Redshift

My one trip to green mountain was the same way. It is possible that the military building spawns loot around it or in doorways as opposed to inside it. There are some residential buildings like that, and I know that at least the hospital in Berezino has a chance to spawn items in the trash pile at the base of the ladder.

So what you are saying is that you posted a thread who's opening post states authoritativly that "This is how it works". When in actuality you have no clue what you are talking about? Good job.

I know, I know everywhere you look you see the word ALPHA. It's on the main page, it’s posted in topic titles all over the place, and nearly every single thread has at least one person talking about how "this is still in ALPHA". So it should be obvious that, yes this game is in fact in the ALPHA testing phase. But is it really? The two types of video game testing that most people are acquainted with are the Alpha and Beta test phases. Alpha testing is normally done by a very small and carefully chosen list of testers. It is more advanced than a "proof of concept" type phase, but is not fully functional yet. Drastic changes to a games design are made regularly in order to test differing options and find generally what works best. Beta testing is the phase most people have had actual experience with. It is often (increasingly so) widely available to large numbers of testers who are only minimally screened for desired qualifications, if they are screened at all (i.e. an open beta). During this phase the game is largely stable as is the design and concepts of the game. Some new features might be added, but most of the work is fine tuning aspects already in the game as well as finding as many bugs as possible. This phase can also be used for stress testing the game and it's servers in the case of online games. Now I fully expect that a large portion of people playing DayZ have previously had Beta testing experience, probably in multiple games. Beta testing is increasingly used as a "preview" of a game to draw in more players, which is sad because it squanders this phase and these games tend to be release with proportionally more bugs than games that engage in real beta testing (but that is a separate debate). I would also expect the number of people who have real Alpha testing experience to be low. I have been in more Beta's than I can count or remember, and have been part of 2 true Alpha Tests (A tale in the desert 2, and Irth Online). From my experience DayZ is more firmly in the Beta phase than it is in any type of Alpha phase. Lets ignore the fact of the "anyone can come test" type of operation which is exactly what an Open Beta is, because there is nothing that would stop a developer from saying "heck why not have an Open Alpha Test" and it could still be perfectly valid. But, the game is largely stable and the overall design itself is stable. You don't see large scale changes to the game, most of what we see are tweaks to the existing structure. Sure Rocket is adding a few new things in (bear traps, dogs in the future ect), but even these are relatively minor additions. The obvious question now is "So what, and who cares". Beyond calling it a Beta rather than an Alpha what does it matter? Well, on the surface it doesn’t matter at all. But the reason I made this post to begin with is less about "convincing people this is a Beta instead of an Alpha" and more about "convincing Rocket that this should be an Alpha and treating it like one". I would love to see him start really testing things instead of falling back on "well its worked ok up to now so we will leave it alone and maybe tweak here and there". Each patch should be introducing drastic new changes and really force people to try things out and re-evaluate play styles from the top down in order to find what really works best. Just one example of what I am talking about would be weapon spawns. They seem to have been fairly static at the current percentages for a while. What we should see is more along these lines: -In the next patch noticeably increase the chances of military grade spawns. More high end weapons and gear such as gps and night vision goggles. Make them easy to get, so that everyone has them and can get them with a little bit of effort. See how this affects the game and players. -The following patch reduces the chances of military gear to so low that most players will never see them. Force players to use only civilian type weapons and see how this affects game play. -Then remove rifles (both military and civilian) from the game completely. The only types of weapons available are melee weapons and pistols. -Next patch put all weapon types back in the game, but reduce the amount of ammunition found drastically. See how this scarcity affects game play. And in-between every patch forces a character wipe, so that everyone has to use the same testing parameters. The same could be used for almost every aspect of the game. -Reduce the amount of food and water that spawns, forcing players to really skirt the edge of starvation. -Make zombies much less observant and slower but increase the numbers they spawn by ten-fold. -Reduce the number of zombies that spawn by a factor of 10 but make those zombies super-dangerous. -Markedly increase the effects of weather. You get cold easier to where rain really affects you. These are just a very few examples of different things that could be tested if we were willing to really engage in an Alpha test. But it would require frequent character wipes, and the willingness to throw out our assumptions and drastically change things from patch to patch. I know that many people wont like this idea, because they are playing the game as if it were a fully finished retail game. They dont want their characters wiped, they dont want to have to rethink their strategies, they just want the game to stay as it is so they can play it how they have always played it. But that doesnt really sway me. If this is an Alpha test then lets test things, lets push the envelope. Otherwise lets stop pretending this is anything but an open beta. I say we should really be engaging in this type of testing, so that we can find out what actually works best through testing the parameters in every way possible. Maybe we will come back around in the end and say "the initial setting worked pretty well, let’s go back to that". Maybe we would find that there is a much better way of proceeding. But whatever was found to be best would be found through testing, and we would KNOW it is the best way because of it. Because right now we are all proceeding based on the assumption that the game is basically in its finished format with only tweaking and bug fixes that need to be completed. These are assumptions because the basic format of the game has never really been pushed or changed drastically.

