SalamanderAnder (DayZ)

The term “morality” can be used either descriptively, to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or, some other group, such as a religion, or accepted by an individual for her own behavior or [*]normatively, to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons. I've seen users on this forum beat the same dead fucking horse for over a year. Our suggestion section, and especially this section of the forum, are completely overrun with posts complaining about the Kill on Sight "problem." A common suggestion that I see on almost a daily basis is to make lone wolf players or bandits "go insane" and see hallucinations, lose control of their mouse and keyboard, or talk to themselves, or any other trash they can think of. I've EVEN seen players suggest that there should be moral ramifications for killing non-agro zombies. These suggestions are all rooted in one rule: morality. Now, in our every day reality, we have to follow rules. We have to be "moral" citizens, because (most of us) live in a large, populated society with easy access to food and medicine. Our society imposes laws based on ethics. I think most people like to believe that there is some sort of "universal ethos" that governs us all. These people would contend that actions like killing, or stealing, are inherently wrong, regardless of the presence of society. Well guess what moaners - there isn't. How can I say this so certainly? Because human beings are NOT automatically punished for doing amoral things. This alone proves that morality is a social construct. Consider a hypothetical situation where there are only two men. Only two. One day, one of the men kills the other. The reason is unimportant, because the fact remains that nobody, and nothing, can punish that killer for what he has done. "God" isn't going to strike him down with lightning. He isn't going to suddenly "lose his mind" and start talking to himself and running around uncontrollably. In fact, there's a good chance that he may not even feel bad about what he did. Now consider the same situation, but instead of two men, there are three. Suddenly, one can't just kill another (even if he wants to), because the third party will witness his actions - and consequences may ensue. Therefore, morality is the equivalent of human beings avoiding the consequences of actions that other humans would not like. And this is where DayZ comes into the picture. DayZ aims to do pretty much one thing, and that is to place us in a harsh environment that is not governed by the same laws and ethics that we live by in the real world. Now lets consider those definitions I posted. The first is indicative of the little pussies who get killed a lot and whine about it. They play according to descriptive moral codes that do not actually exist and are not enforced by the game, yet they want everyone else to do the same, so they continually propagate their idiotic ideas on the forum. "Normative" morality is truly the ONLY morality that can exist in DayZ. "a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons." The apocalypse is the specified condition. We are the rational persons. Therefore, we put forward a very simple code of conduct: neutralize any threat to our own existence. This is the only moral action we can take, since any rational being would do the exact same thing. When we encounter another player in DayZ, a very simple piece of arithmetic takes place. Only a few things can actually happen. 1: he kills me for my stuff. And he lives. Pretty problematic for my character. 2: I kill him for his stuff. And I live. Problematic for his character. 3: We team up and shit rainbows together. According to the NOOBS, 3 is the only moral option. HOWEVER, it's a little problematic, since it only works if both players are observing the same moral code. The one who disobeys morality first is instantly the winner, since that person gets to keep all the loot. Players who want "KoS" to be punished by in-game mechanics are simply asking the for impossible - for a computer program to determine the difference between right and wrong. It simply can't be done. Only a real human being could successfully analyze the context of a situation, and even then it's pretty ambiguous. I know what some of you might be thinking right about now. "This guy just wants to watch the world burn, ect, ect." JUST to clarify - I do think teamwork should have incentives. I just don't think that doling out punishment to particular players or play styles is the right way to go. Remember people, this is the apocalypse we're trying to simulate. Real human conflict is the only thing that makes the game as compelling as it is.

