Lets not make bandits worse, lets make heroes better.

[lenny562 2]

There should be more skins for higher humanity because being a bandit is too easy everyone just shoots each other on sight.

We should have 6k Hero skin, 12k Hero2 skin, 18k Hero3 skin and so on. Something to give incentive to those who do good. Nothing over the top that give players an advantage over others just cosmetic stuff.

[Rastamaus 323]

There should be more skins for higher humanity because being a bandit is too easy everyone just shoots each other on sight.

We should have 6k Hero skin, 12k Hero2 skin, 18k Hero3 skin and so on. Something to give incentive to those who do good. Nothing over the top that give players an advantage over others just cosmetic stuff.

What is this bizarre obsession with incentivising being 'good' all about? Where has it come from?

Don't get me wrong, this game needs nice, friendly helpful souls who get us out of the shit and generally restore our faith in human nature, it also needs arseholes and kill on sighters who help to generate the atmosphere of constant tension and fear that keeps us coming back for more, but genuinely decent folks don't need a special outfit to feel good about themselves or to show the world how damned nice they are, being nice is it's own reward.

If, as I suspect, this obsession with incentivising goodness is actually about not wanting to get shot all the time then try working on your game. Every time I've died in DayZ (glitches/hackers aside) it's been entirely my fault. Whether it's noobishness, over confidence, carelessness, crappy shooting, not looking around, trusting the wrong person, running in the open, general stupidity or just plain bad gameplay - whatever the reasons, I alone am to blame.

I don't think to myself ''This game is fucked, i'm getting killed all the time, how can we fix this? I know, lets punish killers and reward kindness, make it so the killers become kinder so they'll kill me less''.

I work at improving my game.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Rastamaus

[ccardali@gmail.com 22]

I mostly agree with this.

I don't see how this would be punishing banditry. Rewarding people for being "good" doesn't stop people from being bandits. Bandits will be bandits as long as there's PvP, no matter what the reward system is.

[Philip Omnis 2]

I think we need to pretend here, for all intents and purposes, that there -has- to be an incentive for being good, purely to speculate what would actually work for the developers.

I'm hearing a lot of "Don't need it." which is all fine and well, but doesn't actually add anything constructive to the discussion. The OP isn't going to hear a thousand guys say something along the lines of "unnecessary" and then suddenly change his mind, no he's going to keep pressing the issue, and rightly so. I was recently swarmed by a clan of nine due to my own clumsiness. In the name of non-lethality I make a point of only carrying a hatchet and being as inoffensive as possible (without complying.) What happened? I still got shot. And for the first time in DayZ I felt like I was experiencing something both bland and monotonous. There was no fun in the situation and I felt apathetic to the whole thing, so when I died I neither interested nor caring for it. The one major issue with PVP is that you're having your fun at the expense of somebody else's. Not everybody, of course, because some people enjoy that, just like some people don't.

But my point is; a bandit pathway, the most common at this time, brings nothing to the table in terms of social interaction for a fair amount of players (enough to spawn a couple of these threads every so often) and subsequently nobody feels compelled to play anymore. I've heard from other long-term DayZ players that originally there were a lot more nicer players. Not to do the whole post hoc ergo propter hoc crap, but maybe this is indicating that the shortfall in good players is because they've left due to nothing to do. In which case, how do you intend on gaining longevity for DayZ, when attracting only -one- type of gamer.

I think it's very finicky, the whole concept, and don't think it's the answer that would solve most of the problems in motivating morality in players. So let's not dismiss ideas without a thought, but brainstorm together!

[Agiantstick 15]

I think we need to pretend here, for all intents and purposes, that there -has- to be an incentive for being good, purely to speculate what would actually work for the developers.

I'm hearing a lot of "Don't need it." which is all fine and well, but doesn't actually add anything constructive to the discussion. The OP isn't going to hear a thousand guys say something along the lines of "unnecessary" and then suddenly change his mind, no he's going to keep pressing the issue, and rightly so. I was recently swarmed by a clan of nine due to my own clumsiness. In the name of non-lethality I make a point of only carrying a hatchet and being as inoffensive as possible (without complying.) What happened? I still got shot. And for the first time in DayZ I felt like I was experiencing something both bland and monotonous. There was no fun in the situation and I felt apathetic to the whole thing, so when I died I neither interested nor caring for it. The one major issue with PVP is that you're having your fun at the expense of somebody else's. Not everybody, of course, because some people enjoy that, just like some people don't.

