Clips, Magazines, CLIPAZINES

[Very Ape 748]

"It doesn't matter when it was suggested if the idea is the same. The reason there are so many repeats is because of the mentality of "if it's more than a week old, it's outdated and doesn't represent my perfectly original idea at all"

DId you read this part of my post? Refresh the idea. Add some discussion to it. You may not be aware of this, but when you reply to something it gets moved to the top of the forum so people see it and it isn't dead anymore.

And some of those threads aren't exactly what you talked about. But they still relate, and the idea can still be applied to them. (And to be fair, those were the very first results I found, had I gone through the 5 pages I'm sure I could have found more similar for you).

I like that you have added thought and depth to it. It's more than most people do. But you don't need a new topic to add depth and thought to a suggestion.

Most people don't bother with the replies, they read the OP. That's where the action is.

These complaints were unnecessary, given the ammo box suggestion, which frankly is awesome.

I can imagine ammo boxes being a good incentive for players to appoint someone responsible for munitions, and divide up their ammo between themselves. With any luck, ammo will be scarce in standalone and players will have to micro-manage their ammunition. :D

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Well let me see how big my ammo can is real quick...

10" x 3-1/2" x 7

for metric, that would be

25cm x 8.9 x 17.78

so there you go

yeah, that would leave room for other things too. especially if you got some other backbag than coyote, or have 4 slot section inside the backbag(open backbag) where you can choose to put either the ammobox, or an extra pistol etc. etc.

[battle-snail 1]

the suggestions were certainly already made, but noone explained the idea as good as he did! so stop crying!

[Happymrsnowman 52]

Oh! To give you a point of refence on that ammo can I have and what it can hold: Currently I have in it:

500 rounds of 9mm

1 brick (500 rounds) of .22LR

and about 3 boxes (20 rounds each) of 7.62x39

They're pretty crammed, the 500 9mm are loose, the .22 is kinda not applicable since there is no .22 gun in the game. So lets say it's about 3 more little boxes of 7.62x39. So that'd be 6 boxes total for 120 rounds total (4 mags worth). The ammo is definitely not easily accessible, its piled in there so it'd take me some time if I were loading mags. On the other hand, I could stack a decent amount of magazines in here. I'm not sure, maybe 5 AK mags or so. I'll try it out later. The box is fucking heavy. Probably about 25-30 lbs.

We already know the dimensions. I just tried putting it in my camping backpack. No problem, takes up about the same amt of room as like 4-5 cans of food. So, there ya go, point of reference.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Oh! To give you a point of refence on that ammo can I have and what it can hold: Currently I have in it:

500 rounds of 9mm

1 brick (500 rounds) of .22LR

and about 3 boxes (20 rounds each) of 7.62x39

They're pretty crammed, the 500 9mm are loose, the .22 is kinda not applicable since there is no .22 gun in the game. So lets say it's about 3 more little boxes of 7.62x39. So that'd be 6 boxes total for 120 rounds total (4 mags worth). The ammo is definitely not easily accessible, its piled in there so it'd take me some time if I were loading mags. On the other hand, I could stack a decent amount of magazines in here. I'm not sure, maybe 5 AK mags or so. I'll try it out later. The box is fucking heavy. Probably about 25-30 lbs.

We already know the dimensions. I just tried putting it in my camping backpack. No problem, takes up about the same amt of room as like 4-5 cans of food. So, there ya go, point of reference.

indeed, would be a damn nice addition. not to mention people might not even carry that much shit in it, maybe 100-200 9mm rounds and 90-150 7,62 short or long rounds.

[Happymrsnowman 52]

indeed, would be a damn nice addition. not to mention people might not even carry that much shit in it, maybe 100-200 9mm rounds and 90-150 7,62 short or long rounds.

Yeah, that's kind of what my point is. The way things are currently, ammo kinda takes up more room than it should, especially with respect to shotgun cartridges, pistol rounds, etc. The only problem I could see with this would be ridiculous stockpiling of ammo. Since some ammo is quite common, a player could easily walk around with 12 AK mags, all tucked into ONE ammo box. That doesn't mean he'd necessarily have it all available at once, but it still means scavenging for ammo would not be a priority.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Yeah, that's kind of what my point is. The way things are currently, ammo kinda takes up more room than it should, especially with respect to shotgun cartridges, pistol rounds, etc. The only problem I could see with this would be ridiculous stockpiling of ammo. Since some ammo is quite common, a player could easily walk around with 12 AK mags, all tucked into ONE ammo box. That doesn't mean he'd necessarily have it all available at once, but it still means scavenging for ammo would not be a priority.

yup, less ammo in overall with most of it as loose, or same amount of it, but most of it as loose ammo and scattered over larger areas would fix that nicely.

