Solution to DayZ's worst problems.(Server hopping,Loggers,Self-defence).

[ComboBreaker 9]

Greetings!

As far as I know,Rocket is not going to make any significant changes to Dayz mod at the moment,focusing on standalone.Since standalone is not as Arma dependant as it's mod-ancestor, most annoying things in the game can be fixed like:

1. Server Hopping that results in weapon and ammunition abundance.Players do not travel around the map,since there are few places that are worth visiting.
   
2. Loggers who obviously make game less fun and fair.Im talking both about PvE and PvP loggers.
   
3. Inability to kill in self-defence and not become a bandit.(yes,if you were hit first,then its self-defence,but what if you were shot at , shooter missed and got shot himself?)
   

Solution:

1. Loot piles are presented not by a weapon/food/equipment models,but rather by a stationary pile of garbage.When you come nearby it,you are given an option to search for loot.Once you've searched it,pile opens an inventory screen,with items that are generated randomly with the same chance as it is now for each item.Then you are able to put stuff inside your backpack or leave loot untouched.Each pile holds loot data for individual,so 2 players can get different loot from the same pile.Why it is needed?Well,each pile sends information to a hive server about it's looter.Searched pile won't give loot to the specified player for 4-7 days(real time!).So,once you've searched every loot pile on Balota's airfield,you will HAVE to move somewhere else! Players will travel to new places whether they like it or not.
   
2. and 3. Each player is surrounded by a big invisible "bubble" that indicates this player's safe zone.It's size should be roughly 4 meters.Basically it is a part of player's hitbox.If someone shoots you and the bullet flies through your " safe zone " , then you are in combat(cant log out,even though you were not damaged) and at the same time you can shoot this player without becomming a bandit,since he started a fight first.You cant log out when there is a zombie inside your "safe zone" even if it is not aggroed.
   

I know that my idea about loot is not perfect.If you have a different approach to it - post it down,just remember that it should be impossible to loot same place on different servers and it should be impossible to affect loot chances of other players to avoid griefing.

Thoughts?Feedback?Was suggested before?

Edited November 15, 2012 by ComboBreaker

[Rage VG 4033]

Greetings!

As far as I know,Rocket is not going to make any significant changes to Dayz mod at the moment,focusing on standalone.Since standalone is not as Arma dependant as it's mod-ancestor, most annoying things in the game can be fixed like:

1. Server Hopping that results in weapon and ammunition abundance.Players do not travel around the map,since there are few places that are worth visiting.
   
2. Loggers who obviously make game less fun and fair.Im talking both about PvE and PvP loggers.
   
3. Inability to kill in self-defence and not become a bandit.(yes,if you were hit first,then its self-defence,but what if you were shot at , shooter missed and got shot himself?)
   

Solution:

1. Loot piles are presented not by a weapon/food/equipment models,but rather by a stationary pile of garbage.When you come nearby it,you are given an option to search for loot.Once you've searched it,pile opens an inventory screen,with items that are generated randomly with the same chance as it is now for each item.Then you are able to put stuff inside your backpack or leave loot untouched.Each pile holds loot data for individual,so 2 players can get different loot from the same pile.Why it is needed?Well,each pile sends information to a hive server about it's looter.Searched pile won't give loot to the specified player for 4-7 days(real time!).So,once you've searched every loot pile on Balota's airfield,you will HAVE to move somewhere else! Players will travel to new places whether they like it or not.
   
2. and 3. Each player is surrounded by a big invisible "bubble" that indicates this player's safe zone.It's size should be roughly 4 meters.Basically it is a part of player's hitbox.If someone shoots you and the bullet flies through your " safe zone " , then you are in combat(cant log out,even though you were not damaged) and at the same time you can shoot this player without becomming a bandit,since he started a fight first.You cant log out when there is a zombie inside your "safe zone" even if it is not aggroed.
   

Thoughts?Feedback?Was suggested before?

