cirkular

Dayz population is pretty much like the devs, doing their own thing. Some are still playing regularly, some are just waiting until the next patch and so on. Let's just not overthink things along the way.

The short answer: I would still play it if Dayz becomes 1pp only :) The long answer - discussion: We've talked about this, I'll repeat myself most likely. I came from 1pp shooters too. Some flight and race car sims too. I was lucky to be there when Doom, Duke 3D, Quake and CS were out. I also loved BGS's Elder scrolls and Fallout games and would play in 1pp because it was kind of natural to me. Hell, early Elder scrolls didn't even have 3pp. But anyway, back then, we didn't have aim down sight, and then the sway and recoil, bullet trajectories etc. Now stamina too, and then that little lag when looking and moving around to add to inertia feel. But they added it here because people were sprint zig-zagging which made combat "gamey" in a game that tries to be authentic or realistic. In general, pvp wise, it was simpler, easier to aim back then, and the mechanics have evolved to complex pretty much. I think everyone for 1pp only need to ask themselves honestly if they are advocating for it purely for immersion or because there is some advantage of 3pp over 1pp. If it's not just about shooting, then I agree it's quite a thing to run around the corner only to collide with an infected or some other player. Or just to peak, and realize you might be in trouble. I'm on that side which doesn't play 1pp strictly now, since I've always felt more or less constrained within that "frame" for reasons already noted by people here like the cardboard thing on your head comparison, your eyes can move too - not only your head and so on. Maybe 3pp is wrong for this game, I don't know, maybe it is better to satisfy as much people as possible, since this is a product to be sold after all. It's easier to play in 3pp of course and for me it compensates a bit for being in the constraints of the virtual world with other players, and is a bit less tense, it's true. If the game was not multiplayer, then I think there'd be absolutely no problems if it was 1pp only. The devs already made some progress to make 3pp not that much advantageous over 1pp. Maybe if they limited/changed the camera panning movement even more to reduce the corner peeking thing? Like with the peek over walls thing. I remember a great horror game Dark corners of the Earth. What amazed me back then is that for quite some time in the game you had no weapons and was mostly efforts to evade and run away. It had a stress level limit which you had to manage but when reached, your character kills himself. And then remember you have other games that are 3pp only, like Warframe. Of course, the vision for Dayz is why I understand the arguments here for 1pp only. It could help justify this horror part of the label. I still remember some good scares and good encounters on Dayz Oldschool Hardcore server. But some people still want to play it as a shooter primarily, as much as any roleplayer does his own thing, since there are no rules and time limits. You spawn and you go to do as you please. I personally feel like this today, and like that the other day. I am happy that there is an option to make your Dayz server to a certain preference, 1pp only or both. But is this inevitable division of the whole player base more of a problem, or a welcoming option? What's good in the long run for both the players' experience and the product itself? But to get a bit ranty, there is so much more that is constraining in these games if you aim for closer to real life experience. Like traversing through some woods, my character getting stuck on a fallen big tree branch or any other obstacle like some low fence, but in real life my brain would tell my legs to do something about that while still concentrating on the goal. If I was going backwards not knowing it was there, I'd most likely trip over and fall. It's frustrating being locked in an animation. I keep not making a shot through the window of a house because I move my weapon around like a stiff corpse or a statue. I guess the ultimate goal would be to get as close as possible but I don't see a point in time when games reach the level of your own brain's perception and your limbs movement. And currently VR and Track IR are the only things improving your vision here. Especially for racing sims and flight sims. But with VR it's tough to see your keyboard and mouse, and you have to use those funny controllers probably standing up, and then I'm afraid I'd reach a situation in game where I'd run out the window accidentally. To sum it up, it just all builds up to the point of nonsense. If I wanted a realistic shooter game, I'd be out paintballing or airsofting. But there's no real infected there, you already know most of the people there beforehand, and we'd probably just pause the game for eating and drinking haha

@LuxCapere Regarding this, the setting is chosen as a made up post-soviet country. It could be quite possible that you are fed-up with this setting, since we've been around Dayz early access for several years now. I've noticed this too. But for anyone getting a hold of this game only recently or only after a release, it would look awesome and additionally scary if the scenery is not what they're used to. I still find people on the servers who can't find a certain place on this huge map.

