pilgrim*

This thread is not about 1pp DayZ : You list all the situations you want to block the camera at the character's head, to make the 3pp game the same the 1pp game - that is really not a smart proposal. The 3pp DayZ game can be made better by using the camera MORE, (not less) I mean it will become more of a game that you would like if you played it. Hey - The 3pp DayZ players are the only reason DayZ SA still exists. Without 3pp DayZ there would not be a forum, and no servers - probably not even any (empty) 1pp whitelisted servers (the 1pps are just about empty since the start) You should check this out on the 1pp DayZ Thread, and talk to the other 1pp players over there. * Your point of view is that the million people who chose 3pp Dayz have joined the game because it is easy, and those big masses of players don't want it changed, so the Devs cant change anything. If the Devs try they will piss off all the 3pp players. I think that's what you are saying about 3pp? I don't agree at all Bludy - I'm sure it is REALLY worth the Devs time to look at the 3pp DayZ game because totally everyone plays it (except a tiny handful). The devs can make the gameplay much better (not only animations and items and weapons) - also the stuff we are talking about on this Thread here - And it will be a lot of FUN to test those gameplay ideas on Experimental. The big focus is right on 3pp DayZ , because the players come to BI and Steam for 3pp DayZ, and the game development is based on it.. 3pp DayZ is what decides the future of DayZ SA. If we are going to play 3pp let's make it really worth playing. DayZ is a good game. So let's get to it! xxp

nice - So you and your mates knock someone unconscious and sit around laughing every time you wake him up (make sure you do it do it before his respawn timer runs out) then knock him out again - So he gets to watch a black screen for as long as YOU feel like - maybe an hour or three - for exactly as long you want to grief him. He gets a couple of hours of black screen -in chunks that won't let him log out - plus every 5 mins he's revived by your gang and knocked out again - so he doesn't get to play the game that day. You could call in your friends to keep him for longer, - take shifts.. see if you can keep him for a day or so.. ATM if he logs out unconscious he dies - Add the respawn timer and now you can work on him every 5 mins to stop him from logging out.at all. Then how does the dude leave the game? He's bored or (even) pissed because your gang has been griefing him for a couple of hours and it looks like you might go on doing that all night. What is to stop you? So what does he do? Does he have to pull the plug on the game to turn it off? And if he does that without waiting for the respawn timer (so you can't revive him and knock him out again before the timer runs out) does he die? Or is he still alive and unconscious so he re-spawns right back with your gang again? I guess he has to wait till he's sure you logged out, or else he'll land back unconscious in the same place and you'll be there to start griefing him again. Hmmm.. I know you wouldn't act that way, only BAD players would do that. - guys, it's maybe a great "idea", but it won't work and you've got to think of something else.. you see what BAD players could do with it..

YES - I guess the bottom line "Basic Problem" here is that DayZ is a famous 3pp game with millions (?) of players. DayZ 1pp is a lot less well- known minority game. SO Taking 3pp out of DayZ would be like taking the <Fun> out of GTA and expecting most players to stay with it. IMO they wont ! For better or worse DayZ is a 3pp game as far as 99+% of the players are concerned. Always will be. I am not saying this is a good or bad thing at all, it is simply a statistic . That is how it happened, read the numbers. In fact (paradox) most of the people who argue about making 3pp more realistic are the minority who enjoy 1pp. I have a strong impression most all 3pp players don't give a D*** if they can peek round corners, over cover, or off roofs or not. [edit: GEWS touched on the same point above, while I was writing this] SO given that DayZ 3pp is THE GAME everyone plays every night (except a few hundred players?) I think it would be worthwhile for the Devs to look into these FEW gameplay problems, and move the 3pp popular DayZ game a little more towards "realism" without freaking out all those masses of popular players - Camera viewpoints is one accessible way to do this that seems relatively cheap and efficient. And it is definitely "easy " to experiment with. This is why I plug this suggestion (it's my angle).. And YES DayZ is a great game. Can you add a reference to the Arma 3 Video so other people on the topic can check it out; please. ?? thanx xxP