On #1, A lot of the time when I am looting, I want to do it fast. I do this by running through an area with loot and looking at what's on the floor, and deciding if it's worth stopping for. If they all look the same, I'd be looking through a lot of tin cans.

#2&3 sounds like a great idea, however.

Now, think of a solution that will fix both hacking, and how to convince doors that legs aren't their enemy, and I'll give you a cookie.

[iamlegend (DayZ) 14]

These are good ideas... about #1, why can't it be a loot location instead of a loot pile? i mean if someone looted a market in Cherno in server X, then there will be no loot for him in server Y

Edited November 14, 2012 by iamlegend

[Rage VG 4033]

These are good ideas... about #1, why can't it be a loot location instead of a loot pile? i mean if someone looted a market in Cherno in server X, then there will be no loot for him in server Y

Because then it would make looting too easy. A vital part of looting is the possibility of someone being there before you. if everyone had their own "loot instances" every loot spot would have something for you. I believe that someone should be unable to pick up the loot for a predetermined amount of time in any server.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Rage VG

[ComboBreaker 9]

On #1, A lot of the time when I am looting, I want to do it fast. I do this by running through an area with loot and looking at what's on the floor, and deciding if it's worth stopping for. If they all look the same, I'd be looking through a lot of tin cans.

Yeah,Rage,that'd be annoying as hell to check out each pile...I would not have anything against though if I knew that every weapon in the game was found in a "fair" fation.Looting huge places would require even more teamwork,as scavenger would spend more time on searching gear and supplies.

And to avoid annyance , loot piles could be reduced in numbers and chances of decent gear could be upped to balance it out.

P.S. : I dont think that cheating will be a problem in upcomming standalonge =)

[Rage VG 4033]

Yeah,Rage,that'd be annoying as hell to check out each pile...I would not have anything against though if I knew that every weapon in the game was found in a "fair" fation.Looting huge places would require even more teamwork,as scavenger would spend more time on searching gear and supplies.

Then that is punishing the Lone Wolf players, which is about 70% of the game.

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

1. As it is when you log in to a server in a lootable area loot doesnt spawn for a while around you (maybe it should be you cannot loot anything within a radius of your spawn point for a set time)

Or make it so you cannot loot anything after log in for 5 minutes :P

2. The new system of "in combat" is quite good

3. Get rid bandit skins, silly idea tbh

(Altho if was up to me i would get rid of saved positions from server to server and you start at coast if join new server, But with same inventory tho lol)

Edited November 14, 2012 by jaytmuk

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

The loot system you suggest sounds like an MMO style dice roll thing, Is a bad path to go down

[iamlegend (DayZ) 14]

Because then it would make looting too easy. A vital part of looting is the possibility of someone being there before you. if everyone had their own "loot instances" every loot spot would have something for you. I believe that someone should be unable to pick up the loot for a predetermined amount of time in any server.

More like: player, location, loot

Player logs in server X

Player enters market in Cherno: no loot.

Player logs out, logs in server Y

Player enters market in Cherno: no loot.

After entering a loot location, the loot for that specific location would be synchronized with the player at hive level...

Hmm never mind this is too complex...

[Rage VG 4033]

More like: player, location, loot

Player logs in server X

Player enters market in Cherno: no loot.

Player logs out, logs in server Y

Player enters market in Cherno: no loot.

After entering a loot location, the loot for that specific location would be synchronized with the player at hive level...

Hmm never mind this is too complex...

If you're suggesting that the loot wouldn't appear for anyone if another player on the server had looted the spot on a different server, then it could be used for trolling. Just go to a common loot spot on an empty server, loot it all, then hop onto every server. Nobody gets loot.

[iamlegend (DayZ) 14]

If you're suggesting that the loot wouldn't appear for anyone if another player on the server had looted the spot on a different server, then it could be used for trolling. Just go to a common loot spot on an empty server, loot it all, then hop onto every server. Nobody gets loot.

