MERGED: Gamma & Brightness

[Lexi (DayZ) 5]

Necro: replying to an old thread thus bumping it back up for discussion

[trauma.au 14]

Necro: replying to an old thread thus bumping it back up for discussion

Oh, well thing is this thread is less than a week old. So that's the end of that. More so this forum has not been up long enough for any thread to be considered old.

I posted here because I searched for the topic I want to post about before hand.

[oilman 72]

sick necro bro.

Posting in a thread that exists instead of making a new one is not a bad thing. I wish users of this forum would realise this, would mean we wouldn't have to keep merging threads. :p

On the topic of the game, I would never raise gamma or brightness myself, and I am sure I have had plenty of deaths due to others doing so. But, such is life, and it's one of those things that will never be able to be changed. I will keep right on playing, and suggest others do the same.

[guran 1]

Yeah this is annoying, using a higher gamma and a few other settings gives you a big advantage.

If this was Quake or some other arcadish shooter I wouldn't care at all but since it's supposed to be realistic and PvP is possible it's not fun to know that some will use this to their advantage. It's simply cheating in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure anti-cheat-software like Punkbuster and VAC can enforce settings. Cant BattleEye do it too?

There are standards on how your screen should be calibrated (gamma and brightness) so that graphics (photos, movies, games..) should look the same on every monitor. But it's mostly artists that care about this it seems.

My point is that the default/enforced gamma and brightness in Arma should be calibrated/forced around these values.

Grass and shadows should also be forced to at least some minimum setting. Sure you might lose a few players with really shitty computers (at least with forced shadows and grass), but if it's the case it's really time for them to get a new computer.

Advantage by settings is simply not for realistic games.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Most consumer grade displays are pieces of shit when it comes to offering true color accuracy (pretty contrast and nuclear blast whites are not enough) so it only makes sense to offer some adjustments so those with displays that eat away half of the dark grey tones can see something.

So, sure we could do away with any color adjustment settings, but then i assume you're also ready to buy me a top of the line graphic art display :)

[statistx 5]

I can only say that i NEED to tune those two values up during the night or else i see absolutely nothing except the sky and the water. Even then i barely can call the game playable at night.

In RL i see way more than the guy in the game during the night, cause you should be able to at least see a few steps ahead of your current position, especially when your eyes are adjusted to the darkness

[guran 1]

Most consumer grade displays are pieces of shit when it comes to offering true color accuracy (pretty contrast and nuclear blast whites are not enough) so it only makes sense to offer some adjustments so those with displays that eat away half of the dark grey tones can see something.

So' date=' sure we could do away with any color adjustment settings, but then i assume you're also ready to buy me a top of the line graphic art display :)

[/quote']

Sure gamma and brightness are tricky settings to force. I don't know everything about computer screens but I have quite cheap TN panel and I think I've found quite nice gamma and brightness settings. It cant be that bad for anyone else either.

But sure there is probably someone out there that has been fooled into buying a garbage computer screen.

Maybe the settings could at least be limited a little?

I still think that grass and shadows should be forced to a minimum setting. Turning them off completely should just not be possible.

[Hesher (DayZ) 2]

If they can remove moon's effect of brightness or the moon itself this could be mostly fixed. But im not sure if many people would play at night then, which would mean overpopulation of servers where its day. And servers are not in abundance atm as you all know.

[statistx 5]

that moon light effect...is it tied to any special settings?

I never saw that and just have pitch black. I changed around some graphic settings before starting the game, logged in and thought something was broken, but in fact it was just night and i had to move around a little to find the ocean, since i can only make out the sky and ocean and shapes in front of them.

[Mandra (DayZ) 0]

Raising gamma and brightness also makes your game look like shit. Either way, look at this way. When ever someone raises their brightness in order to see better or raises gamma or lowers terrain detail so on... It just makes it more challenging for those who didn't which equals to a more exciting game time. In the end you really wouldn't know who is doing it unless they told you so. If you ask me, give us the option to make the text brightness darker so when you're roaming around at night and people are typing it doesn't break the immersion that the lighting is trying to set up for you.

Brilliant mod!

