Evaris

1. Change me? Nope. 2. Learn anything? Nope. Already knew things were dangerous. 3. Be more careful? That would be boring. 4. Turn banding? Never. Against my personal morals and sense of fun. I've had a lot of positive experiences alongside KoS experiences. Honestly, the biggest problem I had was the lie, but I have problems with anyone lying to me, in real life or online, so that's more of a personal issue.

B: No I'm not. No one is forcing someone to wear said armor: I'm arguing the OPTION should be there for players, rather than an exclusion of craftable armor being in the game. Do you see the difference? I have no problem with others not wanting to make or wear armor in game: What I have problem with, and argue against, are those who don't want it in-game since they won't use it. 2. I would like to say that I am somewhat insulted by your comment suggesting my knowledge is limited to Wikipedia; while it is truthful that my knowledge on ballistics is limited to internet sources, they far exceed that merely available on Wikipedia. Regardless, I do have some knowledge of metallurgy, and thus I will base my following argument on that. The Sn42 style armor well exceeds the thickness of middle ages plate armor - so as far as a breastplate goes, it would defend against melee weapons decently, even without heat treatment for hardening the armor. As for a cast iron stove door, how about we go into millimeter thickness of cast iron (which is really extremely high carbon steel in technicality) It's thickness alone would give it a decent amount of protection against anything which hits it. In terms of what exactly it would defend against, why don't we look at the penetration capabilities of rifle rounds? The cast iron stove door, at three fourths of an inch, comes in at 19mm of thickness. We can then compare it to the steel alloy used in AR500 plates, with a 6.5mm thickness, and known bullet resistance against all pistol rounds and rifle rounds up to a 7.62 x 51mm FMJ round. http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet.aspx?matguid=430f3a3a555247ecb13b2415de824b07&ckck=1 Now, as we do not know what particular cast iron alloy is being used in the in-game stoves, we may look at overall material properties for cast iron in general - and in some cases cast iron exceeds the parameters of the FORA 500 alloy, though it varies widely from material to material. http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=6291a24572754cae94ff365ed99b96f9 Although as we are talking a rural area, we can plausibly assume that the cast iron in question is a more simple alloy of the type - purely cast iron smelted with sand as the flux material: http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=b1984667817f4b47905d8278d406621e Which comes in right about 1/3rd as strong as the AR500 plate's strength in terms of tensile strength, which is what will allow us to actually catch the bullet. Next, we look at hardness, which determines the likelihood of a bullet outright shattering regardless: As Matweb surprisingly does not carry that information, let's look over at another website, which finds us to find that this alloy in question has a minimum hardness of 201 on the Brinell scale: http://www.iron-foundry.com/a476-ductile-iron-castings.html Now, as another comparison, we look at tank armor RHA steel: to which we know the same FMJ round can penetrate 4-6mm of at 100 meters, so we look at a comparison to A370: http://archive.org/stream/gov.law.astm.a370.1977/astm.a370.1977_djvu.txt In which we find A370 is approximately 30% stronger in yield (point where it deforms / dents) than the cast iron we are looking at, while being only half as hard. Now, granted the material properties in question, I'm fairly certain a 3/4" cast iron stove door will stop a bullet just fine. Unless you can show me otherwise why I'm wrong. For even more, if we really need it, we see for testing against 7.62x54r ammo, with a mild (i.e. as cheap as it gets, and weaker than cast iron, and not intended to stop bullets at all) steel plate, while able to penetrate the half-inch steel, it does not penetrate the 3/4th's of an inch steel - keeping in mind our cast iron stove door is also 3/4ths of an inch thick: http://youtu.be/YBxqFjYXOGw?t=4m15s Also, as for your saying a modern plate carriers - I'm well aware they are more than just a sheet of metal. My point is as follows: They both protect the same portion of the body: i.e. the chest. They have similar weight ranges: With plates inserted, a plate carrier can weigh as much as 12kg (one example is the old USA ranger body armor series vests at 11.4kg). The Sn42 style clocks in at 3.5-5kg, and a cast iron stove door weighs 8-9kg, plus the weight of the rope used to attach it to your body, so add an extra kg for good measure.