No, not for everyone just for the looter!

Maybe i'm expressing it wrong.

What would happen is that, if Johnny looted a market in Elektro in server X, he would see the same remaining loot in server Y, but Wendy would still be able to loot everything in server Y.

[Rage VG 4033]

No, not for everyone just for the looter!

Maybe i'm expressing it wrong.

What would happen is that, if Johnny looted a market in Elektro in server X, he would see the same remaining loot in server Y, but Wendy would still be able to loot everything in server Y.

I think I get what you mean.

Be right back, I'm going to draw a picture to illustrate this.

Because I can.

EDIT: Is THIS what you mean?

Edited November 14, 2012 by Rage VG

[Mandalore (DayZ) 76]

I like 2 and 3 but 1 is out of the question.

If you were to modify loot just make it respawn after X time no matter what, with the exception of crashed helicopters.

X being whatever.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Mandalore

[seddrik 44]

Seems all a bit strange. I understand the desire to hinder server hopping... but this is going to make the game so much more tedious to have to open every loot drop manually to search it.

Also, you can farm a spot faster than you can server hop. Take the Stary tents as an example. Clear tents one after the other and they will respawn before you get done. So whats the difference in the end?

Suggesting no respawned loot for that individual for 5-7 days will kill the playability of the game. Most places I don't bother looting because they don't drop anything I am looking for. So, if the few places I do look don't reloot for days... what do you think I'm gonna do for those days? Go play something else... or perhaps start killing people to get their gear?

Edited November 14, 2012 by Seddrik

[ComboBreaker 9]

I know that my idea about loot is not perfect.If you have a different approach to it - post it down,just remember that it should be impossible to loot same place on different servers and it should be impossible to affect loot chances of other players to avoid griefing.

When the standalone will come,cheaters and dupers will not be a common problem like they are now.When duping and cheating will dissapear(lets hope for it),people will start to use other ways of getting gear without effort - and server hopping will become a new DayZ's cancer.

Whats bad about MMO type of looting?As it stands now , all weapons appear when you are near 120 m. away from loot point,so its basically the same thing.

and to

1).Also, you can farm a spot faster than you can server hop. Take the Stary tents as an example. Clear tents one after the other and they will respawn before you get done. So whats the difference in the end?

2).Suggesting no respawned loot for that individual for 5-7 days will kill the playability of the game. Most places I don't bother looting because they don't drop anything I am looking for. So, if the few places I do look don't reloot for days... what do you think I'm gonna do for those days? Go play something else... or perhaps start killing people to get their gear?

1).The difference that it becomes impossible to farm loot.Besides,I dont see a huge difference between farmer and server hopper - you are using the same place you've searched more than 1 time in a row.

2).If you like DayZ you won't be waiting for 5-7 days to gather loot in the same place - you'll travel somewhere else.There are 3 airfields,few military bases and a lot of civilian-military structures already - enough for 5 days if you are on foot.Dont forget that in the standalone the map will be bigger,so you'll have a plenty of places that would be worth visiting.DayZ is an Antigame(quote from Rocket) so it does not have to be nice to player.For realism's sake you would not stay in the same place after you've looted it - you would move somewhere else.

Edited November 15, 2012 by ComboBreaker

[DayZoey 110]

Ideas 2 and 3 are great ideas because they're actually within the realm of possibility without an over abundance of effort. I liked Rocket's idea of if you disconnect in a way that isn't a clean disconnection, your avatar sits down for like... a minute and you can be killed even if you're not in game. Alt+F4ing is in essence cheating and it is a bit lame when people do it simply because they don't want to lose their stuff.

As for the looting problem... Eh... There's quite literally no way to make a system that does both: prevents people from taking advantage of it and doesn't hinder the experience for people who don't take advantage. This may sound mean but it's not meant to be: suck it up dude, there are always people who try to cheat or "best" the system to get what they want. Whether it's server hopping, area farming or whatever else anyone can think of if there's a weakness in the system that exists there are people who will exploit it.

