emuthreat

New renderer, new UI, new player controller, are the first things that come to mind. That same old song about not adding stuff into the game when they are just going to have to remake it for the new tech.

Vehicles are indeed persistent, Brooks and I stashed a bus in a barn, and came back to get it the next day. I'll go check on a sedan parked in the woods later tonight. They should be as persistent as the V3S was way back in .58. ^_^

Recruiting. Of course! I knew that there was an appropriate place for such a thing, I just couldn't think of where it would fit, without attracting people who would just go there to say it shouldn't be a thing...

I was thinking more along the lines of a meeting place, where people who like 1pp can come together and try to organize and populate public hive 1pp servers. Maybe a pinned topic in the server discussion section, where people who want to play on populated 1pp servers can go to see which ones are getting traffic at the time. Maybe I'll give it a try once stable hits. I would only ask that mods be diligent in not letting it turn into another argument thread. The goal is to try and facilitate a 1pp community for the people who prefer it, and to make sure people don't pop in just to say "not this again," or try to turn it into the same old argument again. Also, why has this been moved from DayZ SA General discussion, to the Mod Forums?

The idea was not another 1pp vs 3pp discussion, but rather a "we're here because we all like 1pp, here's what servers we are using right now, and what is going on in each one," type of thread. I've met more friendly people in 1pp experimental servers since .59, than I had in the entire past year. Edit: It seems odd that you would advocate for the continuation of this stalemate argument, rather than just give a little bit of space to the 1pp crowd.

Well, it was fun while it lasted. How about a pinned topic for 1pp social development? That way 1pp advocates don't always have to be trolled into oblivion by the same old stalwart haters of the minority? The 1pp experimental servers seem decently populated for the most part. Maybe this is evidence that it should be given more of a chance on the official server offerings. All we want is a free place to play. Maybe a safe place to discuss 1pp without any argument would help keep this beaten horse buried?

Dammit man, we were trying to keep this one moderate, civil, and possibly even productive, for once. :P Ease up on the extremism, we already know all-too-well that it always ends up in a stalemate. The underdog must be gentle and sly, until the hen is in-mouth.

This is exactly the issue I have found when playing with groups of three or more. There is always one person who absolutely refuses to play 1pp, so the entire group has to play on 3pp. I sure do wish Boneboys would go ahead and make a pinned topic where all of the 1pp enthusiasts could come together and try to populate servers and discuss other 1pp related things, without the topic inevitably degrading into a race-war.

We seem to be having a number of persistent misunderstandings. I am unsure if you can correctly distinguish between an official server, and a rented server; both of which share the same public hive. I agree with you on the first sentence, with the exception of calling the official servers rented; as I understand it, those servers are contractually required to be provided free to the public by the hosting companies, for the privilege of renting the servers out individually. That was exactly my point; that basically nobody plays on the official servers, so making even a majority of them 1pp would not negatively impact the 3pp players. We don't have anything even close to 50/50 at the time. Until Cold Atrophy pointed it out to me, I was of the impression that 1pp official servers did not exist. I was mistaken, but it was an easy mistake to make, as I was searching for populated 1pp servers to play on; so I ended up restricted to the private hives. I'll reiterate: What do you have to lose if a significant portion of the freely-provided, official, public hive servers were converted to 1pp? What do you have to gain from this discussion? Why are you here?

Official public hive 1pp servers? The ones provided for free by hosting companies, and have generic names? Like where you can use one 1pp character on multiple servers, and not part of a rented private hive?

As long as we are going on about how it isn't acceptable to expect people to spend extra money to Have you seen the 1pp official servers offerings on stable? I sure haven't. So, if it is not acceptable for 3pp players to be made to use rented servers, why is it okay to suggest that people need to rent their own servers to play 1pp. Am I actually not playing the game right, for just wanting to play the vanilla game, and disregard all the mods? I have very little interest in playing mods of a game conceived of a mod. I quit playing Red Alert Two when I could no longer find any regular servers. This was because most of the modded maps had overpowered features, infinite resources, and many other changes that basically defeated the purpose of the game. Do you even play on the official servers? I do, and they are all 3pp servers. I have to go find a private server for 1pp, there is currently no public hive 1pp servers available, to my knowledge. People act like it's going to ruin the whole game, if the same amount of public server offerings provided for 3pp official servers, were available for people who wanted to play 1pp. You act like 1pp advocates are somehow putting you out, by asking for a place to play the game as they wish to, without having to rent a server. Even if it is 50/50, worst case scenario is that the 3pp officail servers will be extra full. I really hope that you can see why it is so hypocritical for people who prefer 3pp to deny the option for people to have freely available public 1pp servers. You are literally trying to protect a resource that there is a significant unused surplus of on the public server offerings. There are literally dozens of empty 3pp public official servers that could be used for 1pp, with no appreciable loss to the 3pp community. Why are you fighting so hard to hang onto something that is never even used? I honestly just want to play the vanilla game on 1pp public hive servers. And I have no opportunity to do so, because the official stable servers are all 3pp. What would you lose if DayZ US Central 1-55 was set up for 1pp? If your answer is nothing, then what are you even doing here?

