Suggestions regarding survival options.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

I really love this mod mostly because it's so harsh and unforgiving. I've had great time playing DayZ after I got attacked by a horde of zombies, and had to survive with about 1k of blood and nearly no supplies.

Having that said, I still think it's slightly too easy to survive. There's always plenty of food and drink, and if you're healthy, there's no reason to panic really. So here's my suggestions on how to make this mod even more survival-focused:

1)Food

a) Less food lying around. It's so easy to find some canned food, that finding hunting knife and matches is really not a big deal. Unless you're hurt, I'll get back to that later. Maybe cans should fill you up only in 50%, maybe they should be very rare. It's been discussed a lot already, no point in repeating arguments. Bottom line is, that finding food should be difficult, and right now I'm more concerned with finding cool weapon, than with not starving to death.

b) Adding "Satiated" status. It makes no sense that, when I'm hurt, I kill a cow, eat 8 steaks at once and I'm healthy again. I shouldn't be able to eat more than 2 steaks. It would require some tweaking, but you get the idea - you can't eat a whole cow at once, you're not Kobayashi. I think the easiest way to make it realistic is to check hunger level every time player wants to eat. If I want to eat beans I have an option in menu only if I'm <= 75% full. Cooked meat appears in the menu if I'm <=50% full. Numbers can be tweaked but you get the idea. Point is - don't let me eat a whole cow when I'm hurt.

2) Bandits

I wrote about it somewhere else but let me put it as a whole suggestion. Of course the game shouldn't punish people for killing players, that would be dumb. But we also need to consider the fact, that it's a game, not reality. That's why we need a way of recognizing players. Not bandits, but players in general. If I meet a guy who helps me to kill Zeds, and then gives me some important stuff, I really don't want to kill him next time I meet him. So my suggestion is: add a feature of displaying player's nickname after some time of looking at him/her. People will adjust quickly, I'm sure.

3)Sickness

As far as I know it's impossible to keep track of weather globally but I might be wrong. But let's assume it is.

Add "Ill" status that's gained after some (longer) time without sitting next to a fire (or in the rain, if it's possible to check). At first it won't do much - some blur from time to time. But later, if player won't do anything about it (making a fireplace, eating cooked meat, maybe eating some medicine, if you add it) it'll get worse - longer periods of blur, coughing and sneezing (that would be really terrible consequence, nobody would take it lightly) and eventually passing out. I think the main issue is to code conditions for getting ill. Let's say that every minute next to the fire gives you an hour of running without getting ill, and for every "tier" of illness you need to spend 5 minutes next to the fire and eat one cooked meat + some medicine if it's pass some point (coughing for example).

So that's my suggestions. I realize that it's basically "Make it harder" but that's exactly what I want from this game - I want it to be survival-focused, unforgiving, tough game, even more than it is right now.

And now discuss.

[oktyabr 53]

Nice post!

Maybe antibiotics too?

Your illness idea could even come with involuntary sneeze sounds and the like as well. Maybe make it contagious when in too close a contact.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

Nice post!

Maybe antibiotics too?

Your illness idea could even come with involuntary sneeze sounds and the like as well. Maybe make it contagious when in too close a contact.

Both ideas are in my post - medicines, and coughing and sneezing. I know, it's too long, easy to miss stuff:)

EDIT:

As for contagious part, it might be a good idea (I don't know how hard to implement it would be) but only on higher tiers of illness. We're survivors during zombie apocalypse, not children in kindergarten.

[oktyabr 53]

As for contagious part' date=' it might be a good idea (I don't know how hard to implement it would be) but only on higher tiers of illness. We're survivors during zombie apocalypse, not children in kindergarten.

[/quote']

LOL! Hey, you said you wanted to make it harder! ;)

But let's think about it for a moment. We're living in *terrible* conditions with no working sewers, no heat (besides a campfire), terrible hygiene, malnutrition, no proper medical care, and ROTTING CORPSES EVERYWHERE! Fleas, ticks, rodents scurrying around through putrefied piles of fly covered meat, etc... It's likely that illness would be a very serious matter in times like these.

Think about the group dynamic... You really want to loot that guy who was just sneezing and hacking his way into the church? How about that member of your group that seems to be coming down with something? Find him rare antibiotics or leave him behind for the safety of the rest of the group?

Harder? Sure. But the despair felt by players knowing that their lives are likely short, and it might not even be a bullet or a zombie that ends it, would certainly spice this up with a true "survival" feel I think.