Lately I've been seeing a lot of unimaginative threads. Ideas keep getting regurgitated like reintroducing the humanity system, creating indicators for murderers, sanity, the idea of "end game" (which obviously does not belong in a sandbox game), leveling, "skills," experience points. You name it. Every video game gimmick which has been employed a thousand times in the past, when DayZ truly is trying to be nothing like other games. Dean Hall himself has described DayZ as the "anti-game." Objectiveless, difficult to mind-blowing extremes, brutal, realistic, and immersive. There is only one way we are going to make people "valuable" in this game. There is only one way to keep people from getting bored to the point where murdering other players is literally the only source of satisfaction to be had. Simulation. This is going to be quite long and as you are reading, I want you to try and really imagine these mechanics working in game. Imagine a game chalked full of complexity, where your "skill" is exactly that. Your personal knowledge about the world around you. No gimmicks. Just difficulty through authenticity. - Vehicles. Vehicles in the mod were quite simple and in my opinion, too rare, and too easy to repair. Carrying an engine, a fueltank, two tires, and a 20 Liter jerry can in your inventory was no problem. Let's just examine that for a moment. A small 4 cylinder engine is going to weigh in at a minimum of 200 pounds, and of course they only get heavier from there. Fuel tank, lets say 50 pounds. At this point, your backpack straps are going to tear before you lift the damn thing off the ground. Add a couple 20 pound wheels. Now add 20 L of gasoline (1 L of gas is about 1.6 pounds) and you've got 32 pounds. All that put together is roughly 322 pounds. That's the equivalent of strapping a fully grown obese man to your back. There's simply no way this is possible, and it tells me that the vehicle repair system needs a serious overhaul. 1: Land and Sea Vehicles. Major components vs. Minor components. - Certain parts (major components) should function as "containers" for other parts (minor components). Just as you can attach a propane container to a gas stove, you should be able to attach spark plugs, fuel injectors, pistons, distributor caps, crankshafts, and belts to an engine block. Rather than replacing an entire engine, you would pop open the hood of the car, look in the "inventory" of a component, and see all these items with their respective conditions. -Batteries, alternators, and other components should be critical to a car's function. Just as in real life, you would need a battery to start a car. If the car has a dead battery, you could either replace it, or even jump the battery with another car using cables. Perhaps you could even use a defibrillator while starting a car to give it a quick jump and get the engine running. The alternator should charge the battery, and therefore if it is ruined, it won't work at all; meaning if you stop the engine, your car is not going to start again. Alternators are small and could be replaced pretty easily. On top of that, the alternator should have a belt just like in real life. You may have a perfect alternator, but if it's belt is ruined, then it's not going to work. - Wheels should require at least a wrench or a tire iron (which can be found in the trunk of most cars) to replace. Perhaps wheels and tires could be separate items, meaning that a puncture in your tire does not necessarily mean you have to replace the entire wheel. Perhaps with a hammer, or a rock, or a crowbar, you could replace a tire on the hub of a wheel. Additionally, you could repair a punctured tire with duct tape for a short time, giving you enough drive time to move the vehicle. Some minor repairs could be done by hand, others would require specific tools like a screwdriver, a wrench, ect. Repairing major components, like an engine block or a fuel tank, could be done with a welder's torch and fuel for said torch. Instead of carrying around a huge, heavy engine block, you could simply find a welder's torch and repair the engine block already inside a car. All of these components should have some effect on the function of a vehicle. For example, bad spark plugs, pistons, crankshafts, and tires, would effect the speed of your vehicle. Certain parts like the crankshaft or a tire would completely immobilize the vehicle. Batteries and starter motors obviously effect how well your vehicle starts, if it does so at all. Rather than having a magical indicator at the top of your screen telling you a vehicle's condition, you would have to diagnose the problems by inspecting the components. Salvage and Armor (confirmed) The basic idea here is that vehicles would actually be quite common, but far more difficult to repair and generally spawning with missing/damaged components. This means salvaging parts from different vehicles would be a necessity, and doing so would require tools. This way, you could take an alternator from one car, a battery from another, a few pistons from this truck, ect, and then consolidate those items into your vehicle of choice and get it running. Some parts could also spawn in garages and industrial areas of course, those having a higher chance of being Pristine or in decent condition at least. -Taking doors and armoring cars has already been talked about by Rocket, so I don't think this needs to be addressed to much. Perhaps with a welding torch you could attach armor. Doors and other outside components from vehicles could be salvaged and used with basic tools like a wrench or screwdriver. 