They could release it tomorrow and it would probably sell like hot cakes. As the hype machine builds up and people who haven't heard of it start seeing it on Steam pre-orders and so on, this game certainly isn't going to struggle to get people to buy it and play it. It's also a game that Rocket (certainly seems to be) is happy and proud of. So why is a little bit of accessibility in the name of broadening the potential audience 'selling out?' It's not, and it's part of why I HATE that term. I know you probably didn't mean it like that, and I don't want to drag this whole conversation even further off topic than it is already, but let's be sensible about our choices of words, because right now, I'm pretty sure Rocket is living the dream (whilst also wishing he'd had a less stressful dream :P).

[King Tubbs 224]

i agree get rid of way-points but keep the GPS i would like waypints to be able to be set with a gps but have to take it out to see where the waypoint/direction is

Edited February 15, 2013 by King Tubbs

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

i agree get rid of way-points but keep the GPS i would like waypints to be able to be set with a gps but have to take it out to see where the waypoint/direction is

Exactly. That seems to be the fair, 'middle ground' solution here.

[HarrySaches 5]

You made me boot up the PC.

Can't cut and paste your ramblings on the crappy browser.

Are you broken?

That's a perfect example of a change in difficulty. There's no question about that.

Are we done here?

EDIT:

Class. ;)

I used a few points points, thanks, don't know why one became a smiley face but again that's unimportant to the grand scope of what my points were. Also it's not difficulty it's called a time sink. Their's a difference between the two. It's not as if waypoints magically teleport you to the area you want to go right? You'll eventually learn the area regardless.

Time you spend running around looking to figure out which area you are in is time you could be spending doing other more important things, like searching for gear, food or drinks. In all honesty you don't even need to travel away from Electro to stay alive in this game, everything you need is right there anyhow. It's a convience issue rather than a difficulty issue. For people who dislike it you have the option to not use it, why argue to have that option removed from other players who do enjoy using it for convinence.

Difficulty would require something that makes it harder to survive without, do you really think it would be harder to survive without waypoints? You can find everything you need to survive in any of the big cities which are all pretty much easy to find, and you can survive in any of the smaller cities provided it has a shop you can loot for food/drinks. None of the shops, firehouses, factories, houses or anything else is marked on the maps except for cities.

We can agree to disagree but your insistence that you are right is downright bordering on elitism. Also, whatever language the maps are in, yeah I can't read that, I have no intentions on learning to read it either, like I said, an unneccesary time sink.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I'm not here to argue semantics.

Convenient, accommodating, uncomplicated, less demanding, accessible, simple, manageable. Whatever you want to label it as, it's a feature which makes your experience easier through means which wouldn't be necessary if you were willing to put in more effort.

If you consider it elitist to support the ideals which make the concept of DayZ stand out as the "anti-game" which grabbed out attention in the first place, you're playing the wrong game.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

Also, whatever language the maps are in, yeah I can't read that, I have no intentions on learning to read it either, like I said, an unneccesary time sink.

This, for me, is why I can't agree with your personal stance. I have no issue with Waypoints for those who have found a GPS. I consider that a feature of the GPS, and one of the main reasons you'd want to find one. However, I DO NOT believe it should be there as a crutch/shortcut for those players who don't want to learn skills that will give them an advantage, which is what you seem to want. There's no 'levelling up' in DayZ, all players are created equal, meaning that if someone chooses to give themselves an advantage by learning a particular skill, then that's something they earned. I don't understand why you feel it should be given to someone just because they turned up.

Finding your location on a map isn't a tough skill, you could go from not knowing a damn thing about maps to 'pretty proficient' inside an hour, and you can justify that by the fact that it's also a useful skill to have in real life. Reading Cyrillic (the language on the signs) is a slightly tougher proposition, but it only requires knowing the alphabet, it's not like you have to learn how to ask someone where they keep their dog biscuits and what time the next train to Moscow is. I've not done it myself, as generally my map-reading has been sufficient so far to allow me to have a rough idea where I am, but if someone's done that/got that skill, more power to them - I admire their willingness to improve themselves.

Bottom line is, there's a difference between practicality/accessibility and catering to players who are lazy/unwilling to learn. Players on the wrong side of that line are going to struggle to enjoy DayZ. Players on the right side are going to have the time of their lives.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Target Practice

[terrvik 2409]

If you consider it elitist to support the ideals which make the concept of DayZ stand out as the "anti-game" which grabbed out attention in the first place, you're playing the wrong game.

Pretty much this yes. If I would like convenience and quick access to the action I would play another game more designed for that. Not having waypoints or any other means helps with the illusion of being lost in a new dangerous world.

[shadowleaper 22]

I think they should get rid of GPS altogether. That, and make the map worse, and let us do all kinds of navigational shit by manipulating the map and compass (bearings, triangulating, etc.).

I'd like players to go one step further and maybe pick up incomplete maps and then through navigation start filling them out. The more detailed maps are made the longer you remain in and around that area.