Given he liked my post I'm fairly sure this thread is done, LRS stays on the Mosin, although the addition of a rail modification to the game as a prerequisite is still something for debate, preferably in a new, more civil thread.

Regardless, allowing the mosin in game, which is the sniper variant by word of god (i.e. the devs), to use the LRS should be just fine. Though I could see the argument of requiring to find a rail attachment for the Mosin first, outright not allowing it to accept an LRS or some other hunting sight does not make sense, given it is after all, the sniper variant, and obviously is and was used as a hunting rifle.

A: They still attack you and will end up hurting you, can cut you open, or break bones. I'd get armor for those reasons alone. B: I'd say a gash, broken arm, or having your entrails being ripped out would be far more "uncomfortable." C: Depends on type of makeshift armor. The majority of these are anti-zombie, not anti-human in mind. D: Explain modern plate carriers? the Sn42 and iron stove door suggestions are the only intended bullet resistant armor here - and they're breastplates only, like modern military plate carriers. They also weigh similar, albeit at the expense of only protecting the front of the torso, and not the back. Of course if you've been reading you should have realized this by now.

Honestly, at some time in the future, after zombies are actually spawning in numbers soas to be a threat, I hope there will be PvE servers. Because honestly I prefer helping people instead of being shot by them. Hence my neutral medic playstyle. But by my experience thusfar is mine is an unpopular stance.

See the main problem with this is many heavy marksman rifles and DMRs use 7.62x51mm rounds, so... yeah.

A: I'd prefer a bit of armor instead of purely relying on my dancing skills in combat any day, thanks. 1. And dare we forget how many people died from heatstroke as a result? 2. I'd still take it. It slows me down but has a chance of saving my life? Any help is better than none. I, personally, see the zombies as being more of a threat in the future, not other players. So pull your mind away from PvP, and think about the effectiveness of some of this in PvE when we're facing 5-10x the number of zombies on a regular basis, with massive hoards being a thing when you make too much noise. Do you still want to rely entirely on your mobility? Because I sure don't. I want to find or make some armor to help me survive. B: Yeah, it's a game. So why are you so opposed to different playstyles to your own? Or people wanting to do things you find impractical?

1. Well just because we run like we do -now- doesn't mean that we will be forced to in the future, once farming and the like are in. Also, wouldn't it be better to give a player the option to make the armor and be slown down? 2. Yes, most rifle rounds will go through a SN-42 style armor plate. Hence the suggestion for the cast iron stove door - far more effective at stopping a round, but heavier with less coverage area. At the same time, easier to make. Said cast iron door should stop well... everything until we get .50cal class weapons or 7.62 long AP type rounds. Regardless, the protection the Sn-42 style and the other armors on this list would provide vs melee would be highly beneficial once zombies are added in in far greater numbers. 3. The reason that custom armors aren't seen in those areas of the world are: A: Because it's too hot for most sane people to wear such things without having an air conditioned base to go back to. B: Because rifles are such a common threat in these areas and pistol rounds are pretty much nowhere to be found on their battlefields, what would they gain?

