Who Else Thinks 1.7.5.1 Pushes Annoyance and Survival Too Far?

[Rage VG 4033]

He also specifically stated a million quintillion times that he wanted the game to remain a true sandbox and he wasn't (allegedly) going to force anyone too far in the direction of a specific playstyle.

You can be brutal as hell and still maintain a balance so that players don't feel pushed too far in one direction. (p.s. the A.I in DayZ is laughably bad. The only challenge at all is the fact that zombies are bugged to shit. This makes zombies "annoying" rather than "challenging". Adding to the "annoyance" factor without fixing the A.I. to make it truly "challenging" is a terrible mistake. And defending bugged out, easy to fool A.I as "Brutal" makes your argument seem pretty hollow.

Regardless, the devs added Recruit/Regular/Veteran/Expert options for a reason. The devs should make better use of them by actually making them relevant beyond mere aesthetics so that everyone who loves DayZ(even the faux hardcore people) can find a server they enjoy playing on.

I'm still seeing no reasons from you why any of those updates are super game-breaking in any way. Like I said, they might it slightly harder at most.

And I've never once even mentioned bugged out AI in my post. The bugged AI does make them more annoying than fearsome, but that has hardly anything to do with any of the updates besides the hearing, which was a bug fix.

Also, you can easily play on servers that are on the last patch if that's what you prefer, on all difficulties. You're not forced to play it.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Rage VG

[jrtjmiller@bigpond.com 20]

I'm loving this new patch. Kind of reminds me of the first couple of months after the mod was first released.

You have to team up, watch your ammo count, don't fire unless you really really have too,watch your corners, don't run, etc, etc.

The only thing that has pissed me off are script kiddies can stil get in.

Again, love it!!!!!

[beno_83au 11]

• Blood bags can give you an infection now
  
• Water can make you sick unless you go through a process to boil it
  
• Lots of annoyance added like when you eat canned food it puts the empty can into your inventory
  
• Meat was split up into 5 different types (more bag slots needed as a result since diff. types don't stack)
  
• Chopping wood attracts zombies
  
• Zombie AI got a boost across the board, they hear better, (hit harder?),chase better, are harder to lose etc.
  
• Zombies can damage cars and even pull players out of their cars
  
• Ammo drops nerfed drastically
  

Wasn't going to try it out tonight (had other games/tv planned) but seeing examples like this more and more, how can I not play?

Can't wait.

[Rage VG 4033]

I'm loving this new patch. Kind of reminds me of the first couple of months after the mod was first released.

You have to team up, watch your ammo count, don't fire unless you really really have too,watch your corners, don't run, etc, etc.

The only thing that has pissed me off are script kiddies can stil get in.

Again, love it!!!!!

Go to a whitelisted server

scriddies-b-gone.

[Saethkept 134]

I just have to say ... bring it on.

I love the changes. The feeling of reward - to start with nothing, outnumbered scores, hundreds, thousands to one; all alone and with only you to rely on; and surviving long enough to carve out a small niche let alone find vehicles, etc. - is amazing. Some gamers love features to tinker with and lots of them. DayZ is a survival simulator. Now let's go do it - survive.

[-Se7eN- 874]

Personally i think the game is designed to be hard, im all up for them trying to make it harder!

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

You know what I think? I think that if you want to shoot other players that much, Find a different game. Or learn to play this one a whole fucking lot better than you currently do.

You can still kill other players. That hasn't changed. It's still just as easy to shoot another player in the back. Or snipe them at long range.

The only difference now, is that the zombies are a hell of a lot harder. So you have to actually do some WORK to kill other people. You have to actually play the game rather than sprint through a town. Get used to it. It's survival, not 'PvP with zombies'.

Pretty sure from your response that you haven't read or understood anything after the title of the main post.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Diz

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

Personally i think the game is designed to be hard, im all up for them trying to make it harder!

It's not really harder. I've run around all over the place doing the same stuff I normally do and it's just as easy, the only difference is it's *more annoying*.