Yes - "the camera just needs" - is a reference to part of only one of my three initial suggestions. It won't work alone, as I explained in that text, and a moment's thought will make this obvious. Your conception (as you state it) won't work at all as useful gameplay - in my view (with respect). There are several parameters that must interact - for instance the direction you are facing when you are "close" to cover is very important. If you are leaning directly against a wall and looking down the length of the wall - the camera must NOT "close in to perch up on your shoulder"; It should not do that ( AND must not) as this would destroy the gameplay and I BELEIVE it will not prevent corner peeking. this is why my first proposals hav to be read carefully. (or ..what the hell, I'm not forcing anyone to read anything..) I thought the OP was interesting. I won't go through the explanation again right now. Anyone capable of - for instance - modding or (let's leave aside players familiar with game design) anyone who can draw 3d designs freehand on paper, and many other folk, will not find these ideas difficult at all. Staircases: The multiple axis and the constraints involved in the dynamic movement of a 3p camera following a player through the tight turns of a confined indoor staircase and doorways- illustrates a range of existing camera capabilities. I mentioned this to make the situation clear to you. Being blocked by a tree (as I noted way back, is the same simplistic camera action as you observe when driving through bushes). It is not a good example of how the camera works.. really, try the staircase and Notice HOW the camera viewpoint changes, as well as it's distance, angle, tracking speed, etc.. Players very often do not notice this key dynamic of the gameplay at all, in such a complex situation. So watcing what the 3p camera does in that situation is a good lead in to it's operation. * The point of this topic (in my view) is - really - to propose solutions that do not turn the massively popular 3pp Dayz into a 1pp imitation, and to deal with the most obvious recurring beefs of 3pp players, with the intention of make 3pp play better. I proposed initial solutions to all the points raised except the 3p camera firing from the hip on screen target-indication mentioned by BeefBacon. BUT Most importantly - for ME - I'm looking to find errors in my OWN logic, to see if my proposed system is operable - and I was hoping someone would be interested enough to point out things I've not considered, that would/could mess up my suggestions. These are simple first suggestions.. I was hoping for criticism. xxPILGRIM

I agree: So what do you suggest ebrim ?

Camera dynamic adjustment takes place all the time in all games. In DayZ it takes place right now in 3p camera all the time. You have to understand this simple fact. PROOF - In 3p view - run up and down a couple of flights of stairs and landings - you will not see the camera clip outside the building wall - why? - because it adjusts to the building - AND it does not stay at an exact elevation OR constant distance behind the player, and it does NOT move and change direction at constant speed.. - it reacts to your position and the position of objects (all the time). This is already in the game. there is no new "map overlay" that needs placing, no addition or changes of any kind to object properties. There IS camera movement (including changing distance from the player) AND camera timing.. both together make the FEELING of the game, if you notice it or not. There is simply some more extra thought needed - and some minor-but-important positional improvement, a slightly more complex dynamic, to be added to what is already there... I explained the 3 camera parameters that alter as the player moves, now, in the game (i mean the relationship of the camera to the player CHANGES right now, in game.. check it out - Notice how it works.) - I explained that there are deliberate delays in the movements and changes in acceleration depending on the camera location (not only on the player's own speed and movement) so that the camera does not jerk or jump. These are already in place. Happens all the time and players hardly notice. Problem for this Topic is, if they don't really notice it they really can't talk about it.. You have to think in terms of the camera as an object with parameters - it has it's own life in the game - its relationship to the player changes dynamically - it alters its relationship with the player now (today) in the game, and can go on doing exactly that with slight definite improvements. End result = much less peeking, zero "claustrophobia", much better game - for the 99% of players (at least) who ALWAYS play 3pp.. I'm realizing that this is - unfortunately - too strongly a technical discussion for many people to be interested at all - or to follow the fairly easy logic of HOW camera manipulations can change the game INVISIBLY, NOTICEABLY for the player, so he is hardly consciously aware that gamepay has improved - (until he finally notices its more fun).. I tried to explain my simple starter ideas, simply.. but there are not many takers ready to think about how the gamaplay WORKS, I think.. It is the mechanics of how a game works (first) that give you the feeling of playing, not the other way around. I assumed this topic would be easy to understand, also I underestimated how little 3pp players care. I would like one or two people to pick up on this idea of camera movement related to the player - exactly what already takes place in the game (so zero big change) - and one or two people to realize that with some pooled ideas - and not too much thought - this 3pp could be improved to make a considerably better game experience for EVERYONE .. Then I'll be cheerful again. At the moment - .(after 2 or 3 pages of explanation I read comment like the last above, and ) .. what the hell... P

