m.w. vindicator

I REALLY hope Rocket takes a look at the damage system. I know the medical system is being reworked so that should help, but the damage system is flawed. People always call CoD a game for kiddies, and yet in DayZ you survive tons of bullets.

Where I live you have to be 18 you own a long arm and 21 to own a pistol. If I bought a pistol, It would be a Makarov. Makarovs are cheap, don't break easily, cheap ammo, easy to use and clean. Great starter pistol.

DayZ is about authencity. Taking a mag of bullets to go down isn't authentic unless the player is wearing power armor

675 ft lbs would still be lethal often if the round hit right spot wouldn't it? Some pistols rounds like .45 ACP are very dangerous and their muzzle velocity is way less that 1,300

These aren't my vids. I haven't fired a gun in years. I do enjoy it though

Big mike mentioned how it wouldn't work on Chernarus...

OP, change the thread title to Pistol damage and the Makarov or something like that. There is a lot of good discussion about ballistics and the damage system.

@Elvaron What is the model for the two round slugs? Is it the box of ammo you made for me or something entirely different.

The OP idea isn;t for a urbanized Chernarus, but a completely new map. Rocket has aspirations for a new map eventually

Yeah, A good shooter could kill anyone with any gun

Just one more way for people to murder each... :lol: When will people request the ability to shake hands! In all seriousness throwing an ax would be hard. I don't know how likely it is for the blade to hit the target

I can't agree more. People can be fucking lucky as hell some times when being shot. I bet the stories go both ways though. I am sure there is a story out there about some one who was killed by a single pistol round through body armor than should haved stopped it. You know what I mean? No game will ever fully represent the utter randomness that seems to be involved with guns and bullets and people.

Think about the pros and cons. A lot more lag for little gain. There are way more important things to spend my FPS on than shell casings that I would never see in the grass.

Dead City? Get out of here S.T.A.L.K.E.R. :lol: I like the idea of abandoned urban environment. Sure it is cliche but it is popular for good reasons.

You make good points. I respect your opinion. I feel that people surviving hits form .45 ACP JHP rounds are in a extreme small group. People could survive 9x18 for sure. The problem is that even if they survive, they will be badly wounded. This (like you said) is not represented. I know that there is a BIG difference between the JHP rounds and FMJ. One of the vids show the effects of FMJ compared to JHP. I suggest you watch that one. It is only a few minutes. EDIT: Note that even the regular FMJ creates a cavity in the gel. That would be the part of the wound that injures the person the most. A hit in the chest would kill if a cavity of that size formed. Off course, humans are known for their vermin like durability and ability to stay alive. I heard that story about the Philippinos. Weren't they on drugs?

I am not really sure but I believe that the the armament of the police isn't standardized. I believe that some use new Pjas. I know the Ukrainians used to use the Fort-12 and the PM Makarov. I think I saw that some police forces use Stechkin APS and some Stechkin APBs are used in special police units. Czech police use the CZ-75 now. A pistol called the CZ-82 was used in the (wait for it) 80's and is similar to the Makarov. I feel all these weapons should be added with time.

I agree with variety as long as it makes sense. I am not opposed to western weaponry in the game. I feel a large variety of Eastern weaponry from all backgrounds should be in the game. I still want weapons to be really rare, but eastern guns should be more common relatively in Chernarus. I feel a 4 to 1 average East vs West ratio for guns makes sense. Note that western civilian guns would be more common that western military guns so the ratio is just a rough average based on MY opinion. If I saw a large variety of Czech, Slavic, Ukrainian, Russian, Polish, Chinese, and Middle Eastern weapons in the game I would be IMMENSELY pleased. That being said I would also be happy finding western guns, as long as they aren't as frequently found as their eastern counterparts. For example, it should be quite possible to find a Beretta M9 or a Colt M1911 because those are popular firearms. Same goes for Glocks, H&K weapons, FN weapons, and SiG weapons. Military weapons would be a lot more location specific than weapons like shotguns, which are sold all over the world. If we ever see a map in a place that isn't eastern Europe, I would hope that the weaponry of the new location is represented fairly.