Good point. I fix.

Let's try to look at this in the context of a formal argument. Is DayZ a game driven primarily by player interactions? (I answer yes) Can 3pp be exploited to gain information without risk? (again, yes) Can 1pp be exploited to gain information without risk? (not that I am aware of, please specify if this is incorrect) Does having the ability to gain information without risk render some player interactions unbalanced? (yes) Should DayZ be offered to the public in its basic format in a condition that allows for unbalanced player interactions? (no) Which perspective should be primarily offered as free to the public servers and facilitated by the developers of the game? (1pp) Please let me know if and where you find any fault in my reasoning.

The debate now seems to be centered around how prominent a role each of the perspectives should have in the game. 3pp is exploitable, and unbalances player interactions, and also largely negates the difficulty of navigating urban areas filled with infected. In a game where player interaction is the main dynamic factor which drives gameplay, it seems negligent to allow a situation in which player interactions are unbalanced by the very provisions of the game. I don't think it is at all out of order to suggest that the game be primarily focused on providing servers that use the view perspective that does not both unbalance the primary challenge of the game and trivialize the secondary challenge of the game. Regardless of what people prefer, a game needs to have standards. When it is self-evident that 3pp can be exploited to gain advantage, there is really no reasonable argument against adopting 1pp as the default setting. Some people have cited medical concerns as a reason to not favor 1pp, but that is literally the only viable argument against mainstreaming 1pp that I have come across. It's not rocket science. When in the process of designing a game, if one discovers a mechanic that can be abused, it is in the best interest of the game to remove, or effectively mitigate the mechanic that can be abused. I don't understand how anyone could seriously argue in support of an online multiplayer competitive shooter including a mechanic by which people can gain intel without risking revealing their position, and then use that knowledge to ambush unsuspecting players who never even had a fair chance to spot the other players. It goes against the very nature of the game. It would be like designing a poker table with a mirror that shows one person what the other players' cards are. One could still grasp at straws trying to reconcile it as being fair; because everyone had the same chance to get there first and take the seat that allows the extra information to be collected in their own favor.

Difficulty is not the goal in advocating for 1pp to be the official public server setting. It has always been about balance and immersion; two things that are verafiably compromised when using 3pp. They have already stated that 3pp will not go away. However, a somewhat recent musing of Brian Hicks suggested that they are considering making the official servers 1pp. I agree with this idea, and have provided supporting evidence for why 1pp would be a better fit for the baseline experience. Many people are angry about this, and think that since they have become used to playing the game in a certain way, that the game should continue to cater to facilitate that niche preference. I'll bet there are still a few holdouts players who think the game was just perfect when everybody had either a Mosin or an M4, and are genuinely put-off by all the difficulty in finding a compatible weapon and ammo combination.

I'm with you on the no bragging part; it is much more of a personal satisfaction in being able to creep around the map strategically, and handle challenges and opportunities effectively. I've never ran in a group of more than a few, and not really in any clans either; though I generally regard groups and clans to be the example of the kill-or-be-killed aspect of the game. I think we actually share a pretty similar playstyle philosophy, as I do not often actively seek out PvP, and I generally circuit the map at least once a week. Even now, running around looking for buses, I get a bit bored, and possibly a headache from the monotony; especially with the black and white of a night server. But that is kinda my point. I play what I'm given in DayZ. I'd just prefer to be given more official 1pp servers on the vanilla public hive experience. The game is still in early access, and there is ample time to experiment with the ratios of official 1pp and 3pp servers; at this time, I cannot recall having seen an official public 1pp server. At the worst, the official 3pp servers will be too few, and the complaints will avalanche in, until the optimal ratio has been achieved. This might be a good way of tolerance testing the prospect of introducing 1pp as the vanilla experience. And again, I mainly advocate a preference for 1pp as the default official setting because of the perception exploit. To my surprise, this has remained an anomalously civil discussion on this topic, and it even seems somewhat productive. Edit: I left an extra space between two words...

