Who Else Thinks 1.7.5.1 Pushes Annoyance and Survival Too Far?

[The Alphabeat. 16]

Please stop whining about the zombie AI. It's arma's issue, not DayZ. The community devs can only do so much. (remember that the mod is not made by rocket anymore, the community modders do it)

Across the vast and majestic gulf of time and space, the jimmies rustle softly.

[VladaNS 1]

I completly agree that we need more stronger zombies, more reactions from zombies. I wont more threat from zombies. This will help around idea that people group up more and less shoot each other on sight. If i wont to play army simulation I will pop up Arma 2 or Wasteland. If i wont zombie apocalypse simulation I will pop up DayZ.

[Sutinen 635]

The "Zed hearing should now be fixed" doesn't mean they hear better, it means the hearing is fixed. In the last patch, roads/concrete caused zombies to hear you 80 meters away, which can't be right.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Sutinen

[Mot 7]

http://www.dayzwiki....version_1.7.5.1

More complication and annoyance.

A few examples:

• Blood bags can give you an infection now
  
• Water can make you sick unless you go through a process to boil it
  
• Lots of annoyance added like when you eat canned food it puts the empty can into your inventory
  
• Meat was split up into 5 different types (more bag slots needed as a result since diff. types don't stack)
  
• Chopping wood attracts zombies
  
• Zombie AI got a boost across the board, they hear better, (hit harder?),chase better, are harder to lose etc.(but are still bugged in so many annoying ways)
  
• Zombies can damage cars and even pull players out of their cars
  
• Ammo drops nerfed drastically
  

Some of these sound cool, till you consider that zombie AI is bugged terribly to begin with and as a result zombie combat is far more luck/exploit than skill based. And the expansion of the infection/disease mechanic is just random punishment for punishment's sake.

Well I for one don't agree with many of your points, made a post recently about exactly the game being more annoying than difficult and on that I agree completely with you. But this new difficulties sounds great, this is exactly what Im looking for in this game, hard survival by adding multiple realistic aspects.

The only thing I complain about is the super zombie powers, while I accept that engine limitations require them to be able to hit me 3-4 meters away, I can't accept they can hit me through walls and walk through doors, its just completely ridiculous bug that is destroying my fun.

About them being very hard to lose, yes I agree this is annoying, they shouldn't be this hard to lose, they shouldn't have super memory and gps tracking device on players, it adds to the difficulty but it really takes away half of the fun of being able to run away and hide from them, since they know exactly where you are no matter what, it makes the game about metagaming/exploiting instead of skill and strategy, which is big big minus for this mod.

[Sutinen 635]

Oh yeah, "Zombie hearing should now be fixed", there was a good reason to put "should" in there, because it's still bugged.

[NorthWolfe 3]

This patch ruins the game.

All planing, strategy, intelligence, and survival skills, where removed. They opted to take the easy-rout, and just make the Zombies almost impossible to avoid...

It is no longer a survival game, just a stupid exercise in luck (the place you start). The only "challenge" is not to die in the first few minutes, might as well run to the wilderness and die of thirst...

As a solo player that was exploring the map, until the "official hack" killed my character, I'm finished with this crap (pardon my French).

You've got my beans.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Wolfe, adapt or just quit. Getting sick of reading the same 'boo hoo' post from you over and over, lol.

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

who here played like nearly a year ago. it was sweet then except the little bugs they have now fixed, like climbing ladders with a pistol and vehicles now fixed and a few other things. PVP was sorted because 80% of the time you know who you coult drust and not trust. but now it seems they are changing it for the worse.

[NorthWolfe 3]

Nobody is making you read them sunshine...

[Mos1ey 6301]

Just like no one is making you play the game... xD

who here played like nearly a year ago. it was sweet then except the little bugs they have now fixed, like climbing ladders with a pistol and vehicles now fixed and a few other things. PVP was sorted because 80% of the time you know who you coult drust and not trust. but now it seems they are changing it for the worse.

I'd forgotten about the ladder glitch, LOL! ...And people that started playing recently think the mod is buggy. xD

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

This patch ruins the game.

All planing, strategy, intelligence, and survival skills, where removed. They opted to take the easy-rout, and just make the Zombies almost impossible to avoid...

It is no longer a survival game, just a stupid exercise in luck (the place you start). The only "challenge" is not to die in the first few minutes, might as well run to the wilderness and die of thirst...

