Reworking Sniping for realism and gameplay

[Nasakenai 34]

Aside from hacking, randomly getting sniped is probably the biggest driver of frustration in DayZ. In a real life zombie apocalypse, ever survivor would not be running around with a .50 caliber or equivalent weapon randomly shooting each other for fun and profit. In my opinion, the reason that this happens is because of flawed game mechanics that do not properly mimic real life – making extremely long range sniper rifles an ideal all-purpose weapon, when in reality they are a specialty weapon. I think these are the root problems:

Availabilty – too common, ammo to easy to find

Adaptability – too easily usable in any sort of fight making there little advantage for using a more close range oriented gun even if you’re fighting close range.

Stealthability – too easy to remain hidden from other players/zombies while sniping.

Ease of use – sniping long distances is far easier than it is in real life.

The .50 guns are the ones where the problem is the most obvious, but the changes I’m suggesting could be applied to other long range guns to a varying degree as well.

AVAILABILTY:

Not really going to talk much about this because the problem should be solved for the most part once hacking is eliminated in the SA. Suffice to say that .50 rounds shouldn’t be found all over the map and neither should other sniper rounds. Ammo should be rare to the point where you are thinking about the cost/benefit of every shot – particularly with the higher end military grade sniper rifles. Missing a shot or two should bring a tear to the eye so to speak. Hunting rifles should be easier to find as well as easier to find ammo for, but should be more limited in the way of optics.

ADAPTABILITY:

This is a major problem with sniper rifles, particularly the one hit one kill .50 stuff. You can run through a town CQB style quickscoping or noscoping people in an entirely unrealistic fashion. This needs to be brought more in line with reality. Here is a US Marine shooting a .50 sniper rifle from a standing position:

As you can see, he’s not likely to hit a thing past maybe 100 yards or so (look at the movement of the barrel before he shoots), the recoil is unmanageable, and there is NO WAY he would be able to go in to a house or clear a room with that – it’s too heavy and would be swaying form side to side as turns corners and moves around due to inertia. Shooting while standing with either .50 should be a waste of time. You should have to be kneeling at a minimum to get a sufficient amount of steadiness for use. If standing/running/turning corners the gun should sway back and for the before centering itself and even centered sway similar to when you’ve just finished running. Players with smaller, lighter guns should have a clear advantage if they’re able to get close enough to use them – to the point where it would be straight stupidity trying to use a huge sniper rifle as an all-purpose weapon. Shooting after making quick turns to left or right should also be handicapped. In other words, if you’re a sniper and somebody gets a flank on you or gets close enough you’d better have close range support or a backup gun in your pack. I also think that for the most steady prone shots you should have to deploy the gun do the ground with a bipod similar to setting up and then using a turret.

STEALTHABILITY: It is currently far to easy for a sniper to find a good spot (possibly not even that remote) and just go to town on everybody who happens to be passing by. They’re far enough away that the “chief danger” of the game – zombies will never show up. Sometimes the players getting shot at can’t even hear where the shots are coming from because they’re so far away, grass and some shrubs are not visible at that range making it hard to for players to hide and easier for them to be spotted, etc.

If shooting a sniper rifle (even rifle in general), depending on the loudness of the gun zombies should spawn a ways off and start heading towards the sound – this would imitate the idea that zombies are in the woods as well and will gravitate towards the loud noises in curiosity. Sniping from the woods shot not render you completely safe from zombies. Extremely loud guns such as .50’s should attract many zombies.

Add realistic audible ranges to larger guns in particular and echos. A .50 shot from an elevated position (hill, etc.) can easily be heard 5 miles away. So yesterday when I was getting shot and hearing nothing but ricochets around me you can understand my surprise (my friend between me and the sniper heard feint AS 50 shots). If some noob is camping elektro with a .50 or there is a large caliber gunfight going on at the airfield, you should be able to hear gunshots and echos from that ON YOUR WAY to the airfield (likely from about the distance of stary sobor) well before you are in range so that you can proceed with caution or go somewhere else.

Add a smoke plume of dust kicked up when firing large caliber rifles prone on the ground. You can see dust being kicked up here:

If you’re shooting from too close, the dust plume should be easy to see after a few seconds, giving away your position. In addition, startled birds should also fly in to the air around the general location. Laying down a shooting mat or dumping water on the ground could prevent or soften the dust plume, which is how real snipers deal with this side effect.

EASE OF USE:

Some of this was covered in othe sections, but sniping is much easier than it would be in actuality due to flawed game mechanics.