But my point is; a bandit pathway, the most common at this time, brings nothing to the table in terms of social interaction for a fair amount of players (enough to spawn a couple of these threads every so often) and subsequently nobody feels compelled to play anymore. I've heard from other long-term DayZ players that originally there were a lot more nicer players. Not to do the whole post hoc ergo propter hoc crap, but maybe this is indicating that the shortfall in good players is because they've left due to nothing to do. In which case, how do you intend on gaining longevity for DayZ, when attracting only -one- type of gamer.

I think it's very finicky, the whole concept, and don't think it's the answer that would solve most of the problems in motivating morality in players. So let's not dismiss ideas without a thought, but brainstorm together!

Exactly what he said. My point in this is not to punish bandits. Bandits already have a, for lack of a better word, overpowered playstyle. The heroes are handicapped due to the nature of bandits and survivors of the like not trusting anyone and shooting whatever comes in their path.

Surely you all agree that there is a disproportionate amount of bandits to heroes? And though that would probably be true in a real life scenario, this isn't real life.

I point out that there's magically respawning loot in every building. But everyone here will suspend their disbelief when it comes to that, why can you not suspend your disbelief when there is a system that rewards people for being good?

Shouldn't there be more of a reward when you're basically playing the game with a gimped playstyle?

I also don't want to punish bandits, I never said that. I want to reward the ones that don't play the cut and dry way of shooting first and asking questions later and want to play the game a bit more interestingly.

And yes, these ideas are not end all be all solutions. Rewarding players with some benefits of playing heroes which may not be inherently beneficial at first but over time it becomes more and more rewarding could just be another playstyle over the short term instant gratification of being a bandit.

[Agiantstick 15]

What is this bizarre obsession with incentivising being 'good' all about? Where has it come from?

Don't get me wrong, this game needs nice, friendly helpful souls who get us out of the shit and generally restore our faith in human nature, it also needs arseholes and kill on sighters who help to generate the atmosphere of constant tension and fear that keeps us coming back for more, but genuinely decent folks don't need a special outfit to feel good about themselves or to show the world how damned nice they are, being nice is it's own reward.

If, as I suspect, this obsession with incentivising goodness is actually about not wanting to get shot all the time then try working on your game. Every time I've died in DayZ (glitches/hackers aside) it's been entirely my fault. Whether it's noobishness, over confidence, carelessness, crappy shooting, not looking around, trusting the wrong person, running in the open, general stupidity or just plain bad gameplay - whatever the reasons, I alone am to blame.

I don't think to myself ''This game is fucked, i'm getting killed all the time, how can we fix this? I know, lets punish killers and reward kindness, make it so the killers become kinder so they'll kill me less''.

I work at improving my game.

To be honest, it has more to do with giving an incentive to try another playstyle rather than it is to get rid some of the evil bastards in this game. I still want bandits, but I want more of and opposing force to bandits. Yes, survivors are all fine and dandy to combat banditry, but survivors are prone to killing each other too. And like I said, I think some more interesting moments will come from DayZ with a larger pool of heroes playing the game.

Also, I never once said I wanted bandits to be punished.

[Agiantstick 15]

There should be more skins for higher humanity because being a bandit is too easy everyone just shoots each other on sight.

We should have 6k Hero skin, 12k Hero2 skin, 18k Hero3 skin and so on. Something to give incentive to those who do good. Nothing over the top that give players an advantage over others just cosmetic stuff.

Skins are all fine and dandy, but heroes will still be playing handicapped, which will probably make people still stray away from being a hero.

[Agiantstick 15]

I like don't perks. I like DayZ because it is one of few games that is crafted and built upon spontaneous player interaction. Especially in the TPS/FPS shooter genre.

Sure lets add skins/custom clothing that people can loot so they can put on and off as they please... so bandits can dress as heros and well intended people and vice versa. Clothing and the dispoisition that it implies should not be dictated by the omnipresent god of RPG stats.