[Astral (DayZ) 2]

Plus, imagine how much harder it would be to loot a town when you're actually in need of antibiotics or similar medicines. Sneaking through a horde of zombies, then suddenly-- ACHOO.

Shit.

[shiromikan 217]

I am.. perplexed at the ideal of illness! I was going to make an argument against it, however... I thought about it more. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. Provided you don't get sick everyday...

Also, after it rains, rivers, lakes, and the ocean will be slightly toxic (bacterium/contaminated blood? will become runoff and empty into the lakes and whatnot). It would add an entirely new facet to game-play.

I.. I, uh, yeah. I am completely for this sickness element. I just hope that, if it's ever planned to be included, the community gets to discuss exactly how it should work. :D

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

As for contagious part' date=' it might be a good idea (I don't know how hard to implement it would be) but only on higher tiers of illness. We're survivors during zombie apocalypse, not children in kindergarten.

[/quote']

LOL! Hey, you said you wanted to make it harder! ;)

But let's think about it for a moment. We're living in *terrible* conditions with no working sewers, no heat (besides a campfire), terrible hygiene, malnutrition, no proper medical care, and ROTTING CORPSES EVERYWHERE! Fleas, ticks, rodents scurrying around through putrefied piles of fly covered meat, etc... It's likely that illness would be a very serious matter in times like these.

Think about the group dynamic... You really want to loot that guy who was just sneezing and hacking his way into the church? How about that member of your group that seems to be coming down with something? Find him rare antibiotics or leave him behind for the safety of the rest of the group?

Harder? Sure. But the despair felt by players knowing that their lives are likely short, and it might not even be a bullet or a zombie that ends it, would certainly spice this up with a true "survival" feel I think.

All of this is true and awesome, but I still think that if you catch a common cold you shouldn't be contagious until you get really ill. Sure, we are living in terrible conditions but it's safe to assume that we're also tough guys. All the weak people are zombie food by now. Remember - we all start with weapon and some basic "survival kit" which means that we were either some sort of military (maybe police, who knows) or we managed to live for some time and gathered some stuff before the game started. In both cases we're more than simple John Smith. Maybe not super heroes but you get the idea.

Plus' date=' imagine how much harder it would be to loot a town when you're actually in need of antibiotics or similar medicines. Sneaking through a horde of zombies, then suddenly-- ACHOO.

Shit.

[/quote']

That was my initial idea - make scavenging nearly impossible after you get ill, so preventing is the only viable option. It would encourage grouping as well. If you have to make a fireplace for several minutes you will want to do that in group. I can imagine people arranging something like hubs, where you can safely go and warm yourself.

Also, remember about other suggestions as well. For example, if you can recognize player's nickname it will be easier for you to be allowed to join somebody's "camp" if you're not a famous bandit. This is some sort of a punishment for bandits that so many people crave for, but this one is realistic, for a change.

[oktyabr 53]

LOL!

And anyone who has ever tried to do anything with a high fever and "the chills" probably wouldn't argue about the fatigue and even shaking while trying to get off a shot.

Make it more important to find shelter when it's raining. Make the campfire useful for more than just cooking meat. Add more drugs to the game. If there is ever a wildcraft foraging system added to the mod then collecting those herbs and bark for a hot cup of medicinal brew might be pretty interesting.

---

Also' date=' remember about other suggestions as well. For example, if you can recognize player's nickname it will be easier for you to be allowed to join somebody's "camp" if you're not a famous bandit. This is some sort of a punishment for bandits that so many people crave for, but this one is realistic, for a change.

[/quote']

Heh, I liked your other ideas too. But that's the chance you take when you post a bunch of ideas in a singular thread... You might try adding your ideas to the "wish list" thread (see the bottom of this post for the link) like some of the rest of us have.

Food, well there are a lot of posts suggesting changes to the food system and all I can say is I hope the devs have that somewhere on their "to do" list by now. I think a lot of the "eat a whole cow" thing will go away if blood regeneration over time is added and the ability of steaks to replentish blood, like magic, is removed. On a tangent a modified illness system could actually slowly lower your blood...

The problem with nicknames showing up, *I think*, is that name identification, etc. is tied very deeply to specific server settings. I'm not sure how easy that would be to script to work on all servers. It could be possible, and it's not a bad idea, just one that I don't personally value as much as your illness one (which I think is actually unique on this forum). Further, if bullets are left anonymous (you don't know who shot you) then knowing nicknames is only of vague use. Certainly something should be done to help recognize players in the game but illuminating it as an "anti-bandit" technique, even if it's worth more than that, will just draw flames.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

I am.. perplexed at the ideal of illness! I was going to make an argument against it' date=' however... I thought about it more. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. Provided you don't get sick everyday...