2: Air Vehicles While flying air vehicles in the mod had a small degree of difficulty, it isn't enough. Starting a plane or a helicopter is a process that requires some knowledge, and this should be reflected in the game. Take on Helicopters has a good system which requires preflight and startup, and how convenient, it uses the RV engine. Now imagine trying to do this with no prior research or instruction. You're probably not getting off the ground. And that's how it should be. Nobody is born knowing how to fly a helicopter. In game books could provide a medium for delivering these instructions to the player without forcing them to break their play and look for a youtube video, but of course that's perfectly fine too. It's all about what the player personally knows and is good at, which is right in the vein of DayZ. Anyone can do it, but not everyone is going to take the time to learn. If it's naturally difficult, players who know how to pilot a helicopter successfully are going to have a natural "value" for their skill, which nobody can take away. No matter how many times you die, you are personally still skilled at flying a helicopter in DayZ. Air vehicles should have a similar repair system to cars, as in the engine, rotors, and other major components being "containers" for minor components. Carrying around a whole helicopter rotor is totally insane, but carrying around bearings, control rods, swash plates, and the like, is far more believable and adds a degree of difficulty to repairing a helicopter that we never had before. Similarly, helicopter engines should have their own class of components and should be rare to find, or they could be salvaged from another helicopter. Medicine, Surgery, and Physical Conditioning. Right now the combat in DayZ could be described as binary at best. Either you are: 1: Conscious. 2: Conscious with broken legs. 3: Unconscious. 4: Dead. That doesn't really leave a lot of room for improvisation. So here are my ideas. The Organ System - Create hit boxes for major organs. Each organ (similar to a car part) would have a damage state. By default, they are healthy and normal. Being shot, stabbed, or hit with a blunt object would change the state of the organs affected to hurt, punctured, or eviscerated. Obviously different organs would have different damage thresholds. For example, a punctured brain or heart would obviously kill you immediately. A punctured lung, liver, or stomach, on the other hand, would not. - A hurt organ (66%~80% health) would heal itself over a short time, assuming your player is fed and hydrated. - A punctured organ (33% - 66% health) would take a VERY long time to heal (2+ hours in game), and would cause your character constant pain and would affect your mobility. - An eviscerated organ ( <33%) would not heal on it's own and would result in unconsciousness and rapid death by internal bleeding. Internal vs. External bleeding Wounds should cause different types of bleeding. Zombie attacks, minor knife wounds, and other blunt trauma would only cause external bleeding. A punctured organ would cause minor internal bleeding, which would make you nauseous and light-headed. An eviscerated organ would cause major internal bleeding, which would make you sick, cause you to cough up lots of blood, and ultimately lead to a grim death. Realistic Morphine. Says it all. This shouldn't be a simple cure-all for broken legs. It should be a pain killer and a way to prevent unconsciousness. Broken legs should be mended through splinting, and should cause your player to limp for a period of time. Whatever happened to those limping animations, rocket? Bullets in the Body Bullets should have a chance of remaining in your body until they are removed. This could be done with forceps, a scalpel, or even a knife and some pliers. Removing bullets would not be a necessity, but leaving them in would increase the amount of time it takes your body to heal. Additional States of Consciousness I'm talking knockdowns. When a person is shot in the chest, arm, or leg, it's not typically instant unconsciousness or death. Often times they are barely conscious, in a state of shock, but still able to do certain things. Implementing more knockdown states and animations could really add to the gunplay. For example, instead of simply "going prone" when you get hit in the leg, you should also be able to sit up and drag yourself around, much like the sitting animation from Arma 3. In this state, you could back yourself into a corner and use your gun to defend yourself. You