Challenge is fun, but adding annoyance for the sake of annoyance is not.

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

I just have to say ... bring it on.

I love the changes. The feeling of reward - to start with nothing, outnumbered scores, hundreds, thousands to one; all alone and with only you to rely on; and surviving long enough to carve out a small niche let alone find vehicles, etc. - is amazing. Some gamers love features to tinker with and lots of them. DayZ is a survival simulator. Now let's go do it - survive.

Here's another player who apparently choses to ignore the fact that the game has THREE pillars: Survival, Zombies and PvP.

Balance, balance, balance. What's so hard about this concept?

[Rage VG 4033]

Here's another player who apparently choses to ignore the fact that the game has THREE pillars: Survival, Zombies and PvP.

Well, no...

Survival is a part of both PvE ("Zombies") and PvP. If either one of those didn't exist, it would not stand up on its own, so it's not a "pillar".

PvE would be the entire environment. Weather, Disease, Zombies, Climate... This is all PvE and is one HALF of the game.

PvP is of course PvP. Nobody needs clarification on that. That is one HALF of the game.

However, They were not treated as equal halves. It was ALL PvP. If you got a car, zombies were literally a non-issue. You geared up, ran into the forest to safely stuff yourself with meat and water, went north and killed other players within 2-3 hours. There is next to no form of PvE in that at all.

As it stands there is hardly any "surviving" being done, just slaying. If all you want to do is kill other people and don't care for the whole "survival" malarkey, Play ARMA. It's not even a different game.

Balance, balance, balance. What's so hard about this concept?

I think you have a terrible concept of "balance" if you think that it's balanced if half of the game meant nothing. All of the changes were improvements, the only time they would be considered an annoyance is when all you care about is getting up north to kill people ASAP. Sorry to break it to you, but that's not what it's all about and we, the rest of the DayZ community, wanted changes like this.

What we have here, in fact, is just you accusing players of ignorance whenever they mention the part of the game you want to ignore (Someone makes a post talking about survival and not PvP? They're clearly ignorant!) instead of actually giving us valid reasons why they are bad changes, besides a list of changes you don't like (That happens to be either grossly inaccurate or flat-out lies in some parts), or telling us that these changes annoy you.

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

so has there been any change to the hackers who sit in chern or electro sniping new spawns? or has there been a change for the people who get bored of killing a few thousands zombies and surviving for weeks who decide they will just PVP from now on like they are playing COD. I think PVPers need to be looked at. if someone kills alot of people their mental health is effected. for all of you people who think they could kill someone easy and not get effected your an idiot. Thousands of soldiers I have worked with and who are employed in the defence force are trained to kill and they get effected. The higher the PVP count maybe the more their weapon shakes or the less they hear. unless they get medication for it just like real life.

Sorry I have not kept up with the latest since I left the army and dont have my computer with me in my new place

[Deetwo 69]

Honestly, if some players truly just want survival and PvP without the annoyance of buggy zombies, you're simply better off waiting for R4Z0R49 and ayan4m1's (creator of Bliss) new survival mod, which appears to be just that.

This way, we can all stop arguing about something that probably won't be changed either way and both parties can still enjoy the game they were attracted to in the first place.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Deetwo

[Rage VG 4033]

so has there been any change to the hackers who sit in chern or electro sniping new spawns? or has there been a change for the people who get bored of killing a few thousands zombies and surviving for weeks who decide they will just PVP from now on like they are playing COD. I think PVPers need to be looked at. if someone kills alot of people their mental health is effected. for all of you people who think they could kill someone easy and not get effected your an idiot. Thousands of soldiers I have worked with and who are employed in the defence force are trained to kill and they get effected. The higher the PVP count maybe the more their weapon shakes or the less they hear. unless they get medication for it just like real life.