you chain your bike up and go off and die and what happens ? - somebody steals your wheels, obviously. * * * explanation: I hope you checked you were over 18 before you read that. xxP

chainmail ?

I'd chain up my bike, for a start - really, what planet do you people come from? : )

I admit I don't like the occlusion idea at all.. it's like a mod fix to a problem that leaves the problem still in the game - As it stands the 3p camera can move in certain ways- so players will move it however they can. With occlusion either the "hidden" player is invisible - or "what you are not supposed to see" is invisible; If you blank out areas you "should not see" then moving the camera will sometimes show black areas (pretty often, right!!) .. I think this will be difficult for players to understand, and will interfere with their game, and it is really strongly visible on screen and it will look like your graphics card is burning out. But (occlusion- the other method) if only the "invisible player" is not seen, then you will think there is REALLY no one there because you SEE there is no one there. This will drive standard players (most players) crazy. They will not put up with it. Your brain tells you there is NO ONE behind that car, then the guy steps out from 3 feet away and sprays you - that's worse than hackers. A lot of players will go nuts. They want 3p but it has to seem "natural" to them., not immersion breaking. SO: A 100% better solution is to make the 3p camera move in a better way.. You must know that 3p camera movement in different games can be really quite complicated, but without the player much noticing at all. In DayZ - in 3p view - the camera movement is not very sophisticated in a number of ways. (no insult intended Devs) One obvious example: In 3p camera you can stand your character in front of a tree, and all the 3p camera shows is the back of the tree - you can't see your own character at all, just the damned tree. OK - you must admit that compared to many other games, that is truly NOT advanced high-tech immersive camera work. No one is winning prizes for that 3p camera ATM. I know it is acceptable and has some good moves programmed in as it stands - but there is room for a real and definite improvement (admit it). A LOT of games (nearly ALL games) manage to avoid that kind "wrong side of a tree" stuff by some thoughtful programming of 3p camera position,(its location as a mobile object) and direction of view,and camera distance (from the player) .. All these three parameters can be varied dynamically (all the time, or at any special time, singly or together, and with regulated speed and acceleration)) according to different circumstances, and all of us have seen it happen in dozens of games. When it happens naturally and smoothly you don't notice it much. It does not break immersion at all when it is done well. Seeing (occlusion) players jump up on your screen when you move, or guys pop into existence from nothing, shoot you and vanish again - ..exist/not exist/exist/not exist/..having to understand why that suddenly happened, specially if there are several players around - will make you crazy even if you only want a nice simple bang-bang game of PvP - that has got to break immersion and be "confusing" (to be polite). I can't think of one game that has used this solution. I'd much rather go for ways to get the 3p camera to move and react better, so players can still use it but not get such obvious unfair advantages from it..That will be more fun for them; ps - you speak of "tagging the ground" EmuThreat - but you don't need to. Every in-game object already has a hit box so it is already tagged - if you are facing towards an object and you are close enough , then the camera acts differently than when you are at a greater distance from that object, even if you are still facing it. Read what I suggested above, about running up to a wall from a distance, until you have your character's face right up against the wall..(or the car, or the tree). A programmed 3p camera action can deal with this to make peeking much more difficult. Hey - I agree with BeefBacon on development (and also with some of EmuThreat on occlusion)- I never said it would be easy. I'm SURE there are problems that will come up I haven't thought of. And situations when people will use the different new camera movements to gain advantages. I haven't worked out those, maybe I'm on a total looser. But the experimental servers are there to do EXACTLY that kind of stuff, and IF the Devs are interested and put time into it, I BELIEVE some interesting better 3p camera movements could be tried out. So 3p gameplay could definitely get better for everyone - and stay as immersive or more immersive (best of both worlds). AND if it was good, even the hardcore 3pp PvP players would like it.. So it comes down to how far are the Devs prepared or able to go in this. I think camera movement is the key (but not just one simple change. a rework). I THINK that can be done without rebuilding the game or rewriting the map, using the existing properties and modifying how the camera reacts to them. I'm only thinking of getting rid of the one or two obvious things that are bad about 3p camera.. some work has already been done and folk seem pleased about it.. Any software work requires time - but I think a lot of players would be really happy to mess with any experiments that turned up on experimental. So it depends where the devs want to take it.