[Jonsse 69]

New to DayZ and was searching the forums if this suggestion had already been addressed. Fairly well put my good sir, this was roughly the same concern I first found when I first tried this awesome mod, that and the erratic zombie pathing.

I'd like to start by adding something that not everyone realizes: There are 8 different types of ammunition in use in DayZ, only 8. That's the variety of different barrel sizes in the game. 2 of which are specialty ammunition for Shotguns and for the sniper rifles. So that leaves 6 different bullets used for the 34 different weapons available in the game, not counting the m107 and AS50 which both use the same bullet and Shotguns which all use the same shot. Some of them use a slightly different variant for example Lee Enfield uses a older version of the 7.61x51mm NATO bullet, but they're practically interchangeable. Yet the magazines are the thing you need for your weapon, not the bullets. Best of these is the 9mm bullet which all of the submachine guns use and most of the handguns. This is something that's not just a good idea, it's imperative that the game has this function. Without it, it just doesn't merit the designation: realistic zombie survival. And hopefully it will be in by the time the game goes retail.(I'm counting american and russian guns separately because soviet guns don't use the NATO rounds, they're slightly shorter cartridges even though the bullet caliber is the same. With just caliber the number would be 6)

The clip needs to be an entity of its own, like what they're doing for the weapons in the upcoming standalone alpha, something as important as the gun. Bullets shouldn't be abundant either, finding bullets should be uncommon at best, and finding extra clips should be very rare. All guns could have one clip that is bound to them to prevent offsetting finding clips vs. finding just guns(which could also be balanced by just adding a lot of different handguns to the game( Luger \o/ ))

Scopes and other attachables could also be entities of their own. Finding a night vision scope for a sniper rifle would be super awesome and super rare. Or even better an IR scope. And you could strip those off the weapon you find and attach it to your own weapon, with some restrictions of course. A combat knife could also be implemented so any rifle could also be a melee weapon.

Sniper rifles usually have specialized ammunition though, the caliber might be the same with the other rifles, but the casing might not. They could and should be very specific and also very rare. There should be some decision in your head before you shoot someone with the M107 or AS50 whether or not it's worth to spend that bullet right now on that random target. It is a survival game after all, not Unreal Tournament zombie edition.

That's the few aspects I can think of right now to improve the game. After reading some of the dev blog for DayZ I'm confident they will eventually build an epic zombie survival MMO. Emphasis on survival. People who play the game should give out their ideas, as long as they articulate them as well as Happymrsnowman did. The developers do nothing with suggestions like "i want more gunz in dayz"

Edited December 12, 2012 by Jonsse

[Very Ape 748]

The clip needs to be an entity of its own, like what they're doing for the weapons in the upcoming standalone alpha, something as important as the gun. Bullets shouldn't be abundant either, finding bullets should be uncommon at best, and finding extra clips should be very rare. All guns could have one clip that is bound to them to prevent offsetting finding clips vs. finding just guns(which could also be balanced by just adding a lot of different handguns to the game( Luger \o/ ))

Agreed! I'd like to see players actually worry about their ammunition, and scavenge with desperate hope of finding more.

Your first thought before shooting a random survivor should be, will I have enough bullets left over after this to survive the onslaught of zombies I'm about to attract? That's assuming, of course, they make zombies the harbingers of death and destruction they need to have been to wipe out civilization.

[Average Pegasus 646]

Have my bean Sir. If we ad this to the game it would make it soo much harder and fun!

But I have an idea for went you find a mag. It should be empty or amost empty like it was use by somebody.

Soo you will have to find a mag and an ammo boxe.

[Happymrsnowman 52]

I think the way sniper rifles are currently set up, they're very rare, and the ammo isn't much better. The CZ-550 is a bastard to actually locate, and while its ammo isn't horribly rare, for the rarer rifles, their mags are already very very rare. I think if duping was fixed and ghosting/farming wasn't an option, then sniper rifles wouldn't be considered OP since there would be less of them. If you think about how often you ACTUALLY come across a true sniper rifle its not that often.

