Simple reason as to why bloogbags have a chance to give an infection..

[aleksiuski@gmail.com 58]

Hi,

I've seen many people Q_Q about the reasoning why bloodbags have now a chance to infect player. As a medical professional the reason behind this is obvious to me, but might be kinda loss with the general population. Bloodtransfusion is given via a vain-connection: with a needle and a hose. 99% of infections with real-life transfusion happens not because of "infected" blood but because of poor hygienics if the point of puncture on your skin is not disinfected properly or if the needle is not disinfected and otherwise clean you can get all sorts of funky shit happening; bloodpoisoning, infections and such.

In the world of DayZ, where your character comes in contact with the undead and crawls through piles of crap etc it is completely plausible to have "comporomised hygienic state" with both skin and needle when you bloodbag eachother, so it makes perfect sense to have a chance to be "infected" and need antibiotics. So, the blood is not infected, but there is bacteria on your skin and on the needle (if it is "compromised" and not in sterile conditions) that can and will give you infection.

Maybe in the future we have one more medical component; disinfectant, that we can use to make bloodtransfusion 100% safe :)

I decided to make a new topic on this because it has been Q_Q'd in a hundred different ones and I don't want to answer them all :D

Edited February 6, 2013 by Kuolio

[RooBurger 285]

Disinfectant would be good, or even the ability to boil the needles in water?

Also, how long does blood last when it isn't refrigerated?

Edited February 6, 2013 by RooBurger

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Disinfectant would be good, or even the ability to boil the needles in water?

Also, how long does blood last when it isn't refrigerated?

You'd have a clean needle puncturing unclean skin, same chance of infection.

[Mos1ey 6301]

What happened to common sense? xD

[janus0104 212]

Disinfectant would be good, or even the ability to boil the needles in water?

Also, how long does blood last when it isn't refrigerated?

Needles are packaged in a sterile bag seperately, so a disinfectant would be more reasonable.

Unrefrigerated donated blood, if taken under professional supervision (i.e., adding the chemicals that make it last longer), lasts around 30-45 days.

I believe the idea behind the blood bag in DayZ is that the one survivor gives the blood to the other, as in it's never older than a minute?

[Jeremiah Cross 55]

I would love to see, not necessarily an overhaul, but some changes to the whole medical side of DayZ. Bandages should slow or temporarily stop bleeding, enough to allow you to get away, but antiseptic (perhaps add some full whiskey bottles=).), sutchers (to permanently close the would) and cauterization (via a campfire) should be options. And morphine for a broken leg should need to be administered more than once, say once or twice per day for a week or so, real time until the leg "heals". I also think the potential for a morphine addiction to develop if your character uses it frequently enough could be a cool addition; you know, in that it sucks when it happens but makes the game better sort of way.

I know it would add a lot of code and not be easy to add in, but IMHO, the harder the game is the better. I want to fight tooth and nail to survive and that's before you add other players into the mix.

[Easy_Tiger (DayZ) 33]

Hi,

I've seen many people Q_Q about the reasoning why bloodbags have now a chance to infect player. As a medical professional the reason behind this is obvious to me, but might be kinda loss with the general population. Bloodtransfusion is given via a vain-connection: with a needle and a hose. 99% of infections with real-life transfusion happens not because of "infected" blood but because of poor hygienics if the point of puncture on your skin is not disinfected properly or if the needle is not disinfected and otherwise clean you can get all sorts of funky shit happening; bloodpoisoning, infections and such.

In the world of DayZ, where your character comes in contact with the undead and crawls through piles of crap etc it is completely plausible to have "comporomised hygienic state" with both skin and needle when you bloodbag eachother, so it makes perfect sense to have a chance to be "infected" and need antibiotics. So, the blood is not infected, but there is bacteria on your skin and on the needle (if it is "compromised" and not in sterile conditions) that can and will give you infection.

Maybe in the future we have one more medical component; disinfectant, that we can use to make bloodtransfusion 100% safe :)

I decided to make a new topic on this because it has been Q_Q'd in a hundred different ones and I don't want to answer them all :D

Plus you dont know if the donor wasnt infected in the first place, like those stories of peeps getting HIV from transfusions years ago

[aleksiuski@gmail.com 58]

I would love to see, not necessarily an overhaul, but some changes to the whole medical side of DayZ. Bandages should slow or temporarily stop bleeding, enough to allow you to get away, but antiseptic (perhaps add some full whiskey bottles=).), sutchers (to permanently close the would) and cauterization (via a campfire) should be options. And morphine for a broken leg should need to be administered more than once, say once or twice per day for a week or so, real time until the leg "heals". I also think the potential for a morphine addiction to develop if your character uses it frequently enough could be a cool addition; you know, in that it sucks when it happens but makes the game better sort of way.