Yeah, well it's disappointing for everyone, if you talk about a finished 1.0 product getting stripped out of the announced and planned features. Here are my couple of thoughts: This is not a finished product. What you had before (stable 0.5x or 0.6x) and you don't have now (experimental 0.63) is a matter of developing process of making a game according to some vision of the game, at the same time trying to keep the visual/audio representation up to date. Also, you haven't been actually playing all this time. You are merely participating in an early access phase of a game in development. Some could get the best out of it and have real good fun even then, and also make some outstanding and funny video clips. Modding communities are built independently from a developer, as far as I understand it. Claiming that Dayz development is about Arma engine scripting that took five years, and then comparing it to 3D modelling is _____________. The graphics and scenery changes from 2014 compared to now are awesome. I'd also like to see some updated and more detailed and darker interiors, but we'll see what this new Enfusion engine is capable of. Check out this reddit page. Another big part of development in any online game is bug squishing and shutting down the cheating/hacking loopholes.

Well, I think it all depends what's logical and what the lore says about the way those people got infected and how the infection progressed. I like the idea that some soldier, a police man, a villager with a double-barrel or some hunter out in the woods caught the virus. Even a person from urban area who got hold of a weapon during the outbreak... you name it. Infected with a biker helmet on. Or a backpack. I think it should be easy to do and would add a bit more variety. It could add some chilling moments and confusion hearing a shot/shots. Seeing someone with a weapon, for at least a moment not knowing if that's a player or some infected who got stuck with that weapon, roaming around... Imagine those villagers holding a hay hook or a knife, now running at you... brrr. Instead of simply finding it in their inventory. Now, what if we had a mini-gun in a game like this? :D

Sure, when we talk about taste, it's an endless discussion of course :) Still, while you don't need to be a chef to have taste, you do need to be a chef if you plan on satisfying everyone in the room. If a person who awaits for food throws a grain of salt in the cooking pan instead of his plate only, just because he likes his food more salty, I can't see how are the others wrong about complaining. Works both ways.

And again, both OP and others get some good advice right at the start. I am not happy too to see the flaming soon after.

Well, personally for me, I read through some of posts like these beside OPs one, and get the general rage tone. There is little to no effort for making a post that hasn't got a reasonable critical but mocking tone, in most of the cases. And sure, I might be seeing what's not there after all. I understand you shouldn't discourage people from reporting issues and posting their opinions. You can write that you think this and that feature is a bit off or a way off. I am happy to join the cue on good thoughts about certain features. Pointing out something as you're watching someone work, without mocking comments along the way, seems to give better results in live conversations. And the disclaimer is there up front to inform you that there are problematic design decisions etc. which are subject to change. I don't get what's wrong with a reminder, especially about things that seem obviously wrong in current state.

I think there's already something like that when they spot you. I think it's like that. Way back it seemed to me that when they spot you and make that aggroed sound, the ones in vicinity also start running after you. It seems the scream they make, works as a trigger for the ones in vicinity. There was some new detection system implemented based on sounds, and I suppose should get some tweaking onwards. Here's the last status report link, where Eugen mentions AI Sensors/Audibility/Visibility right at the beginning. However, games in general have a problem with what happens after detection/aggro/"well he must've ran away" routine. I think if the devs get to implement this "alerting" thing, it's a good idea you have there. Definitely a step further. You'd need to stay well hidden for quite some time and pray if you can't fight them. They should search the nearby buildings/structures too, in my opinion. But it's a good direction so far with AI. I think it'll work even better in the future. They don't just lock on you as soon as you're detected like before. You can actually fire a shot behind a building, then run away and see them getting grouped up at that location, kind of like confused when they see there's no one around after all. You can draw their attention away. Not easy all the time but it worked for me.

Well, there's no Dayz reputation. Only comments about a game in development which creates an illusion of reputation. Although very effective one, knowing all the things being said and written about it. I'd totally agree with everything you say here if 1.0 was released this spring and was still broken. I think everyone involved with early access Dayz should receive daily email/notification or every time when attempting to post here should pop-up in the middle of their screens. Every time you need to click I understand. There's five sentences explaining everything and a button with a sentence for you to click on as a meaning of agreement. There should be one thousand developers and ten thousand PR needed to respond and attempt to fix every nook and cranny momentarily for your convenience. Or there should be another button "No, thanks" in which case the game deletes itself from your hard drive and takes you to some youtube Dayz hating content creator's channel.