could also try to crawl to safety. As stated before, your organ status would have an effect on your health. This also applies in this state. Say you're in a house, and someone shoots you in the chest through the window. The shot knocks you down, and you drag yourself into a corner with an awful pounding in your head, wheezing as your punctured lung fills with excess fluid. You quickly apply a bandage and wait for your assailant to enter the door, at which point you unload your pistol into his neck and face, killing him. Now at this point, you might just have to sit there and wait to die. If you were hit in the heart, your death is imminent. You're coughing up blood, wheezing, waiting for death, and it doesn't happen. So you crawl upstairs and use a pair of pliers and a bayonet to dig a bullet from your side. You inject yourself with morphine to ease the pain, and slowly but surely you begin to recover. Defibrillators - Defibs should work on unconscious and dead players, as long as they haven't respawned yet, or within 15 minutes (whichever comes first). Furthermore, defibrillators should only restore a person's consciousness. They would not fix damaged organs or bleeding. Tool Based Surgery Basically, if you have the right tools, you can do different things. A scalpel or a knife will allow you to make incisions. Forceps or pliers will allow you to remove bullets. A suturing kit will allow you to attempt to repair organs. So if a person is shot in the stomach, your first measure would be to remove the bullet. Next, you want to make an incision. Then, with a suturing kit, you could actually make an attempt to repair the organ. Of course depending on the damage of said organ, you have less of a chance of succeeding. This can all be done through items you have equipped. So let's say you have a patient, dying from internal bleeding. You give him a saline bag to keep his blood pressure up. You give him morphine (or vodka; I like to think there should be multiple ways to do the same thing) to stop the pain and prevent him from going into shock. Then, you put the scalpel in your hand and choose "make incision." You put the suturing kit in your hand and choose "repair organ(s)" This plays an animation and takes some time, and obviously he is loosing blood as you do this. Based on some simple dice rolls, you will either receive a message that says "you have failed to repair (player's) (organ)." or "you have successfully repaired (player's) (organ)." Then, you can choose "close incision" with the suturing kit, which will stop the blood loss. Assuming you were successful, the player will now be able to make a full recovery. If you are not, the player will die of internal bleeding. Or you could choose to simply leave the incision open and let him bleed out. The possibilities are endless. - Contaminated tools would also impart any infections they have to your patient. They could also pick up infections from a patient who is already sick. This would make disinfecting medical items to prevent infection very important, which brings me to another point. Resistance When your player catches a particular infection and manages to overcome it, that character should become resistant to that particular illness. After catching the same sickness two or three times and surviving, you would become totally immune. If you die, you would lose this immunity. This both adds an incentive to survive an infection, and provides just a little extra motivation to keep your character alive longer. It's realistic, and it isn't a "level" or a "skill" of any kind. I mean, just imagine the kind of stories we could be telling each other on these forums. How "I found a survivor and nursed him back to health, and later he betrayed me." Or how people might actually become friends over such an event. Or "I tried to save my friend but he was too far gone and I had to put him down." That sort of thing. It would make the experience far more compelling. Crafting. (Confirmed) This is something I think we are all impatient to see in it's full glory. Rocket has talked about making improvised explosives, combining certain items, ect. We need this. Fortunately the dev team is most likely already working on their own plans so I don't feel like I need to say much here. Hunting and Gathering. (confirmed) - Animals must behave realistically. There was nothing more annoying to me than the deer in Oblivion which couldn't even outrun your player. It's silly. Deer can run in excess of 30 mph, which means stealth and patience are key. - Traps. Setting up snares to capture hare, laying down salt or corn in a field to attract a deer to your killzone, ect. - Dangerous animals. Boar are known to cause horrible lacerations with their tusks, are quite territorial, and tend to travel in packs. Also, coming across wolves or the occasional Eurasian brown bear would be awesome and terrifying. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2361758/The-wolfs-door-Killer-beasts-roaming-Western-Europe-time-100-years.html - I saw a while back some pictures of the team Mo-capping dogs and horses. Hopefully this means dogs could be used to help the player hunt, either by catching rabbits, or by leading you to prey animals. Also dogs could alert you of danger, like wolves, bears, zombies, and even nearby humans. Construction. The title says it all. We need the ability, and the necessity, to build fortifications, camps, and barricades. While I admit that many features of Epoch are not suitable for the Standalone, I think it provides a good model of how construction can be put to use effectively in this game. - Cold should be a real part of this game. I was hoping that the breath was going to be an indicator of that mechanic, but sadly it isn't. Temperatures should drop at night in particular. Your character should shiver, as on Namalsk. Messages like "I feel cold," "I'm freezing," and "I can't feel my fingers" should be indicators of hypothermia, which will not only prevent your character from healing and make you hungry more rapidly, but will also knock you unconscious and kill you if you don't find a way to warm yourself up. Cooking food and making hot drinks like tea or coffee should also help with this. - Safes, lockable cars, and other storage devices are part of this. - All player constructions should be destructible by other players and zombies, which means you are never truly safe. - Enforcing a certain amount of maintenance for constructions would prevent players from building things that are way too massive, and would help the server to automatically clean up any unused constructions. -Building anything larger than a door barricade, or a small wall, or a tent, should require lots of heavy materials and should even require that more than one person interact with a construction simultaneously. You can't carry thousands of pounds of cinder blocks on your own in real life, nor are you going to throw up a wooden shack in minutes. Needing an extra pair of hands is one of the main themes through these ideas, as with surgery. Requiring a certain level of cooperation for certain actions will increase player interaction, whether it's good, bad, or neutral. Zombies. The ultimate threat. Zombies are probably the biggest challenge this game has to face. They simply must be a viable threat to players. They should be fast, they should be able to knock players down, grab players and slow them down, and of course their numbers have to be up to snuff. They should also be able to tear down player fortifications and move in herds. Someone else made a thread and suggested that zombies should also be able to spawn inside buildings (which are not player controlled, of course) and lie dormant on couches, beds, inside car wrecks and such. This would bring a nice sense of context to the zombie virus and would make looting much more dangerous. It would also be neat if they had a 50/50 chance of being alive when they spawn in these stationary positions, to maintain that element of surprise. A Larger Game World. I made a post about this idea a few months ago, and I think down the road it's going to be the only option to keep the game feeling alive and fresh. http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/149976-long-term-standalone-discussion-globalization-logistics-economy-and-more/ Basically the way it works is through a "cell" based mega map. Reaching the edge of one map would give you an in-game server browser, which would allow you to move to the next map. With this technique, the game world could be basically endless. Of course there are a few technical hurdles to accomplish with this idea, such as enabling vehicles to travel across servers and such, but I think it's a worthwhile consideration. Another key feature of this cell system is that travelling into a new cell increases the value of your character's life, as you would not be able to respawn in what I call the "frontier" cells. This would add a more survivalist aspect to the game, where having made it across many different maps would be a status players could wear with pride. Also, adding higher value loot, buildings, and more interesting areas outside the spawn map would provide an incentive for players to explore more and utilize the systems which I have proposed above. This could really tie the game together into what I would consider a "full release title." So there it is. Probably the longest post I've ever made. Any other ideas like this? I'm talking big picture stuff here. People seem to be attracted to negativity on this forum, so it's hard to get these kinds of ideas rolling throughout the community. Instead, we tend to focus on troll threads and nonsense complaints, when really, this is just the beginning of what DayZ could be. The solution to KoS mentality is not to punish killers. It's giving them something else to do, and this is it. This is the "something else" that we could be doing. Exploring. Hunting. Building. Learning to fly helicopters and repair vehicles. Removing bullets from our injured friends. Facing massive hoards of terrifying zombies. Overcoming sickness. Surviving. Happy new year everyone!