Zeroing: Zeroing should either be taken out completely or made more manual (actually turning knobs between shots to zero it). There is no such thing as a gun that can be that quickly zero’d on the fly. Optics have built in smaller reticles below and are zeroed ahead of time. If you want to make longer range shots you should know the gun and the bullet you are firing, not just have to press page up/page down a few times.

Quickscoping/eye relief: Currently in most FPS games every single scope is “quick”able because they don’t take eye relief in to account. The reason why HOLO sights and ACOG’s are so popular is because they are easier to “quickscope” with in real life due to a better eye relief. Longer range scopes in particular take a few seconds to get your eyes in the right location and the right distance from the scope to see the reticle and a clear view. Scopes with less eye relief should take longer between when you right click to zoom in and when you are presented with a clear, accurate sight picture. Secondly, the field of view with these longer range scopes is generally much wider than it actually would be in reality, making it much easier to just scan around for targets through your scope. Longer range scopes need to be slower to use and view diameter needs to be altered – both of which will bring time needed to aquire a target closer to realistic levels.

Windage: Could possibly be added for longer range shots, but I don't know how feasable that is.

In addition, carrying a VERY heavy gun such as the .50's and the m240 your running speed should be reduced as it is in real life.

Combine these usability changes with the other changes mentioned above, and I think that long range sniping will be a lot closer to realistically portrayed than it is currently and playstyles other than “sniper bandit” will be much more attractive and feasible in contrast. In addition, instead of being randomly sniped for the vast majority of your deaths, getting taken down by a skilled and crafty sniper will become something that puts you in awe at his abilities, similar to when you get outgunned by a superior player in a close range fight.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Nasakenai

[Zeppa 562]

Someone took the efford, rather than crying how OP their are and remove them, thanks for that.

But still, everything here have been suggested and discussed xxxxxxxxxx times... same ideas, sry.

[wolfstriked 143]

Love the ideas.Sadly some have been suggested way back when Arma2 first came out.One was the way you can walk around with a heavy machine gun or sniper extended out with little effort.The players were asking for heavy weapons to drop down after a certain time and tied in with stamina....of course stamina should be terrible if your traveling with a sniper rifle.Could be slung on back for less stamina loss and maybe a lot of shake when walking with it extended to give some negatives for it.Its got a huge advantage and one thing that makes games great is when things have advantages and disadvantages.

[Zeppa 562]

Also there was huge long thread about this in the past here too, about balistics and stuff.... sadly its lost under all the shit now...

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

Weapon handling in games is mostly ridiculous. I really hope they do something about that in the standalone, though I'm not holding my breath.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

All of these are very good suggestions, and expressed clearly. A rare occurrence nowadays. :P

Currently, large rifles are not treated properly in terms of size and weight, I'm sure the Dev team is taking this into account. (atleast Rocket seems to want to reach paramount authenticity with DayZ)

Many topics are becoming retro, owing to the frequency they get brought up.

With the standalone so close to release, the best thing to do now is wait and see if the weapon handling has been updated.

You know these forums are just going to be chock full of crap for the next couple of months.

[noblebrutus@live.co.uk 26]

I agree with your points.

I don't think sniping should attract/spawn too many Zombies, I agree a couple or so on occaision (not every time). This would pose a threat to new player snipers but even for veterans they should provide distraction long enough for the victim to find cover/make an escape.

[Zombiestubble 4]

ACE includes windage, so it's indeed possible to create it for DayZ. The big question is: What is going to make people stay sniping? If you nerf it too much, everyone is just going to use AKMs and M16 ACOGs.

[birdman 108]

ACE includes windage, so it's indeed possible to create it for DayZ. The big question is: What is going to make people stay sniping? If you nerf it too much, everyone is just going to use AKMs and M16 ACOGs.

Awesome.

[Nasakenai 34]

ACE includes windage, so it's indeed possible to create it for DayZ. The big question is: What is going to make people stay sniping? If you nerf it too much, everyone is just going to use AKMs and M16 ACOGs.

This is good because it would be more realistic. When is the last time you saw a military infantry squad on patrol with every member using .50's? There's a reason why assault rifles and battle rifles are so popular.

[Zeppa 562]

I agree with your points.

I don't think sniping should attract/spawn too many Zombies, I agree a couple or so on occaision (not every time). This would pose a threat to new player snipers but even for veterans they should provide distraction long enough for the victim to find cover/make an escape.

Why would they be thread to new players and only distraction for "seniors"... lol.

I think firing a loud gun, what ever it would be to attract lots of zombies... not the homing missiles we have now but some wander around there, if they introduce the horder/wandering zeds there is always a change one is somewhere behind you.

Friend with you would make it easyer.