@Shadowvamp It's okay but I think if you just keep the rants to pure observation levels, you'd not get so much hate here :D Also, time is accelerated like 12x I think and you need to take that into accout. So there's still tweaking to happen with many features. They'll get to it at certain point.

Yeah I agree. It looks that funny hahah

Yeah, it sure is not scientific. Not posting "scientifically" about a "scientific" subject such as the ongoing development and features that are to change here and there, all this while fighting the bug issues and plans to fulfill is exactly what's wrong with this thread too. You need to be on the same level. But you are just a player talking about game design. You and some other people keep trying to grab the steering wheel from the devs while some of us have to slap you on your hand to prevent killing us all and keep telling you that you should let them drive instead. It's not like that but it's a subjective feeling for sure. You can ask or propose where we should go, but we don't have to go where just you want us to go. You and your buddy. But I'm also positive that what you write and propose is all being looked on and noted by the devs for the future. Don't worry. In the best case all of this is like: https://media.giphy.com/media/3orieZg4GzSMjQ1YKk/giphy.gif

Why is there even a need to predict things? Will you play it soon or by the end of this year or not? To answer the question, no I don't think it'll be that much stress tests in the following builds and will be out this year. The 0.63 experimental version is out. It's the first version with the new engine and just some of the implementatinos. The more shit we point out to them properly on the feedback, the better and quicker to go stable. Every time. So upon finishing what's to be done with this experimental, the 0.63 stable is the beta you're talking about. Pointing out your predictions and speculations is not what anyone reasonable here is looking for. Hence the lame and funny answers we post. Because we're tired of discouragement like this post of yours. Some took it to the next level and damaged the reputation of the company severely. They went on with it without any consequences. But it's company just in the foreground. It's people in the background. But you know what? Bad word travels fast as we've seen and some of us want to explain why we are patient. Take your other favorite game you enjoyed or you enjoy now, and imagine to be in the same step of the development process before it was even out for the players to get. What Bohemia did with this Dayz early access is quite different to what would some big studios and publishers out there would do. You get to see and understand all the frustration and problems showing up with the development of a single game. Manage the anxiety. If you point your attention to some other games, and they overshadow what Dayz becomes, very well and it's not your fault and you shouldn't feel bad about it. It's the price the developer pays. I'm sure you like Dayz enough, and are eager to play it properly right now or really soon. Got no friends that play Dayz or won't stick anymore? Keep going, you might find some new to play Dayz with. Or don't. In the meantime, do have some reads here , here and here and follow the process from time to time if you're really interested in what goes on in development. Playing it comes second, until it's done. This forum and feedback page is for development purposes primarily, and all the other topics are to be read and filled with content for those who have more time, opportunity and energy. We didn't join just to play it really that much, but to help the development during our playtime. If that wasn't your vision, you should just wait for an announcement that it's done and do something else in the meantime. Far out, man!

Well now it's clear why it's called a stress test. Look, just don't get stressed out. OK?

You should be flamed for your post :D

Turns out this was a thing I noticed early and never had troubles with my commands. At least the way I bind them. Don't know why there is so much complaints about this.