I know it would add a lot of code and not be easy to add in, but IMHO, the harder the game is the better. I want to fight tooth and nail to survive and that's before you add other players into the mix.

The medical side sure could use a lot of additions. What if broken bones could not be mended by a simple shot of morphine, and like you suggest, would need splint to get better. To splint a limb you'd need to have morphine (putting open fractures back together is ultra-painfull), bandages and woodsticks/splints to wrap it up with. Addictions would be sweet, like in fallout :D Characters also get pretty banged up every now and then, so how about setting up a system to simulate concussion (blurry vision, dizzyness, hearing problems)? There is much that could be added, and that could make the medical-side of dayz feel alot deeper than it currently is!

[janus0104 212]

Let's go a little nuts, shall we?

How about losing a limb? Say you break your leg or catch a bullet in your arm/leg (I get told ArmA2 is so simulationy, surely it knows where you got hit), there is a chance that wound get a sepsis that develops within hours of the initial wound. Recognizing an infection as soon as possible is vital to surviving, if you just ignore it your organs fail and you die.

Antibiotics are a viable course of action against a sepsis, but there's at best a 50% chance of having success, and the infected area has to be treated with a scalpel (chance for a 'normal infection' there aswell), getting a bullet out or cutting off infected flesh. So in total, you'd need a scalpel, painkillers or morphine to withstand the pain and do the operation yourself (or someone else treats you), antibiotics to fight the sepsis immunologically, bandages to stop the bleeding caused by the operation, remain stationary for at least a minute, and sheer luck.

If it's treated too late, the limb may have to be cut off and the stump cauterized. A makeshift wooden stick to keep walking if it's a leg is no problem to come by, but you cant run anymore, you cant climb ladders anyway quickly, and for most of the time you would have to rely on others to assist you in survivng.

I guess the whole process described is a bit extreme, surely it could be simplified, or you just give zombies the chance to rip off one of your limbs and simply require cauterizing the wound or you bleed out within 3 minutes. But it would change the game entirely for the character and the player in control of him, introducing the question of whether suicide is a vialbe way out - though to be honest, adding such a thing to a videogame is something we'd have to discuss on a few levels, we don't want to inspire anyone in reallife to hurt themselves -,and adds a whole new aspect to event the most sworn together group. Do you help your wounded comrade along, or put him out of his misery, grab his gear and meet up with him after he respawned?

Discuss!

[DanielTy88 133]

What happened to common sense? xD

It jumped right out the god damn window a long time ago.lol

[AIRCAV 62]

Blood bags are needed to make the game fun.

They're utterly ridiculous in terms of realism, in an environment without refrigeration.

AC

[God Dan 62]

The medical suggestions you have are a little over the top. I understand the infections. Blood bags by themselves are hard enough to get, and now you want us to get needles and sterilize them? I mean, it's a game, there is a line where it goes from being fun, and challenging to completely ridiculous. It would take out much of the fun of the game. If you want it to be completely realistic, it can't have 40% of the player shooting you when you fresh spawn. So many aspects would have to change for it to be good with these features

[janus0104 212]

The medical suggestions you have are a little over the top. I understand the infections. Blood bags by themselves are hard enough to get, and now you want us to get needles and sterilize them? I mean, it's a game, there is a line where it goes from being fun, and challenging to completely ridiculous. It would take out much of the fun of the game. If you want it to be completely realistic, it can't have 40% of the player shooting you when you fresh spawn. So many aspects would have to change for it to be good with these features

Uhm.... I don't know what servers you've been playing on, I've been shot freshly spawned like 3 times so far... And those times, whether you require more or less items to treat your wounds is utterly besides the point. You have no gear whatsoever yet. You're as good as dead.

Your opinion on fun vs challenging is fine by me, but how players behave towards each other has nothing to do with it.

[aleksiuski@gmail.com 58]

I don't think making medical situations and treatment more complex is a bad thing, after all this is a survival game and in a violent environment as zombie-apocalypse medical issues should be common problems that pose a great threat at survivors coping in the world.

As it is now, we have three: bloodloss, broken bones and infection. Blood you gain with food and bloodbags and bleeding is stopped with bandages, broken bones you deal with by morphine and infection is now trivial with antibiotics spawnin everywhere. This is a good basic system, but as it is now it is very basic and could easily be made to be something more, something larger.

There could be a multitude of diseases ravaging the populus. In addition to the current "infection" i.e. food could give you "the runs"; making you sick to your stomach (vomiting every now and then) and making you hungry and unable to digest food properly (-70% HP gains, +70% getting hungry&thirsty timer, +60% exhaustion). To battle this new medicine could be intoduced, and even some natural herbs could be collected from forests to boil some tee to remedy upset stomach (for this you'd need fire, herbs, kettle/pot/tincan) :D Add five or six diseases that you can catch from different things, add more indepth system for fixing broken bones, add concussion, strains and some other physical injuries + more complex "crafting-like" treatment process where you need to have medicine, painkillers and utilities (bandages, sticks, syringes, whatnots) and presto = good, indepth survival challenge.