I'll post here what I posted elsewhere. This my general idea about Russia pistols and ballistics in general. Personally I would throw my money at the screen if the Stechkin APS/APB, Makarov PM, Makarov PMm, OTs-33 Pernach, and everyother russian pistol out there made it into the game. Personally I believe that those guns would be the most common weapons available. I believe that finding a Makarov should be a fucking great thing for your character. Having a gun should be rare unlike the mod, IN MY OPINION. Currently, finding a gun is relatively easy and only takes roughly 10-15min. I feel it should be MUCH harder. Many players should have to rely on melee weapons for defense for a considerable amount of time. Off course, so will get lucky, but many more would be at the mercy of the man with the gun. I posted the above in a thread about .50 cals. Below is some vids about the 9x18 bullet and my opinions on it. I believe 1-3 shots from a 9mm weapon (9x18 or 9x19 or anyother variant) should nearly always be lethal. I want people to cry on the forums about it. All guns should be deadly, as the are in a real life scernario. As you can see in the video, the round is effective, but no the best. Remember, I AM NOT AN EXPERT. The videos are simply evidence that supports my thoughts. Finally another video. This reviews the gun and the round. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KQtGGHLRz4 Notice that many people in the videos say how the round isn't the BEST but it is sure better than nothing. In the Mod, a Makarov is worse than an AXE vs Players. I feel that this is unacceptable. A person with a melee weapon could never win a headlong charge in the barrel on ANY gun. The person wielding the gun would simply have to land ONE shot out of many to severely hinder the ability of a person to strike back. Some one that just got shot will probably be knocked over/off balance. The pain and the wound will prevent them from effectively retaliating with the melee weapon. The person might survive one bullet depending on where it hits. A hit to the upper chest would probably drop a person to the ground. There would be no way the ax-wielder could fight back. A hit to the leg would cause the ax wielder to fall. With the wounded leg, that person could never get close enough too the gun user to cause damage to the gun user. A hit to the arm and the ax-wielder wouldn't be able to effectively swing. A hit to the head... yeah about that :murder:-> :bandit: -> x_x AxProSmasher was killed The guy with the gun would win a head on fight all day. Melee weapons would have to be used with cunning and surprise, like they are used in real life situations. I hope Rocket sees this and considers this. I am just one forumer, but I believe some of you will agree with me. Maybe a compromise could be reached. Surviving 10+ shots is fucked up but maybe 1-3 shots with (arguably) the worst round in the game is too hardcore. If you disagree please respond with evidence. Here on the internet, everyone thinks they are an expert. PLEASE realize I am just a dude on the internet, not some prof. I doubt the average forumer is a PHD in gunpowder ballistics. Some of you are bound to disagree with and everyone has their opinions on guns. I can't say it enough. There is my Mega-post. I hope you take a moment and read it. I would appreciate it b/c I am quite passionate about guns in DayZ. I always love shooting guns in games and in this game, I want hardcore realism. Sorry about the stupid "" at the end of the quoted paragraphs

In this video, someone shoots a 95gr 9x18 round at ballistic gel. Notice how much the gel kicks from the impact with the bullet. Surely, if that was a person, they would have gotten knocked down, if not killed outright. Note that this is a upgraded bullet for CIVILIAN use. Also note the he used a CZ 82, not a PM Makarov. But all things considered, I feel this would still be lethal. the second vid illustrates regular 9x18 FMJ that is in the game.

The effectiveness of weapons is always a hot topic on the internet. Like I said earlier everyone has opinions about guns and ballistics. I agree with you though, I think 5.56 is very effective in the 50-300 range. Ballistics are sooo complicated that bullets can sometimes do different amounts of damage (less or more )at very close ranges compared to a couple hundred meters. Some strange calibers like 9x39mm (all the variants like PAB-9, SP-5, and SP-6) are subsonic, armor piercing, and very deadly but are subsonic. This means they have no sonic boom and are much quieter. The round is used in Russian special weaponry. This is just goes to show that bullets/ballistics are weird and MANY factors play into effectiveness. Here is a list of things I can think of off the top of my head that effect a bullet's ballistics. Keep in mind, I AM NOT AN EXPERT!!!! -width (this is obvious. 12.7 is bigger than 5.56 and is heavier when it hits) -length. I don't really know how it effects a bullet but surely it does. -amount of powder -If the bullet is jacketed or unjacketed -what is the bullets core? Steel, lead, or something else -length of the barrel. Longer barrels increase muzzle velocity and this effects things -super sonic or subsonic -ballistic trajectory. Subsonic bullets drop off at much closer ranges. Large rounds like 12.7x99 can travel for thousands of meters Those are just some things that effect a bullet that I know. I don't know how each variable effects the bullet exactly. Keep in mind that I may have forgotten something. I am just a dude on the internet, not some prof. with degree.