[Froddoyo 1]

I think having a more simple system would be better.

lets say you have have some clips, after reloading and popping zombies and a couple of survivors you got these.

ak mag. 25 rounds

ak mag. 10 rounds

ak mag. 5 rounds

ak mag. 28 rounds

Total rounds: 68

So you have a bunch of unorganized clips. WHAT IF, just.. follow me here. what if a person could right click the mag and simply click "Organize ammo" The character than does his animation for 5 seconds. then bam you then have

ak mag. 30 rounds

ak mag. 30 rounds

ak mag. 8 rounds

Total rounds: 68

simple.

[TG ! Jimmy 216]

They're pretty crammed, the 500 9mm are loose, the .22 is kinda not applicable since there is no .22 gun in the game.

I'll try to stay on-topic with my reply, which isn't going to be easy considering how many minor points we could spin this into. Moving on: I like the ammo tin idea--I also think it's semi feasible in the given DayZ apocalyptic scenario. We are assuming this is a semi rural area (hunters, sportsman, people who have weapons handy) that could be scavenged. Continuing on that idea, we have military bases nearby where more weapons and supplies are (and should be) readily accessible. It only stands to reason that there would be ammunition containers at these locations, and perhaps even in some civilian houses. I'd even go as far as #10 cans of food, generators that could be fueled, and houses that could be fortified--but let's save that talk for now.

I do agree with you, but I'll add my .02 and try to keep it fairly compact. I'd argue that there *should* be .22 caliber weapons handy, and more of them. Thinking simply of more common calibers to keep things fun and semi-realistic in the given scenario. The AS50 being incredibly rare makes sense--but pistols in .22 and 9mm I would argue are some of the most common weapons worldwide. Of course there are hundreds of calibers, makers, and variants out there--but simply speaking, there's simply too many to conceivably use in a game. Adding common calibers that you could 'expect' to find in the scenario would make the game fun to those who are paying attention to the weapon details. .22, 9mm, .45acp, 12gauge, 5.56(.223), 7.62(.308) are the first that come to mind for most people, as they are arguably some of the most popular today. Making weapons available in these calibers just seems to make sense. I'll go as far as to call guns like revolvers novelty items, simply because they are less-than-ideal options in the given scenario. Do we need them? No. Would there likely be a way to find them? Yes. So, sure, a random .380 or .357mag would be a neat addition for people who take notice--but I'm suggesting they shouldn't be the norm. Ok there is my weapon/s suggestion--as brief as I can make it.

A quick note on ammunition. I know it's been drilled time and time again--but since we're all here chatting (or reading) let's speak about "SD" ammo again. Having particular mags for SD weapons could easily be rolled into the suggestions being made in this thread. Having different magazines is useless. I'm not sure why we would assume you need different ammunition for a suppressed weapon--unless we are talking about subsonic ammo. We should not be talking about subsonic ammo, however, because then we would need to also be talking about different ballistics per projectile and there's no need to add more layers to the game in terms of physics (IMO!) at this point. Going back to the OP, if all magazines were essentially just a vessel to get ammunition from a container to a target--we could simply eliminate SD magazines altogether. Things like "organize ammo" and carrying ammunition tins are exactly the type of thing that could help streamline the current loading/reloading and even combat system.

Yikes, some of that was pretty unclear. Sorry. Not enough caffeine. Feel free to capitalize on points, or whatever.

TL;DR

.22 (and other very common calibers) should be included, and less common 'novelty' items could be scaled back as they are less likely to be around--and even less likely to be used. Ammo tins should be available, and used as described by the OP. Magazines should not include SD, as they require the same ammunition (barring subsonic discussions and ballistics). Trying to add a hint of realism to the weaponry can go a long way, considering the amount of gun knowledge out there. The details matter! (to someone)

Edited December 13, 2012 by Jimm

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

I think having a more simple system would be better.

lets say you have have some clips, after reloading and popping zombies and a couple of survivors you got these.

ak mag. 25 rounds

ak mag. 10 rounds

ak mag. 5 rounds

ak mag. 28 rounds

Total rounds: 68

So you have a bunch of unorganized clips. WHAT IF, just.. follow me here. what if a person could right click the mag and simply click "Organize ammo" The character than does his animation for 5 seconds. then bam you then have

ak mag. 30 rounds

ak mag. 30 rounds

ak mag. 8 rounds

Total rounds: 68

simple.

You forgot:

Ak mag. 0 rounds. LUNCH!

[TG ! Jimmy 216]

That's assuming, of course, they make zombies the harbingers of death and destruction they need to have been to wipe out civilization.