No offense, but I would simply like to point out that DayZ isn't like that... At all. We need more zombies for this, which is why I suggested it in my OP :P BTW, maybe a mod could move this to the new suggestions area?

I'm tired of talking about the nit-picky little devices that everyone wants or doesn't want to see right now. Let's discuss the more epic aspects of this zombie apocalypse and how the dev team can continue to add to the depth of this game later in it's life. So we're talking long term here. We can all see how the creation of this mod has both marked, and shaped, a shift in the game market. Just look at the games we see following rapidly in it's wake. WarZ, Nether, 7 Days to Die, The Dead Linger, the Division, the list goes on. The drive for these kinds of environments is obviously the newest frontier in gaming. With this, the demand for persistence and richness of content is growing rapidly... Plus, I think we can all appreciate how the Standalone has to compete against it's own free mod. It has to transcend the level of gameplay we already have. As I listened to NPR today (as I do every morning), I started thinking about the more global implications of an apocalypse scenario, and I think the box of Chernarus is severely limiting the future potential of this game. We've already discussed ideas like map portals and such (the ability to physically travel to the border of one map and join another cell and server). This is going to become absolutely necessary. Allow me to set up a little scenario. - The mega map. Just imagine for a moment that through map-stitching, it were possible to spawn, travel all the way from the coast of Chernarus to the northern border of the map, and keep going through cell after cell of environments. If the devs really wanted to, over time they could stitch together an absolutely massive game world. I'm not actually postulating that we could ever reach the size of say, the earth; but Altis is pretty damn huge. Now imagine that you had traveled from the coast of Chernarus, through possibly three cells of complete terrain, and you're all the way in Germany. Now imagine that death would send you to the previous cell, or even back to your original spawn cell (assuming there's no way to establish a remote spawn of some kind). Wanna talk about perma death, consequences, curing the community of "Why don't I just kill myself instead of deal with this broken leg" syndrome? This is it. Totally, incomprehensibly vast physical distance. It would be nigh impossible to travel to your previous location and retrieve your gear. Your camp, or fortification, or stash, might be 40,000 km away. - A persistent item economy would mean that logistics, production, and trade would become a logical necessity. The movement of goods is one of the world's oldest known professions. The silk road dates to over 5000 years ago, and just look at it's expanse. Because of the death mechanic, these frontier areas would be high risk, high value areas where seasoned survivors would go to explore, search for more supplies (or rare items), and maybe even attempt to establish their own safes areas, camps, or stashes, since they would likely be less frequented by other players as they grow more distant from the original spawn point. So it's safer in the aspect that you could more easily try to hide a camp in these lower population, higher risk zones. -Radio towers. Towers could have access panels which you might interface a radio with, and thus use that radio to broadcast communications with anyone who has a radio in other cells (In the same server group.) This would make it feasible for, heh, stalkers I guess, to communicate with other players and potentially initiate trades from vast distances. Maybe using the tower would have some limitations, like only allowing you talk to one cell at a time. -Production. The crafting system is a step in the right direction, but I think it should be taken a little further. Imagine if you could find a generator, and use it to power machinery inside a factory, and then gather raw materials to produce things like new guns, for example. Or car parts. Or what if power plants could be brought back online and kept online to produce electricity? These are daunting tasks, which would require lots of scavenging and teamwork to accomplish, but they have obvious benefits. Control over a structure gives you the ability to defend yourself from zombies (which should be a serious threat and a major concern a lot of the time), and also it would provide you with warmth and a place to store gear, which brings me to my next point. - Safes with keys. I saw this one on a DayZ doodle rant, and I think it's a pretty good idea; Buildings could randomly, here and there, have an open safe with a corresponding key inside. The safe would allow you to store a limited amount of gear (maybe certain safes could be larger or smaller than others) with relative safety. Keys of course would have to be indestructible and persistent to the server (or server group, rather) that they were generated on. This means that going to another server group would result in the key not appearing in your inventory, and being added back to your inventory when you return to that server group. This might necessitate some kind of special "key ring" inventory slot which would function independently of the space or weight of your normal inventory, so as to avoid glitchyness and confusion. Also, if a key is not retrieved from a corpse, it should be automatically returned to the person who died with it. Perhaps safes could even be sabotaged with explosives (and repaired, so they don't all end up destroyed and useless), so they aren't perfectly "safe" either. Also, players could possibly use certain tools like a file, or a grinder, to produce copies of a key, which they could then give to other players whom they trust. Anyway just some big ideas to get you guys going. I'm tired. Anyone else have pipe dreams like this? I'm talking large scale stuff people, come on, GET IN. We can think of some crazy shit. Discuss. Here are the diagrams made later in the forum discussion. Bringing them here for ease of access. A little diagram of player spread and movement across a 2x2 cell setup - a goal I think is entirely feasible to accomplish by next year.