Yep - good correction Woody2. I used to play on a private server that was often open to the public - and it was 1pp .. so I completely forgot about 1pp/3pp having separate hives on the public servers. It is important for a new player to know that. = My bad. Check what it says on the server list before you log in _Broadside_. It tells you public or private AND it tells you 1pp or 3pp. so if _Broadside_ is right about what happened, he'll find his public character all geared up waiting for hm next time he logs in to a 3pp public server. * [edit:] Nearly all players go for 3pp .. but some dudes are crazy about 1pp - and I think (for me) 1pp can be REALLY exciting, so sooner or later try them both out to compare.

Camera movement is a whole subject in itself, in every game - there is a lot of clever stuff and different solutions are used. Mainly, players don't notice because it "looks" natural to them, but the way the camera alters view-direction and tracks in a game is very important. Eg In a flying game like 'Tame your Dragon' if you are racing between obstacles, swerving, the 3p camera must never look at an obstacle when you are on the other side of it, because then you would not know how to steer (not good in an obstacle race). But the change in camera position and direction of view is done so it seems natural and players don't notice how cunning it is. They just play. ( I mention that one game because I had to explain the discussions between two different language groups involved in it, camera was a difficult problem, and because the result was really good - the testers spent a long time trying to find movements that would trick the camera into being in the wrong place or wrong distance at the wrong time, but they couldn't.) So don't give up hope. If it works really well you won't be aware it is in the game. That's the sad tragic life of a programmer - you spend all those hours and days to do something that is SO GOOD that the player's don't even notice it. [edit] Possible Example - if you are on a surface designated as "flat roof" then the 3pp camera is not allowed to rise more than a few inches above your head-level unless you are crouching or standing. So if you are lying flat you can't peek down in 3p at players on the ground beneath you. When you want to look downwards towards the lower ground you have to either crouch or stand. OK - this is only one idea, and only about roofs, not windows or other possible situations.. but it could deal with one common misuse of 3p camera - it is more realistic, and makes it much more likely that if you can see down from the roof, the player you are looking at can look up and see you. [And hey - this could work when you were lying down anywhere, close to the edge of rocks or on the ground on a hill, or anywhere - if the 3p camera cant hardly move upwards you cant use it to look downwards much (that is realistic) but you can still move the camera enough to see stuff on the ground in front of your face, or to look around horizontally everywhere in front of you. Second Poss: When you move your 3p view slightly, as in peeking (not using the look-left look-right buttons) the effect is like turning your head OK? Really you turn your body slightly, but the effect is to be able to see a different area of the screen. Players can misuse that movement to turn the 3p viewpoint so you can peek - eg round a tree or round a corner - OK? SO: When you are inside 2 meters distance of an object "in front" of you (I mean a hit box located say inside a 30° angle in front of you and less than a meter or so distant) then when you move your mouse too far change your view angle left or right, you ALSO lean left or right.. This would help the peeking problem.. you would have to stand further off the wall (or tree or whatever) to be safe peeking without leaning out.. and also if you were lying flat and tried to peek, if you moved the camera too far you would do a roll in that direction (so you'd want to be really careful trying to peek too much, right?). But if you turned away from the objct, say at 90° from it, or turned your back on it, then you would not lean.. so if you tried to peek round a tree or corner you would lean if you were close enough to that object, but if you turned to see something in some other direction, you wouldnt lean because the object wouldn't be "in front" of you...You need a short delay on the camer action for this, so if you turn your body to peek, and stay like that for half a second (or less) you lean, but if you just turn away from the corner to look in some other direction, the "lean" effect doesn't kick in, so for instance you can turn around and run off, or run down the length of the wall as long as you are not facing it, without that automatic leaning.. These things would make players a lot more cautious about peeking, and decrease the advantage of it.. because you'd have to stand definitely further back from the wall corner, or the truck or whatever object, to peek "safely" without risk of being seen leaning out.; and having to be further away from the wall to try "peeking" would put you in a more exposed position from all directions. I've got a Third Poss (goes with the second) .. "variable 3p camera distance" depending on your facing distance from an object (hit