Creating Authentic Trust (Not realistic trust, it would take years)

[hoik 415]

This is based on alot of good ideas I've read here - and for all those complain it is unrealist or imposess on your freedom of choice, take a deep breath and just try to let it slide. Freedom and responsibility go hand in hand - we goven ourselves with laws to curb our selfish impulses.

Sermen over :p

This idea is to create trust within groups and make "backstabing" a challenge for bandits. The only thing it would need is a single large backpack and a group of +3, so here goes:

When a group of players decide to form a group one of them can designate their backpack as the "Shared Backpack" this increases the holding capacity of the backpack - but also makes it heavier (there has to be a trade off - this will also encourage a team mentality as the person with the shared backpack is now more vulnerable).

Now everyone who wishes to join the group has to put a stake (an item) in the "Shared Backpack" to be consided trust worthy - the larger the stake the higher the trust. Dont contribute and you ARE NOT welcome.

For simplicity, everyone can access the "Shared Backpack" by aproaching the holder and directly accessing it, but ultimatly I think it would be better if everyone could access it at any time from a window next to your own inventry when you bring it up (Though this would require some sort of list of who has access and might make things too complicated)

Now the group has an invested value without imposing any artifical rules.

It will require a significant investment to make people trust you (either time or items) - this makes "backstabing" require alot more tackt.

It lets you have a trust sytem based on items that can range form 0 to 95% according to the items value (There is no such thing as absolute trust)

Thinking about it, you could implement this system yourselves right now - a larger backpack with more weight just adds another layer of group cohesion.

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"You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead, hands..."

This is a second idea that has cross ties to the first.

On spawn players have two (or so) of their items designated as "in yor death grip"(symbolised by a hand icon). This means that the only way others can get their hands on them is if you put a bullet in your head. Any item can be re-asigned your deathgrip at anytime.

With relation to the "Shared backpack" this can be a way of putting an item in the shared backpack but indicat that it is still yours - other players can not remove it form the back pack (till you die).

I think this idea could impact on different areas of the game in many ways, from a mechanic to make negotion a possibility in a surrender situation, to a chance when you get murderded your "death grip" items have a chance of being stuck in your death grip and therfore unlootable - and because your death grip will always be on your best items this will make murder a vey large gamble (you should be able to see it but cant loot it :) ).

These are very solid solutions (IMHO)

[Boonshniggle 0]

Too many big picture flaws I would say. Primarily what about when the person carrying the "shared" backpack logs off and then isn't online at the same time or same server as the people he was teamed up with before? Also, what about the person carrying that backpack's connection goes to crap all of a sudden and they disconnect?

On another note I think not teaming up with people is a non-issue. The only real issue here is the mass amount of Killing on Sight type deathmatch gameplay that is going on a lot more and at times seems to be accelerating, that's just not realistic, but people going at it alone is.

The death grip idea is just waaaaay too far a move away from how unforgiving and hardcore the game is intended to be, perma-death and full looting of corpses adds way too much to the game's experience. This mechanic kinda ruins both of those at once.

You really need to understand this is supposed to be an as accurate and real to life zombie apocalypse SIMULATOR, not a game.

Pretty sure the devs intend to support being a "lone-wolf" as a valid play style for the game, this gimps them far too much.

[punisher_1 3]

Heres a thought

When you team with a player there is a game mechanic that does not allow you to shoot each other.

It works something like this.

Player Bob sees player Tom and asks " Are you Friendly?" Tom replies yes

Bob suggests that they team up and Tom agrees.

Bob clicks on Toms character like the direct communication option and a menu pops up with two commands. Team or disband player

This creates a non-shoot mechanic between those two players. Thus killing each other is not possible. To break the mechanic both players agree to the break in partnership.

I know what your saying thats not realistic but then what can you do? Anyone will be a dick and lie to get whatever they want. I have seen it in other games and even those that are on yout team speak. So while you think you can trust somone you cannot.

This mechanic locks in the fact someone cannot shoot you thus imposing a "moral obligation" which keeps both parties confident that a player will not go rouge.

I'll also post this as a stand alone suggestion.

[Marshy (DayZ) 0]

How does this encourage trust in any way? If anything it makes it easier for bandits to kill players. They throw some stuff in said bag and when they turn their back the bandit kills them and takes the stuff. The death grip mechanic 1) doesn't make sense because deathgrip wouldn't be strong enough to prevent people from looting, 2) has nothing to do with trust, it's just punishing players who kill other players.

Unsound and pointless.

[Boonshniggle 0]

Heres a thought

When you team with a player there is a game mechanic that does not allow you to shoot each other.

It works something like this.

Player Bob sees player Tom and asks " Are you Friendly?" Tom replies yes

Bob suggests that they team up and Tom agrees.

Bob clicks on Toms character like the direct communication option and a menu pops up with two commands. Team or disband player

This creates a non-shoot mechanic between those two players. Thus killing each other is not possible. To break the mechanic both players agree to the break in partnership.

I know what your saying thats not realistic but then what can you do? Anyone will be a dick and lie to get whatever they want. I have seen it in other games and even those that are on yout team speak. So while you think you can trust somone you cannot.

This mechanic locks in the fact someone cannot shoot you thus imposing a "moral obligation" which keeps both parties confident that a player will not go rouge.

I'll also post this as a stand alone suggestion.

Stop it with these suggestions please, they just will never happen, accept that, and move on. There will never ever be a mechanic to keep you from shooting ANYTHING, you're kind of missing the entire point of the mod here dude.