I'm not sure what game you have been playing, but I find DayZ to be almost exclusively competitive. Player interactions have devolved into kill-or-be-killed, and PvP is the most prominent aspect of the game. It is for this reason that I lean towards preferring the vanilla official servers be 1pp; so people will learn to play the game with the most fair parameters to begin with. This should have no effect on peoples' freedom to play 3pp is they seek it out; it will just not be the first thing that new players are exposed to. The automobile analogy got a bit off track. I would consider public motorways akin to people using their PC for web browsing and flash games, and purchasing and playing "hardcore anitgames" such as DayZ would be more akin to voluntary participation in a competitive field. That being said, 3pp is not simply suitable for for serious competitive play, because of the exploits available. And as easily as that, I have cornered myself into an elitist argument, where I have all but called 3pp arcade or casual mode. Son of a bitch. Well played sir, well played.

That's a bit of a false analogy. How many competitive motor-sports do you know of, in which automatic transmissions are employed, or even allowed by the rules? I felt that I had been clear in explaining the premises founding my claim that 1pp is the more fair option, and thus should be the baseline of the vanilla official servers. This is a fun and remarkably civil discussion, given the subject matter, but I still get this nagging feeling that you are avoiding addressing the two premises behind my argument. Would you care to address that, or give reason for your unwillingness to address that?

I bought in as part of the hype too, and was initially somewhat disappointed. I stuck with it because this is the closest thing to the game that I've been wishing for since RE:DC on PS1. If you are citing a dwindling playerbase as a reason for the devs to not implement 1pp as the basic mode of the official servers, you are being a bit shortsighted; we're still miles from the actual release, with all the advertising, hype, and new player interest that will come with it. People adapt to change quite well, especially when there is nothing they can do about it. I think some experimenting is in orger to see just how much it would alienate the audience; like how the experimental servers were all 1pp the other night, but still packed brimfull. The reason I keep contributing to these discussions is not because I am a perspective Nazi, who wants to force others to enjoy what I do; it is because I have played both modes extensively and have come to the reasonable conclusion that 1pp is more immersive, and more fair. I will concede that reasonable accommodations should be made for people who can't cope with 1pp. If the player controller is never modified to allow for realistically and functionally looking out of windows, this whole thing is moot, and 3pp would have to be left as the main option so people won't be subjected to unreasonable blind spots while taking cover.

I just read the article. I was tempted to dismiss the entire thing wholesale, because of a few annoying grammar inaccuracies. (Do newspapers employ copy editors anymore?) The gist of it was that less than half of the population experienced simulation sickness to some degree. So I guess the question is whether the correct thing to do is to form the baseline experience in a manner that accommodates the lowest common denominator; to provide a significant volume of alternative servers for those with personal medical issues; or if it is the responsibility of the individuals to seek medication or treatment for their own personal conditions. The article did cite "habituation" as a therapy, so maybe encouraging the use of 1pp would have a positive effect on the ability of people to cope with simulated motion in a natural way. Personally, I am extremely nearsighted; like -7.00 out of high school, gone down to -5.5 and -6.0. I find it most reasonable for me to wear glasses and contacts, rather than insist that every piece of printed material and signage be made large enough for me to read unassisted. I also experience a degree of social anxiety, which I must cope with because it is unreasonable to ask that others change their behavior because of my personal concerns. Before you go off trying to argue that implementing 1pp as the default, and standard by which the game will be played by most players, is the same thing as forcing people to accommodate personal preferences; remember that it is a game, nay, the anti-game. DayZ should feel claustrophobic to properly suit the survival horror genre. There is also the indisputable fact that a displaced camera can be exploited to unbalance combat in PvP encounters. Those two things alone should be enough to cement the decision to make 1pp the baseline perspective used for the mainstream release. Before you make a fallacious argument to tradition, and cite how 3pp has been available in the past, and should thus continue as such, I might remind you that when stock markets were first conceived, there was little-to-no regulation; but because of rampant abuse, it became necessary to change the way that things wee done to prevent certain actors with an advantage of position or resource, from exploiting their advantage to the detriment of the system as a whole. Automobiles weren't manufactured with seat belts before the 1960's, when it became apparent that they should be implemented industry-wide. DON'T HARRISON BERGERON DAYZ!!!

Well I introduced two premises that you conveniently avoided addressing. My purpose in using those premesis was to divest this discussion from simply what I thought, and make a logical argument as to the suitability of 3pp for league play; and as an extension, the preferred choice for the basic "vanilla experience." Given the prominence of people who simply cannot play 1pp for health reasons, it follows that if 1pp was to be the default state of official servers, reasonable accommodations would have to be made to ensure there was also a good regional distribution of 3pp official servers. I'm not saying that everybody should be forced to play one way or another, but as far as competitive mainstream play goes, I see a clear preference for 1pp as being the most balanced experience. I would still be interested to hear if either of my two premises could be logically denied.

