Factions and Territory

[eecer 2]

Allowing the players to generate their own factions (I know that is planned for the game) is fantastic. Part of surviving an apocalypse is rebuilding society, and allowing the players to build their own factions would help do this, but even more important is allowing the factions to control land. I don't mean that they would have to hold an area for a certain amount of time, but instead have the zombie spawn outside of a certain radius from players. This would mean that more players in a certain area would mean that the zombies are spawning farther and farther away, making the land that they are trying to hold a little more safe, at first. Over time, if there becomes more and more players in one area, it should attract more and more zombies, so even if they're spawning a little farther away, they should be more attracted to where the players are located.

Then there's saving your game, and the only way of doing that should be the good old Minecraft way of sleeping in a bed, but if the bed is destroyed your player dies. Now this would mean that the zombies can't come and wake you up but raiders out there could destroy beds to see if any goods fall out. This would guarantee that there is no safety, ever, and finding a safe faction that will let you stay the night can be extremely helpful.

Then there's the risk of opposing factions, suddenly you might not have to worry so much about zombies but the raiders that are headed right for you, this generates even more risk to the home areas and there should be ways to protect your base or town even more by allowing the players to put up chain fencing or even cement road blocks. Now I understand that the game is based on realism, so we can't have the players carrying around a cement slab on their back, but I'm sure there's a way to add that into "craftable" items. Even allowing them to build a wall out of wood, cement, or even steel if they can salvage enough supplies would really be great.

Now, if a faction managed to do this there is still the most important part of all, general living resources. Food and water are still needed and allowing the players to generate a farm, a well, going out to catch fish. This should all be there for people to truly live in an apocalyptic world. Certain supplies should be limited on the server like fuel, making it to where the faction might have cars and choppers but not every player can just go to the same spot to get the loot. There would be only one gallon of fuel for the first player to find it, one small solar panel sitting in a dumpster to allow someone to sit and charge the batteries to their radio, or night vision.

Now they mention pen and paper, but also having radios to talk to your faction would be great if you have a way to charge them. Electronics should still be available with a limited battery time, and a way to recharge or replace the batteries. This could be done with a small portable solar panel or maybe a house has a gas powered generator, or maybe you just killed someone with a few spare batteries on them.

Although this all seems like it's more of a living idea, remember that the people actually have to manage this. There are still going to be those travelers who join, steal, and leave; players that formed a pure raiding faction, and those zombies will never stop. I think of this as a way to generate a more important motive behind having additional people with you, and to the buildings themselves. And of course these should be options that the moderators can choose which ones are on and off.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Factions and territories don't need scripts imo, just make them. More humans the more interesting for zombies isn't it?

Even in factions you can't trust 100% of the players, the way to log out is ok, limiting it to certain playes can bo good or bad.

Limited ressources would be fine if the servers could run a mission for a week without lagging like hell or a hacker crashing the game...i would find it interesting what people would do when they find nothing anymore - that would give them a valid reason to fight eachother than random killing. But in exchange server hopping must be forbidden so the limited ressources really have an impact on the players and their playstyles.

Last words...a lot of people cry for realism and such things but not even 10% want a life simulator in the game where you have do the boring stuff like wash clothes ( just an eample ) or prep water so you can drink it even if it's part of surival most of them just want to shoot to have the feeling of having survived.

It's like a spec ops game...action only...the hour long hiking and stakeouts would bore one to death.

[eecer 2]

Factions and territories don't need scripts imo, just make them. More humans the more interesting for zombies isn't it?

Even in factions you can't trust 100% of the players, the way to log out is ok, limiting it to certain playes can bo good or bad.

Very true lol factions wasn't so much of my include in programming as much as allowing the players to bunker their factions territory.

Limited ressources would be fine if the servers could run a mission for a week without lagging like hell or a hacker crashing the game...i would find it interesting what people would do when they find nothing anymore - that would give them a valid reason to fight eachother than random killing. But in exchange server hopping must be forbidden so the limited ressources really have an impact on the players and their playstyles.

Last words...a lot of people cry for realism and such things but not even 10% want a life simulator in the game where you have do the boring stuff like wash clothes ( just an eample ) or prep water so you can drink it even if it's part of surival most of them just want to shoot to have the feeling of having survived.

It's like a spec ops game...action only...the hour long hiking and stakeouts would bore one to death.

The chaos could really spread, that's why I also included the ability to craft your own food, even just simply hunting animals could be your task to have some food for the next week, and that's why I mention the basic tasks of life. Essentially it's not necessary, nor is it priority, but having the option to truly survive in game as you would in reality is something that I think should be an option. Most of all I think that all of these aspects should be an option for the people building the servers to have. A hardcore mode for the people who choose to play that way.