box). So if you have your nose against a tree, the 3p camera is real close just behind/above your head, but if you are out facing a "normal" open space, the camera moves back to "normal" 3p view.. it has to move between these two limits fluidly and "quite" slowly, so you don't see camera jump.. If you run up to a wall til you are face in the wall, the camera will "slowly" close in.. meaning in a short second but not instantly.. And if you run through a forest there is enough delay so the camera will will not jump around all the time. Only if you stop for a moment it will have time to start adjust distance smoothly. Combine this "variable camera distance" with the "when you peek you lean" idea - something good might come of it. It would make corner-peekers think twice, and worry more.. IMO As I said above - these are suggestions, not any perfect solution, and maybe I got my ideas wrong and missed something really important (that might easily be true)... I'm suggesting, this is not expert advice, ok? xxP

I guess you noticed there are "public" and "private" servers - it tells you which they are in the list of servers. 1 ) PUBLIC If you are playing on a public server - you character and gear are saved to the 'public hive' (the Bohemia database). There is just one public hive worldwide run by Bohemia for all the public servers. So on every public server you have the same character and gear - when you log in to another public server you will have the same character in the same place. Occasionally this doesn't happen right (it is the server's problem, not Bohemia's fault) - so you log in to a different public server and because of this server error you are a freshspawn. This hasn't happened to me for quite a while, but it has happened in the past. If that happens DO NOT PLAY - don't even log out the normal way - instead, use Windows to shut down DayZ STRAIGHT AWAY, shut it down completely then start up the game up again. Then log in to some other public server and see if you still have your old character (you should). This is the way I do it and it has worked for me (it dosn't happen often). I think this freshspawn thing happens because a few servers just have bad connections to the public hive sometimes. There used to be one or two public severs where you seemed to nearly always start off as freshspawn; Maybe that was something about how they were set up, but since persistence came in, I haven't heard any complaints since. But BE WARNED !! - if you PLAY even a little while as a freshspawn on the public server, your character will be saved as a freshspawn, and then you are Doomed, your character will be like that afterwards on every public server you log in. So get out as fast as you can, don't even touch anything or walk around. 2 ) LOGGING OUT One other thing to always REMEMBER - when you log out of any game - your character stays in the game for a little while after you have left.. This is to stop some exploits that players were pulling (like combat-logging). So while your character is still in the game - but you have logged out back to the intro screen - someone can walk up to your character and shoot him or loot him, or both.. Then when you log back in you are dead (heh) you are a freshspawn. So choose a good place to log out, hide somewhere, or find some quiet place there will be no zombies close by when you log in again - and don't ever try to log out where someone sees you, and never in the middle of a fight.. your character will still be standing there getting hit after you have left the game. I think it stays in the game for 30 seconds (?) after you log out. 3 ) PRIVATE ALSO - if you play on a private server - sometimes you can do that because some (a few) private severs are open to all players and are not "members only", or they have an "open day" . Usually you must join a clan or gaming group to play on their private server. When you play on "private" your character is saved to the server's own private hive, not to the worldwide public hive. So that character only exists on that one private server. OK? Then if you log in to a public server you will not have the same character (you'll be a normal freshspawn, or you'll still be the character you were last time you played on any public server, with any gear you got on a public server) but if you go back to the same private sever your old private character will still be there. Some folk play one character on a private server and one on a public server. They are separate characters, You can build a character on public servers, and use it on any public server, and also have a different character on any private server you can log in to - but that private character is only saved on that one private sever. Mainly you can only log in to a private server if you have joined the private group - like join up on their website for instance.. * * * So as a beginner IMO - play public servers until you know your way around the game (there are a lot of them)- unless you have a friend who wants you to join a private server, or you really like the look of one private group, but remember your geared-up character on that private sever cant play on any other server (public or private) . But if you play "public" then you keep that same character and gear on all of the public servers. xxP