I really don't think it is going to seriously put anybody out by making the official servers 1pp. Mostly the people who will be negatively affected, would be those with conditions that make 1pp visually unbearable; and they will only have to learn a bit more about how to select 3pp servers on their first day playing. If you can acknowledge these two basic premises, it will be much easier to see that 1pp should be the "default" state of the game. Premise one: DayZ is an open-world sandbox survival game, in which player interactions primarily drive the play experience. Premise two: 3pp can be exploited to covertly detect other players, without exposing ones self to detection; thus unbalancing player interactions. If neither of my two premises can be factually denied, then it follows that 3pp is unsuitable for competitive play, and that 1pp should be the standard default perspective used. I'm not saying that 3pp should be banned, but it should definitely not be the standard used by the majority of streamers and e-sports events once the game reaches its 1.0 release. That being said, 1pp definitely needs some stance and PP adjustments, which will hopefully come along soon with the new player controller.

Maybe I'm the only one picking up on this, but here's my spin on why the FEW, OFFICIAL, servers are likely going to me made 1pp only. With the vast majority of players who prefer 3pp wall peeking, 360 noscope #yolo, using the official servers as nothing more than mostly empty stash worlds, the official servers became pretty useless for general play. When I first started playing the game, I gravitated towards the vanilla experience of the official servers because I wanted to be sure I started off learning how to play the game I bought, as it was intended to be played by the developers. I didn't even notice there was a 3pp option until I started meeting other players who ask me about what's on the other side of walls. (I tell them "IDK, how am I supposed to see through a damn wall") And thus, my 3pp cherry having been broken, I was doomed to walk the earth for months, with the likes of KOSers and "a lot" of people with medical concerns preventing them from enjoying the game as completely and comfortably as they should. Maybe, just maybe, the purpose of making the FEW OFFICIAL servers 1pp, is an effort to forcibly separate the 3pp PVP crowd from being able to use these vanilla servers as pirates' coves, in which they safely stash all of their stolen, farmed, and duped gear, so they can perform a dimensional shift and easily re-arm every time they die. Of course this still means that people who play 1pp will be able to use these vanilla servers as stash points, but with such a low population, the troubles resulting from this should be negligible. It will also be a great way to introduce lone players to the world of DayZ, before they become corrupted by peeking over walls, and never want to turn back. Just to toss this out there, I might just be getting better at the game, but it seems like since I have switched back to 1pp, I've been surviving more encounters. I've also been doing combat more legitimately, rather than running up to an outside wall, and panning my camera to direct sniper fire 'through the walls' at the defenseless target inside. I understand the whole "medical condition prevents me from using 1pp" argument, but I also know that deaf people don't usually enjoy concerts, and that flashing lights in video games can prevent some people prone to seizures from playing. I hate to get back into this contentious debate, but just because a large number of people like something a certain way, does not make it right. It is the "bandwagon fallacy." McDonalds sells a hell of a lot of hamburgers, but nobody is going to be able to convince me that they are the best food available just because a large number of people eat them. For the large part, humans are lazy, selfish, morons, and we need to constantly fight ourselves to keep from settling into bad habits. So here's my compromise: 3pp allowed to be used client side, but only with a doctor's note. lol DON'T "HARRISON BERGERON" DAYZ!!!

This is garbage! When trying to get a vehicle put together, even with a partner, it is difficult to organize all the parts; this is severely compounded by items not persisting in the world for long enough to arrange for temporary storage and transport them on foot. When I can't run back to Kabanino from Rogovo and pick up a sedan tire that I passed 40 minutes ago, because it has despawned and turned into a can of black spraypaint, I get furious with the game. This type of thing is immersion-breaking in the way that it makes you stop what you are doing and realize that a malformed game mechanic just rudely interrupted your experience. How much hope is there for these types of things getting more balanced-out as the game progresses? To phrase that question more precisely, how much flexibility is being incorporated into CLE cleanup practices regarding regions, various different item categories, and how complex are item tags? For instance, is it possible for items to "perceive" if a player has come within 5 meters of them, and then have their cleanup clock modified based on the type of item and possibly the region/terrain in which it is located or placed? It is very distracting when looting a town, and I cannot run to a barrel in the treeline to make room for an item, without knowing whether it will still be there, based on how long ago it had originally spawned.

The date on the article you linked says it was from last fall. LOL