Which is why I think the statement "hackers, dupers and cheaters will not be a problem with SA" is a very naive statement. There will always be hackers, dupers and cheaters no matter what. SA costing money will cut down on the number of hackers maybe but there are people who are so dedicated to cheating that they would buy more and more copies of a game to do it.

Ever hear of MinnesotaBurns? Well if you haven't, go youtube him. This guy is quite literally a professional Call of Duty youtube troll, he is doing nothing against the XBox Live terms and conditions (aside from possible harassment), he's not hacking his system and he's been banned -repeatedly- from XBL and has had multiple locked consoles (basically Microsoft removes the system's ability to access XBL remotely) and still he continues. This guy must have spent over two thousand dollars in consoles simply because he is dedicated to trolling people on Xbox Live. There are people who will take hacking, duping and other means of cheating to that extreme because it's the only way they can have fun. If somehow they are besting the system and making other people suffer for it.

Personally I think these people should be doused in Kerosene and have a lit matches thrown at them until one catches but since cheating in a video game isn't a capitol crime, it's not something that warrants a death sentence.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

I think games have gradually influenced people to cheat over the past couple decades of gaming. Press Left, Left, Up, Down, A, A, START! You have now unlocked the invincibility cheat code!

Now people look for ways in forms of glitches even, like .. Hey, if you lean against this wall, look up in the left hand corner and reload your weapon.. You'll get sucked into the wall and be able to shoot out of it and no one can see you!

Until a game makes an ever solid game and is vigilante on fixing any exploits you will always have this... Computer gaming, is by far the worst out of all the gaming because people can get access easily to the files.

[nobody 31]

Self-defense?Almost 90% suggestions is to make dayz more reallistic.And in real life, it doesnt matter if you killed in self defese or not... you killed, you are murderer.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Ladas325

[DayZoey 110]

In the justice system murder in self defense is classified as "Man slaughter" I think but... yeah, it's still murder.

The problem is that without civilization, we no longer classify crimes in such a fashion. Crime isn't something that exists anymore, theft, destruction of property, murder, these are all things that are needed to be done to survive.

So given the context, maybe having a "Murder vs Kill" score really is moot to begin with. Maybe the game should just keep track of kills in general, rather than self defense kills versus flat out "murder".

Edited November 15, 2012 by DayZoey

[FatDucksAss 0]

Then that is punishing the Lone Wolf players, which is about 70% of the game.

It isn't punishing it is realism, If we we're playing a racing game and I had a ferrari and you had a Ford T model, is it unfair for you because you think the Ford T looks better, no its your decision,and its people who decide to 'lone wolf's decision

[FatDucksAss 0]

Self-defense?Almost 90% suggestions is to make dayz more reallistic.And in real life, it doesnt matter if you killed in self defese or not... you killed, you are murderer.

you're forgetting that this is a post apocalyptic world, when people say realistic, they mean realistic if we were living in a world where there are people and ''people'' that want something from you in order to survive.

[Rage VG 4033]

It isn't punishing it is realism, If we we're playing a racing game and I had a ferrari and you had a Ford T model, is it unfair for you because you think the Ford T looks better, no its your decision,and its people who decide to 'lone wolf's decision

There's no "realistic" way to improve looting with a group. It's already better to loot in groups as it as, for the same reasons it would be IRL (More people to carry it, a wider search area, and it gets done faster).

[harley001 315]

I like the ideal of the loot piles (though I think the timer should only be 24 hours) but the bubble suggestion has been suggested many times. It could work but I have never got the bandit skin unless I wanted the bandit skin so I don't know how everyone manages to have so many accounts of self defense without the bandit hitting them at all.. (BACK IN MY DAY BANDITS COULD ACTUALLY AIM!)

Edited March 30, 2013 by harley001