no one is talking about 1pp, that is not the topic. Please don't. The OP wants to talk about the 3pp DayZ that 95+% of DayZ gamers play as the normal DayZ game. So what 3pp elements do you find cause problems in 3pp Gameplay BeefBacon ? Things in 3pp DayZ that might make 3pp DayZ more interesting? OK - you say "3pp may well be perpetuating the hip fire crosshair that is currently in-game, and that has no business existing in a hardcore survival game" 1 ) So the crosshair could be taken out ? 2 ) The wall peeking thing is the main issue (that is my opinion too) Wall peeking has been modified but it still exists (anyone think it's better now?) Corner peeking is still the way it was. And what about rooftop peeking ? - when you lie flat on a roof and watch players down underneath you - that's like corner peeking except vertical. Now we have: - "peeking over walls" - "peeking round corners" - "hip firing with a crosshair" - "being able to switch views to first person in the 3pp game" (comment from OP) Anything else ?

Let's NOT do the 1pp v 3pp argument - that has been done ten times and it always gets out of order. 1pp and 3pp both have weaknesses. They are like two different games. People violently take one side or the other and get crazy and then the thread is shut down . so no one mention 1pp. OK? On this thread we can Pretend there is a 3pp game called 3pp DayZ and we are talking about that and not anything else. A lot of folk play this game 3pp DayZ and already enjoy it, and maybe like Kohlbar they want it to be better. So : This thread is ONLY about 3pp and ways to make 3pp a better game. I have some ideas (a bit technical) - about how camera movement can be modified in 3pp - not taken away, just modified .. I'll tell ya later. So far people have only mentioned "peeking over walls" and "peeking round corners" as being negative - is there anything else in 3pp that causes a lot of grief in a 3pp Game ? Anyone got any to add ? xxP