[Samoflan 3]

I tried turning up the monitor and in game contrast/brightness, and it is still pitch black. I get no such benefit. Is there something I am missing?

[guran 1]

Either way' date=' look at this way. When ever someone raises their brightness in order to see better or raises gamma or lowers terrain detail so on... It just makes it more challenging for those who didn't which equals to a more exciting game time. In the end you really wouldn't know who is doing it unless they told you so.[/quote']

I cant say that I like your idea of what a challenging game should be about; other players having a very unfair advantage just because of their settings. We could just as well give a few random players wallhacks and stuff too since it would just make things more challenging for the players that didn't get the wallhacks, tough shit for them!

It's not what I call exciting at least, being able to hide in the dark (and in high grass) is a key element of the game.

You're right about the last point of other people not knowing though.. The solutions is that everyone should be encouraged (there should be a big sign on the main dayzmod.com site) to use a high gamma setting instead so that everyone play with the same rules!

[beelzebossi@hotmail.com 28]

Increasing gamma helps way too much, must keep it high or some bandit will camp you.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

that moon light effect...is it tied to any special settings?

I never saw that and just have pitch black. I changed around some graphic settings before starting the game' date=' logged in and thought something was broken, but in fact it was just night and i had to move around a little to find the ocean, since i can only make out the sky and ocean and shapes in front of them.

[/quote']

It depends of the day, check your calendar and log on during a full moon night and you'll see what i mean.

I don't think gamma is such a big deal, it doesn't raise the light level, it only bump up the color of the whole scene.

If you see better in a grey night than in a dark night, there is probably something very wrong with your monitor, or with your eyes.

[statistx 5]

Well, brightness for me changes the intensitiy of the sky, so while it does not get much better, i can make out landscape AGAINST that lighted backdrop better

[oktyabr 53]

As mentioned how maxing out gamma and brightness will work for you is dependent on your display, your video card and it's drivers. It is NOT the same for everyone, even maxed all the way up.

I have a Dell 23" and a GTX465 with the latest signed drivers. Last night I couldn't see anything but stars and solid black everywhere else... until the moon came up anyway. The guy I was grouping with could actually see my face, spot zombies (in what was solid pitch black from my computer) in the distance, etc. He was running a 460M in a laptop with the same exact drivers... and maxed all the way up for better night vision. My son runs some newer ATI card on a generic 19" LCD. He can see in the dark *without* touching the video controls at all. ~shrug~

Even if there was a way to lock the gamma and brightness settings in video configuration it would do nothing to make the playing field *equal*. It's one of the reasons most other games don't even bother with dynamic daylight and darkness.

[metal_izanagi 3]

You...can't force people to use certain settings, since, as has been stated numerous times, it's different for everyone. If it bothers you that much that people will abuse their monitors and graphics settings to see you better, either don't PK, and thus be a bandit, aka a target for everyone that doesn't like PKers, or...yeah that's really the only option. I don't do it myself, because the idea of making the game look like crap to get an advantage is silly to me, oh, and I also don't PK, because I prefer to be human, not a murderer.

[Mandra (DayZ) 0]

I personally think that raising gamma and brightness isn't a game breaker.

If anything, it ruins the game for that guy who does it. You will never get rid of grieffing if that's your point. I don't think rules should be set out for using or adjusting your gamma--this is all very kids like logic here. If you are faced with a problematic player in the game, best thing to do is probably face them or avoid them. The least you can do is play on the Anti Cheat servers if you want safety against cheaters.

If you get killed a bunch, well as someone who has survived a long time so far for the past 2 days, play it as if you were there. That's as simple as one can put it. If you were in that situation right now how would you go about it. This game isn't very forgiving for making irrational or stupid approaches to risky situations and that is why it is a one of a kind game.

It actually does make you apply moral choices that make a difference, something a ton of games in the past have tried but in the end its all the same bs. (IE: Bioshock, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls games.) Not to say those were bad games, but they failed to make me feel bad for killing the little sisters for example, because in the end you can quickly change your morale to good again.