As a solo player that was exploring the map, until the "official hack" killed my character, I'm finished with this crap (pardon my French).

You've got my beans.

You - QQ

We - LoL

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

lol yeah back then there were so many bugs but the game was more enjoyable with co op kinda. there were less hackers as well. me and my mates really started noticing the hackers about a month after we started. if they went back to the way the game worked back then but with the bugs fixed I think it would be sweet.

[victusmortuus 1074]

lol yeah back then there were so many bugs but the game was more enjoyable with co op kinda. there were less hackers as well. me and my mates really started noticing the hackers about a month after we started. if they went back to the way the game worked back then but with the bugs fixed I think it would be sweet.

I'm only a week old bambii... how was it back then mate?

[kumando 199]

I'm not going to write a huge diatribe on the philosophy of the game, we've been through all of that before.

What I will do is posit the theory that this game, which relies on a balance between different aspects(Zombie, Survival, PvP) has been pushed too far in a certain direction.

Complication and annoyance simply for the sake of complication and annoyance are just plain silly.

Some of us love DayZ for the sandbox that it is and for the BALANCE which existed between the different aspects of the game.

This game shouldn't become CoD w/zombies anymore than it should morph into Mountain Man Simulator 2013 or Dead Island - DayZ Edition. As Rocket has stated numerous times, the player shouldn't feel "pushed" into any particular playstyle.

Unfortunately this last patch "pushes" us a lot farther into Mountain Man/Dead Island territory and I for one don't like it.

p.s. Why not add more A.I. and survival variables into the server difficulty settings to further differentiate Recruit/Regular/Veteran/Expert and give everyone a balance they feel satisfied with?

Maybe this game is not for you, try warz maybe.

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

I'm only a week old bambii... how was it back then mate?

well small bugs that are now fixed like you couldn't climb a ladder with a pistol. no vehicles or chopper spawns. some choppers were bugged and would kill u. if you saw a bandit you would run or hunt him and you knew he would hunt you if he saw u. if you saw a survivor you would be worried that he wanted to become a bandit but would like him for backup in case you got in a fire fight. there were no melee weapons but its good there is now. you spawned with a macarov and basics. to bandage you would scroll the mouse wheel. when they rocket said "you winged there were not enough zombies so here they are now stop your crying" people were running around constantly trying to stay alive and not attract zombies and they ran out of ammo, so teaming up was a good idea. there were less hackers. many other things have changed now for the better as well like heat packs and antibiotics. but some have changed for the worse.

[kumando 199]

Thinking about it I wasyn't killed by zombie since I discoverd that I can despawn them while logging off.

You cant do that anymore.

[impulse10112@hotmail.com 21]

I only have one thing to say to any change that makes the game harder on the players: Bring it on

[Meiz 3]

Just on this point, in any zombie movie I've seen, shooting it out is always the option of last resort and never, ever goes well.

Fist of all, what does that have to do with anything? Second, people shoot zombies in movies all the time. Logically in a game where you have so many guns, you're going to use them on Zeds. Primary to defend yourself from players, secondary is to defend yourself from the Zombors. Should they be a threat? Yes. Should they force you and everyone to arm the only viable weapon in the game now which is a hatchet? No. If that's the case, might as well get rid of all secondary weapons.

While they're at it, they could make it so you don't have guns, just the parts for them and you have to go looking for each piece, as well as single bullets, a field stripping kit and a manual for the corresponding firearm only to die and have to start over again.

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

Shit just got real.

Those individuals who are too weak or unable to adapt to changes in the environment shall perish.

That, ladies and gentlemen is natural selection at work, survival of the fittest.

As for the losers in this latest round of Dayz's evolution? they shall burn for eternity in endless rounds of counter strike deathmatch hell.

Edited February 5, 2013 by wabbit

[Bizzyb 9]

Youre spoiled. When I first played DayZ, I crawled around elektra avoiding zombies. A friend who had played for two weeks met up with me... Ran right by me towards fire house with a stream of zombies, then hatcheted them all.

After that I never cared about zombies again and id actually get upset when id be killing another player and a zombie would dare hit me or get in the way.

[joona.kujanen@suomi24.fi 62]

Dead island is a good game if you want to kill zombies and dont want to worry about survival aspect. Only npc humans you can kill, sorry. Or if you want more pew pew dakka dakka without any survival aspect (other than avoiding hp's to drop by zombies hits) try Left for Dead serie.