Hi - I just meant that REAL paper maps never have a marker that follows you around. So when you say you "have to find a good server so I can use the map" you are wrong there. You can use a map anywhere - use them the way maps are made to be used, like everyone uses them in real life. I didn't even know there are servers that still mark your position, I thought that had all gone YEARS ago. So use the map for what a Real Map is made for. You can do that on any server - screw the "yellow dots" , those are for the WEAK.. (so let's agree to get rid of them on all servers, OK?) Take them away. !! * BUT ( 5 ) YES - you are completely RIGHT unfriendlydutchman - Good Idea - You should be able to write on your map with a pen the same way as you write on a piece of paper. That would be GOOD as long as it was writing on one copy of the rmap - only the one you write on - BeanZ for that! ATM the maps aren't real 'instances'.. the folded up map in your pocket IS an instance (a single loot object in your pocket) but the unfolded map on your screen is not, it is one general 'screen' map for everyone - so what you see when you look at it, is not a unique instance.. Still, with some Dev thought that could be dealt with without making loads of different instances of the same screen map? (Hey BI ?) - Maybe by using an overlay connected to your personal folded map instance, and NOT connected to "you" so that you (or anyone) can see what you marked with a pen on the general unfolded map only when you use that one single folded map loot object that you have ? (just an idea ? there must be a way to change that without driving the Devs crazy) Either way - I agree that to be able to write info on one single map that you keep in your gear, and if you lose that map you loose the markings - would be seriously great. That is one GOOD idea. [edit] Need a way to rub out the markings too, so players don't just write a mess all over maps and leave them around for fun. xxP

These are not dumb questions _Broadside_ , everyone has to learn this stuff - look around the thread for more info and good ideas and guides - and youtube for "how to" DayZ stuff 1 - When you do see a zombie it will scare the s*** out of you the first time.. carry some torn up rags to use as bandages or you'll bleed to death afterwards - tear rags using a knife on a shirt or tshirt (a stone knife is easy to make) - always have 4 or 6 rags or a couple of bandages.. it's the first thing you need (then water, then food and some hand weapon to defend yourself - a splitting axe is good, and a knife - find out how to make a stone knife you can open cans and cut sticks with it too) With rags and a stick you can make a splint. zombies will sometimes break your leg, and nearly always also damage your clothes and gear, so keep the rags in different pockets so they aren't all ruined at once in a zombie attack. There aren't many zombs ATM, but you'll notice them for sure when they turn up. You learn to deal with them.. 2 - Put the map in your hotbar, then use it from there with the hotbar key (unless there's a glitch I dont know about) 3 -The way the map and features are generated and then enter-able buildings added is weird if you are not a programmer used to the ideas behind it (but don't worry about it..unless you're a scripting nerd) .. And when new buildings are added to the the map they have to be checked and "leveled" exactly with the ground (by hand ) - When the bug tracker is working you can put in a report about that house - but someone will get round to correcting it it in a minor update one day soon, you'll see.. (there is one house with a tree in the living room, seen that yet?). there are not many buildings you can't find any way in, try another door. There are also some loading bays (that are off the ground) where you need to back a truck up to the doorway (for instance) to get in. That's deliberate. 4 - sprinting uses more energy - I think it's cool to jog everywhere.. longer time to get there but less energy and more interesting (but sometimes i sprint, and some players sprint all the time). Jogging is better IMO and you get into less trouble. 5 - Heli crashes have high level loot - but like the mil places a lot of folk look for them, there is no "easy" way to get military gear - car-boots and specially police cars can have some good stuff in them - but instead (my advice) you can find a Winchester and.308 ammo, and a hunting scope, or a Blaze rifle (those two are good weapons) and a Red9 pistol and 9mm ammo.. or a revolver.. nearly all over the map. Get equipped that way .. then do your thing. (kill a mil player, loot him, or go look in a high loot place, but expect to meet someone, and zombies too) Enjoy

I never had an "I Am Here" marker following me around in real life - that would be really weird!

Sounds like a normal afternoon to me, except not finding matches, and not knowing how to use human guts and a stick to start a fire, so you had to eat your friends raw, and that can be unhealthy Hmmm. crafting skills are what you lack, not persistence. You know v0.6 is going to introduce intestinal tapeworm parasites? You'll be able to make bowstrings out of them and nooses for suicide, and tie people up with them, so it's not all bad news.

