iongaming33@aim.com

So, as we slowly approach Q4, the roadmap mark for helicopters, the discussion heats up. Are armed helicopter overpowered? I say no, definitely not. When many people argue against armed helis, they see DayZ Epoch, they see AH-1Z Cobras flying around, wrecking fresh spawns with the cannon, leveling entire city blocks with the rocket pods, experienced pilot-gunner teams taking out vehicles kilometers away with guided Hellfire missiles. Others envision what it was in the mod. You find a heli, slap 6-12 spare parts on it, and you got yourself a huey with unlimited ammo (ammo fills each restart). On the rare occasion you ran into a quality pilot and gunner that could effectively neutralize infantry with the M240s mounted on the side, your day was ruined. I see those points. The first is just a matter of comparing a mod like Epoch to the standalone, highly unlikely. Now, I wouldn't oppose Cobras existing in the DayZ universe to give me something to dream about, but I seriously doubt that we will see anything of the sort anytime in the foreseeable future. My vision of helicopters in DayZ is similar to how the mod was. Most helis you found were unarmed, but you could get lucky. Next let's talk about if they were even OP in the original mod. To this I also argue no. When it came time to take out a ground target, most pilots would hover, as their gunners could not effectively judge how much to lead, and take into account all of the variables that must be considered for air-to-ground fighting. Pilots would hover, snipers would snipe, and it would often be game over for the heli crew. Another common occurrence was a pilot flying fast to avoid ground fire, and the gunners spraying wildly, and why should they care, the thing spawns with 500 rounds each restart? What I'm saying is that even in the mod, it was pretty rare to see a pilot-gunner team that could effectively kill from the air. Gunners could spray as much ammo as they wanted. So, my argument is that armed helicopters would not be overpowered in SA if we took what we had in the ORIGINAL mod, and "DayZed" it. First, you have the chances of finding a helicopter being very slim. Second, you have what will probably be weeks if not months of looting to find ALL the parts required to get it running. We're talking endgame content here. Third, you have the the Take On Helicopters flying mechanics, as that is what the engine was based off of originally. (Flying in ToH is VERY different than A2/A3) Fourth, you have the rarity of an ARMED helicopter. I say armed meaning mounted M240s on a huey, or for you authenticity freaks, perhaps the Mi-17 military variant would be the common find around the militaristic state of Chernarus, armed with PKMs. Fifth, you can bet your ass these heli's won't spawn with ammo every restart, you'll have the challenge of finding ammo boxes for these weapons, and using it effectively. Sixth, you have the extreme skill that it takes to have an effective pilot-gunner team, with the new flying mechanics. So taking all of these into account, what do you think? Will it just be death from the sky? Or will the challenges outweigh the possible personal negative outcomes.

So let's get a little fact-check going here. Chernarus (+), is 225 sq. kilometers. Altis is 270 sq. kilometers. Stratis is 20 sq. kilometers, not even a tenth of the size of Chernarus.

My thoughts exactly, just a little better-worded :D

I fully support "buried" tents, especially if they give us only one model like the original mod. I hid those babies in rocks & all sorts of other places that survived even through the script-kiddie swarm. I'm just wondering if your opening sentence is legit or not. I'm not one for keeping up on reddit & such but are tents actually going to be in 0.48? If so I'll be playing 0.48 quite a bit!

Or you could, say, maybe fix the game instead of removing an important element of the game.

Not entirely sure if that was directed at me but if so you clearly don't understand my view. Nobody said helicopters should be easy to attain/maintain, I said quite the opposite. Also we're not talking about gunships. Not sure why you're so disgruntled, I sincerely apologize if I have offended you with my topic, I never meant to be a special snowflake. This isn't a 6th grade popularity contest or whatever you're making it out to be, I just want to have a discussion, if you don't want to be a part of it, don't be.

Yeah man we're all in agreement there. Helis in SA should be very hard to fix and maintain. It should be an endgame goal that takes a long time to accomplish, but the reward is great. Some people just decided that they wanted to be done with the whole idea of helis altogether.

Okay, so your survivor shouldn't know how to fly a helicopter? Tell me how he can strip an M4, AKM, use an IV line, gut & cook every animal in Chernarus, do anything mechanical on cars, sstring a bow & fishing rod, or anything else that your survivor can do. That is what RDog was saying.

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Knew someone was gonna have a go at that as soon as I wrote it haha. What I mean is the people crying that armed helis are OP because they got killed by it once or they were driving and one swept in and sprayed their vehicle. I'm talking about the rarity of a gunner hitting somebody without spraying, or having the pilot hover to get a shot.

Stay on topic? The topic is about armed helicopters, the first 3 pages are off topic. helicopters are going to be in this game, that is confirmed. I'm not saying that cannot change, but it's looking like helicopters will have their presence in the game. The topic was about helis with guns.

Then don't! If you have no interest in helicopters then don't! Just play the game like you normally would. If you don't want one don't put in the work.

That's the point. They will hopefully be very rare, and a very huge pain in the arse to fix. It SHOULD be impractical for a scrappy group of unorganized survivors. This stuff should take a ton of effort, they should almost make it not worth fixing one. But if a group does decide to fix one, it should be hell to do it. It's endgame.

I knew what he meant, and I'm all for the beach babes, but I was speaking more on the point I made at the end of that post. If they're in the game, (which they will be, unless something drastically changes the team's mind) people are going to use them.