Obviously Rocket will ultimatly do what he wants to, what he feels is best for the game. But saying that we should not provide input and opinions is non-productive. If he didnt want input and opinions then there wouldnt be an open test. It is not a right of testers to give their opinions and input, it is our responibility. Just like it is our responsibility to report bugs and exploits instead of abusing them and keeping them as our own personal secrets. Rocket will either read this thread, or not. If he reads it maybe he will say "there is some validity to that, maybe I should try it", or he wont and will ignore it. I am not "telling" him what to do, I am giving input and another perspective. In any case; we as players/testers putting our opinions out there can only either help the project or have no impact on it at all, it can not hurt the game.

Your input is invaluable, and your post really added to the discussion. Good job. . True. I probably spent too much time on the definitions and such. I was just trying to use that as a way of highlighting the mindset that go along with different phases of testing. But you are right, in the end what it is called doesnt matter. A war of semantics doesnt help anyone, but open discussion does :)

Server wipes for the sake of server wipes is not at all what I am advocating. Server wipes should only be used to facilitate changes that are drastic and encompassing. Using them as some hope of artificially promoting cooperation is backward and non-productive.

My buddy and I were running around together tonight when we walked into a supermarket. I see a guy in front of me with a shotgun who appears to be examining his crotch (or he could have been looting, we will never know). My countless experiences with attempting to be friendly and subsequently being killed because of it caused me to shoot him repeatedly until he died from it. Afterward my buddy said "You know it would be really great if when you killed someone their microphone automatically turned on so that you could hear them bitching about it". And yea I think that could be a lot of fun ;D

Actually what you are describing in the second paragraph is Beta testing for the most part (from my experience). Bugs, glitches, exploits, performance and stability. Those are things that shouldnt get a ton of focus in an Alpha (some focus yes, but not the majority of it). Only testing functionality is really a focus of an Alpha test from your list, and those functionality type issues are exactly what I used as examples. Alpha testing is for testing the engine itself (not as necessary since it uses ARMA2 engine which is broadly known to work) to make certain that there are not "game breaking bugs" (things that make entire servers crash for example). And testing the basic mechanics of the game world. The game is laregly stable, it runs, people can play it. There is half of what an Alpha is for, done and over with. Yes there are still some connection issues, and they should also be worked on but not to the exclusion of everything else. So yes, testing to see if the game plays better with only melee weapons and pistols is very appropriate for Alpha stage. Because IF that worked out best, then it would be a core concept that the game would revolve around. This is important to get ironed out as early on as possible because there is no reason to spend time focusing on working out bugs and exploits if those bugs and exploits revolve around mechanics that might be taken out of the game entirely. I agree completely on all points. If all you are changing from patch to patch are minor things, making tweaks and small adjustments then there is no need for character wipes. This is currently what we are doing now, and I dont think that the patches we are seeing deserve wipes because of it. However, what I was proposing would be changing major aspects of the game with each patch. And in those cases you could not effectivly test, for instance, how the game plays with Melee/pistols only if there are people who have AKMs and DMRs grandfathered in. Um not really but kind of yes. A lot of very succesful alpha testing comes from having every single player playing the same way in the same area under similar circumstances. For instance in a MMO, this weekend you test a single faction and no one can play any other faction, all players are the same level and can't level up past a certain point and start in a specific area. That results in wonderful test data since all of the testing is specifically focused to find issues that could go largely unnoticed in a more general no-restrictions type of test. Now, I'm not saying we should restrict players to Cherno and give them all shotguns. That type of overly specific testing, I dont think, would work for this game. But saying that forcing people to test the same things under similar circumstances doesnt result in good data is wrong.

Oh I am well aware of bugs being part of any testing phase (heck with most game companies Bugs are a fact of life with retail releases), Im not bitching or whining, just talking about experience :) Odd thing here. One of the "random agro" incidents was when we crawled down to the military tents. While I was crawling I got agro so I stood up and ran around the camo netting in the center of the soccer field, and then into one of the tents. Figured that I would probably lose LOS and if not well it was a single chokepoint entrance so I should be safe. The zed ended up following me into the tent so I shot it, at this point every zombie near me agro'd (as expected) but none of them tried to come in the front of the tent. They either sat outside to side or the back of the tent trying to hit me through the wall (and sometimes running through the walls to get to me). They shouldnt have had LOS to me (possibly the ones on the side, but certainly not the ones on the backside). Im guessing this was a bug or "feature" of the tent and may not have happened if I ran into a more solid building, but it was still odd. Neither really. I was about halfway inbetweeen the edge and the middle.

I would dissagree with this point. Playing last night there were multiple times where I would be crawling through town only to have a zombie that was nowhere near me perk up and run screaming at me. It seems they have a random chance to spot you pretty much irregarless of what you do to prevent this from happening. The only way I see the new behavoir really affecting Banditry is that now crouching on a building to snipe does not mean you are safe from zombie agro. Was in Berezino on top of the apartments waiting for my buddy to get into town so we could play together. I was crouched and not moving around when two zombies ran screaming into the building and started climbing the ladder up to my position. I never had a zed agro me up there before, and there was no reason they should have agro'd then, but they did. So this random chance to spot people even when they are on a building could affect bandits, but I doubt it will prove much of an obsticle.