Let players loot medic zombie clothes, become the wasteland medic or the troll you want to be. Let a clan kill zombie police so on that hive they are know on sight as the police in that area, let players loot surgeon zombies to be highly visible therefore obviously well intended peopel (or are they), personally i want to loot a hunter zombie's skin if only for the fur hat.

THIS is how you make 'skins' and role playing realistic, dyanamic and fit the dayz canon. Perks/stats/skill trees? DayZ is over.

I don't want stats.

I want skills, skills that you develop over time or can learn from in books. Skills that don't equate to percentage boosts. Unique skills like making fires without matches, learning how to treat a broken leg without morphine, how to use scrap and trash to make makeshift jury rigged repairs on cars, skinning animals to make clothing, hell even how to make escape ladders and rapples.

But these survival skills won't be permanent, you lose all of them when you die (Ala Diablo's Hardcore Mode) this makes you value your life more without feeling like an RPG. After all, you do learn how to survive better over time and maybe through reading, and of course you lose all knowledge of anything when you're a fresh off the coast survivor.

[Zeppa 562]

Yes "this" is the only kind of system that could be implemented to this game. Something to learn and open to everyone equally.

It could be experience based with touch of "fallout" type of book learning. You could train skills by doing (experience) and learn new skills from lootable books

BUT it cant be "bandits wors, heroes better". NO "side" skills, everyone would have to have all the same skills available but you should choose what you see usefull.

This has been ranted and debated in several threads concerning skills and talents etc, try search.

[Rastamaus 323]

Also, I never once said I wanted bandits to be punished.

rewarding 'goodness' amounts to punishing bandits

[Agiantstick 15]

Yes "this" is the only kind of system that could be implemented to this game. Something to learn and open to everyone equally.

It could be experience based with touch of "fallout" type of book learning. You could train skills by doing (experience) and learn new skills from lootable books

BUT it cant be "bandits wors, heroes better". NO "side" skills, everyone would have to have all the same skills available but you should choose what you see usefull.

This has been ranted and debated in several threads concerning skills and talents etc, try search.

It was a side suggestion, really. I want the hero to be discussed mroe.

[dallas 5195]

I prefer the system as it is, where players chose their paths based on their play style and how they treat strangers they come across in the world. People are free to play as murderers or saints. I don't believe in incentives for being good or bad, it's all about survival, whether you survive with your humanity intact is up to yourself.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Dallas

[Agiantstick 15]

rewarding 'goodness' amounts to punishing bandits

Not necessarily, the reward in the bandit playstyle is the playstyle itself of not being guided by morals, take anything, kill anyone, give a fuck later. Which is great considering there are so many people playing it right now.

Hero playstyle will be weak from the start, as it requires you to play smarter than the bandit as you'll be doing riskier things if you want to keep your humanity. Helping a survivor might cost you your life from a bandit attack, another paranoid survivor, or even the survivor you're helping. Find camping tents with loads of helpful gear in them might tempt you to steal or not to steal and weigh the risks humanity loss. Even though a DMR would be really helpful, would that help you gain back the humanity loss from stealing it.

I just want to give the hero a payoff much like the bandit's so more people are apt to play differently, which might break the flow of the monotonous Elektro deathmatches.

[Agiantstick 15]

I prefer the system as it is, where players chose their paths based on their play style and how they treat strangers they come across in the world. People are free to play as murderers or saints. I don't believe in incentives for being good or bad, it's all about survival, whether you survive with your humanity intact is up to yourself.

Well don't you think some people are forced into a bandit playstyle?

I want to encourage other playstyles. I can't think of another fix besides a reward for playing differently.

[Rastamaus 323]

Well don't you think some people are forced into a bandit playstyle?

I want to encourage other playstyles. I can't think of another fix besides a reward for playing differently.

i do see where you're coming from dude, but have you considered the possibilty that there are just more bastards in the world than good deed doers? people will play the way thier conscience dictates, encouraging or rather trying to impose a differing style on anyone will ruin dayz.

There are rewards for playing differently. As mentioned in several posts above, being a good guy is rewarded, skillfull play is rewarded, team play is rewarded and yes being a total shit is rewarded, I'm not sure what else is needed.

