Eating Crow

[Dr. Goner 661]

So, let the onslaught of "who gives a $%&!" replies begin...

I have returned to DayZ. Even with the prevalence of low brow moronic phrases like U Mad Bro and Derp, DayZ has a great group of players.

The "U MAD BRO" crowd may be a sign of the apocalypse and the first step backward in human evolution, but they make up a small portion of the dayz commmunity.

I made a post a week ago that I was leaving dayz because I had been screwed over by some fifteen year old kid. Well, in private messages, forum members reached out to me encouraging me to fight on. So, I'm back on my home server. I had made friends there, I missed those guys. They're good hard working adults just like me and we're only looking for a little escape. It's great to be back.

I am limiting my play time extensively and honestly it has been really nice to get away from the computer and do some real world stuff.

I still play the hero because it's the toughest way to play the game and the most challenging gaming experience I've had. All you bandits go back to kiddie camp. You know nothing of elite gaming. The first day I logged back on and retrieved a chopper. I got shot at while performing an evacuation with medical support. I had to laugh. After all, now I know it's not my chopper, it's dayz's chopper. The guy I saved was extremely thankful and apologized because I'd been shot at while picking him up. No problem, I said, another friend gained.

The kid who screwed me over is now hated by the entire server as he has screwed every "regular" over in one way or another at this point. He can't help himself. In fact, it was a day or two after I came back that his entire crew fell apart and most of his group left the server. I wonder if undercover saboteurs had anything to do with it... :P

Anyway, I did do a lot of research on morality in gaming. If you're interested there is a ton of information out there. It seems that most researches find, in controlled lab experiments, that a players controlled actions of an avatar DO in fact point to real aspects of that players personality. It's kinda scary, if its true, how most of us are keeping our demons in check.

Thanks to everyone who helped me get back in the saddle and extra special thanks to those who dropped by the server to help decimate a clan of fifteen year old bandits.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

I knew it wouldn't be long, DayZ is too good a game to let go.................

Welcome back, Remember if you don't like the way it is going, change the way you play it!

Edited February 11, 2013 by Michaelvoodoo25

[Dr. Goner 661]

I knew it wouldn't be long, DayZ is too good a game to let go.................

Welcome back, Remember if you don't like the way it is going, change the way you play it!

Indeed! I have taken on a completely different style of "base" building. Many small bases with just the essentials. No more giant camps. Also, I've been hiding bases in plain site. It's a fun activity, plus If they get found it doesn't hurt. I like the idea of creating little caches out there just for other players to find. Edited February 11, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Glad to hear it. Making communal medic caches is a great idea, similar to something I used to do on public hives. Once you've set them up make the locations known to some of the trusted medics and let the positive karma start flowing.

Welcome back.

[Mr Nasty 1023]

No need to eat crow. Even though I have never played in game with you its good to have you back as part of the community. Keep bringing value to this place and F*!K what the haters say.

[Dr. Goner 661]

Glad to hear it. Making communal medic caches is a great idea, similar to something I used to do on public hives. Once you've set them up make the locations known to some of the trusted medics and let the positive karma start flowing.

Welcome back.

This is a great idea! I just applied to Balota Buddies whitelist! Which server should I get on for normal DayZ US 1.7.5.1? Anyway, that's off topic, but thanks for the encouragement man!

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

This is a great idea! I just applied to Balota Buddies whitelist! Which server should I get on for normal DayZ US 1.7.5.1? Anyway, that's off topic, but thanks for the encouragement man!

I'll PM you.

[AlexanderMarksman 2]

Hmm ur title oddly attracts me, could the crow your referencing be me the celtic crow in game? This hole take over a server thing and kill all the regulars sounds like something i would do lol.

[Fenrod 60]

Well, I guess asylums could get a lot of patients from DayZ.

[Spentmind 23]

The fact that a single player managed to screw everyone over is great, that player deserves a medal. And I suppose you're the expert on elite gaming because you're so good at being a Hero.

[AlexanderMarksman 2]

I have no idea if it was me but could be i mean im known as Crow on a few servers and address myself as such after a kill, maybe he is giving some rage against me as a lone wolf. All i know is if he got a .308 round in the head or fell for one of my hey i will help u tricks then most likely it was me.