DayZ tries to bring us Survival Game with Zombies and I'm darn pleased with the current direction.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Kuikka

[theirongiant 200]

Fist of all, what does that have to do with anything? Second, people shoot zombies in movies all the time. Logically in a game where you have so many guns, you're going to use them on Zeds. Primary to defend yourself from players, secondary is to defend yourself from the Zombors. Should they be a threat? Yes. Should they force you and everyone to arm the only viable weapon in the game now which is a hatchet? No. If that's the case, might as well get rid of all secondary weapons.

Stealth more, shoot less, you're meant to avoid zombie aggro not go toe to toe with them.

[martink8190@gmail.com 149]

Vehicles: These things are incredibly rare and require a great deal to get and keep in working order. In a game where you have permadeath and are required to travel long distances, transportation should be more abundant in order to shorten downtime. They should also be far less fragile. Should you be lucky enough to locate a vehicle and repair it, that sense of accomplishment will quickly fade as you realize how much trouble and attention they require in order for you to enjoy that luxury. Personally, I'm avoiding using them altogether.

I couldn't agree more, vehicles are useless and their damage vaules are laughable. Unnecessary and annoying, loosing wheels due to ''scratching'' a fence or wall let alone case where vehicles just explode for no reason whatsoever.

Example - My buddy lost connection while on the move and even though the vehicle wasn't an offroad and thus driving it rather slow, when he got kicked out of server hes vehicle repositioned few times and than ended up in ''nearby'' trees bursting into flames.

I do however get the maintenance necessity but why always wheels? its silly. period. If anything I'd imagine on some cars its the engine that failing more often than on some others, and on another vehicle it would be...whatever, the tires getting repeatedly flat after x time.

Zeds: Since the current patch there is little to no hope of having an encounter swing in one's favor. The way the spawn system works and how they swarm now makes it so there is no reason to shoot them. By the time you've killed and dealt with one wave, another has taken its place, has been aggroed and is already at your location before you have a chance to aquire whatever it is you're there to get in the first place.

I see where you coming from and I agree that if you decide to loot for an ''extra'' ammo it makes no sense to get on and start to shoot around. What I mean is (and I need to get more playtime with current patch) making zeds aggro too much can throw the game out of balance and some task become pointless and annoying / time wasting. Ammo should be scarce thats fine but than we should, IMHO have more ways to fight them and defend our self's and before all the uber realist jump in, it is my opinion that if that's the case (as said need more play time) we should have remotely / timer detonating claymores, bouncers, C4, semtex, boobie traps you name it in THIS patch, let alone the fact that due to zeds good enough hearing, silenced weapons much more widely available. (again, ammo is different topic)

The fact they can knock you out should also be removed.

As much as I hate this lucky masculine bastards, I wouldn't want them removed. Perhaps, if anything, I should feel dizzy or something, yea I'd like that probably more.

Survival and maintenance: Things are starting to get to be too complicated with respect to achieving an end result. One example of this is the vehicles. They require too much to get working. Simplifying the repair system would allow players to enjoy the rewards of having a vehicle rather than have to spend half of its lifecycle scavenging for parts to maintain it. Another example is the recent process added to having clean water. Does it make sense? Sure. Is it adding to the player's enjoyment? That depends on the player. Personally I don't mind having to do certain things in order to accomplish an end goal but if things become more and more complicated and I'm spending the majority of my time primarily doing chores, this takes the fun out of my experience.

As it stands, this game has lost its apeal for me for the reasons I mentioned.

I've played arma for quite few years, long before dayz and I bought it for the realism / authenticity aspect, which I still like very much but while some may enjoy even more realism, for me, it's still just a game and while I do appreciate its own unique way/s, making it a lot more realistic doesnt sound that much more appealing to me either, as its still just a game.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Colonel-Wicked

[janus0104 212]

To bring this whole discussion to a common point that it keeps circling around like a dog chasing it's own tail:

There are outright bugs, glaring problems that apparently cannot be fixed, which leave us with horrible gameplay decisions that are neither fun nor rewarding, but unless someone can fix them, they'll always be at the center of discussions like these:

- AI Pathing / Obstacle behavior. No need to say more, you all know it

- AI Movement Speed and it's lack of variety, resulting in a predictability that breaks PvE and often enough turns "running away from zombies" into a marathon

- AI Spawn behavior to the point of making fun of zombie movies rather than letting you relive their best moments