Skyrim doesn't have multiplayer net-code. Solve that problem and consider your point to be proven, sir.

I don't care about the stigma on clothes. I wear what conceals me. The only good bet is to see the other person first.

Wow. Why did they all shoot? Very poor fire-discipline. One shot should have been sufficient to incap that man if necessary. That was disgusting... Also I agree. This is off topic. Whatever it has to do with DayZ is very far removed.

Lol, "boo hoo rain makes sniping harrrd I'm done with this shit!" As if rain doesn't make sniping hard in real life? Ever worn a pair of glasses in the rain dude? It's awful. All that fog and drops on the lens... Uhg.

There are going to be special backpacks which can hold rifles. Rocket stated this a while ago on a livestream.

Good stuff, generally good rules to go by. Voice contact is the most useful element in terms of finding friendly people. However, many people will befriend you only to kill you soon as you aren't looking.

Sounds beast as fuck.

<------- Yes please.

Nudity is disabled by default. What's with this fanboyism? Let the man make his own decision.

"Bitch about Rust"? It's a valid comparison. They are very similar games. Besides, have you seen my post count? Obviously I support this game, and I don't see any reason why I can't support Rust as well. Verbal violence? Get over it. Logical fallacy is the refuge of the incompetent, and creating a false dilemma like "you can't like two different games at the same time" is a perfect example of such.

Yeah, seriously. I'm here because I support this game - it has potential. However, it is lacking a lot. The interesting thing about Rust is that it isn't so different from DayZ, and yet the way people behave in that game, on the whole, is very different. Moreover, why do you care? You joined like, yesterday. You don't get to kick me - or anyone else for that matter - out of the forums, so why don't you fuck off and mind your own business? Gonna throw more caps-lock my way? You're actually just proving the OP's point by beings such a prick. Every one of your videos show people grouping up together, even if it is against other people. The guy in the second video is talking about how he is protecting his children. So basically, you just defeated your own fucking point - Thane is correct. Families group together. The real human drive to survive and reproduce is constant, otherwise, you wouldn't exist right now. You should wake up. It's spelled "philosophy," genius.