[Dr. Goner 661]

The fact that a single player managed to screw everyone over is great, that player deserves a medal. And I suppose you're the expert on elite gaming because you're so good at being a Hero.

Ha! No, that was just a little dig I added in to upset the bandits. I just personally feel like being a bandit is the easy way to play DayZ. Hide in the bushes and kill everyone, or take a chance to save someone asking for help? Seems obvious to me.

[Dr. Goner 661]

I have no idea if it was me but could be i mean im known as Crow on a few servers and address myself as such after a kill, maybe he is giving some rage against me as a lone wolf. All i know is if he got a .308 round in the head or fell for one of my hey i will help u tricks then most likely it was me.

Jesus man, look up the phrase "Eating Crow" online and get back to me when you're informed. Your sense of self-importance is really really annoying. It most definitely was not you, but I won't give out this kids name because that's just wrong.

[AlexanderMarksman 2]

Ha! No, that was just a little dig I added in to upset the bandits. I just personally feel like being a bandit is the easy way to play DayZ. Hide in the bushes and kill everyone, or take a chance to save someone asking for help? Seems obvious to me.

Ok thanx for clearing that up thought i was getting called out and needed to show someone what a real bandit is ;) Next time tho dont use my name lol.

[AlexanderMarksman 2]

Jesus man, look up the phrase "Eating Crow" online and get back to me when you're informed. Your sense of self-importance is really really annoying. It most definitely was not you, but I won't give out this kids name because that's just wrong.

Well i'm known as crow and eating crow sounds like something a raging 13 year old would say to rage on the person with that name. Also don't be hatting on a bandit just because you made a topic that had nothing to do with what it was about, helpful note ur posting in bandit campfire expect BANDITS!

[Sutinen 635]

Yeahh, what did I tell you? You still had to bluff me "I'm just looking at replies"

[misterwit 118]

I like how you tried to criminalize the bandit by pointing out his age and analyzing his choices against studies done on people who play games and yet you spend no time reflecting on how people in a video game made you quit playing altogether even though you obviously love it.

Here's a little hint to people who want to earn their psychology degrees in Day Z: ad hominem and fallacy of the strawman are not tools for digging into the minds of your "subjects".

[Udak 104]

As a board-certified-completely-totally-legit-Internet-Psychologist (M.D.), I used my internet skillz to find this article. I MAKE NO CLAIM ON ITS VERACITY, NOR DO I PARTICULARLY FEEL LIKE VETTING IT BECAUSE IT ESPOUSES MY OPINION.

http://www.mprcenter...=218&Itemid=186

PREPARE FOR LONG BLOCK COPYPASTA[boldface mine]:

Sicart argues that when players enter a virtual world such as the one created in Deus Ex, they are still “morally aware and capable of reflecting upon the nature of… acts within the game world” (Sicart, 2009 p. 62). Sicart points out that playing a game does not change the nature of who we are as human beings, and that actions, even in a virtual world, still carry implications (Sicart, 2009). This point is important to the present discussion, because if players enter a game world having left all morality behind, then moral concerns make no difference and in-game actions are meaningless. But if players enter into a game as moral beings, as ethical agents (Sicart, 2009), then what they do in the game is meaningful.

Screenshot: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 "No Russian Mission"

Zagal (2009) considers the ethical implications of playing games which present players with moral dilemmas. According to Zagal’s reasoning, games that have components with ethical implications built in encourage moral reflection. For instance, consider Ultima IV which forces players to favor certain virtues over others (such as valuing honesty over compassion or humility or honor; Origin, 1985), Zagal (2009) argues that Ultima IV “attempts to make the player feel personally invested or responsible for the decisions they make…” (p. 4). If players, in fact do feel responsible for what they do in games, what then are the psychological mechanisms by which those feelings are wrought? What happens in the mind when players either choose to or are required by the game system to violate their own "standards of morality?"

Klimmt and colleagues argued that players can and do disengage their usual sanctions against morally questionable behavior in order to enjoy acts of violence in video games (Klimmt et al., 2006; Klimmt, Schmid, Nosper, Hartmann, & Vorderer, 2008). The authors offer a theoretical perspective known as moral management; a process by which disengagement cues imbedded in the game narrative interact with players’ desires to win the game (Klimmt et al., 2006; 2008). The result is a cognitive abandonment of moral concerns, which allows players to enjoy games even when they are expected or required to perform morally reprehensible acts.

