pilgrim*

CLASS ! (but COME BACK Irish... dont stay out there... return to your homeland, the people need you)

I spent the last couple of sessions fighting zombies. I go look for zombies to fight. We fight. I want to get in some good zombie fighting before they get calmed down again. Sooner or later they rip my clothes to shreds. So now I go to barracks to find more clothes and also more zombies to fight. It's cool. It's a way of life. I havent seen another player for 2 days. Sometimes I can't find zombies. I guess they should be there but there aren't any. No players around and no zombies. If I just missed someone killing them they should respawn, right? Or they are all chasing him out of town, but they should spawn anyway? Mainly - I find enough zombs and enough clothes I like how crazy they are at the moment. Unpredictable and definitely over-excited. So that's what I do for fun. Before you log out - go a long long way away from zombie places, and wait around to see if any are following you from 1000 yards away, before you log.

OK lets' go through this anyway - 1) as you say " no it's not a real moral choice " ok we agree on that, it is NOT a moral choice - lets agree it's something 'like' a moral choice maybe? It "seems" like a moral chioce to the player. OK we can agree on that - its a game where we play at making 'moral choices' 2) OK - so what kind of simulated moral choices can we make? Well, this is the problem, because the simulated moral choices you can make and can not make depend on the GAME.. they don't depend on the player. (dont get mad, think about it) The player can only follow the rules. There are many games that involve 'lying' or 'bluffing' or players joining forces to make 'unfair' combinations against other players.. Poker, Monopoly... and yes, those are classic win/loose games, where the AIM is to defeat the other player. So 3) here we have an "open-world" game where you do not HAVE to defeat another player, you can trick, you can lie, you can bluff, you can attack you can help another player (ya can in poker and monopoly too.. but put that aside) so you do not HAVE to 'attack' other players because there is no WIN in the game (except maybe objectives you invent yourself, from time to time). Still - you can only do what the Rules state and you cannot play outside the Rules. 4) So the choices which are 'simulated moral' choices- hmm, the only choices you can make depend on the Rules. For instance, to make it plain, there is a ton of "simulated moral" stuff you can't do in DayZ because it is outside the rules, you cant help or cure zombies, you can't lock people in jail, you can't become rich (no profiteering) you cant escape, there is no way out... plenty of sensible real life stuff you can't do because it is not in the rules. A Hockey player can't pick up the puck and run with it.. ya know, thats not in the rules.. So he plays according to his rules, the Poker players use their rules, DayZ uses DayZ rules, and the Rules decide what you can do and cannot do.. the Rules decide what could be LIKE a 'moral' choice or a simulated "immoral choice" and the Rules decide what 'simulated moral choices' you can't make because there's no way of making them. If there were different rules you would have a different <simulated morality> to choose from. So the rules for this one game give you the choices for this one game. 5) So to say, for instance: "you act like in real life", is - excuse me - ridiculous.. perhaps this is more like some kind of dice throw from the first Dungeons and Dragons board game where we decide if we are Good, Bad or Unaligned and then we get different powers? If I'm bad I can shoot people in the leg and if I'm Good I can't.. but oh wait, the 'Good' CAN too.. and I can change my mind about being "bad", or I can do "good" by mistake..etc.. but - I'm still playing inside the rules NOTHING has changed. If Im a Black Elf and I tripe a Hobbit because I hate the naffers, am I doing bad? No I'm doing Good! (but this distinction is meaningless). So please dont say that hiding in the forest and not bothering any player is Moral, and shooting down freshspawns is Immoral... I'm using the same rules, I'm playing the same game. As you say "simulated moral choices" is what's happening. Not real moral choices. This is clear because these game choices have no 'real world' consequences. If you play rugby you might get your nose broken, but everyone knows that - you dont want to risk it you don't play - getting your nose broken in a rugby game is not "moral" or "immoral" 6) Now IF you want to have your own FANTASY inside this game and say "Im the Lone Ranger" then go right ahead. The rules say you can do that. But you can't rob cash from the rich, and you can't sew up the wound of a poor sick zombie, and you can't shoot the handcuffs off a prisoner..Look close and you see there's NO WAY you can act ANYTHING like in "real life", and if somehow this game could be "very realistic" then it wouldn't be a fun game at all. But this game can never be that. 7) When you turn of the PC the game vanishes, its an illusion, it has no consequences in itself, it doesn't exist anymore, the gameplay has no consequences in the world (hey, maybe in the real world you stayed up too late and maybe you promised not to, that's immoral I guess, but that's not in-game) The game is an illusion. it has "no real moral choices" in it - as you said. I agree. Cool If your poll said "What kind of fantasy do you act out in DayZ" it would maybe make more sense - but you can't link a game to reality in this simplistic way, because that un-link between games and reality that's the REASON for games. I made my point 3 times, you made your point 3 times. I answered your poll the 'logical' way you wanted me to. I gave you Beans. What more do you want from me? Let's call it quits. Enjoy xx pilgrim

When you start playing this game you just get killed a LOT. All the time. That's how you learn. Dont worry about it, everyone went through the same thing.. When you get good at it you still get killed a lot, don't get me wrong But PvE servers are quite often full of killers there just to kill PvErs. PvE doesnt really exist at the moment. Its not an official thing. Look around - some servers give you a teamspeak channel to join if you want. Maybe meet people. But dont expect to be able to trust anyone until you know them, at all, and expect to get killed a lot anyway. Someone on this forum might help you find a group. It's funny how you get to like it after a while. Headphones with a mike can help a lot too.. xx pilgrim

You don't need to point out that it's a simulation and you haven't actually killed him? - I think you need to know it is. Because if you don't know it's a simulation then you HAVE killed him And if you play a simulation according to the rules, how can that be immoral? xx

point understood tenshukaku BUT Inside a game you can't make a moral choice, you can only play according to the rules or you can cheat. The rules say you can take other pieces off the board. You say "but those aren't pieces, they are human beings" Now which game are we talking about here? I swear I have not hurt a human being all the time I've played DayZ. I may have offended someone, but not any more than I've offended someone when I beat them at chess. Shake hands. "Play the game"? I like to play black.