Rocket is no God and he has made mistakes. He has done a great job at being open though.

Seems legit. I am not an expert on gunpowder ballistics and everyone on this forum probably has a unique POV on ballistics. I can't wait to see how the new medical system deals with bullet/shrapnel wounds. I hope the simulation is up to par, because the current medical system does a piss poor job at representing the process to survive a bullet hitting you. Using a single band-aid and then eating a porkchop is the way to survive a bullet. I can't believe that actually works! :lol:

I agree. The game is about authenticity/realism. The sniping simulation in Arma is not really that authentic or realistic. That is why I have a problem with it. It doesn't mesh well with DayZ. For me, it has never been about balance. I feel like sniper duels for the lolz would never happen in an Apocalypse and I dislike how it breaks immersion.

I still want some high tech guns like M16s and M4s. I don't really have a problem with SMGs, Assualt Rifles, and most other guns. It is stupid to me how many people in this thread are QQing about not having a .50 cal sniper. The community has been spoiled by this ridiculous weapons. I can't wait till the mod removes them. The whole customization system does make certain weapons tactic-cool but I can't complain about a new feature.

Why does there have to be big guns at all. No AS50s, M107s, M82s, PTRDs, PTRS-41s, KSVKs, OSV-96s or any other tacticool snipper rifle for 1337 snipers. I love PvP and PvE in this game but I feel sniping with the highest-tech gear possible isn't really something for DayZ. I my opinion, a large part of the community is spoiled with tactic-cool gear. I hope Rocket and team remove it, because personally I think it has have no place in DayZ. I feel fighting in the streets with shotguns, pistols, and knives with a side of Zeds, is WAY more fun than having a sniper duel. Especially because ArmA 2's sniper simulation is lacking in certain aspects. Hopefully guns, knives, and every other bloody fucking weapon is more deadly. Everytime I hear about someone surviving 10+ shots from a GUN in DayZ, a part of me dies. IRL I don't feel like any average person without body armor could take a shot from a 9x18 caliber weapon and remain standing. I am NOT AN EXPERT but I can't imagine by self or any other average citizen taking a bullet and not evening flinching like the current mod. I understand that during an adrenaline rush, someone could maybe take a shot, but taking more than 3 shots from ANY gun seems absolutely absurd. Even caliber's like 5.56x45 which receive criticism for not being deadly, are EXTREMELY good at wounding people. In a war, it is often better to wound an enemy combatant so that other personnel have to be diverted to save the wounded individual. I feel this should be represented in DayZ. If your character gets hit by 5.56x45, 5.45x39 or some other intermediate caliber the character should be knocked down. Simply bandaging should not be good enough. Eventually the bullet would have to be removed, if it didn't already exit the body. It should be necessary to bandage multiple times to stop the critical bleeding. Your character should pass out in seconds from pain and blood loss much like the ACE mod, if shot. If you pass out, it is very possible that you would bleed out while immobilized. This could frustrate some people, but I feel like it would add authenticity, which, I think, is more important. Large rounds should be lethal. I find it ridiculous that someone can survive a hit from 7.62x51mm NATO or 7.62x54mmR (or other variants like 7.62x54mm 7N1, or 7N11). Those bullets are HUGE and I don't no how anyone could live through a hit from one of those guns. If some ones knows otherwise, send me a link, but currently I can't imagine anyone living from a sucessful hit from .303 British, .30-06, 7.62x51, .308 and .300 Magnum, or anyother full size rifle bullet. The muzzle velocity on those large weapons is VERY high Sorry for my rant but after seeing many of the post in this thread, I felt people are misinterpreting what DayZ game will be like. I HIGHLY doubt Rocket will let his game turn into a sniper/machine gun fest. The mod is currently a sniper/machine gun fest and I doubt that was Dean's original idea.