1. A plate carrier and plate can weigh up to 10kg, in modern army service. So an improvised 3.5kg or 8-9kg piece of armor isn't out there by body armor standards. 2. Yeah on the dents.... First thing, hammers caused a much, MUCH larger dent in platemail than is seen being caused by those bullets. And usually it took multiple repeated strikes denting the armor before an armored knight would be knocked out or killed, unless such strikes were to the head, or caused a rib to puncture the lungs / heart. It wasn't that uncommon for a knight to lose use of his limbs before being killed on the battlefield in combat with hammer. History suggests otherwise, as does modern combat armor. Hard steel plate armor has been proven to work many times, and the SN42 armor was PROVEN in WWII to make an operator capable of withstanding multiple impacts from a 9mm MP40 submachine gun. It did not have any backing save for the normal soviet uniform. Yes, the sheer force can kill you, if the mass of your armor is not sufficient to slow the force of a bullet at a rate at which the human body can withstand. Yes, impacts strong enough to dent the armor can break bone. But these are not usually lethal threats. as the body armor itself spreads out the force being applied on your body by the contact area of the reverse side of the body armor. As for why we don't see people using it in real combat, well most of this armor was outdated by cheaply available carrier plates in modern times. But steel bib type armor like the SN42 were used by several gangsters to great effect, and by urban combat teams by the soviets, as two notible examples. Nowadays, we have plate carriers with various levels of protection, one of which are the AR500 plates shown above, a level III ballistic plate available for about $100 and are quite popular among private security forces and preppers. The SN42 and similar body armor did not see use with standard infantry as they were bulky, limited the carried storage space of an individual soldier, and the extra weight made it ill suited for conventional field army movement. Hence why they were popular in urban assault squads, armored vehicle operators, and stationary defensive units. Generally speaking, "steel bib" armor worked for the pistol rounds they were designed to defeat. Simple point: you do not need to completely absorb the impact of a bullet when stopping it, merely spread the force over a wide enough area to reduce damage to a degree in which it is survivable. This does not of course mean impacts wouldn't have potential to cause injury - merely that the injuries are far, far more likely to be non life threatening As such I would suggest doing some more research. Funfact: The kinetic energy behind the common pistol rounds 9mm and .45 ACP is similar to that of a punch by a trained martial artist. So yeah think about the force behind that, now spread across the rear face of whatever armor you're wearing. (a couple dozen times the surface area.) Still think that would be lethal?

Not really as effective for the weight, since most military ceramic armors utilize composite construction and stronger ceramics than are found in bathroom tiles. Aside from this, cermaic has the issue of low durability to multiple impacts, and degrades quickly.

first one, we have WWI german soldiers, and WWII german, american, and russian soliders all wearing similar suits, and prohibition era american gangsters as a basis for it's handgun resistance. For the latter. let's look at it this way. it's a 3/4" thick cast iron plate. cast iron is about 1/2 as strong as steel, (so we get an effective strength of 3/8th's of an inch, 50% more than 1/4th inch) and rubber coated 1/4" steel plates do this:

If I may ask, why do you feel making bullet proof / bullet resistant armor should be out of the question?

Well for something more world-wide-guaranteed, there's always motorcycle armor with kevlar jeans: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/41986/i/leatt-body-protector-adventure?colorid=9&sizeid=111&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=Cj0KEQjwur2eBRDtvMS0gIuS-dYBEiQANBPMR1xsNpWEZ65cSL-GT6LCVNix7IhYEVh4wfOJz99ChL8aAgM08P8HAQ http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/dainese-d1-kevlar-armor-ready-jeans

1. The AR-15 is semi-automatic, not a fully automatic rifle. In general a lever action can fire as fast, although not prone, and you have to remember semi-auto technology is more than 100 years old, so... yeah. It's not exactly out there, it's pretty much just a convenience / comfort thing over bolt / lever action rifles. Also, you can get bolt-action AR-15's. 2. Fully automatic guns are illegal for civilians in the USA unless you have a firearms licence to manufacture them (when you're a manufacturer) or if you have a firearms licence for collecting historical firearms, in which case the only legal guns are those manufactured pre-1980's. Given the depth of the background checks, and the cost of just applying, and the fact you have to re-apply every couple years... yeah. 3. It's because of the fact that the media portrays such as making a gun more dangerous in comparison to "grandpaw's ol' wooden hunting rifle", despite "granpa's" rifle was also quite possibly semi-auto, but instead chambered in a more powerful long 7.62 class cartridge. Just media pushing anti-gun stances based on fear and propaganda instead of logic, since it's easier to ban something which looks like a modern military weapon, rather than something that looks like a WWII military weapon. Go figure. Oh and there are those who say that guns designed for military use have no places in civilian hands, yet don't mind carrying around a Mosin or M1A. Just a lot of misinformation going around the USA. 4. Would you be opposed to a rail kit being added to the game, which would be needed to be added to a weapon as a mod before an LRS can be attached to a mosin?