Sorry I have not kept up with the latest since I left the army and dont have my computer with me in my new place

All of the changes have had nothing to do with PvP, moreso to do with what PvPers would simply refer to as "Gearing up". They made Infection much more of a thing, made some logical decisions such as zombies no longer have heart-attacks when they find you in a car, and a few bug fixed. Also, a new HUd which is apparently friendly to color-blind players.

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

This actually touches on the fact that zombies currently are not fun or satisfying to encounter. They are merely an obstacle. An annoyance. They provide a "gate" between the player and the rest of the content.

It's not a question of "are they too difficult or easy" it's a question of "are they implemented correctly both thematically and technically" and the answer to both is NO.

Therefore, actually fixing the bugged out zombie A.I. to make them legitimately challenging and compelling rather than just making the existing bugged zombies more "annoying" would be a better solution.(maybe this is beyond the scope of what Rocket et al care to do for the mod but I certainly hope this is addressed in SA).

I'm all for challenge, I just don't like annoyance for annoyance's sake.

good post mate.

I think stronger zombies would be good. like now you run through a town attract all the zombies. the run in a store and hack them all down with a hatchet. and clear the building. BORING!. imagine your thinking of doing that but at the same time your thinking fuck I hope there isn't a Hive breeder here or something. then out of the blue he comes charging at you in a craze and you think ahh shit this one will take a few head shots to kill and hits bloody hard. Of course these hard zonbies would drop no loot. If they dropped good loot then people would want to farm them

[Unrustled jimmies 11]

Please stop whining about the zombie AI. It's arma's issue, not DayZ. The community devs can only do so much. (remember that the mod is not made by rocket anymore, the community modders do it)

[The Alphabeat. 16]

I just googled Mountain Man Simulator 2013 because it sounds awesome.

LOL SAME

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

Please stop whining about the zombie AI. It's arma's issue, not DayZ. The community devs can only do so much. (remember that the mod is not made by rocket anymore, the community modders do it)

how can the Zombie AI issue be with arma when arma doesn't have zombies. the day Z mod has zombies which would mean its a dayZ issue

[w.westhoeve@hotmail.com 5]

Zombies are indeed fucking annoying and so incredibly glitched in any possible way.

Anyway this patch certainly won't stop you from getting geared in 15 minutes anyway.

I'm actually chuckling when I'm thinking of the glitchy way the zombies are going to hit you in cars and pull you from them.

Because obviously it adds a whole new dimention in which zombies can glitch the shit out of you.

[VladaNS 1]

how can the Zombie AI issue be with arma when arma doesn't have zombies. the day Z mod has zombies which would mean its a dayZ issue

Man zombies in DayZ are soldiers and civilians from Arma2. Devs just change speed and skin and put blood on them. Since DayZ is Arma 2 MOD .... repeat MOD, and since in Arma 2 there is no zombies, zombies in DayZ is not real zombies. When you shoot zombies you probably notice human voices. You probably notice how zombies zig zaging when they run. That how soldiers move in Arma 2 to avoid being shoot. When they release standalone Dayz, u can expect real zombies.

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

well of course but at the moment they are zombies in the mod. the mod is dayz for arma 2. that means the dayz mod makes the zombies what they are. they can be changed in many ways still

[Meiz 3]

This game is moving towards being more annoying than rewarding. The latest patch kind of pushed things past the point where I'm enjoying myself. I'll run through the problems I have with the current experience as it stands with the DayZ mod.

Vehicles: These things are incredibly rare and require a great deal to get and keep in working order. In a game where you have permadeath and are required to travel long distances, transportation should be more abundant in order to shorten downtime. They should also be far less fragile. Should you be lucky enough to locate a vehicle and repair it, that sense of accomplishment will quickly fade as you realize how much trouble and attention they require in order for you to enjoy that luxury. Personally, I'm avoiding using them altogether.