Edited November 29, 2012 by eecer

[Mad larkin 1]

Allowing the players to generate their own factions (I know that is planned for the game) is fantastic. Part of surviving an apocalypse is rebuilding society, and allowing the players to build their own factions would help do this, but even more important is allowing the factions to control land. I don't mean that they would have to hold an area for a certain amount of time, but instead have the zombie spawn outside of a certain radius from players. This would mean that more players in a certain area would mean that the zombies are spawning farther and farther away, making the land that they are trying to hold a little more safe, at first. Over time, if there becomes more and more players in one area, it should attract more and more zombies, so even if they're spawning a little farther away, they should be more attracted to where the players are located.

Then there's saving your game, and the only way of doing that should be the good old Minecraft way of sleeping in a bed, but if the bed is destroyed your player dies. Now this would mean that the zombies can't come and wake you up but raiders out there could destroy beds to see if any goods fall out. This would guarantee that there is no safety, ever, and finding a safe faction that will let you stay the night can be extremely helpful.

Then there's the risk of opposing factions, suddenly you might not have to worry so much about zombies but the raiders that are headed right for you, this generates even more risk to the home areas and there should be ways to protect your base or town even more by allowing the players to put up chain fencing or even cement road blocks. Now I understand that the game is based on realism, so we can't have the players carrying around a cement slab on their back, but I'm sure there's a way to add that into "craftable" items. Even allowing them to build a wall out of wood, cement, or even steel if they can salvage enough supplies would really be great.

I totally agree with this idea as dayz currently lacks tasks and goals that can be immediately relevant to players who do not have much in the way of arsenal or pre built teams. The importance of toolkits and vehicles will be hightened as well, The need to shelter from attracted zombies or snipers/bandits passing by would fuel demand. 200 odd Kms of space to fill afterall.

I think that these tasks can be creative and really mix it up from the surviving , crawling , waiting and hiking parts of the game.

[eecer 2]

Playing the run and gun and try to find supplies is fun but also having the option to bunker down and try to find a permanent shelter is something that I would love to do.

[boxman80 964]

First of all I’d like to welcome you to the forum (or at least your first post). This is a fantastic post obviously well thought out. On the whole I agree that factions and territory should be considered more seriously and developed much more in SA, but I do find some of your ideas difficult to envision working, especially with the amount of variables that would need to be considered. That’s not to say I’m not excited at the prospect of some of your ideas!

Allowing the players to generate their own factions (I know that is planned for the game) is fantastic. Part of surviving an apocalypse is rebuilding society, and allowing the players to build their own factions would help do this, but even more important is allowing the factions to control land. I don't mean that they would have to hold an area for a certain amount of time, but instead have the zombie spawn outside of a certain radius from players. This would mean that more players in a certain area would mean that the zombies are spawning farther and farther away, making the land that they are trying to hold a little more safe, at first. Over time, if there becomes more and more players in one area, it should attract more and more zombies, so even if they're spawning a little farther away, they should be more attracted to where the players are located.

I like this idea in principal but I find it hard to imagine how it would work and how it would affect other players in the server on it’s own (I know you are trying to apply it along with the other ideas in your post). Especially when you consider that the Zombies only spawn in towns at the moment. So if this remains the case your idea and logic would presume that players would try and secure parts of cities, towns or small villages as strongholds. Surely it would only be a matter of time on most servers before most towns and cities wouldn’t be spawnining many zombies actually inside them? After a short time possibly yes they would spawn around the towns/cities , but this would only make the game eaiser for other players and NOT the factions themselves.

If for instance a faction of around 12 players clear and secure an area, say a good chunk of Kemenka , then all retire for the night and a couple of other players come on and find the place zombie free, would they be able to loot? Would a note on the map (if they have one) denote that this area belongs to Faction X? Wouldn’t that just make it easier for other players to loot gear that a faction fought hard for? How could they defend their loot? It just seems to me that this might severely disadvantage those playing in a faction and encourage solo play.

Then there's saving your game, and the only way of doing that should be the good old Minecraft way of sleeping in a bed, but if the bed is destroyed your player dies. Now this would mean that the zombies can't come and wake you up but raiders out there could destroy beds to see if any goods fall out. This would guarantee that there is no safety, ever, and finding a safe faction that will let you stay the night can be extremely helpful.

I’ve read a number of good suggestions on “sleep” time, i.e. the times you log out and leaving your character in the game world. Good suggestions I’ve heard are having affects on a players stats such as food/water levels and even their senses based on where a player left their character. To me this kind of makes sense and opens up more areas for survival in the game, making players conscious of the environment more and encouraging them to get better survival kit, therefore making survival more than just gun and food looting.