Yep Also I think this is interesting: So WHY do people (in the real world, before they start) choose the names they choose to play in the game... ?? My name 'Pilgrim' comes from the past, from internet stuff and another game/place entirely, I use it for continuity here - maybe it will turned up somewhere else or I'll hear from someone I already knew, it's a kind of address. But to play DayZ I have another name, something deliberately different. I guess you can say if someone calls themselves "AxeKilla" it's pretty obvious why they chose that (maybe?), but a lot of people don't give themselves obvious names in this game, I think. Just something I noticed.

Well - OP makes good point, from someone who sounds sane and sensible. With a good video backup for the argument. xx pilgrim

OK... I was wondering why I keep turning up half naked on a beach wearing somebody elses gear (just joking.. joke ok..)

It's true its not a very practical idea, its kind of Robinson Crusoe and you'd need a machine shop, it would be very difficult, and work badly and why bother. There are readymades laying around. On the other hand If you ever found a gun - with standard iron sights, or any kind of sights - the first thing you'd do would be sight it in. If it's in working condition that's the absolute first thing to do right? That takes some time. I've been unlucky in life, I've never found a LRS lying around I could just clip on a gun and hit stuff 1000 yards away.

We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never be de-alpha'd ed: a day later, man I thought someone would have spotted the quote by now what planet is this?

why not stick + rope = splint pitchfork + tape = splint etc etc confucious say: axe + wooden house = plank

And with that stuff, that mean you gonna WIN, right ?

Go on a quest Decide you want : A Long Range Scope Or 4 canteens Or a Press Vest Or all 4 parts of the Map And just don't give up till you get that. Everything else wiill happen to you on the way.

<< I think you missed my point>> Sorry, I dont mean to mess up your poll. I'ts just that you're talking about "morality" in a role-playing conflict game (a conflict game is were the rules say you can attack other players, like ice-hockey) If I asked "do you play 'good' or 'evil'" when you play chess, that would be difficult to understand. And Anthonly Hopkins plays Hannibal Lecter - and does it VERY well. But in real life he likes gardening and he has a family and a quiet life. So if you want to know 'why' people do what they do in games, you've got a lot of research ahead of you, its been a big question for a long time, and already you have to understand what a game is. e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game No one has come up with a good answer to that at the moment, in my opinion. It's like -everyone knows, but no one can explain what they do. So you can ask people what they do in THIS game, but you can't ask what they do in "games". And the word "morality" is from the real world, so the only way someone can be "not moral" in a game is by cheating at the game. And, finally, people will tell you they do one thing or do another, but in fact that is a 'role' they chose (for any kind of reason or by chance) in this role-playing game, and they will change it or not stick to it, or forget about it, all the time.. maybe without even noticing.. So yes - I do speak English - and yes I do D0 all those things <Maybe Sometimes Always Never>.. thats exactly what I do when I go into a game like this. I go into "Maybe Sometimes Always Never" and I do that, that's my game.The only question is "do you play these kinds of game or not?" And maybe there are some parts of my real life in this game, I dunno - ask Anthony Hopkins if he eats meat. OK sorry for that.. Your questions are perfectly good. Beanz and I'll fill in your questions logically now. (grin) xx

I think you missed my point No prob, go lightly bro

This is a Game, right - it's not the same as life If you go see a movie or a play, it's a movie, it's fiction - it's not the same as life That's what these things are FOR, dude People have been writing theories about this stuff for 2000 years.. BIG books and debates and psychology Why do people play? Why is a play called a "play"? What do you get out of it? What's the difference between "play" and "real life" ? Hmm.. I thought everyone knew this stuff? No insult intended, friend. Keep researching. (so the answer to your poll is YES to all eight options) xx

Not axe - just FNX45 now, good for players too. And run a lot. Also got a can opener.

"My body feels wet" This guy's freckles go away from being in the rain

Hey wow what we DO find out about each other does anyone else have anything like these "freckles" anywhere except on their arms?

Perhaps you could get a friend to go along there and shoot you as you spawn in? xx

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/188501-fix-the-drown-issue/#entry1940140 http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/188534-character-profile-bugged/#entry1940540 already in February http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/177296-cannot-respawn/#entry1814780 This has been a problem for a long time, there are threads about it, but I don't know that it was fixed yet. you can maybe try starving to death ?

OK..I thought maybe they jumped up again when they got were they were going. But you mean - even if you point the barrel upwards - the bullet won't go upwards anyway?

Let me guess - they drop out the end of the barrel and run along the ground to the target?

and, a lot of discussion: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/182234-post-patch-zombie-feedback/#entry1871615 zombies are badder than they were last week - you arrived at the right moment. (they kind of buffed them a bit.. and the zombies also went kind of crazier .. ya know ... zombies get like that sometimes)