Derision & Scorn - Can We Make A Fresh Start?

[esaciar 1]

Are we truly the burgeoning community that this fantastic test mod deserves? Regardless of where we all came from, we are all here because we wish to be and we should be in this together. We owe it to Rocket, to BI, to the game we all love and to ourselves to get these problems ironed out. But we can only do that by working together and sharing dialogue coherently, cohesively and sensibly.

I am most certainly in that distinct camp others would call "fanboys" and I freely admit that - I make no apologies for it. I think that these guys have done a truly fantastic job. The sheer work, slog and effort they have endured to bring us something this impressive, even in the earliest stages, is nothing short of a magnificent achievement.

We are all guilty of being dismissive of one another, in one way or another. But some of our comments, from both sides, are nothing short of childish squabbling and rather barbed insinuations about the content on one another's character.

On one side, we 'fanboys' should not be under the illusion that we, in any way, have any 'right of ownership' to this mod. We can be proud of the fact that we were there at the beginning; that we have watched this mod grow and have been - in some form - integral to the inception of the concept in it's evolving form.

On the other side, we have those who would refer to themselves as casual gamers. Their experience may have been 'Left 4 Dead' or 'CoD' or 'Battlefield' and whilst I am in no way suggesting that is their ONLY gaming experience, there will exist posters on this forum, new to this mod, who possess that history. This is a mod far removed from those concepts. This is a game that has a right to preserve the integrity it has thus far developed and not be swayed by an industry that has long been stagnant.

Mods, as far as I am concerned, are the spearhead of ingenuity in gaming - communities developing games together without the red-tape or the outside interests getting in the way.

I have been guilty of wanting to keep this from 'outsiders' to stop them from 'diluting' the core concepts that I have enjoyed since this mod came to my attention. This is a game I have been waiting for during many years now and, ridiculously, I seem to think I can stop anyone from taking that away from me.

The reality is that I can't. This game will evolve; it will develop according to a diverse community that has every right to find a collective identity.

But we need some dialogue. We need to afford one another the respect to preserve this as a 'discussion forum' as there is little discussion here lately. We deride one another and heap scorn upon tentatively suggested ideas as though we had witnessed an indignant crime.

We are participating in an Alpha Test. A bloody good Alpha Test at that. There will be suggestions...some will be odd, some creative, some naturally intuitive, some that upset one side or another and some that are posted purely to provoke.

We will find bugs, we will have glitches, we will disagree about hue, contrast and the ambient sounds of a forest. We will find things difficult, we might even question the logic of a decision the developers make. But that is part of the process. We feedback, we share, we DISCUSS. We have a clear set of issues and suggestions and the devs take that on board, feed back and continue doing what they do best.

What we currently have is unhealthy, uncompromising and devoid of any intellectual value. It is failing to achieve what was intended.

Let's enjoy it, revel in it and feel a part of something that has so much exciting potential. It's not finished - in reality, it's not even close. So shape the destiny of this mod by establishing a cordial, open and reciprocal dialogue.

Don't make threads that descend into vitriolic derision - especially not as regards to the developers who are trying their bloody damn hardest to please 250,000 people with conflicting opinions on where THEIR game should go.

This is a game that is in the very early stages yet is still remarkable in conception and delivery. The potential for community input is huge and I, personally, am thoroughly excited to be a part of this even in the tenuously associative manner of a player...you should be too.

It obviously makes people passionate...hell, that's the reaction Rocket and his team want to see, I'm sure. But some of the sheer venom I have seen here, about a mod which is FREE and not yet out of an infancy, is simply ridiculous - FROM BOTH SIDES.

I don't care if you think I'm being a pompous git or an interfering, condescending busybody who uses the internet as a mouthpiece because he feels useless in the real world. Theorise that, if it makes you feel better. Suggest it, should the urge take you.

It's bollocks. But knock yourself out.

All I want is to be part of a community that has a vision and a commitment to a fantastic mod. I'm sure you all do too.

Let the trolling begin...

[Alex988 9]

thats a lot of words

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

A good post, everyone needs to calm down, turn their brains on and work together.

[Gravelsack 3]

I find your rational plea for mutual respect offensive!

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Can't we all just get along? The zeds are the enemy, not each other!

[TheGoldElite 0]

Agreed, rocket and everyone have put a lot of hard work into this, giving this for free, who are we to complain.

[esaciar 1]

I'm sure they are perfectly fine on hearing the negatives we highlight. They wouldn't have it any other way as nothing would be improved if we lived with rose tinted glasses and saw the mod as instantly perfect.

But there exist ways and means of establishing your point and inviting a response.

We, as a community in the majority, currently lack the capacity to do that consistently enough.

[clever 12]

It's easy to say that we should all get along, but in reality it's not going to happen. The community will continue to go in a downward spiral as issues arise, and different player's from different backgrounds fight with each other. I honestly see either the forum turning into the equivalent of the Minecraft forums (Seriously, don't ever go there.), or just being shitty in general. But then again, I'm not very optimistic in most situations so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[esaciar 1]

I am making an effort to be open to any suggestions and opinions. If I were not, it would rather blunt my own assertions.

[changrey 2]

Sir, I would kindly ask that you take your rational thought and sensibility to real life, it does not belong on the interwebs.

Actually it does... Can we please stop demanding that this and that idea should never be posted or that this and that person is retarded for having another opinion? My main hope at the moment is that Rocket can ignore the majority of our opinions and focus on creating the mod HE wants. This is his vision and especially during this alpha stage we are all just following along, helping whereever we can.

All suggestions, those that makes this mod ridiculously difficult, slow, realistic, casual, fast, loud or whatever are viable and deserve their due debate. Don't put down the poster and keep things chilled and diplomatic.

