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[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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Edited January 4, 2013 by Stauffenberg

[Trizzo 632]

The most decitful players are the most intelligent and would surivie best? No, let me fix that to the following. The most intelligent players have a survival advantage and are more likely to survive. "Deception" is one ascpect of "survival" and both terms have such a broad meanings and nobody, included you really said what context, everything is pretty wishy washy and also wheres the question?

Could one reason that humans have evolved as much as we have be precisely this - that we are the world's best tricksters and liars?

Coud be. So?

Does mastering the art of deceit mean mastering the world?

Not in of itself.

Camouflage is a form of deception

Utterly different to lying. The action is 'deception' but camouflage manifests physically. Compare VOIP luring/Ghille AS50. Different. One is social guile the other brutal force.

The better a creature is at lying, bluffing, and deceiving, the more likely it is to survive in this world. Lying is all about deceiving predators and surviving

Again let me fix this for you. "The better some creatures is at lying, bluffing".

Interesting thoughts. my view on this is that the evil shall inherit the earth, not the meek

I pretty much groan whenever I hear this tripe. Inherit the earth? I groan because of the gross biblical arrogance (as if humans are "owed" the earth, that it can be passed down), the absolutist proposition of "good vs evil", the fact that this quip ignores the fact that "humans" are are evolving and will probably be different from what currently are and the fact the sun is going to eventually go pop and there isn't going to be an earth left to inherit. What enjoys sole primacy of the earth and nothing after it will last for the blink of an eye, if that, when measured against the cosmos.

and those "better men" (or animals in this sense) remove themselves from the evolutionary process by disobeying this fundamental aspect in favor of social constructs on morality which are only possible to have themselves through advanced language and thereby advanced thinking. Too much thinking beyond what is natural is inhibits if you catch my drift

There is some grey area here. We see a shadow on the ground assume it's a snake, instinct. On the other hand we can trump natural urges because of intellegence. We are thirsty, see 50 corpes around a water hole we probally would not drink from it even we had no idea about waterborne disease/poison. But to say we disobey nature by forming "soical constructs" is wrong. Social constructs ensure survival. They are self interested enterprises with tangible survial gains. They also form exactlly how cells do. They take in nutrient (members) fight off the attackers (dissent/outsiders) they multiply (spreading the word/invitation)

Too much thinking beyond what is natural is inhibits if you catch my drift

Really? Thinking beyond the "natural" inhibits survival? Why then are the most advanced socities the ones with the highest levels of age expectancy/lowest deaths in childbirth/lowest level of disease/lowest levels of violent conflict. This how survival is measured. Soceities that tend to "think" are not inhibited. They flourish. Potential is realised.

To get to the position of power, at any point in human history, required the use of deception against peers on a massive scale.

Don't put deception on a pedestal. Deception is just one of many aspects. Leaders good and bad speak to innate desires, the wishes, hopes and fears of followers. They just don't trick people 100% of the time.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Trizzo

[Trizzo 632]

Are you forgetting that our species has been in a perpetual state of war with itself since the beginning of recorded civilisation? War has been the main engine of human technological development. Developments which then have civilian uses i.e. in hunting, agriculture and "civilisation". Without war and destruction, of which we are masters, we would be a much lesser animal by now.

This is why you've creeped people out. You fetishised "war" and sound quite happy about it.

What you are describing as "War" in the context of "the beginning of recorded civilisation" is essentially conflict between species for primacy/survival and not geopolitical strife. But SO WHAT. Humans are not specalists in conlifct. EVERY species is at conflict with another, directly through predation or indirectly through enviromental stress. "War" drives every change, this is called natural selection. Species that grew sharpened talons could kill the others, aniamls that developed spines/carapace could defend against predators. We are not the sole masters of "war" nor the single benifactor of evolutionary development. To paraphrase Dawkins(?), "A cheetah is made to catch a gazelle, a gazelle is made to outrun a cheetah".

Machines make things look grandiose. The ability to make them is unqiely human. That is all. War junkies are pretty much anthro-narcissists who look at an aircraft carrier and say "well only one species is smart enough to build such a big powerful ship we must be the best". But so what? There is only one poisonous egg laying mammal. Neither of those two statements prove anything expect to highlight the different ways in which species can survive.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Trizzo

[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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Edited January 4, 2013 by Stauffenberg

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

however, the civilised world is a recent invention, what about the hundreds of thousands of years where our species was shaped, when humans were pitted against each other and nature with no rules at all? (a world like that represented in DayZ?).

^^ my words

There's no use debating with someone who ignores what others have to say, OP you are a very strange fellow indeed

Edited November 25, 2012 by wabbit

[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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Edited January 4, 2013 by Stauffenberg

[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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Edited January 4, 2013 by Stauffenberg

[MakeThemListen 51]

i have this other scenario that came to mind when reading the article. if you had twenty remaining survivors and they were split into two even groups with a chosen leader on an island, with one of these groups being nice, trusting, moral people etc and the other being totally ruthless liars, deceivers and backstabbers then ask yourself which group is going to emerge triumphant? I am sure the nice guys are busy talking about integrating the other half to have more numbers and a bigger society etc, whilst the bad guys are discussing how there is not sufficient food on the island for 20 people. the leader of the badasses is gonna know that and so go to the other side of the island waving a big white flag, bringing gifts of crabs and coconuts . that evening everyone would celebrate and get mightily drunk. then at the whispered signal the badass group wakes up and slits the throats of their brethren and then cook them up in coconut juices, so that the islands resources get some time to recover

Ever read 'Lord of the Flies'? :P

[Trizzo 632]

I never said YOU were a bible basher. I think it's a just a bad quote to allude to or use to illistrate in any context

"Too much thinking beyond what is natural is inhibits if you catch my drift" What did you mean by this statement? It would be helpful to explain b/c i don't acutally catch your drift! (work time brb)

Edited November 25, 2012 by Trizzo

[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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[Colten (DayZ) 40]

My lying abilities in game have gotten me to thinking on whether or not I am pathological. I end up believing my own lies that I create in game to lure players, which adds an essence to it that makes it even more tangible. On Takistan, I killed about three to four players a day from simply lying (and these weren't noobs, either; these people had M16s w/ ACOGs, M24s, etc.)