- Environment bugs: the bridges that make your vehicle tilt up 90°, unresponsive gates/ladders/fuel tanks/vehicle entry and gear points, hilariously cruel object intersection from the inaccessible tent in the tree to the car that slides downhill because apparently all handbreaks are broken, Animals disappearing before you can gut them

- Lacking map with loot so predictable it's not even funny anymore, a horrible ratio from enterable buildings to mere scenery and downright death trap buildings with floors that attract the whole town's worth of zombies despite proning and no alternative exit, not even a jump through the window

- Vehicle bugs, having to fix a fuel tank for the chassis to be the good looking model, simply wrong readings on the vehicle HUD, when your chassis is damaged beyond a certain point the slightest collision explodes the car (really now, exploding cars!! stop this hollywood nonsense) rather than just breaking your wheels because the metal cuts into them, and helicopters that use the cockpit as fuel tank i guess because breaking the windows makes the fuel leak and you cant even fix the fuel tank to make it stop

- Horrible interface management, from the deliberate restrictions like not having spare tools in your inventory but they're fine in backpacks, no backpack interface unless pointing your crosshair at loot, no vehicle inventory interface, invisible container limits, items disappearing when the limit is reached or any feedback whatsoever that the container is full and no realism whatsoever in terms of what constitues as the size of an item slot

- Out of sync animations, from medical treatment to making a fireplace, and the glitchy results you get until you memorize when you need to wait for the animation to end and when you're good as soon as the goal is achieved

- No DayZ-specific options interface where one could set preferences like dropping firewood or empty tin cans onto the ground, clear labels that "VON" is side channel and "Radio" is local

- Deliberate balance between "cutting corners for video-game's sake" (i ate 20 boxes (!!) of painkillers today, how am i not in a coma?) and "semi-realistic randomness for the sake of being random", like infections with blood bags

- Unneeded items like the hatchet are found everywhere, but something as simple as a set of clothes is next to the rarest thing on the loot table. Before I get slaughtered for listing the hatchet as unneeded: The hatchet, or it's bigger brother, the fireaxe, is in real life a tool used for a multitude of purposes: Splitting wood (not felling a tree!) you either harvested or already cut apart with different tools, use it's sharp edge in place of a knive for smaller utility tasks (gut an animal?!), and making a fire when you have no matches or similar easier means to make one, it's used to remove obstacles and open doors - at least the fireaxe variety - and like everything else a human can hold in his hands it can be used as a melee weapon, though not really good. To fix the hatchet in DayZ, the following changes should be made: Gathering wood without a hatchet becomes a mousewheel option when on forest ground, give the player a different bundle of firewood though that doesnt burn as long as when done with a hatchet, but long enough for cookig meat/water. Making a fireplace is an option on the firewood, not the box of matches. Actually lighting the fireplace requires either a box of matches or a hatchet, the latter taking the current animation's time to result in fire. The hatchet can be used in place of a survival knife to gut animals, but you get less meat out of it. Make the survival knife usable for melee combat. And if you're feeling generous, give us a key to switch from current weapon to hatchet/knife, it's really not that hard and takes long enough with the freaking reload bug.

Until the big bugs in that list are fixed, all these recent changes amount to changing the camera angle while all the time looking at horse manure.

I love this game, but show me one of these bugs that can be defended as a desirable feature.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Elvaron

[Meiz 3]

Stealth more, shoot less, you're meant to avoid zombie aggro not go toe to toe with them.

How about no? How about they change the game to cater to what I was used to and what makes the most sense? I question your grasp of what one is meant to do when you're armed and have an environment full of Zeds. You're seriously telling me not to fight zombies in a game full of zombies? Really?

I don't mind a challenge but the current state of the game doesn't follow logical standards. If you're in a populated server, moving at a pace required to avoid aggro gets you dead. Anyone who's used a ranged weapon knows this. You need to be able to move in quickly to avoid being spotted, take out any stray Zeds you picked up, get what you came for and leave. If they lengthened the spawn times for the Zeds I wouldn't have a problem.

As of right now, side arms are obsolete, you need to use a hatchet and hope you don't get pinned down by some infinite stream thanks to the latest update all the while dealing with the myriad other chores you need to perform.

I mean people who are for this aren't saying a hell of a lot and certainly aren't addressing the points against this latest patch. Saying "play the game my way which will definitely get you killed and isn't fun for you" doesn't make a real solid argument.