sausagekingofchicago

Exactly. A watered down DayZ would be pretty much FPS so a bunch of CoD kids could play it the way they want. I hope Rocket bucks the establishment and offers something different. So what if a bunch of FPS kiddies don't like it.

That doesn't mean it's an "exploit". I'm sorry but some of you guys are just so wound tight that you're missing the point. Making zombies appear out of thin air ruins the game for the vast majority of players that use it. Not sure how to express that any better. I'd really like to see someone offer a better solution other than that or the contextual camera angle.

I exploit third person the same way I exploit my legs when I take a walk or how I exploit my arms when I go about lifting things. Perhaps this is a good time for some for some of you to learn to walk? (too much inflammatory nonsense, gotta tinkle a bit on that fire)

That happens again and again in CoD, BF, or other high end FPS shooters. It's actually far easier to shoot someone in a situation like that in FP only as your target can't see a thing. A smart player with third on would ASSUME a potential threat would exist in an advantageous location and even keep an eye on that snipers nest as he moves. He may even actually sprint and run smart paths around buildings, walls, cars, etc to outsmart the sniper. Brains will always overcome some moron on a hill with a gun looking for a cheap kill. I can't recall the last time I was sniped in Cherno while hitting up the popular loot spots because I NEVER run in a predictable path and always keep an eye on potential sniper locations. Carefully moving about is required with third on. With FP only, you only need to look at the most likely danger spots and if you don't see anyone, you're safe. No thanks. I don't want to know the coast is clear. I want to hear that snap of a bullet and then desperately run, strafe, sprint, and duck to avoid catching a bullet, if I was dumb enough to step out of cover. I'm sorry, but there's nothing easy about third when it comes to actually playing in third. It's only easy for campers, a group that will to exist with or without third person. A camper only has to cover the entrance to a popular loot spot to stack bodies, the only difference is whether he's inside the building or outside.

That place we do not speak of.

heh "research"? How many people again? Supply said link. Has plenty to do with it, supply link.

FP camp = people who want to rid the game of 3rd or want to severely nerf it. Seeing around obstacles and looking for potential threats = proper use. I may have clicked on the wrong link or something but I didn't see anything about using 3rd person to "cheat" when I voted. If you'd like, I'd be happy to dig up some videos on info on how the wording of polls manipulate the outcome.

There's no disagreeing with who will have the upper hand in that given situation but come on now, wtf would you be in first in that situation if third is available? Properly using the third person camera can take skill, but only if the map is designed with that type of pvp in mind. From my experience, the maps in Arma are simply not designed for this type of pvp. Third, in DayZ at least, is especially useful against the environment. Unfortunately for the view, the game has morphed into a pure pvp fest, for any reason we'd like to mention, and those of us still kicking about are so experienced that zombies offer no threat at all. Blop, blop, zombie down. Anyone alive for an hour has a weapon ready to take gobs of zombies unless they make a very stupid mistake. Which brings me to the main complaint I've seen from FP guys. Nearly every person from the FP camp that I've debated view the camera as a cheat in PvP. Occasionally a guy will say "but it adds more immersion and tension!!!" Yes to immersion, hands down, no debate on that, but I absolutely disagree with the tension aspect when it comes to PvP. I've made poorly structured arguments against that before but the point still stands. Not knowing if someone is watching you is about as realistic as possible in a game like this. Knowing someone can be watching you from just about anywhere adds a tremendous amount of tension, something the FP guys seem to resist and just say "someone must be cheating!!!" Was the mod meant to be an endless deathmatch of 50 cals? Is the SA meant to be that? I say no, simply by the changes Rocket has mentioned. If it was meant to be a big ass deathmatch between players, zombies wouldn't be necessary at all and loot would rotate while floating in the air with a giant red aura around it. Oh, and it would probably be timed if the loot dropped from a player to encourage people to make a break for good loot.. to encourage more PvP. That's not how it works and the damaging loot and limited ammo of the SA suggests our goal shouldn't be all about racking up kills. Do we really want to play another deathmatch game? The FP argument is firmly rooted in PvP. I can go play a FP PvP game anywhere. I want a challenging environment and the tension brought on by player interactions other than shoot on sight.

Up next, a poll about side chat, 1000+ vehicle servers, and civvy weapons. It would be nice if the FP camp would quit using the term "cheat" when discussing the proper use of the third person camera. It only serves to inflame others and probably has a lot to do with the overall tone of these debates.

That severely limits the way I play. Certain cameras are used for certain situations. If I'm moving through thick trees, I switch to first. If I'm indoors, I switch to first, especially if there's there's a player near. If I'm flying, I switch to first. If I'm having trouble finding crossbow bolts, I switch to first. Locking the camera is going to give one set of players an advantage over the other. Isn't that what we're trying to avoid? That's not the same at all.