Hartmann and Vorderer (2010) found that moral disengagement cues in violent games both increased and decreased enjoyment. Acting as the “bad guy” in the game enhanced negative feelings, but did not impact enjoyment of the game. The authors argued that gamers may have felt effective, powerful, and excited, diminishing guilt and negative affect and allowing enjoyment to continue (Hartmann & Vorderer, 2010).

Furthermore, Hartmann, Toz, and Brandon (2010) reported players feeling guiltier in the unjustified violence gaming condition, or if they knew more about the enemy’s background. So far, research on morality and video games has concluded that moral judgments are an important part of game play, and that players take steps to absolve themselves of guilt for violent actions taken in virtual worlds.

/copypasta

I'm obviously cherry picking, and the article goes on to say things that run contrary to the above. BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER. My only point is that the literature is mixed, and we may be getting causality and correlations mixed (eg violent turns in videogames may in turn make people more violent, rather than violent people seek violent choices/solutions in videogames). ITS A NEW THING TO STUDY, AND WE'RE STILL LEARNING.

Also, just to reconfirm--I'm an internet psychologist, I know absolutely nothing about psychology (or the internet for that matter...series of tubes amirite). In conclusion, Bandits simply 'are' and attempts to categorize them as misanthropic are usually misguided and/or stupid.

[Dr. Goner 661]

I like how you tried to criminalize the bandit by pointing out his age and analyzing his choices against studies done on people who play games and yet you spend no time reflecting on how people in a video game made you quit playing altogether even though you obviously love it.

Here's a little hint to people who want to earn their psychology degrees in Day Z: ad hominem and fallacy of the strawman are not tools for digging into the minds of your "subjects".

I take no issue with your observation. I agree. There are many reasons why we play video games and DayZ is definitely a strong draw. Edited February 11, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Dr. Goner 661]

As a board-certified-completely-totally-legit-Internet-Psychologist (M.D.), I used my internet skillz to find this article. I MAKE NO CLAIM ON ITS VERACITY, NOR DO I PARTICULARLY FEEL LIKE VETTING IT BECAUSE IT ESPOUSES MY OPINION.

http://www.mprcenter...=218&Itemid=186

PREPARE FOR LONG BLOCK COPYPASTA[boldface mine]:

Sicart argues that when players enter a virtual world such as the one created in Deus Ex, they are still “morally aware and capable of reflecting upon the nature of… acts within the game world” (Sicart, 2009 p. 62). Sicart points out that playing a game does not change the nature of who we are as human beings, and that actions, even in a virtual world, still carry implications (Sicart, 2009). This point is important to the present discussion, because if players enter a game world having left all morality behind, then moral concerns make no difference and in-game actions are meaningless. But if players enter into a game as moral beings, as ethical agents (Sicart, 2009), then what they do in the game is meaningful.

Screenshot: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 "No Russian Mission"

Zagal (2009) considers the ethical implications of playing games which present players with moral dilemmas. According to Zagal’s reasoning, games that have components with ethical implications built in encourage moral reflection. For instance, consider Ultima IV which forces players to favor certain virtues over others (such as valuing honesty over compassion or humility or honor; Origin, 1985), Zagal (2009) argues that Ultima IV “attempts to make the player feel personally invested or responsible for the decisions they make…” (p. 4). If players, in fact do feel responsible for what they do in games, what then are the psychological mechanisms by which those feelings are wrought? What happens in the mind when players either choose to or are required by the game system to violate their own "standards of morality?"

Klimmt and colleagues argued that players can and do disengage their usual sanctions against morally questionable behavior in order to enjoy acts of violence in video games (Klimmt et al., 2006; Klimmt, Schmid, Nosper, Hartmann, & Vorderer, 2008). The authors offer a theoretical perspective known as moral management; a process by which disengagement cues imbedded in the game narrative interact with players’ desires to win the game (Klimmt et al., 2006; 2008). The result is a cognitive abandonment of moral concerns, which allows players to enjoy games even when they are expected or required to perform morally reprehensible acts.