Also, after it rains, rivers, lakes, and the ocean will be slightly toxic (bacterium/contaminated blood? will become runoff and empty into the lakes and whatnot). It would add an entirely new facet to game-play.

I.. I, uh, yeah. I am completely for this sickness element. I just hope that, if it's ever planned to be included, the community gets to discuss exactly how it should work. :D

[/quote']

Thanks, I like it as well. As stated in OP, I don't think it's possible to handle rain globally but I hope it is. Also, at first I was thinking only about cold/flu/pneumonia illness but you guys are right that it's easy to get an infection from all the filth around us. I don't think it should be that different symptoms-wise (please, don't add diarrhea. It would be silly and would encourage trolling) but maybe it would require different medicines. Anyway, simple cold getting worse is a good start IMO.

LOL!

And anyone who has ever tried to do anything with a high fever and "the chills" probably wouldn't argue about the fatigue and even shaking while trying to get off a shot.

Make it more important to find shelter when it's raining. Make the campfire useful for more than just cooking meat. Add more drugs to the game. If there is ever a wildcraft foraging system added to the mod then collecting those herbs and bark for a hot cup of medicinal brew might be pretty interesting.

---

Also' date=' remember about other suggestions as well. For example, if you can recognize player's nickname it will be easier for you to be allowed to join somebody's "camp" if you're not a famous bandit. This is some sort of a punishment for bandits that so many people crave for, but this one is realistic, for a change.

[/quote']

Heh, I liked your other ideas too. But that's the chance you take when you post a bunch of ideas in a singular thread... You might try adding your ideas to the "wish list" thread (see the bottom of this post for the link) like some of the rest of us have.

Food, well there are a lot of posts suggesting changes to the food system and all I can say is I hope the devs have that somewhere on their "to do" list by now. I think a lot of the "eat a whole cow" thing will go away if blood regeneration over time is added and the ability of steaks to replentish blood, like magic, is removed. On a tangent a modified illness system could actually slowly lower your blood...

The problem with nicknames showing up, *I think*, is that name identification, etc. is tied very deeply to specific server settings. I'm not sure how easy that would be to script to work on all servers. It could be possible, and it's not a bad idea, just one that I don't personally value as much as your illness one (which I think is actually unique on this forum). Further, if bullets are left anonymous (you don't know who shot you) then knowing nicknames is only of vague use. Certainly something should be done to help recognize players in the game but illuminating it as an "anti-bandit" technique, even if it's worth more than that, will just draw flames.

I certainly hope that blood regeneration over time will never be implemented, and if it is it will be small, insignificant amounts. 100 units/hour for example. Regenerating blood by eating is absolutely fine, as long as we're not able to eat whole butchery shop in 1 minute. If you're forced to wait with eating a steak until you get hungry again, you won't think that steaks are "overpowered", they will be just fine.

About a shelter and rain... I'd love to see something like this in game but I doubt it's possible. I'm not sure if ArmA can properly recognize that you're indoors (it most probably can but I'm not sure if it's working well enough to be used like this) and if weather is handled locally it will be impossible to use for health changes. But if it is possible, I'd love to see it as realistic, as it takes.

[oktyabr 53]

I certainly hope that blood regeneration over time will never be implemented' date=' and if it is it will be small, insignificant amounts. 100 units/hour for example. Regenerating blood by eating is absolutely fine, as long as we're not able to eat whole butchery shop in 1 minute. If you're forced to wait with eating a steak until you get hungry again, you won't think that steaks are "overpowered", they will be just fine.

About a shelter and rain... I'd love to see something like this in game but I doubt it's possible. I'm not sure if ArmA can properly recognize that you're indoors (it most probably can but I'm not sure if it's working well enough to be used like this) and if weather is handled locally it will be impossible to use for health changes. But if it is possible, I'd love to see it as realistic, as it takes.

[/quote']

Blood regen over time, yes slowly, is far more realistic that using a steak to *instantly* add it back to your body, never mind what happens if you eat a bunch of them. Make it dependent on your health as well... if you are sick, or either your food/water levels are critically low maybe you don't regen any at all (better find that medicine), if you are really sick maybe you loose it. 100 per hour seems a reasonable place to start... I was considering something more along the lines of 10 per minute if you are fed, watered and in good health. Maybe loose 1 per minute if you are sick.