[Agiantstick 15]

i do see where you're coming from dude, but have you considered the possibilty that there are just more bastards in the world than good deed doers? people will play the way thier conscience dictates, encouraging or rather trying to impose a differing style on anyone will ruin dayz.

There are rewards for playing differently. As mentioned in several posts above, being a good guy is rewarded, skillfull play is rewarded, team play is rewarded and yes being a total shit is rewarded, I'm not sure what else is needed.

I don't think letting people play the game differently will ruin DayZ. In fact, I think it will improve it, adding more dynamic gameplay than this static and binary way people deal with others in DayZ (Mostly Chernarus. Side chat on the other maps has helped alleviate some of the paranoia between survivors) Pigeonholing others into this playstyle seems destructive.

It's not like everyone is going to jump ship to be a hero, anyway. It's more about long term gain.

People that like bandity will stay bandits probably because they like not worrying about others and the short term gain of killing others, but people that were forced into banditry may now have a choice.

And as for good guys being rewarded, that is true, but a slight runspeed increase is negligible compared to what the total shit gets: freedom without consequence.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Agiantstick

[Agiantstick 15]

I also think we need to agree on the level of realism in this game.

Should there be skins? Should loot be constantly supplied? Should tents and their items disappear on death? Should destroyed vehicles respawn?'

The argument of realism is subjective, why can't things not be 100% realistic but help the game?

[Philip Omnis 2]

Agian, I think it's safe to say you're not getting through to a lot of people here. I disagree with a lot of your points purely because they break the premise of DayZ's survivalism, however the one that genuinely did get me from your posts is the idea that a good person would be -forced- into banditry. I've been following War Z -ducks to avoid thrown projectiles- and noticed that a lot of players are forced into banditry in that game, because there is more emphasis on inventory and looting. What sort-of horrid, disturbed game should actually force good people to be bad. I mean, the whole damned DayZ community throws faeces at those who disconnect to avoid being killed, but in many cases, what choice do some people have, short of actually having some form of psychotic breakdown (which is actually happening in War Z, I guarantee you =P)

At any rate, Agian, you're not going to get through to the vast majority of people here because your idea punishes -their- gameplay. If rewarding heroes punishes bandits, and there are more bandits than heroes, is the majority going to support your idea? Sadly, no. If anything, you're more likely to see somebody with a 'hero complex' support bandit buffing than a bandit supporting a hero buff by the very nature of their beings XD

[Agiantstick 15]

Agian, I think it's safe to say you're not getting through to a lot of people here. I disagree with a lot of your points purely because they break the premise of DayZ's survivalism, however the one that genuinely did get me from your posts is the idea that a good person would be -forced- into banditry. I've been following War Z -ducks to avoid thrown projectiles- and noticed that a lot of players are forced into banditry in that game, because there is more emphasis on inventory and looting. What sort-of horrid, disturbed game should actually force good people to be bad. I mean, the whole damned DayZ community throws faeces at those who disconnect to avoid being killed, but in many cases, what choice do some people have, short of actually having some form of psychotic breakdown (which is actually happening in War Z, I guarantee you =P)

At any rate, Agian, you're not going to get through to the vast majority of people here because your idea punishes -their- gameplay. If rewarding heroes punishes bandits, and there are more bandits than heroes, is the majority going to support your idea? Sadly, no. If anything, you're more likely to see somebody with a 'hero complex' support bandit buffing than a bandit supporting a hero buff by the very nature of their beings XD

Survivalism would still be there, and honestly it would be more realistic than what DayZ is now, which is a survivor waking up on the beach, running to the nearest military, finding a gun, then running into a high traffic area to kill other people. An apocalypse turns some people into savages, but not all of them.

I'm not calling for punishing bandits. I'm asking for benefits that will make the hero playstyle seem a bit more viable.

Bandits will not be nerfed, Heroes will still be harder to play, but more rewarding in the long term.

Bandits will still have their freedom to shoot on sight, steal, and grief. All the things that make the bandit playstyle better in the first place.

This is more of a request to encourage more playstyles than it is to balance the game.