"Who the fuck would bother with a helicopter in this situation unless they were leaving?" I would, as I did in the mod, to get where I needed to go, to kill who I needed to kill. As far as flight knowledge, I think that's where I draw the line. If I'm Joe Blow tourist to Russia, how the fuck do I know how to take apart an M4, AKM, fix up a car, use an IV bag, gut an animal, cook every type of animal on Chernarus, make a bow, fish with a stuck, and everything else you can do. Maybe YOU know how to do some of this stuff, I can promise you that the entire 2 miillion population of DayZ doesn't. If you're going to sit here and say, "Hmmm, let's only put things in this game that your average person would know how to do.", then you're stuck with TurnOnYourComputerStartDayzArgueOnForums Simulator 2014. DayZ is a game, it's an authentic game, but it's a game. It's built off a mil-sim and has diverse levels of complexity, but it's a game. ask the dev team, it's a game. Tell me how every survivor in Chernarus can do everything else before you tell me he can't fly a helicopter.

They add everything that helicopters can do. They add quick transport, they add CAS, they add looting strategies, they add interactive opportunities. I guess I should've been more straightforward in my previous post. Have you ever played Take on Helicopters? Did you know that DayZ's engine is a modified Take on Helicopters engine? Did you know that whenever helis were brought up to dean, he said that they were going to be not only complicated to fix, but complicated to use. Why would they not make it more complex when that is the drive of this entire game? Tents, Vehicles, AND helis would already be in the game if they were just going to be the same, if they weren't going to be revamped. everything is going to be more complex, and that is why we have to wait for it.

Might be a bit off-topic but I picked up an official Chernarus map from the BIS store way back when. I just checked they're still up there for sale. The thing is really cool, came with Taki and my love, Sahrani too. Chernarus is an awesome place. https://store.bistudio.com/chernarus-map-collection

You say they have no use, then go on to tell me one of their many uses. Yes, they get you places faster. That's a great example. Like Karmaterror said, helicopters have their downsides, and learn to place your camp in a better location. I had a camp that lasted the entire first year of DayZ all the way through the scripter swarm. I placed my tents logically, and nobody found them. Constantly full pop server too. As for your comment on the difficulty of ToH flying, I recommend you go play the game yourself before making that kind of claim.

1. That isn't the type of armed heli we're talking about. 2. Point 6, finding a pilot, then a gunner, with the skill of Dslyecxi is even more rare than helis will be in this game. 3. That's A2. Not saying that Dslyexci couldn't do that in ToH, but the flying in SA would be much more difficult, from what I understand.

Ehh I'd definitely like to have them in the game as an endgame. What I'd like to see is all helis, armed and unarmed, being some of the rarest occurrences in DayZ. I'd love it if it were rare to spot a heli flying more than once a month. The first time I saw a heli in the mod was months after I started playing it, and it was amazing because they were so rare. Just the fact that it flew over just me made me so happy. That's the kind of rare I'm talking about.

So, with all the Zombie Apocalypse games coming out, I'd like to look at what is hopefully going to be one of the things that makes DayZ different. I think the complexity of the game's system is going to play a big role in many people's enjoyment of the game. Many systems already have very complex mechanics to them; take the medical system, for example. Different blood types, different vitamins, different medications and chemicals to solve various issues. All of these things require some knowledge to use and be successful with. Now, DayZ has taken a lot of flak from certain people about things like this being unnecessarily unrealistic. While I see where these complaints are coming from, I really hope that DayZ continues in this direction, making all things just as complicated as giving the right blood to the right person. As DayZ has no "class, role, or skill" systems, it is things like the medical system that make true "classes". The complex medical system brings the need to have somebody experienced in this field, a "medic". To be successful you must try different solutions to issues, and actually learn what makes things work. As you succeed and fail at different things, you become specialized in certain areas of the game. I really hope to see these complex systems continue to develop with everything in the game. Vehicles, for example. I really hope that they require not only the necessary parts to fix, but the skill and knowledge of how to use these parts to get something working. You need to know which part goes where, how to tune this dial, how much oil to put in here, etc... Eventually we might see forum posts popping up like "Looking for a medic, mechanic, navigator, sniper, pilot etc..." On a side note, perhaps to accompany these systems, there could be certain books that act as skill books, but actually teach you how to do something. Most books in game now are just novels, poems, and other literature, but imagine if you could find a book that told you all about blood types, or how to fix a small car. What do you think? Is DayZ too realistic? Should it just be a loot & shoot? Or should it be an apocalypse simulator?

Agreed there shouldn't be extra systems that are chores to do, but the systems that ARE in place/planned should be complex enough to allow definite different levels of experience with these systems.

It may seem overly tedious because of the laggy engine, having to press a button 60 times to get it out, and then it puts it away, it's annoying. However, things like these are important. Pressing K for a magic compass to appear on your screen makes things like firefight communication very easy and OP. Having to put your gun away and taking a risk to tell your team where a threat is makes sense. A magic compass shouldn't just pop up. Maybe a good balance could be a hotkey to get it out in one hand, holding whatever else you're doing in the other. Or maybe it could be attached to your character somewhere and all you need to do is look down at it.

Totally agree, it should be intense, exciting, and massive. The reason I fell in love with the mod was the feelings it gave me. DayZ gave me a rush I couldn't get anywhere else. So far, the standalone doesn't give me these feelings. A lot of this can be attributed to the fact that I know Chernarus like the back of my hand, but a ton of other stuff is missing.

Yeah I think DayZ already has all the appeal and attention it needs, and it needs to continue to be what made it popular, a realistic zombie apocalypse simulator. Think about why DayZ became so popular, Dean Hall threw together the exactly correct combination of elements, and it exploded. So far I think the team is on the right track, I'm just a bit uneasy at all the outcry there has been about the realism being over the top.