Besides this I would love to see more indepth crafting system. I know a certain very lovely server that has craftable ATV's and Motorbikes (you collect parts, chunk them to pile, craft = you got your transportation). It is also possible to make it so that i.e. you can gather small value items like tincans and combine them to scrapmetal, that you can use with other stuff to build i.e. motor-part, that you can use to build a motorbike together with other parts it requires. What we need in DayZ is a multitude of "minigames"; complex-medical system, complex crafting == creates lots of activity for players, sets challenges == happy gamers.

Not to even mention environment, dropping and rising temperatures, clothing to suit the weather etc.

Smack all of this sum of complex "minigames" within dayz together, and you have a game that has: zombies and survival, environment, medical emergencies, crafting and base building, player versus player wars == EPIC WIN!

I don't believe in DAYZ as a pure pvp-game where everything else is only "minor inconvenience on my way to pvp and pwn". I believe DayZ should be hard, it should be simple to get into but beneath the surfaze there should be multitude of complex systems. A true survivor game, easy to use but hard to master (even impossible!). I do believe that PVP and perma-death is essential to DAYZ, I do like bandits and I am one myself. But to wish for dumbed down survivality to have easy pvp... such a warz idea. bad.

[RooBurger 285]

The medical suggestions you have are a little over the top. I understand the infections. Blood bags by themselves are hard enough to get, and now you want us to get needles and sterilize them? I mean, it's a game, there is a line where it goes from being fun, and challenging to completely ridiculous. It would take out much of the fun of the game

Yet the game is so popular in the first place because it breaks all the rules about what is supposed to entertain players. No one else has been brave enough to make a game like this, Rocket came in and filled that vacuum. If anything, features like this should be trialled just to see what happens.

Edited February 6, 2013 by RooBurger

[Vertisce 158]

How about the fact that said bloodbags are being picked up off the ground or out of cardboard boxes and are not being kept cold at all?

[Deetwo 69]

What happened to common sense? xD

I believe it died long ago.

[Wazza 274]

Yet the game is so popular in the first place because it breaks all the rules about what is supposed to entertain players. No one else has been brave enough to make a game like this, Rocket came in and filled that vacuum. If anything, features like this should be trialled just to see what happens.

To keep the vacuum running properly the filters need to be cleaned and changed occasionally so as not to clog it up, so i agree mate...

Also for the post title i believe spell check should also be trialled.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Wazza

[skeeter 65]

What happened to common sense? xD

that was lost many many years ago. its all downhill from here :P

edit- just noticed the post above mine with the "common sense grave marker" LMAO!

Edited February 6, 2013 by dizzmain

[maribel21 4]

Wouldn't it be cool if you got hurt in the game and suddenly surgeon simulator popped up in order for you to be healed?

Eh, no.

Don't know what it is? enjoy... http://gamejam.bossastudios.com/

[Jeremiah Cross 55]

As far as realism goes in this game concessions need to be made. While, yes I think he medical stuff could use some new additions and refinements to make it more "realistic" and, thereby, harder, it shouldn't be at the expense of fun.

I keep seeing threads where people want their toons to need sleep. What, we can't just pretend they're asleep when you're offline?

Realism is good to a point in a game like this, but there is a line.

Show of hands; how many of you can fly a helicopter, let alone repair one with scavenged parts?

[Jeremiah Cross 55]

Wouldn't it be cool if you got hurt in the game and suddenly surgeon simulator popped up in order for you to be healed?

Eh, no.

I think I would prefer to just let a Zed eat me. The results would be less grizzly.

[RooBurger 285]

I keep seeing threads where people want their toons to need sleep. What, we can't just pretend they're asleep when you're offline?

Requiring sleep makes no sense in the first place for the reason you mentioned. The game takes place in real time.

[aleksiuski@gmail.com 58]

DayZ 2017 has sleep :o It might come for standalone, who knows :)

[janus0104 212]

Requiring sleep makes no sense in the first place for the reason you mentioned. The game takes place in real time.

Nor does having to drink and eat that much. I am at this point convinced our characters aren't humans after all, we're playing aliens fighting a different race of aliens.

No human being could have a metabolism that high-functioning you have to drink 10L a day and have to eat 5kg of food a day, even when running around constantly.

The rule of threes is a good rule of thumb for human beings:

- 3 minutes without air

- 3 days without water

- 3 weeks without food

If it's meant to be in real-time, you should have symptoms of malnourishment, but not just die from not eating anytime before surviving 2 weeks (admittedly, you run around a lot).

In fact, eating more than 10 times a day you should be laying on the ground, puking your guts out.