Disagreements are good, because they fuel change and progress. But what really matters is the vision of the developers, not ours. None of us have the right to say "this idea sucks" because we have not seen it in-game and we can never know for certain how it might affect our enjoyment of DayZ.

[mrperson666 0]

I just find it laughable that so many "hardcore" players are trying to make out that the current 1.7.1 update isn't broken. That in fact, it's a great improvement having super-senstive multi-spawning zombies in pitch blackness.

Must of us lightweight "pussy" players, as I've been called, aren't asking for any great changes to the core of the game. We LIKED the game a lot. We're just pointing out problems with the new 1.7.1 update. (I've played 70+ hours worth in the last two weeks, but apparently I count as casual because I wasn't there from the start and have enjoyed L4D in the past. Shame on me.)

[Wired 1]

Well said, good sir. *slow clap*

[Sgt_Thief 0]

The problem with wanting everyone to interact coherently and more or less respectfully is no one has to behave, no one has to be respectful, there's no consequence for attacking people for no reason(verbally in this case). Until people grow up and stop acting like a snarling monkeys tossing their crap at anyone in range because he's anonymous and can get away with it, good luck.

With that being said I would be incredibly impressed if this community could form some measure of civil interaction and for the most part discourage abusive or disrespectful behavior towards each other, after all we don't have to like each other, we just have to deal with each other.

I've got no ideas as to how to do that though.

[exile166 3]

Well said sir.

[Anemia (DayZ) 0]

There are forums that actually manage to achieve this, on this forum though I personally think some artificial manners would be great. In my personal opinion, if the members can't act in a fairly well mannered way I think that the moderators should temp/perma ban those people so the forum either gets rid of them or they learn that they wont be able act like that on this forum. While it's not optimal I think it's better than to just hope that people will change.

[esaciar 1]

As long as we can reach a tentative concensus, I believe we can move forward on this...

[rotekz 18]

Unfortunately feedback, when negative, is too often dismissed as complaining.

You have to understand that negative feedback is also allowed. There are far too many defensive postings from people that are unable to tolerate criticism of certain features or builds.

[changrey 2]

Too true rotekz. Negative critique is one of the most important factors in improving any product, but not everyone are capable of taking it well (I'm one of them :P).

I would personally welcome a more aggressive approach from the forum moderators/admins, but for that to work we need a solid set of rules that they, and we, can refer to.

Perhaps we can push the culture on this forum a little in the right direction. A more civilized atmosphere would also help alot in getting some meaningful feedback to the devs. I hope.

[esaciar 1]

Excellent posts fellas. Much appreciated.

[i wub pugs 16]

Unfortunately feedback' date=' when negative, is too often dismissed as complaining.

You have to understand that negative feedback is also allowed. There are far too many defensive postings from people that are unable to tolerate criticism of certain features or builds.

[/quote']

It should be allowed, but we have a lot of people here that either lack the ability or will to put useful negative feedback into any sort of coherent form.

That's why it looks like complaining.

Christ, how many threads on the same topic do we have on X Y and Z topics that get started within moments of each other? People can't even be bothered to scan the forum let alone use the search function.

Instead we just get rants and moaning in multiple threads over and over.

It's laziness and immaturity, but hey, it's what we have.:rolleyes:

[esaciar 1]

It's what we have, but it can be do much more...surely?

If we want a forum to reflect our passion for this game, surely we have the intention to promote that amicably?

[i wub pugs 16]

I'm all for being amicable, but I mean I've come up with actual mechanics for suggestions and tried to create a discussion about those mechanics and a number of people got on board and we started trying to refine those mechanics and we came up with some really solid ideas.

That sounds great right? Well after my OP the first 5 comments were "this is fucking stupid, you are a moron" etc, etc, despite the fact that after like 5 pages I along with like 10 other people came up with solid and implementable mechanics to remove the indicators and replace them with audio visual queues. Towards the end of the thread we were still getting "this is fucking stupid, you are a moron".

This is the internet, anyone and everyone can be as big of a tool as they want and there will never be a recourse.

What is amazing to me is that people may actually think someone is going to take them seriously when they post stuff like "This is bullshit, wtf are you thinking when you put shit like this in the game?".

Personally I have no hope for this "community" as a forum. I do have hope for the mod as it has a headstrong developer and solid support from BIS. I'll continue to put around here and draw the ire of some and the applause of others, I really just come to see what updates are cooking.

Wanna know what the real problem with Day Z is? The community as a whole needs it to fit in one of the boxes they've been groomed to have to play in. Not saying Day Z is a revelation, no it's not, but it doesn't fit in a box yet so people are confused. People are trying to impress the box they want on it, like Deathmatch or Gun Grinding or Questing or whatever. Well, Day Z is an infant and it doesn't have a box to fit in yet so stand the fuck by and wait it out, or do what most do on this forum and moan about everything.

[Sgt_Thief 0]

Perhaps if the more mature/constructive members of the forum started defending each other and/or start making it clear that immaturity isn't welcome/tolerated here some progress could be made. Encourage honest disagreements but discourage immature behavior when possible.

Encouraging Civil behavior and putting thought in to your posts also needs to be done, contrary to seemingly popular belief this isn't a chat room/instant messenger, this is a forum, while not a huge difference we should aim for higher standards, or at least some standards to start with.

And as others have suggested a moderator crackdown on abusive(flaming, trolling and the like) and destructive behavior in the DayZ sections at least could help, but clearly defined rules would need to be made before that would be a good idea.

Hopefully this goes somewhere. Thoughts? Am I crazy for wanting this to work? 6*6+6?!?

[Latros 1]

Well written sir.

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

Its all very well saying that negative feedback is perceived as winging. But lets be honest its the way people say it.

If everyone took a step back, thought up some real arguments and expressed them in a rational way....

Oh wait this is the internet what am I saying :(