[robosheriff 13]

Punisher your idea is awful not sure about the OP, it doesn't encourages trust for teaming up in any way.

[Gaidoon 19]

I invite people to Skype and they Trust me pretty quick i think if more people heard a voice to add to a name their would be more trust.

[logan23 118]

Trust comes from spending time with another player.

If you and another player worked together and actually saved each others butts where Zed could have killed you.

Also another one is to be the better person and tell the other player they can have first pick on what you guys find. You can even exchange ammo, food, bandages. If the fellow player is low on clips and you have 5 or 6 spare- offer one or two go the person.

I have meet friendly survivors who gave me a spare clip. I later did the same for a different player.

The only way to build trust is to ask what would somone need to do to get yours.

But always be cautious.

Spread the friendly spirit and hunt down those who kill noobs and for sport.

[hoik 415]

Too many big picture flaws I would say. Primarily what about when the person carrying the "shared" backpack logs off and then isn't online at the same time or same server as the people he was teamed up with before? Also' date=' what about the person carrying that backpack's connection goes to crap all of a sudden and they disconnect?

[/quote']

Right yep - missed that one. Easily resolved though - when a player with a "shared backpack" disconnects the shared pack is droped and his/her items are taken from the pack. Its the equivelent of that player leaving the group - the group then decides who should take on that responsibility. (The reason their loot is automaticly removed is so not to punish the bag carrier - it infact infers the amount of trust the other players have in them)

On another note I think not teaming up with people is a non-issue. The only real issue here is the mass amount of Killing on Sight type deathmatch gameplay that is going on a lot more and at times seems to be accelerating' date=' that's just not realistic, but people going at it alone is.

[/quote']

Teaming up may not be a issue, but building trust and requiring new comers to prove themselves is an authentic experience of a zombie apocolyspe (IMO). This system facilitates this by letting you determine who you can put the most trust in - the value is measured in both time and value of their contribution (it can be one or the other, or both).

The death grip idea is just waaaaay too far a move away from how unforgiving and hardcore the game is intended to be' date=' perma-death and full looting of corpses adds way too much to the game's experience. This mechanic kinda ruins both of those at once.

[/quote']

I admit it requires some "artistic licence". Im not sure if you misunderstood but i'll clarify anyway - a "death grip" is ONLY to designate items as unlootable if a murder is commited, it is not kept by the player to be used on their next life - so effects perma death in no way.

How this is a step way too far from the "hardcore/unforgiving nature" of the game is unclear to me - Why is full looting of corpse so vital to the games hardcore nature?? (and please, please don't say because its unrealistic).

You really need to understand this is supposed to be an as accurate and real to life zombie apocalypse SIMULATOR' date=' not a game.

[/quote']

You really need to understand that it will NEVER be a acurate simulator because this relies on true freedom, real concequences and for everyone in the game to have a genuine intrinsic value as HUMAN BEINGS rather than infinte reincarnations. As the players dont value anything more than loot THAT is where you have to hit them.

I have tried my hand (both here: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=12557 and here http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10295 ) at comming up with a mechanic that would create total freedom and give a global value to everyone in the game - please read them - I would prefer this but people seem to CRAVE rules to let them easily define trust as well as identify if an action is right or wrong - a death grip facilitate this without a black/white answer.

Pretty sure the devs intend to support being a "lone-wolf" as a valid play style for the game' date=' this gimps them far too much.

[/quote']

Lone-wolf does not = mindless killer.

In my opinion (and I think this is everyones, as it a issue that comes up over and over again) mindless killing gimps everyone else in the game - this doesn't gimp "lone-wolves" OR psychopathic killers - all it does is make them pay a price for quick rewards, just as those who search buildings for loot pay a price in time spent.

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How does this encourage trust in any way? If anything it makes it easier for bandits to kill players. They throw some stuff in said bag and when they turn their back the bandit kills them and takes the stuff. The death grip mechanic 1) doesn't make sense because deathgrip wouldn't be strong enough to prevent people from looting' date=' 2) has nothing to do with trust, it's just punishing players who kill other players.

Unsound and pointless.

[/quote']

You should note the proviso that this idea will only work with A. A large backpack and B. (heres the imporatnt bit) a group of 3+.

Its a trust exercise not a inforced solution - you have to be observant and think about the reasons why people are doing what thay are doing.

In your example a bandit pops out of no where - says "its cool, you can trust me, i'll put my best item in as proof". This would imediatly ring alarm bells to anyone with with a suspicious nature. As a group you would see this offering as suspicious and treat the new comer with caution.

Lastly its not meant to stop ANY kind of PvP, Like I said before its just a way to asign the same punishment those who chose kill/looting in the same way THEY are dishing out punishment on other people.

Kill/looter pays in choice.

Scavager pays in time invested.

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Trust comes from spending time with another player.

If you and another player worked together and actually saved each others butts where Zed could have killed you.

Also another one is to be the better person and tell the other player they can have first pick on what you guys find. You can even exchange ammo' date=' food, bandages. If the fellow player is low on clips and you have 5 or 6 spare- offer one or two go the person.

I have meet friendly survivors who gave me a spare clip. I later did the same for a different player.

The only way to build trust is to ask what would somone need to do to get yours.

But always be cautious.

Spread the friendly spirit and hunt down those who kill noobs and for sport.

[/quote']

I agree 100%. I mean, my first suggestion is essentially a BACKPACK! The rest is common sense...