The game monitors collision of rain effects with other objects, that is all that is needed to build a script around.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

I really don't want to go into too much detail, it's just too early for that. Food could speed up the blood regeneration, it could do hundreds of things, it doesn't matter - balance is for later. What I want to see is the effect, which is that eating 8 steaks should not be a way of regenerating big & of health like it is right now. With this, and with illness, the survival part of game will be nearly flawless.

There's one issue I thought of regarding rain. People will be disconnecting every time it's raining, which means empty servers, which means no fun. Think about it - there's nothing beneficial in rain right now. Add illness and you'd be stupid to continue playing of you don't have medicines with you.

My mate made another suggestion - clothes that protect you from rain. You could put them in your accessories slot without changing appearance. That would (at least partially) fix the "mass disconnect" issue but would it be enough? I don't know.

[oktyabr 53]

There's one issue I thought of regarding rain. People will be disconnecting every time it's raining' date=' which means empty servers, which means no fun. Think about it - there's nothing beneficial in rain right now. Add illness and you'd be stupid to continue playing of you don't have medicines with you.

My mate made another suggestion - clothes that protect you from rain. You could put them in your accessories slot without changing appearance. That would (at least partially) fix the "mass disconnect" issue but would it be enough? I don't know.

[/quote']

People disconnecting because it's raining? LOL. Good! With only a few dozen servers and 18,000+ players I'm sure the slot wouldn't remain empty for long. ;)

Seriously though, it's rain, not liquid ebola or something. Sure, I'd like to see even hypothermia be considered but even having a realistic chance of getting sick, or more appropriately, a sick person camped out in the rain for hours on end getting sicker from the experience be included. It's a calculated risk, just like playing in the dark (or the light, depending on your viewpoint), or anything else in this mod. Even if a few leave due to the rain there will always be those that take advantage of the situation to gain better loot and locations.

As for nothing beneficial in the rain? Hmmm... it obstructs view at a distance and can help cover movement sounds. I'll take a chance crossing a field, road or other open area in the rain that I might have otherwise avoided.

I too have thought about crafting a rain poncho or something but hadn't posted it yet. And really I think it would be cool if it WAS a visual item. Worried about getting wet? That guy with the poncho just became a higher value target.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

This "non visual item" idea came from concern about engine capabilities. Rocket wants to scrap bandit skins, I don't think he'd be too happy to add ponchos:)

Anyway, we're discussing details here. I'd like to know what community thinks of general idea of illness and other stuff as well.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

Somebody made a suggestion about adding PSD (Post Stress Disorder) and we came to conclusion that drinking alcohol would be a good way of coping with it. It also connects nicely with my idea of illness.

Firstly, obvious stuff - drinking alcohol makes you dizzy and if you drink too much you can even pass out.

Secondly, also kind of obvious - addiction. After drinking for song (long) time you get addicted and you start to feel worse and worse until you drink again. There could be an option of detox but let's not make it too complicated right now.

Lastly - Alcohol makes you less resistant to diseases of all sorts - the more you drink, the bigger is the chance of getting ill.

As you can see, it changes into slippery slope, and it would be incredibly difficult to stay healthy, sane, not addicted and also not starving to death. Yes, it's hard and extremely unfair but if you think about it, it makes sense - in case of apocalypse of any sort the main enemy would be our fragile bodies, that's the first thing to take care of - shelter, medicines, food and fresh water, not shotguns and sniper rifles.

[Filterfreaker 1]

I was going to dismiss the illness idea altogheter because i tought it sounded stupid. But. I also have to say i bloody like the idea. The common cold thing is a little lame tbh. Spice it up. Give players the chanche to get infected, or get influenza or bitten by a poisonus animal.. So a player gets sick, sitting by a fire is boring. Make it a mini mission. I.e get sick, find the anti-dote, experimental vaccine against the zombie infection or in the case of influenza find antibiotics. To further complicated, bitten by poisonus animal, only the player is affected. Catch the influenza, player is contageous after displaying symptoms (vomiting, bleaked colours, brighter lights), infected by zombie disease, players corpse is contageous to those wholoot. Bottom line, all three conditions lead to death and affect other players and forces you and/or your group on a mission or quest. Sorry for spelling and grammar, written on my phone.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

I was going to dismiss the illness idea altogheter because i tought it sounded stupid. But. I also have to say i bloody like the idea. The common cold thing is a little lame tbh. Spice it up. Give players the chanche to get infected' date=' or get influenza or bitten by a poisonus animal.. So a player gets sick, sitting by a fire is boring. Make it a mini mission. I.e get sick, find the anti-dote, experimental vaccine against the zombie infection or in the case of influenza find antibiotics. To further complicated, bitten by poisonus animal, only the player is affected. Catch the influenza, player is contageous after displaying symptoms (vomiting, bleaked colours, brighter lights), infected by zombie disease, players corpse is contageous to those wholoot. Bottom line, all three conditions lead to death and affect other players and forces you and/or your group on a mission or quest. Sorry for spelling and grammar, written on my phone.