Where: US 77 When: Tonight I logged in tonight to make some progress on my new character after having been killed at the NW airfields the night before. I didnt have much of anything of note and was near Elektro so I decided what the heck and made my way to the firestation (northern most one). No zombies around so I go inside just as they start spawning. I got lucky and found am16 w/ M203 launcher and 5 clips. Im jazzed and happy and then hear a LOUD sniper rifle near me. I see a guy with a rifle on top of another building near me but looking the other way and decide to try my luck and flank behind him. When I get into position I hear a lot of gunfire and decide to hightail it out of the area. Only when I turn around (I was on top of the hill at this time) I see a jeep sitting next to a tent on the hill. I run to it and find a treasure trove in the tent: AS50 + 3 clips, Night vision goggles, range finder to name a few. I loot it and run to the jeep. I pass a bicycle and a tractor as I pull out as well. When I find a safe spot I jump out and check the trunk, inside are 2 more AS50's, more ammo, ALL of the survival tools (map, compass, gps ect), and 4 tents, plus misc other gear that I didnt bother to really make note of. At this point I look around (not that far from where I found the jeep but higher in the hills) and see 6 more tents deployed right next to each other, so I run them all over also without bothering to even check them and drive off. My concern is that it seems fairly obvious that someone has used a hack or duping scheme to get these items. Nothing that I found was an item you can't find in the game legitimately, but there were so many of them that it is highly suspect. Am I in danger of having a ban because I found this gear? I gained it, in my mind at least, legitimately. I used no hacks or exploits, and was in danger while looting (he could have come back at any time). What do yall think?

More like "Damnit!" but yea, not really a suggestion that is likely to be implemented. Just a humerus thought.

Well when I logged in tonight I was back where I started the night before, with all of this gear gone. Rollback apparently. So I decided to hoof it and run straight for where the group of tents were. When i finally got there they were all flattened. Odd that a rollback affected my character but not the tents.

Ok fair enough, and thank you :)

Didnt say that it HAD to be duped. Just that it was very suspect in my opinion.

Something similar happened to me tonight. Just loaded up the new patch (I have the latest beta also). I had logged out in a Ghillie suit. When I log back in I instantly see the "You have died" screen. When I respawn I am standing with NOTHING at all on me, not even a backpack. But my body was laying right in front of me with all of my old gear on it (minus the ghillie). I check my debug monitor and am I ajust as hurt when I logged out (10k health), and have the same number of kills, but I am showing a broken leg icon (with no broken leg to go with it).

Just wanted to respond to this comment. So many people shout on the forums that "this is an Alpha stop complaining", but still forget what an Alpha is actually for that it makes me sick. In an Alpha everything is being tested, and overhauled completely, and worked on. You should be fully prepared to have all of your gear taken away from you on a moments notice, not by other players or zombies killing you, but instead by the Dev. Characters should be getting wiped, saved vehicles and tents removed all over the place. Not because there is something wrong with them being in the game, but because you can't have an effective Alpha test if everything is treated as sacred and untouchable. The fact that these types of wipes happen is not surprising, it's the fact that they don't happen more often that is a surprise.

http://techli.com/2012/06/rockstar-cheaters-max-payne-3/ I am all for the perma-banning of cheaters. I have zero sympathy for them. Hacks and exploits have ruined some of the most fun games I have played. And the worst part is that 90% or more of them didn't even write the hacks they are using, they just downloaded it like the script kiddies they are. That being said I do get a kick out of Rockstars approach. Instead of banning the cheaters (lets face it, they will just go download another script that someone else wrote that will let them play again), Rockstar has created a system so that cheaters will only be able to play against other cheaters. You think its fun to use auto-aim and shoot through walls? How fun will it be when everyone is doing it to you? I don't know if something like this would work here, but maybe its worth looking into.

Hmm ok I have not seen that. The two articles I read where it was mentioned simply said "Hall also mentioned something new that will be coming to the game. They are currently working to implement dogs, with a German Shepard being the first one introduced". If it was specified by him that they are companions outside of those articles then I am wrong, and my previous post can safely be ignored as misinformed.

There is an assumption that is being made in this thread that is unwarranted. The assumption is that the dogs that will be introduced will be friendly. It seems far more likely that dogs will be either solitary or pack animals roaming the forests and other empty areas of the game and that they will be hostile to players.

I was about to post this same question. After getting killed at the NW airfield I spawned inside a building in Novy Sobor. The building was kind of bugged and see-through and I appeared to be halfway in the floor, but it let me walk outside of the wall and everything returned to normal (except that a zombie spawned in the air and fell through the roof to die on the floor).

Also on the crowbar. While I havent used one myself I assume it works the same way as the axe. When you equip it in your main weapon slot you will need to "reload" it initially.

Wow ok I had assumed the OP was being sarcastic until I saw his second post. Just wow.