I must admit I do like the idea of other players being able to stumble upon your character when he’s holed up (sleeping) but I’m not sure how practical it would be and I feel it would just become irritating after a while when it would inevitably be abused. Especially when you consider again it would be factions that would take the biggest hit with such a system when combined with the above idea as they would be more easilyf ound on a map – i.e. there’d be areas of the map with either no zombies spawning or they would be spawning in a pattern AROUND a certain area of the map. Even for solo players on a map the size of Chernarus, players could and would easily stumble upon a players “bed” and 9/10 time would just kill them or rob them.

No for me there would need to be a better balance to this system before it would be considered workable.

Then there's the risk of opposing factions, suddenly you might not have to worry so much about zombies but the raiders that are headed right for you, this generates even more risk to the home areas and there should be ways to protect your base or town even more by allowing the players to put up chain fencing or even cement road blocks. Now I understand that the game is based on realism, so we can't have the players carrying around a cement slab on their back, but I'm sure there's a way to add that into "craftable" items. Even allowing them to build a wall out of wood, cement, or even steel if they can salvage enough supplies would really be great.

Now, if a faction managed to do this there is still the most important part of all, general living resources. Food and water are still needed and allowing the players to generate a farm, a well, going out to catch fish. This should all be there for people to truly live in an apocalyptic world. Certain supplies should be limited on the server like fuel, making it to where the faction might have cars and choppers but not every player can just go to the same spot to get the loot. There would be only one gallon of fuel for the first player to find it, one small solar panel sitting in a dumpster to allow someone to sit and charge the batteries to their radio, or night vision.

Now they mention pen and paper, but also having radios to talk to your faction would be great if you have a way to charge them. Electronics should still be available with a limited battery time, and a way to recharge or replace the batteries. This could be done with a small portable solar panel or maybe a house has a gas powered generator, or maybe you just killed someone with a few spare batteries on them.

See now you are talking, this enables factions to defend their selves, particularly now as you have given them a way to easily kill their opponents by just waiting till they are asleep/offline! Crafting should feature in the game to some extent, and naturally larger groups should have more resources and “bigger” craftable items and possibilities.

However I find my self wondering what about those who don’t want to be in a faction? How long before most servers have large areas of the map inaccessible to them because of factions? How would servers regulate loot? It seems this may well just force players to be in factions just to get a chance at limited loot items. Also what happens when a server goes down or reboots? All that hard work gone? I don’t know seems a bit twitchy for it to work just yet.

Although this all seems like it's more of a living idea, remember that the people actually have to manage this. There are still going to be those travelers who join, steal, and leave; players that formed a pure raiding faction, and those zombies will never stop. I think of this as a way to generate a more important motive behind having additional people with you, and to the buildings themselves. And of course these should be options that the moderators can choose which ones are on and off.

I tend to feel that theres not enough balance to your ideas just yet. I really do like the ideas of factions in the game and even secure territories, just think it needs to be really well thought out and it needs to be finely balanced offering equal advantages and disadvantages for those who do and don’t wish to play within factions.

[eecer 2]

First of all I’d like to welcome you to the forum (or at least your first post). This is a fantastic post obviously well thought out. On the whole I agree that factions and territory should be considered more seriously and developed much more in SA, but I do find some of your ideas difficult to envision working, especially with the amount of variables that would need to be considered. That’s not to say I’m not excited at the prospect of some of your ideas!

Thank you very much for the support and you bring up some excellent points about certain things that I hadn't fully considered, so I'll try to respond as best as I can. It definitely took me a bit to come up with a solid response to some of your points.

I like this idea in principal but I find it hard to imagine how it would work and how it would affect other players in the server on it’s own (I know you are trying to apply it along with the other ideas in your post). Especially when you consider that the Zombies only spawn in towns at the moment. So if this remains the case your idea and logic would presume that players would try and secure parts of cities, towns or small villages as strongholds. Surely it would only be a matter of time on most servers before most towns and cities wouldn’t be spawnining many zombies actually inside them? After a short time possibly yes they would spawn around the towns/cities , but this would only make the game eaiser for other players and NOT the factions themselves.

The biggest thing that I would want in the game is balance between being in a faction and being on your own. I didn’t do a great job at explaining how the zombie spawn would adjust for factions being in a city. I would also like to say that hopefully for the game itself and not the mod they will generate more spawn zones and not just in towns.

Now, my first point is that zombies should not be able to randomly spawn within a certain radius from your player. This means that once you’ve killed the five zombies that are at the farm, they’re not going to continue coming out of the farm and running for you, but that maybe from the woods in the back they start heading over after hearing the shots. If you killed those zombies silently then any surrounding ones won’t know you’re there and so you will be safe unless they decide to randomly walk that way.