[/quote']

It's quite cool but I think that "quest illness" should be extremely rare and happen only if you enter specific areas, unreachable for beginners. If you catch "zombieitis" and you have to look for some rare mysterious drug while having only a Makarov and some bandages you'll most probably kill yourself. Especially if you're completely fresh and have no idea whatsoever what's going on.

On the other hand, if you catch common cold and you slowly start to feel worse and worse (maybe by having text messages like "It looks like you have a fever" and such) you'll know what to do, it's common sense. You'll also know what to avoid and what can happen if you won't fight the illness - you can get pneumonia and die, and even before that it's quite easy to imagine that simple sneeze can cost you life, so you'll start acting accordingly as soon as possible, even if you're new to the game.

Again - I like the idea of serious infections, and quest illnesses would be nice as well but they shouldn't be too common because that would make this mod unplayable. Make it a factor of risk-reward mechanism, raise the risk of being infected with something nasty close to places with high tier loot, that would be fine, I think.

[Nedak 10]

If we're adding realism how about only needing to eat once every 24 hours (maybe even 3 times) and only needing to drink every so often.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

You (should) drink way more often than 3 times a day. Your activity should be a factor as well. If you run a lot (90+% of cases in DayZ) you should eat and drink more. I think it's fine as it is for now - we have to eat and drink slightly more often than IRL but we're also very active. It would be nice to see some actual simulation in this regard in future.

[raphier 4]

I don't like the idea of illness. but I think water could be contaminated. Overdose it and you may die of illness, or you keep eating antibiotics in same time to keep it at minimum. Makes hunting for clean water even more important.

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

You don't like this idea because... Can we agree to be constructive here?

[LanceUppercut 7]

why do we not piss and shit in the game.... game needs more realism

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

Still not constructive. Using straw man is not going to help this discussion. Illness is not the same as pissing. The latter makes little to no difference to your chance of surviving the day while former is one of the first things you'd think about when faced with similar situation (even without zombies). You could argue that smell of urine could attract zombies but that's too much hassle for no gain. Nobody's dumb enough to go for a wee close to any zeds.

So yeah, if you think that illness is a bad idea give a reason, mocking is pointless, which makes your post as valuable as spam.

[Bower 4]

add a feature of displaying player's nickname after some time of looking at him/her. People will adjust quickly' date=' I'm sure.[/quote']

I really like this idea. Mousing over people's characters to get a name is a bit of an immersion breaker for me but there really needs to be some way to identify people you've encountered before. I play on vet servers so it's impossible right now as the skins are so similar.

[LanceUppercut 7]

Still not constructive. Using straw man is not going to help this discussion. Illness is not the same as pissing. The latter makes little to no difference to your chance of surviving the day while former is one of the first things you'd think about when faced with similar situation (even without zombies). You could argue that smell of urine could attract zombies but that's too much hassle for no gain. Nobody's dumb enough to go for a wee close to any zeds.

So yeah' date=' if you think that illness is a bad idea give a reason, mocking is pointless, which makes your post as valuable as spam.

[/quote']

how am i mocking? i am completely serious, adding urination and defication can add to the tracking aspect of the game

as well as diet, ex. drinking only soda and surviving should have some negative consequences on your health

[thirdrd0@gmail.com 2]

I know that seeing the name seems like it's too much but in fact it's pretty much the same as seeing the face. It's up to you to remember it, there's nothing in game to write it down for you (you could write it down on a piece of paper but that's not horrible or game breaking). If delay is set right (I'd go with 1,5 second for a start and see how is this working in game) it would be really good for gameplay, and with direct channel fixed it would make socializing SO much easier and realistic.

And I really think people would adjust quickly. Of course, at first there will be casualties from people not being able to wait for so long but I believe that after some time we'd create some sort of an etiquette.

And it won't really help bandits, if you think about it, because if a bandit spots you first, he's gonna kill you anyway, so there's no option to recognize him for you. And if you spot him first you still have an upper hand. Third scenario is that you find each other at the same time. Assuming there's no bandit model (if there is this part of a discussion is meaningless) you'll die because the bandit will have the first shot. But as the health system works right now, you'll live long enough to learn his name. So you can have your revenge.