I love how people on this forum manage to convince themselves that Rust is the exact same as DayZ. 20 hours into that game and I formed a town with 30+ people, all of us making a ruckus and generally failing at organizing ourselves - it was still hilarious. Granted, some people attacked us and whatnot, but that only increased the bond within our little township. Like it or not, that game does compel a much higher degree of teamwork than this one. No matter what the anti-Rust crowd says, they can't remove the half a dozen people who have joined my Steam friends list because of that game. Friends from DayZ? Zero. Numbers don't lie. As for the OP - well, welcome to the Hunger Games the Video Game + 10 whole zombies. Maybe it'll be a little more balanced once the environment changes, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Considering that both the games put together equals the price of one standard triple A title, I don't see the dilemma. Buy both. First of all, people who judge Rust based on it's "visuals" are a: shallow, and b: probably haven't even played the game. Let me break down the two for you very simply. Rust is something like a minecraft/DayZ hybrid. Some people will kill you, yes - but if you are persistent and talk to people, chances are you will find some who are friendly and will group up with you. Gathering materials is the major curve. Construction is the major goal, and defending your base from intruders and raiding others makes it very entertaining. I've made good friends on there, with a Vent channel and everything. The enemies you make (and you will, trust me) can be frustrating, but over time you get the hang of it - besides, rivalries make the game fun. Once you know how to get around, dying is not such a disappointment. As for hackers - just stay off official servers and find community servers where there are active admins, who can ban hackers immediately. It makes the game much better. DayZ is gritty, unpleasant, and mostly a solitary experience. It's significantly harder to find people who are friendly. Becoming a ruthless killer is the major curve. There is no construction at the moment, and the map is much larger than Rust. The rewarding aspect of DayZ is when you have a group of players whom you already know and trust, or when you manage to kill someone who is attacking you - that sort of thing. It's about overcoming the environment. Basically, DayZ is much more challenging and immersive than Rust, but not as fun. One will often have you laughing hysterically, the other will have you swearing at your monitor. Don't get me wrong, I like DayZ for that reason, but they're just different experiences. Furthermore, I don't know where people are getting this "80% completed" crap about Rust. It's still early access. "We feel like we aren’t making it clear enough that the game is Early Access. Rust is still in development. This isn’t 95% finished, like a regular beta. This is 10% finished. We’ve got the bare bone foundations of a game here. We’re still developing it." - That's from the official site. It's still being developed. People on this forum are naturally going to be biased - just look at the replies. Most of these people haven't even played the game, so don't expect a fair argument. Someone who "watched a few videos" and decided it looked like crap - well, they really have no clue what they're talking about. I've spent 47 hours in Rust, I have a base where I live with like 15 other people (seriously, it gets hard to keep track) and we have a blast. I've spent 66 hours in the SA (don't even mention the mod, you don't want to know), and honestly, I'm waiting for more. Right now, it's a glorified pick-up-loot-and-then-free-for-all deathmatch. It'll be much better later.

Why you annoy me: You are pretentious and you make assumptions about people's personalities based on how they play a video game. 'Nuff said. Dean with it.

Who honestly gives a shit? It'll be done when it's done.

I didn't get my character wiped with the last update. I still have the same Mosin I found on a dead guy weeks ago. It isn't impossible.

Have you considered that server hopping effects the amount of items you find? Guy logs into balota on 50 servers, well now those servers are not going to have any loot until the reset. By preventing hopping they can keep the concentration of loot higher and more persistent on the server. They shouldn't mess with the loot until they know what kind of effect these changes will have on looting. Besides, it's not even that hard to find gear in this game. I don't see why people complain so much.

"We NEED some way to identify heros and bandits." No we don't. Can this topic just... go away now?

LOL, beat me to it. Nice. And African, all words are made up. Go read a fucking book.

That's... That's the whole point. And even then melee is just one example. There's going to be projectile weapons like bows, cross bows, improvised firearms, ect. Also they've already confirmed things like improvised explosive devices. The point is to bring a wider diversity of weapons so it's not just gun play all the time. It doesn't have to be that way. If finding a gun and ammo for it is a rare achievement, then people are going to be far less inclined to waste their ammo and risk their lives doing things like attacking fresh spawns. It's about balance and diversity of gameplay. Guns aren't the only weapons in the world. CoD is that way >>>>>>>>> Besides, they aren't even removing those things. They're just making that stuff rarer. There's more to this game than "1337 military gear and acog scopes." It's supposed to be a survival game, not a superficial gun collector simulation.

It's not one way or the other, dude. You can still PvP with other types of weapons. Melee combat is going to become more important. It doesn't change anything. People will still kill each other regardless - they'll just have to change their tactics about it. You might as well argue that Chivalry isn't a PvP game because it doesn't have m16s and ak47s, lol.