So, let’s say that you and a small group of three or four people clear out the zombies from a small town. The town is temporarily secured, and zombies won’t spawn inside of it, but they will spawn outside of town and the more people that are in the town, then more zombies will be spawned in the outer regions and will move towards the town.

You say that you see this as more of an advantage for people who are playing solo, but think of it this way: If I’m in a group of four and we are bunkering in a town and are staying in one building, we can spot the zombies coming from the outskirts easily and have an easy time ensuring that we don’t have to worry about them, but as more people join my group more zombies are coming into town making it slightly more difficult to keep our area secure. Now, if I’m just playing on my own and I am aproaching a town that has been secured, I’m going to have a lot of zombies around me and making it even more difficult for me to get there and loot the town.

If for instance a faction of around 12 players clear and secure an area, say a good chunk of Kemenka , then all retire for the night and a couple of other players come on and find the place zombie free, would they be able to loot? Would a note on the map (if they have one) denote that this area belongs to Faction X? Wouldn’t that just make it easier for other players to loot gear that a faction fought hard for? How could they defend their loot? It just seems to me that this might severely disadvantage those playing in a faction and encourage solo play.

So my point above does secure the zombie free part, yes the town itself might be zombie free, but the surrounding area becomes more dangerous (As a side comment: If they developed the servers with my idea I would think that as the players approach the town the zombie spawns in the outside would load the zombies a good distance before the players arrived and it would be possible for them to move within the city by the time the players actually made it inside).

The others being able to loot should be a server option. That is something that some people would love to have the extreme reality and others would hate to have everything stolen while they’re gone. I understand both sides but I love to have play style options.

No, I don’t think that territories should be classified. In the end it should be up to that faction whether or not they want to be noticed or remain hidden. Not only that but you also have to think that if you just secured the town to stay overnight, then while you’re offline you get raided because your team has their label on the town generates more problems than it does answers.

You do bring up an excellent point of securing items though. My first thought is that players have the option of “locking” doors making it to where no one can enter the building, but this should only be available from the inside of the building to ensure that players can’t just store items.

I’ve read a number of good suggestions on “sleep” time, i.e. the times you log out and leaving your character in the game world. Good suggestions I’ve heard are having affects on a players stats such as food/water levels and even their senses based on where a player left their character. To me this kind of makes sense and opens up more areas for survival in the game, making players conscious of the environment more and encouraging them to get better survival kit, therefore making survival more than just gun and food looting.

I must admit I do like the idea of other players being able to stumble upon your character when he’s holed up (sleeping) but I’m not sure how practical it would be and I feel it would just become irritating after a while when it would inevitably be abused. Especially when you consider again it would be factions that would take the biggest hit with such a system when combined with the above idea as they would be more easilyf ound on a map – i.e. there’d be areas of the map with either no zombies spawning or they would be spawning in a pattern AROUND a certain area of the map. Even for solo players on a map the size of Chernarus, players could and would easily stumble upon a players “bed” and 9/10 time would just kill them or rob them.

No for me there would need to be a better balance to this system before it would be considered workable.

You do make an excellent point about this, and for that I would say that my idea above for locking rooms solves this, unless you use an unsecurable building or a sleeping bag. This would make it a little more risky to live out in the woods. I do agree that most people would be killed while sleeping though, so I think that the “locking” idea works to balance that.

See now you are talking, this enables factions to defend their selves, particularly now as you have given them a way to easily kill their opponents by just waiting till they are asleep/offline! Crafting should feature in the game to some extent, and naturally larger groups should have more resources and “bigger” craftable items and possibilities.

However I find my self wondering what about those who don’t want to be in a faction? How long before most servers have large areas of the map inaccessible to them because of factions? How would servers regulate loot? It seems this may well just force players to be in factions just to get a chance at limited loot items. Also what happens when a server goes down or reboots? All that hard work gone? I don’t know seems a bit twitchy for it to work just yet.

Yes, this is something that would help keep the zombies and the raiders outside of your factions property. I also do completely agree with your idea of multiple players co-crafting larger items.

To answer your second part, if you have looked into ArmA 3 Engine they talk about the possibility of destructible building. So, even if your faction has barricaded their town, it can still be breached. Server wise, many make sure to save data on a daily basis minimum. I would also like to add when it comes to factions that by building barricades you are now displaying that there are people and items there. Securing the area could be more of a risk if you’re not ready for having twenty-four hour watch.

[BSB Jimmy 360]

how the fuck would beds work?