Without detracting from the post's integrity too much--I'll just point out that the epidemic that spawned the zombies is what wipes out the majority of civilization in this given scenario, not the zombies themselves ;) got to put it in perspective. In the case of a classic zombie (rotting, decomposing tissue, and hunger for flesh) they are a much more mild threat than your living breathing human brethren, as they wouldn't have the ability to move quickly and strike with the force a human would (not to mention thought-process and so on). The zombies are a problem, but humans are the real threat in the given scenario!

And now back to your regularly scheduled ammunition discussion.

[hatfieldcw 184]

I'm always a big fan of this suggestion, and I've always assumed that it would be addressed in the standalone version of the game.

I don't think I've ever seen a game that did this properly. You get the basic "12/278 reloads to 30/260" system we see in most Halo of Duty games, and you get the Arma/Rainbow Six system where you wind up with four allllmost empty magazines in your inventory, but for a game like DayZ, where managing gear is central and you can't just rearm at HQ between missions, the more complex system fits really well, and is definitely called for.

[Happymrsnowman 52]

Well, a few games have done the "reload and lose your magazine" mechanic. Where if you reload, you lose all of the ammo in that mag since your character drops it on the ground. The amount of ammunition carried was also a relatively realistic amount (5 1911 magazines, 30 shotgun cartridges). The game I'm referencing is Mafia, but I'm sure other games have done it.

[____ (DayZ) 3]

Ok just skimmed through every bodies comments. No mater what they do.,The thing that hacks me off the most is that if you have a clip loaded into your gun its still counts toward an inventory slot. If its in your gun it can not be in your pocket or back pack at the same time.

if nothing else just fix that.

[____ (DayZ) 3]

Ok just skimmed through every bodies comments. No mater what they do.,The thing that hacks me off the most is that if you have a clip loaded into your gun its still counts toward an inventory slot. If its in your gun it can not be in your pocket or back pack at the same time.

if nothing else just fix that.

[DayZoey 110]

I support this idea (though admit it has been suggested a number of times, though I support your actual thinking about it rather than just coughing it up on to the forums and expect to be rolling in teh beanz) and think it's certainly a good step in the right direction that isn't far off from the current system of filling things.

I suggest that we add the ability to empty magazines similarly to how you did, though incorporate the use of the ammo box idea in to it. Got a left over mag with three rounds in it? Empty those in to the box where you're storing your ammo currently, viola, you have three extra bullets to use elsewhere that aren't taking up space. This would also give way to the communal "potluck" idea in sharing ammunition. You empty the last twelve rounds of a magazine you don't need, your buddy can take eight of those twelve and make a full magazine.

Certainly supports more teamwork and I'm all for anything that makes teamwork a more viable option to survival rather than just killing everyone you see for fun/supplies.

[mbainrot 4]

Heh even if this one is a duplicate (and not the otherway around (time paradox)) I love the idea :D You could tell a real cool operator by the way they reload their mags in the middle of a gun fight (or their poor organisation skills)

In all honesity the ammo slots should be derrived by the volume of the magazines, coupled with the total weight of the backpack

[Happymrsnowman 52]

I suggest that we add the ability to empty magazines similarly to how you did, though incorporate the use of the ammo box idea in to it. Got a left over mag with three rounds in it? Empty those in to the box where you're storing your ammo currently, viola, you have three extra bullets to use elsewhere that aren't taking up space. This would also give way to the communal "potluck" idea in sharing ammunition. You empty the last twelve rounds of a magazine you don't need, your buddy can take eight of those twelve and make a full magazine.

This is basically the idea I'm going for. The ability to pool ammo and relegate duties makes really good sense in the survival situation. You got a guy carrying gasoline, a guy carrying med supplies, a guy carrying ammo, etc etc etc. And again, to reiterate the whole purpose: this is for world building. Really going deeper than the shooting survival aspect of the game into the deeper long term aspect of the game. Building bases, distributing weapons, taking back the land, warring against other factions.

The ammo management and magazine mechanics are just a stepping stone. Kinda like what the devs said, CORE development. This is something not just suggested, but REQUIRED. Something without which the game would feel flat and like any other shooter.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Ok just skimmed through every bodies comments. No mater what they do.,The thing that hacks me off the most is that if you have a clip loaded into your gun its still counts toward an inventory slot. If its in your gun it can not be in your pocket or back pack at the same time.

if nothing else just fix that.

they are magic bullets, held in a magic cartridge, very similar to the ones that killed JFK, so they can be at multiple places, at the same time.