Hartmann and Vorderer (2010) found that moral disengagement cues in violent games both increased and decreased enjoyment. Acting as the “bad guy” in the game enhanced negative feelings, but did not impact enjoyment of the game. The authors argued that gamers may have felt effective, powerful, and excited, diminishing guilt and negative affect and allowing enjoyment to continue (Hartmann & Vorderer, 2010).

Furthermore, Hartmann, Toz, and Brandon (2010) reported players feeling guiltier in the unjustified violence gaming condition, or if they knew more about the enemy’s background. So far, research on morality and video games has concluded that moral judgments are an important part of game play, and that players take steps to absolve themselves of guilt for violent actions taken in virtual worlds.

/copypasta

I'm obviously cherry picking, and the article goes on to say things that run contrary to the above. BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER. My only point is that the literature is mixed, and we may be getting causality and correlations mixed (eg violent turns in videogames may in turn make people more violent, rather than violent people seek violent choices/solutions in videogames). ITS A NEW THING TO STUDY, AND WE'RE STILL LEARNING.

Also, just to reconfirm--I'm an internet psychologist, I know absolutely nothing about psychology (or the internet for that matter...series of tubes amirite). In conclusion, Bandits simply 'are' and attempts to categorize them as misanthropic are usually misguided and/or stupid.

There is definitely a lot of information on this subject out there. What I found really interesting is that some cognitive psychologists are actually designing video games to test their theories. Perhaps today, they would use a game to perform the famous Milgram experiment. Anyway, thanks for replying.

[Dr. Goner 661]

Well i'm known as crow and eating crow sounds like something a raging 13 year old would say to rage on the person with that name. Also don't be hatting on a bandit just because you made a topic that had nothing to do with what it was about, helpful note ur posting in bandit campfire expect BANDITS!

The subject means I'm "Eating Crow" because I said I was leaving the game and now I'm admitting I was wrong because I've come crawling back. The subject title is perfectly descriptive of the post.

[Dr. Goner 661]

Yeahh, what did I tell you? You still had to bluff me "I'm just looking at replies"

WU TANG!!

[Spentmind 23]

I may kill everyone in the game but even I won't kill someone when I've told them I'm friendly, or told them I'd help, or asked them for help. I'm a Bandit, and an asshole but tricking people is just a dick move. Also, I think I would play as a Hero if I could, but at -700,000 humanity (Was a bandit long long long before Hero skin came in) it's just not gonna happen. I'm flexible, I don't mind helping people, and I don't mind killing people.

[Dr. Goner 661]

I may kill everyone in the game but even I won't kill someone when I've told them I'm friendly, or told them I'd help, or asked them for help. I'm a Bandit, and an asshole but tricking people is just a dick move. Also, I think I would play as a Hero if I could, but at -700,000 humanity (Was a bandit long long long before Hero skin came in) it's just not gonna happen. I'm flexible, I don't mind helping people, and I don't mind killing people.

I don't mind an honest bandit. But I will try to convince you, there's always a time for redemption. Watch this for inspiration.

[hogscraper 328]

I play on multiple servers and sometimes I play as a hero, sometimes I play as a bandit. I have honor in real life and that doesn't magically go away when I play a video game. People who claim that how they play doesn't reflect on who they really are just don't want others to think that they actually are callous pieces of shit in real life. Someone who isn't a racist isn't going to throw racist terms around side chat when they get mad. Someone who doesn't gain satisfaction from the pain of others sees no reason to snipe a guy who just spawned. When a person first launches Dayz, they have no idea what's going and most likely have no idea what they are supposed to do. Once you find a decent weapon, what you do with weapon and how you act within the confines of what the game allows you to do is a direct reflection of who you really are as a person. Claiming otherwise just makes you look bad. I don't think anyone in this game who has shot a bunch of pixels with their gun-shaped blob of pixels is a murderer. I do think someone who does things, that they know causes unnecessary emotional harm to another player, does so because doing so is its own reward to them.

The problem with talking shit to a guy like Gonzo, is that without people like him, those little bambies bandits enjoy killing wouldn't be playing for long. That's why I choose to fight nihilism in any form. It serves no purpose except to hurt a server's population and without people to help or to kill, there isn't much reason to play Dayz.