Well I thought it was obvious but you see, when you say 'survival horror...' and then about finding some crucial items, you are talking about just a half of the picture which can be a joke or a frustrating challenge for some. And it all depends on the spawning of items, this "loot economy" which is a system still to be experimented with. It's funny, what if the items were not respawning at all? But the other half is the one the whole topic is about. Since when is the opposition, meaning these other players, not being taken into survival aspect?! They are players like you in the first place, then they prove to be fist-fighting freshies, survivors, hermits and bored teenagers, heroes, bandits, mindless KOS griefers and such. But they are all your own kind. I'm not taking into account exploiters, cheaters, etc. "What if the guy had..." examples some of you are mentioning here are nothing but wishful thinking. In reality. And what's "between the lines" is a hope that some of them read these forum posts. These are good guidelines for a better, clean and isolated gameplay experience for the new players and all of us. I get the effort you are making to encourage this kind of gameplay and try to improve it altogether and minimize frustration, you even invented some rewards. But in the long run it could be less rewarding for everyone. The good moments among many bad ones in our whole life is what we value closing to an end, right? Just reading about some of ideas here get me closer to more linear experience like some single-player games have which is just a paradox to be talking about a sandbox multi-player game. It's their own choice to kill you and miss on a huge chest of loot that only you know where it is. You know, like in the movies, the main character would never miss it :) But it is just not argumentative enough in reality of a chaotic multiplayer environment. If such an argument is possible at all there. All I'm saying is learn to accept it, there's not much to change here as it is right now. It will be less frustrating. New players will always be coming along. I don't know how everyone plays, but I think there must be more caution and more conversation from us when being approached, or spotting someone first. Make sure you are safe, find some cover, or stay in cover. Eventually being assured that someone is trustful. This long game of trust is always portrayed in books and movies with similar and war-like themes. Think about it. I can't think of a better solution for KOS that would work in Dayz as it is now. The 12 year olds are an unfortunate feature of Dayz experience. Yours and similar statements about them are too harsh :) This game is ESRB rated provisionally as Mature so it can be kind of even harder on some of them. We all know how ESRB works in reality. That's another topic. Imagine what it means for a 12yo's reality and the sudden anger and frustration when getting messed with and humiliated by some 16yo or even a group of them in a stupid computer game they got into. It's a kind of a plague since Warcraft and Minecraft from what I've heard and the results are obvious.

I wanted to add that KOS is something we can all complain of, but surely a lot of interesting stuff happens along the way, more or less rarely, or not to some of us :) or it's that thing that we just remember the bad stuff. Or mostly bad stuff. Alright, so what are these new game mechanics that are not rules or a karma system which could help prevent KOS? I'd like to hear any ideas, and right now not much plausible ones come to my mind. Not particularly asking you, just since you mentioned it I'd like to hear from anyone who has any new ideas about it. I think in the first place that this kind of kill from anyone is more in a 'better safe than sorry' way. They take what they can of your stuff, but are also safe now to continue looting through that place. Significantly less chances for revenge on them. On the opposite side, I think one feature is good idea but too harsh right now (which I believe was added relating to KOS): When blasting someone with a shotgun for example, or ratatatatat, most of his clothes, items in there and his stuff in the backpack get ruined. That should also mean unusable. It can happen when you shoot at an item on the ground directly, that works in Dayz. But how easy can some weapon rounds really get ruined? Or a backpack. For me, a backpack is ruined when it can't hold any items anymore. Loosing some or all slots could kind of simulate that. Taking off some poor guy's jacket which has a hole in the chest area should not really be a bummer. But I wanted to say that the severity of it currently artificially forces some bandits to go for a certain kind of kill like a headshot (unless they want the hat too). What we have is that they have to be sleazy backstabbers now too, but shouldn't be forced to be. They have to look for such opportunities like a clear sniping shot, or to approach someone and gain his trust to wait for the right moment. Also I'm curious if this kind of 'dirty' death is acceptable to you in a game, as opposed to pure KOS. Getting into more detail with item damage, (I'll get to the point in the end) I wonder how much these damaged clothing items should loose this 'protecting' factor. I know many things are still in the tweaking range by the devs. When damaged, I guess you could feel the 'breeze' and would suffer more of those environmental effects but you would get shot just the same with or without pristine clothing. If a clothing item is badly damaged, I think it could be interesting that you loose a slot or two of inventory space then, which would be like ripped side pocket on cargo pants. If they are ruined, I expect to see them shredded to bits but still wearable like now. Better than nothing. Relating to that, I think the spawning rate of all clothing items is too great and maybe should be reduced somewhat. But keeping the variety both of types and of course conditions of them on a server. It could be a thing that you find a proper and pristine set of warm clothes finally, and could be a reason more for any bandit to mug you. So after some time getting used to this, they could kind of watch not to mess things up there. Also, wearing heavy jackets and coats on a hot day should wear out your stamina faster if hyperthermia is not enough.