at the same time you gain drastically increased defense vs zombies for most of these. On another note, the SN-42 based armor should be fine for multiple impacts as well, as should scale armor. pretty much the whole point are either interim solutions until you find regular ballistic vests / plate carriers + plates, or as specific anti-zombie armor for when we're dealing with hoards.

which removes any fear of imbalance or removing loot progression.

I'ma guess it's a M1A and not an M14, seeing how hard it is to get the latter.

Better than the bullet tearing through said organs I would think. Which is really the whole point to body armor - you can be knocked out by the projectiles with repeated hits or a large enough one, and you might break ribs if you're unlucky. but at least you're a bit more likely to be able to return fire and/or come out of the situation alive. Also to keep in mind, the more mass to the armor, the slower force is applied to your body, and thus the less severe damage you'll take internally.

1. Kinda the point to the larger rounds, as they tend to kill the animal via shock and immense internal bleeding in seconds instead of watching the animal bleed out in pain for several minutes (if not hours, depending on animal and round in question.) 2. Well at least you're complaining about the power of a round and it's killing potential, and not the illogical anti-gun groups here in the states which try to ban AR-15's based solely on that they have pistol grips and modular components like rail guards and collapsible stocks. While you have M1A's firing 7.62 NATO just as fast as an AR-15 fires, and pistols kill 10x the number of people that rifles do. 3. Black bears are considered the high end of use for this round category.

Research done, have an image of a 3.5kg example of what I suggest be able to be made which would provide protection of everything up to a .45 ACP round: And the cast iron door.. well here's the general idea, a la back to the future. (estimated, 8-9kg.) Also, it's up to the devs, not you or I, so you can't say with any certainty it can't happen, now can you?

1. In self defense, not a good cartridge. No sane person is going to use them for this purpose since they penetrate so well. 2. Against large game, actually it's quite a good option and has been used for over 100 years as a hunting cartridge. The 7.62x51mm NATO round and the 7.62x54mmR are quite similar to .30-06 Springfield and .308 Winchester hunting cartridges. The main thing they're good at is putting down deer and the like with a single shot to the torso - meaning it's a faster (and thus arguably more merciful) kill to the hunted animal in question. To boot, most of the rounds of this category are exceptionally accurate, meaning they can be used to hunt game at long distances. Generally speaking, long 7.62mm class rounds are what are suggested to hunt "medium" category game (CXP2) - In which goats, deer, elk, antelope, and black bears are all a part of, ranging from the low to the high area of the spectrum. If humans were considered "Game", we'd be on that list - hence why this category of rounds have historically been the most popular category for anti-personnel sniper rifles.

1. Why not, just because the survivors are immune does not keep the zombies from attacking them. Once zombies come in larger numbers, the threat they pose, and thus the effectiveness of armor, increases. And there are some armors on the list of the OP which would be effective against bullets, as a point of note in the next section. 2. Umm no, actually it's not hard to construct armor effective against bullets. Again the cast iron door, and the steel armor I discussed in the first thread would be effective against most all pistol threats, and .22LR rifles. Scale mail taken from a car door would also be effective against lighter pistol rounds. (.22 LR, .380 ACP) and likely reduce internal trauma from medium pistol rounds. (9mm, .45 ACP) In fact the cast iron stove door might also shrug off light rifle rounds. (.357 magnum, 5.56) 3. How does armor not add anything to the gameplay? Please explain. I have to say, that -would- be fun to do in a zombie apocalypse. Just I'd also bring a rifle, an AR-15 or AK. For the simple fact of being an armored knight with a well... you get the idea. All the lulz that would be had.