I don't want to get locked into third person only.

Erm... Just the vocal ones. A lot of people, especially the third person camp, are pretty tired of this topic. We've only beaten this horse once a month for over a year. I'm pretty sure we'll see different results the day a video of or when we play the new and improved third person or if it's completely removed.

sure, but are we, the mod forum addicts, really represent the entire community? :)

The poll in no way represents the community at large.

dat blind spot.

Yeah. That's not really a solution imo. How about something like this. Weapon on your back, full third person. Weapon equipped but down, zoomed in third person. Weapon raised, first person. ?

I dug the dead forest. Haven't checked out the mine yet but it's been a blast.

neither do I but I despise playing with people that do. I'm going to swing through either way.

ouch.. bmrf? Do the hardcore guys still get paid for "perks"?

That's would work best but the characters are just a bunch of untrained civvies. So to make even that more interesting, you pick your dominant hand at spawn so lefties have bad aim when shooting from the right shoulder, righties bad aim when shooting from the left shoulder. ;) I'm not 100% sure about that thought but it would add some interesting things to consider when playing. I just know I would suck shooting from my left shoulder. [edit: not to mention it might jack up the animations. just tossing out ideas]

These could both have TPV on but only one person (the defender/abusher) gets the free information on where the other player is. Anways...good to hear the devs working on trying different solutions to try to please the bottom line player base...the three main areas the TPV is most abusive is: *Prone *Hallways *Overwatch *Prone: Forced prone in TPV is a pretty good solution to stop the periscope-a-ton in the outdoors. *Hallways:...a Deadspace shoulder perspective would go a long way to fixing hallways. Perhaps in urban/town enviroments the TPV becomes locked in a shoulder perspective. *Overwatch: A concealed person can still have a massvie advantage during overwatch even if their peepers could not actually see over/through their concealment...this type of situation is the hardest to work on a fix. The distinction between running in the open where Rocket says he would like TPV and suddenly stopping in a good postion (such as on top of a hill behind rocks) and being able to recon an entire area free of consequence will be hard to tweak. No ideas for that. *Gear/UI checks: would also be a pretty good way to examine your character you gear and maybe for a status check. So long as to obvious imbalances are worked on a compromise is sensible. Prone: to first person or zoomed way in Crouch: zoomed in. If it's over the should they're going to need to add the ability to switch which shoulder the camera is on on the fly or one side will always have a blindspot and be absolutely useless. Standing: standard third (I'd prefer it to be zoomed in a bit. Something similar to double tapping + in third person but maybe a little further back) No double tapping - to zoom out further. Vehicles: always FP. Always. To deal with what most people will start doing, which is to stand in a corner or behind a tree to get total TP angle, when standing against an object the camera should zoom in further. Perhaps to the distance of crouch cam. This is tricky as you can get annoying and motion sickness inducing camera zooming if done wrong. Finding the best spot to trigger the zoom and picking the best speed of the zoom will be the trick.

Help me out with this one by backing up that claim. It obviously supports the FP argument so I'd like a link or something. Maybe it was all FP before I got here. Thanks.

Took a look at some vids. There doesn't appear to be a lot of zombies at all. could be fun though.

How's the pop? Hook up the IP. :)

K, I'm not going to get offended by your condescension so I'll just point out how I'm fully aware of what Arma was and is and I'm almost certain I know DayZ is a mod of it. I think. DayZ is it's own beast despite it's roots. I'm 100% on board for a new 3rd but not one that doesn't make sense at all. Having objects and threats become invisible because someone doesn't like the proper use of third person view is silly. There have been better suggestions than that and rocket has even mentioned one that's already superior to the nerf view some have suggested recently. I haven't even seen much discussion of this from the FP side of the debate. Because it's incredibly hard to create maps that work for third person view and to create a smooth camera that doesn't pass through or bump zoom in on the player when they move around. Even finding the sweet spot for a third person view is going to be hard. Too close, and your character blocks your view. OTS view, same thing. Too far back and you get people crying about "exploits". As for tension, there is nothing more anxiety inducing than knowing someone could be behind any tree, any rock, any wall, bush or elephant watching you consider whether or not to run across an open area. The entire world becomes a threat with third person. That makes the game harder in the pvp sense. You're forced, hopefully, to make smart decisions about approaches and while in combat. In first person, you only need to look at a few areas where a threat may be to decide whether or not the coast is clear. Again, I'm not saying the view should remain the same but switching to something worse is not ideal at all. Changing the view should be taken very seriously by the devs and nailing the right position without breaking the view isn't going to be something they can do over a weekend. They might as well force FP while locking the FoV than waste their time breaking the third person view.