This reminds me of Fallout 1 & 2 comparison vs Fallout 3 or worse Fallout 4, with the absence of possibilities and choices and different outcomes earlier games had before, as opposed to newer games. Same with Elder Scrolls. Plenty of hours to be lost on youtube analysis about that. Shame. I loved all the games. I constantly seem to repeat myself here. I agree that the, let's call it positive experience of an encounter can be lost when KOSed. Some people just don't care. What's even harder, if you really got into character, cared about it... all your work is lost after that and now you have to start over again. No game save. But you are blessed as you can start all over. Sure, you had some emotional shock too. It depends how deep you get into it. This will toughen you up and make you more cautios. That's if you still don't want to shoot first. But some players regress to it and that's the game style they stick with since it could be somewhat easier. I also dare to compare this Dayz nuthouse to some other bad situation in real life. Interaction, teaming up, starving, looting, KOS... these are all odds and possibilities, no questions about it. But there must be, and there will always be opposition to your comfy life. And your good cause will be an opposition to the snatchers' way of doing things. Someone will want something yours and that's a fact. Or he just is feeling endangered when they see you, get paranoid. This is why I think Dayz open-style adds completely different dimension to other multiplayer games with more rules. As much as the current inescapable game development boundaries allow. It's so raw. Whenever I have doubts after being killed (afterlife thoughts :D ) I just say: "Well, he got me." Think about that Dayz description: DayZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, in which players follow a single goal: to survive in the harsh post-apocalyptic landscape as long as they can. Players can experience powerful events and emotions arising from the ever-evolving emergent gameplay. And it fits perfectly, no matter the outcome. It doesn't say KOS or no KOS, interact or don't.

I get it, and it is the way to go for people in any tough situation. But there is always someone who thinks he can profit in the situation. Or someone who has really low tolerance and just looses his mind in the group. So I must add something to some of your points. And I apologize to all for another longer post :) never meaning to lecture, just posting some thoughts and reminders which just turn into a long one. There are no consequences in a lawless god forbidden corner of some afflicted country where it doesn't seem to be any solution or hope in a foreseeable future. At least, the bandit feels that way and doesn't really think long-term that much. If he does, he is just sure of himself, that he is doing good so far and sees no end to it. We know that we are also limited in Dayz with how can we recognize a person as opposed to real life. The incentive to team up is the fact that you're not going alone through this. That's the first important thing for everyone. Assuming you are all in the same mindset. So in the same manner, nothing stops the bandits to team up also, so they can watch their backs and prey on now much easier targets. I believe it is not likely they will fight over the spoils, or similar. They are a team too. Some time ago, I managed to see this guy in Cherno, we both had guns, but he started talking first and was friendly. So we went on across pretty much the whole map. Turns out the guy was a PVP monster, not sparing anyone on our way. We still play together sometimes. Which reminds me that a lot of Dayz players play with people who they already knew beforehand, with the help of Teamspeak and Discord. Anyway, if a bandit was alone, and comes up on a group or a single well geared person, he wouldn't even attack and especially expose himself if he feels he doesn't have an upper hand. This other thing is how we perceive KOSers in the first place. There are good chances that many of the KOS we've all suffered are actually done by people who were either jumpscared, or simply had so many KOS on them before and we caught them in griefing moments. For some, this is also a chance to be a real badass and play on someone's trust only to shoot them when they're not looking. That also happens all the time, and it's probably too exciting to miss out on that :D Or just to be able to make a good ambush and shoot anyone who comes down that road. Easy loot. But I think we are all pretty much still in a learning process, some more, some less. I really can't tell what are the probabilities if someone is a friendly or a hostile. We can only rely on the perception we receive from the game, and some experience. Yesterday I was playing 0.63 exp for a bit, and while I was looting one house, I thought I caught just a glimpse of someone passing by the window going for the door. In a split second I thought "OK, if that was really someone I saw there, clearly they could've seen me in there but didn't talk at all." So I immediately pulled out the iZH rifle I've had on my back. I fired a shot the moment a figure appeared, as there was no more time for me to talk before they entered, but luckily I just missed. It turned out to be a friendly person who didn't see me in there at all, and had absolutely nothing on them. :D