DayZ, is a special game for that reason and plenty of other subtle ones, but the biggest one is you are actually experiencing what other people would do in return for you or to you; and that is out of being desperate in a very bleak world. Even if the person you meet is an asshole, that is who you meet, you cant change that. It's what makes this game alive as opposed to contrived.

The more challenging you make the world in believable ways the harder it will be for "grieffers" to be on the move.

IE: already existing mechanics like hunger, thirst, perhaps fatigue can be in there etc.

I posted this idea shortly in another post but, Perhaps player shoes can ware down.

And if your shoes break apart, walking around barefoot would make you become fatigued faster, or maybe you become sick and you breathe heavier as you walk around and you cough.

So no you have to find shoes, or meds.

Any way I think we should move past the idea of graphic adjustments improving game play. It is great as it is, and I don't think that can be easily changed unless perhaps they switched to the Unreal Engine.

[oktyabr 53]

Closing this thread because I think everything that can be said on the subject already has. If anyone disagrees feel free to PM with a GOOD reason it needs to be re-opened.

[raptorak 2]

I've been playing at night a lot recently, and realised that by maxing the gamma I can pretty much see better than in the day. I really think that night-vision should only be achievable by using the night vision goggles or some kind of light source.

Admittedly, the way things are, the game is a little too dark at night, but being able to bypass this by setting gamma to full is a little ridiculous, not to mention unfair on newer players.

I suggest that the gamma setting be locked to 1 or 1.2, since if you actually need super-high gamma, there must be something wrong with your system settings rather than with the game.

[zackb101 0]

I agree. I saw in the menu that this was possible and it's a cheap way to get around using flares/being tactical. If your monitor is too dark to see anything, good, use a damn flare.

Edit: Actually, just thought about it, is the gamma controlled by the mod itself or does Arma have complete control over it? If so is it possible for DayZ to detect the gamma level and counteract it?

[harryzhe 28]

the gamma control wont actually introduce more information to the screen. It just "slides" the range of the values, i suppose you could call it. It doesnt actually stretch the visible range. IF you turn it up all the way to max you still have as few colours as if it was representing only a very low range, only brighter. Well, it might increase perceptible contrast too i guess, but this still isnt more information. If you look at near pitch black areas you still wont be able to discern a person hiding in them as you would with NVG.

You're still at a disadvantage, and NVG will make things immeasurably clearer.

The light levels in arma are generally realistic. If it's a full moon you can see about as much as you would IRL in the country at a full moon (though the fact that it's the country makes no difference here as there's no lit up cities nearby)

[zackb101 0]

the gamma control wont actually introduce more information to the screen. It just "slides" the range of the values' date=' i suppose you could call it. It doesnt actually stretch the visible range. IF you turn it up all the way to max you still have as few colours as if it was representing only a very low range, only brighter. Well, it might increase perceptible contrast too i guess, but this still isnt more information. If you look at near pitch black areas you still wont be able to discern a person hiding in them as you would with NVG.

You're still at a disadvantage, and NVG will make things immeasurably clearer.

The light levels in arma are generally realistic. If it's a full moon you can see about as much as you would IRL in the country at a full moon (though the fact that it's the country makes no difference here as there's no lit up cities nearby)

[/quote']

I think his comparison to night vision goggles was an exaggeration of the problem at hand, to get peoples attention rightly so. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter what gamma "truly" does, I've tested it and it clearly gives players an unfair advantage.

[harryzhe 28]

well it's not unfair, because everyone has equal opportunity to use it.

Aside from this i really doubt mods have control over gamma to "enforce it."

Even if it did, then we're putting players with darker monitors at an unfair DISadvantage, because they cant correct their picture with gamma.

[zackb101 0]

well it's not unfair' date=' because everyone has equal opportunity to use it.

Aside from this i really doubt mods have control over gamma to "enforce it."

Even if it did, then we're putting players with darker monitors at an unfair DISadvantage, because they cant correct their picture with gamma.

[/quote']

So two wrongs make a right? If one person uses it it doesn't mean everyone should too. And players with a darker monitor can simply up their gamma for all applications from their monitor directly.

I don't see how you can sit here and dispute this. More players are being put to a disadvantage because of it than players that are using it for legitimate purposes.