For very good use of a grenade in combat see sobieski12's video A deliberate grenade penetration attack through a hangar wall takes out 2 of his team at 2:20 in the vid - the whole video is worth watching from start to finish

OK, good to know. thanx SMoss ( you guys hang in there ok ? )

Playing on a 3pp server is not a dirty trick because anyone can use 3pp on anyone else. The way human eyesight really works means that 3pp and 1pp both have weaknesses - they are different weaknesses, but neither is perfect (for sure!) But if you want more stress in your game every minute, and you need to stay hyper frosty all the time - and if you can face it - play 1pp definitely You'll burn out faster each session, it's a more difficult game. Kohlbar - There have been some ideas and internal trials, and a demo or two, and public discussion & ideas of better ways for 3pp.. I don't know if those ideas are ongoing now (check the threads) One important thing is that most players prefer 3pp (as it stands) given the choice. So no-one will throw them all off the game because a minority want something different. If there were enough 1pp players to fill just a few servers in every country, then they would have a much better argument for how good it is All this has been discussed A LOT (with acrimony too) - look around, there have been rants. But new thoughts and technical ideas and suggestions about how to improve 3pp gameplay are worth mentioning IMO, If they have not been suggested already.

Doesn't matter "what kind of server" because its only the average lifetime across all players that counts. - taken from the early MOD site - The same week that DayZ Mod hit 1 million players, the site header said: Average Life Expectancy 65 minutes ( August 6, 2012) web.archive.org/web/20120819155037/http://www.dayzmod.com/ That was pretty normal life expectancy for a game with all kinds of players - ArmA II team players, and first time players, and "role players" - with all the exact same range of folk that we still get today in this "roll playing survival game". - right from the start of the MOD it was even named << ArmAII DayZ Zombie RPG >> The Website asks - "What will you become?" - "This is your story" . So nothing has changed (Roll Playing Game) - some folk cooperated, private servers started up, some played lone wolf, there were open servers for all comers, there were bandits and heroes, tents, hunting - it always WAS a "role playing game". It doesn't matter a lot what players call themselves. They can be "Hunter/Farmer/Scrounger/No-Pants/Jesus Freak/Griefer/ Hoarder/Killer/Lotsa-LOL/Cannibal/ Friendly/ Medics of the Wasteland/Squeaker/ Helicopter-Hunter/Sniper/Thief/Confidence-Trickster".. - that is how they describe their playstyle (or other people describe them like that) - but those names and descriptions prove that an "RPG player" is NOT someone who (by definition) lives a long time because you cooperate on a private server only with friends, and run no-kill zones, and tell everyone you are "a Tax Accountant on the run from Sweden whose Lear Jet hard-landed killing your pilot wife who was a Olympic Medal Shot-Putter," whatever.. that "whitelist-with-special-rules" server means you like to play safe with friends, no outsiders, and not get shot or looted by people you don't know. (like playing as if there has never been an apocalypse and you are actually on a kind of camping trip in a fairly calm deserted region?) That's fine (respect - it's your bag Tigermonk) - but that has ALWAYS happened since the start of the Mod, people always played very differently, with as many different styles as there are players. There have always been what you call "RP" and KoS and friendly and medics and etc etc, and public and private servers - So how come the AVERAGE lifetime back then was an hour or two ? And now it's a month ? What happened ? because? 1 ) Most people now play white-list private with their friends and store loot and never get killed ? 2 ) A small minority play the very few 50/50 servers for a 10 minute kill-fest (you know there aren't many 50/50s) ? 3 ) The rest play what they like on their public kick servers and don't give a damn ? So, to claim some players "live longer than others" is missing my point. The point is - what is the average life expectancy today? I'm sure it is HIGH. I think it's so high that players get bored before they die. Listen to the forum complaints, see what I mean ? The only thing that ever made DayZ special was the endgame - the endgame is You DIE. [no offense intended at all Tigermonk - play as you like, more power to you! Enjoy] xxPILGRIM

well at least I got 1 vote- but Irishjake got 9 votes And that shows what always happens on these topics - vote rigging - see ? anyone can do it