That's an interesting thought :) But I couldn't say it's the virus. It's the original human nature. Or rather a nature of any living being in the ecosystem and the ultimate goal is security, and if that means domination too, fine. Because there's hunger, thirst and fear and everyone is succumbed to it. You couldn't believe what a human is capable for when surviving? Now you can have a glimpse of it. For humans, it's things like hope and the resource-securing civilized life that put a curtain on all of that. But it's still only a curtain and Dayz simply takes it down in my opinion. The complaints about other players' play style is something I feel hasn't got to do with Dayz itself. The more extreme example for this is "hey, I've been in war and people shot at me!" And these play styles are not really subject to change. I'd rather complain about what we can't do in the game or how are we doing it, compared to real life. :) In one view, there is less work for developers when creating a world open such as this, but in the other, they have to build all these mechanics instead that you didn't have in other FPS or other genre games. There are far less rules, except survival, and the easiest choice for players is to decide to survive by any means. And then you get "bandits". The others pursue some kind of hope and want to give hope to others, so we have "heroes". Some players gravitate between both, in the grey areas. Everyone is still driven by hunger, thirst and fear. So I think it's all good. :)

You don't. You should add a signature: United Gamers Global President ... or something like that

Another thing is that the setting and the timeline of the game is stuck. And combined with the base building aspect, you only have a choice to make some kinds of fortifications and improvise somewhat. The Chernarus is hell itself as it's always repeating for a player :) That world is not to evolve or rather revolve back to a civilized setting, pre-virus time. Let's say your party of friends eliminates all the infected on the server (like it could happen). You cannot rebuild. This is before that. It's the ongoing struggle for power among factions, and who will be in charge after everything is done, so that's why the focus is on combat and consequently KOS.

Good find @-Gews- some of those responses are hilarious :D But, isn't the rarity of friendly encounters exactly why it is so rewarding, for you that want interactions? :) But here's the thing. I think Dayz does it good. It's up to us what we'll do, not just "me". KOS is like some sad facts of life are. KOS in Dayz happens with any weapon or even without any, it happens anytime and anywhere, close combat or long range. I think that no one would be more friendlier with anything like removing weapons from the game, just even more frustrated. From the KOS guy's point of view, I'd say it's something like "I've eliminated a potential threat and if there's good loot to grab, great". On the other hand, the thing with "mindless attacking and killing" or any other risky action in game is because it's a game. The more realistic details you want in a game, the harder it gets to balance it. No one feels the real risk for loosing their life as they are able to respawn rather quickly, the only punishment is starting all over, with nothing, who knows where next. In the same way, what you can do to help prevent getting KOSed is very logical: Stay vigilant :D avoid the roads, keep it low, sneak around, loot at night, take cover, make sure you're not easily spotted and followed etc. Now, for me personally, it's not far off as it is currently, but I'd like to see guns somewhat rarer, or at least mostly worn and damaged. The condition of the barrel should affect the weapon's accuracy somewhat, but we don't have that in so much detail really, so should be just a condition of the whole weapon. The weapon cleaning kits would be very rare too. Pristine and unused weapons as well as ammo would be really hard to find due to all the bad things that happened in Chernarus. Logical exceptions are some military areas (not every one of them should have usable loot). And then, there are chopper crashes. All of this is already the case pretty much. More importantly, since melee is the only alternative of combat, I'm not really happy how it has been resolved so far in Dayz. It's hard to make it properly and interesting in a game, I understand that. Of course, situations like finding a friendly player who's up for a journey through the map, or persuading some unknown guy with a weapon to help you take out other hostile players are the jewels of Dayz. Again, logically this is less likely to happen. Put yourself in the Chernarus. The situation is grim. :] The problem I see with the ideas like making the weapons rarer or similar, is that the weapon could have an even bigger value among players. That means more fear for loosing the gear, more focus on it, and consequently even less interaction. That also means almost inescapable death when attacked by the infected. But I guess it's worth testing it one day. If there was a way to set the loot distribution for a particular game style when you set up your server, you could have different crowds on different servers. Possibly that could cover a wider array of particular game styles. Or even if you feel like you'd want one day to play like this, and the other day like that...