I lie in game to get what I want. I have traveled with groups for hours, only to shoot them randomly.. for no apparent reason. Seriously. We were running through a forest in Chenarus, and when they stopped to drink their water, I murdered all three of them. I tell people I am in Bastam, and I am really in the south air field... or I say I am in Cherno, and I am really in Prigodorki.

Lying in this game is the reason as to why I've survived for so long. Who gives a damn about dignity? As long as I get what I want, dignity does not matter. :P

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I killed a man last night who found a clan bus filled with tons of gear. I told him that I was laying down in a field with a broken leg south of Stary Sobor, and he drove the bus to me. As soon as I saw him descend the crest of the hill, I shot him with my M107. Out of that bus, I got a Ghillie Suit, GPS, NVGs, AS50, L85, etc. I was loaded, and the bus was still loaded when I left.

I -love- being a bandit. The rush is excellent... I love the feeling of tricking people, and stealing their items. I don't feel bad, because it is a game... however, it is a game that taps in to our primal instincts... which I find interesting.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Colten

[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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Edited January 4, 2013 by Stauffenberg

[reidloS doG 38]

Excuse me but I am a student of child psychology at a prestigious university and very happy in my life. I enjoy study in the area of human evolution, no matter how dark it is and would like to discuss the matter here since I notice people talking about this sort of thing often here. The thread title is what the article is directly implying.

I imagine you've taken philosphy as a core requisite? The way you talk seems like you took a genetic fallacy and turned inward on yourself. After reading this whole discussion, I've lead to the conclusion that you don't actually talk to people like this. Chances are high you've never talked to someone verbally about any of these thoughts. Not that it discredits your claim, but from a human receiving your thoughts and feelings, its readily apparent that something dangerous is taking place in your claims.

There is no way to disprove or prove your claims. Too many to understand (or more appropriately, logically deconstruct), with many of them having nothing to do with one another.

How about you revise your statements and come back with one logic based statement? It would make it less emotionally off-setting for the rest of us and actually make you look coherent and not so creepy.

[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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[Stauffenberg (DayZ) 6]

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[Colten (DayZ) 40]

I don't find his posts to be creepy - I find them to be interesting. Instead of greeting his sentiments with sheer hostility, perhaps you should analyze his points.

[OrLoK 16187]

*pokes head in to keep an eye on thread and posters*

[Colten (DayZ) 40]

Morality? again a human invention, nature has no sense of morality, nature is neutral, the only force that shapes the success or failure of a species is natural selsction driven by environmental change.

This is simply untrue. New research that has been conducted provides new insight to morality amongst the great apes. It suggests that our concept of morality is not entirely different from theirs. As an example, I wiill use Koko. When she is told of her cat dying (in a Youtube video), she sobs uncontrollably in the night. The same would happen if her newborn baby died.

Throughout evolution, we developed a sense of good and bad simply based on our need for self-preservation. In fact, it acts as a pivot for survival; such as, "I don't want to hurt him, because I don't want him to hurt me. Therefore, if I am good to him, he will be good to me." ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you")

The name that we attribute to morality is invented by humans, yes... but morality, as we understand it, exists in other species.

http://www.academia.edu/455691/Moral_apes_human_uniqueness_and_the_image_of_God

Recent advances in evolutionary biology and ethology suggest that humans are not the only species capable of empathy andpossibly morality.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Colten

[BSB Jimmy 360]

bullshit. a smart person in dayz would use people the best they can.

eg. he stumbles upon a player, rather than killing on sight, he makes him drop his weapon and lets him live if he gives him a blood transfusion. there is no point in killing hime

[OrLoK 16187]

Hello there

DAYZ is different to real life, sentinel. In DAYZ it's easier and safer to kill another player, why waste blood on an anonymous player?

This might differ if there was a small and regular community on that particular server as a "good act" may later be repaid with another "good act."

But as it's easy to server hop one doesn't build up those relationships and other anon players become mere sources of kit and food.

One cannot compare real life behaviour to in game behaviour, although aspects of a persons deeper persona may (and often does) come out in gameplay.

rgds

LoK

[-Guardian- 206]

which of these two groups would survive the Zombie Apocolypse.

Data programmers and Prison Inmates

Who would live?

People usually are too quick to say that the inmates would live. The Data guys would live in this scenario mainly because theyd be able to work together and form some sort of plan that they can think out and progress towards.

The inmates would end up lying to each other out for their own personal gain, or for just plain stupid reasons they didnt think through that well. people who lie and deceit others for personal gain end up dead sooner than later.

^ Now obviously this only applies to an actual scenario. NOT DayZ. If you are playing DayZ it is in your best interest to lie and backstab anyone you find. just remember it when you need that bloodbag.

[Col. Kurtz (DayZ) 91]

Hello there

DAYZ is different to real life, sentinel. In DAYZ it's easier and safer to kill another player, why waste blood on an anonymous player?

This might differ if there was a small and regular community on that particular server as a "good act" may later be repaid with another "good act."

But as it's easy to server hop one doesn't build up those relationships and other anon players become mere sources of kit and food.

One cannot compare real life behaviour to in game behaviour, although aspects of a persons deeper persona may (and often does) come out in gameplay.

rgds

LoK

You and your common sense are not welcome here. lol

+1 man great post!