Zeds: Since the current patch there is little to no hope of having an encounter swing in one's favor. The way the spawn system works and how they swarm now makes it so there is no reason to shoot them. By the time you've killed and dealt with one wave, another has taken its place, has been aggroed and is already at your location before you have a chance to aquire whatever it is you're there to get in the first place. The fact they can knock you out should also be removed. The key to a good game is giving someone a fighting chance, not making them suffer because of some random bullshit. Zombies are already buggy, have the ability to attack/walk/aggro through objects. Implementing the ability for them to swarm was premature and obtuse. If a player is spending more resources than he is receiving in order to deal with any and every encounter, this is problematic.

Survival and maintenance: Things are starting to get to be too complicated with respect to achieving an end result. One example of this is the vehicles. They require too much to get working. Simplifying the repair system would allow players to enjoy the rewards of having a vehicle rather than have to spend half of its lifecycle scavenging for parts to maintain it. Another example is the recent process added to having clean water. Does it make sense? Sure. Is it adding to the player's enjoyment? That depends on the player. Personally I don't mind having to do certain things in order to accomplish an end goal but if things become more and more complicated and I'm spending the majority of my time primarily doing chores, this takes the fun out of my experience.

As it stands, this game has lost its apeal for me for the reasons I mentioned.

[VladaNS 1]

well of course but at the moment they are zombies in the mod. the mod is dayz for arma 2. that means the dayz mod makes the zombies what they are. they can be changed in many ways still

Devs of DayZ are limited by Arma 2 engine and this engine does not have any scripts and algorithms for Zombies. As i already told... yes we all love zombies but in DayZ mod we actually just imagin that we fight Vs zombies :-)... Until standalone version hit the reallity.

Edited February 5, 2013 by VladaNS

[spawn (DayZ) 217]

who remembered when they increased the zombies by like 10 times the current amount. I remember I was scared to go to the army camp near balota airfield (I dunno the spelling) the zombies were much more sensitive as well and you were dying all the time from zombies even if you had an automatic weapon and tons of rounds cos the zombies would keep coming from all around. me and my 3 or 4 mates at the time I was playing with was like this is good. the PVPers were not shooting anyone they see because they knew they would be swarmed with zombies so that stopped that. but it also made us want to team up. we met a few other guys and say hey we need your help. we can all get weapons but there are so many zombies now and we need more people to take them out. this lasted for a few days b4 rocket reduced them again

anyways this was a good choice. If they did that now I think the game would be much harder and the PVP campers would be more careful and have more of a situation awareness of when they shoot someone because they know they will get swarmed

Edited February 5, 2013 by spawn

[disorder 344]

how can the Zombie AI issue be with arma when arma doesn't have zombies. the day Z mod has zombies which would mean its a dayZ issue

This is correct, the DayZ mod actually uses its own state management system for Z control.

Man zombies in DayZ are soldiers and civilians from Arma2. Devs just change speed and skin and put blood on them. Since DayZ is Arma 2 MOD .... repeat MOD, and since in Arma 2 there is no zombies, zombies in DayZ is not real zombies. When you shoot zombies you probably notice human voices. You probably notice how zombies zig zaging when they run. That how soldiers move in Arma 2 to avoid being shoot. When they release standalone Dayz, u can expect real zombies.

Only slightly correct, the models are new, the animations were done by Rocket. The original arma AI is not used at all. Soldiers were not skinned to make the z's as far as I'm aware.

Edited February 5, 2013 by disorder

[theirongiant 200]

Zeds: Since the current patch there is little to no hope of having an encounter swing in one's favor. The way the spawn system works and how they swarm now makes it so there is no reason to shoot them. By the time you've killed and dealt with one wave, another has taken its place, has been aggroed and is already at your location before you have a chance to aquire whatever it is you're there to get in the first place. The fact they can knock you out should also be removed. The key to a good game is giving someone a fighting chance, not making them suffer because of some random bullshit. Zombies are already buggy, have the ability to attack/walk/aggro through objects. Implementing the ability for them to swarm was premature and obtuse. If a player is spending more resources than he is receiving in order to deal with any and every encounter, this is problematic.

Just on this point, in any zombie movie I've seen, shooting it out is always the option of last resort and never, ever goes well.