Whyherro123

Ugh. You do realize that having a long beard, like long hair, is a serious liability in CQC, right? It gives the enemy something to grab on to. So, when fighting those zeds with your "Duck Dynasty" beard and long hair, just expect them to randomly grab you, pull you to the ground, and tear your throat out. Or, when fighting with other players, don't get all pissy if they grab your hair, yank your head back, and stab you through the throat. INSTAKILLED Not even touching the issue of hygiene. Personal cleanliness is a big deal in a survival situation. Where are you getting soap and shampoo for your luscious locks?

1) He isn't helping anyone. If he is, the actual help received is incidental, and probably not related to his dropping a flare. If anything, what is more likely to happen: people avoid the building because there is a flare, or people gravitate towards the building because there is a flare? Nothing screams "SOMETHING INTERESTING HAPPENED/HAPPENING" like an obvious sign of player presence. 2) I know how to be a hero. I listed several methods. He apparently thought they weren't good enough, and preferred his useless-and-probably-harmful form of ego-boosting. Doing something minor to (maybe) help someone in the future does not make you a hero. Seeing someone in your sights and not shooting does not make you a hero. Letting someone know a building has already been looted does not make you a hero. Taking out those bandits killing freshspawns on the beach makes you a hero. Leaving a note in a location that says "Hey guys, there wasn't much here. If you need food or medical supplies, go to X and you will find a stash" is ...partially a heroic act. Running into a city engulfed in a firefight in order to rescue someone who asked for help on the forums is a heroic act. Hey, if he feels like he is helping people, no skin off my back. I just don't like how apparently ANYTHING that has the possibility of a positive outcome is now a "heroic act". I, rather obviously, disagree.

No, actually. This is something many people get incorrect about people from past eras. The "life expectancy" of the average human being from the Roman Empire all the way to the 1850s was roughly 60-70, AKA pretty close to modern times. What differs was the "average life span", which is usually the 30-40 figure you mention. This is due almost entirely to the atrociously high levels of infant mortality. So, as long as you lived past 2, you could reasonably expect to see 60, barring disease, war or accident. However, making it past 2 was the hard part. This is the major reason why "ancient peoples" (and relatedly, people living in the 3rd World, no offense intended) had so many kids, barring having more bodies to work: only a few would live to see adulthood. It isn't that we are living longer today compared to the past (we are, but not by all that much), it is that more people are surviving to reproduce.

What is a "highly dangerous building"? Grocery stores and hospitals? Not....really. And, by your own admission, it "may save lives". MAY. MAY. MAY. Definition of "May": c —used to indicate possibility or probability So, you aren't even "protecting" people by dropping a lit flare in a "dangerous" (snort) building. It doesn't even take much (read: any at all) effort to do so. The "heroism" of an action is pretty much proportional to the risk you undertake in order to do so. You aren't putting yourself at risk to help the other players by dropping a lit flare. While, on the other hand, giving a starving player some food, or saving them from infected or bandits, or giving them medical assistance, is a selfless action undertaken at often great personal risk. What you are doing is little more than offering directions in a roundabout, ambiguous method. I really don't think you understand what "selflessness" means.....

Still isn't helping people. Any asshole can drop something/set something up to warn people away, even inadvertently. What are you giving up to help others?

Yes, being selfless in this game makes you a hero, especially when everyone else is being a cock-mongler. How, exactly, are you helping other players again? " DUDE I TOTALLY SAVED UR LIFE BY LEAVIN A FLARE THER!" -Took all the rest of the loot in the hospital/grocery store- vs "Here, I've got a splint for your broken leg. Have some food and water as well. Try to avoid going up stairs, there is a pretty bad glitch"

Why? They will find out someone has been through when they find the place looted... How exactly is that "making the world a better place for others"? Also, that isn't being a hero. Being a hero is helping other players selflessly. Giving an injured player medical assistance. Giving out food somewhere. Saving them from infected. Not giving them a false feeling of paranoia.

Players overwhelmingly use military-style gear right because it 1) is effective (arguably. I've gotten more kills with a Blaze 95 than I have with an AKM. Right now, I am using an SKS, which is practically a "civilian" firearm.), and 2) it is EVERYWHERE. Seriously, there are so many tightly-concentrated military spawns on the map, it isn't even funny. Spread out the military spawns, make them harder to find, and people will use other firearms. Also, ammunition. There is so much ammunition spawning in, that you can rather easily gather at least 100+ rounds of 7.62x39mm in one sitting. Having that much ammunition on me gives me an "itchy trigger finger", and I don't KOS! Make full boxes of ammunition spawn in, give us different "qualities" of ammunition (Soviet military surplus 7.62x39mm is MUCH different from higher-grade batch-made 7.62x39mm), add in some firearm maintenance (field-stripping, cleaning, jams, failure-to-feed, etc, based on "dirtiness", with different-quality rounds causing different levels of "dirtiness"), and have detachable magazines spawn in empty or nearly empty (to represent use). Listen; Soviet military arms, like the Mosin-Nagant 91/30, SKS, and AKM were literally produced in the millions (there were approximately 10 million AKM rifles made during its official production, for example), so I have no problem with there being an....."adequate" number of "military firearms" to be found in Chernarus, especially since said region was undergoing what was essentially low-key civil war al la ARMA 2. However, cut back on ammunition. Yes, there were a LOT of 7.62x54mm and 7.62x39mm rounds produced, but a lot of that was Soviet surplus (read: mostly shit). What was most likely given to a second-tier Soviet Republic, then Communist-style rebels? That same Soviet shit. What was probably used up during the civil war, and also during the initial outbreak? The stockpiles of shitty Soviet surplus ammunition. As for your "specific groups" comment: well, what exactly do you expect them to do at this point in time in-game? I play as a "survivalist" whenever I play by myself, and even I get bored of fishing, farming, and hunting over time, especially since all of those concepts are barely implemented, much less fleshed out. My clan made a farm last night. We grew literally every crop you can grow, did some fishing, and cooked some venison we shot. Everything took about 1/2 an hour. Me: well, that was interesting. When everything gets finished, Ram (the clan's Logistical section, which I belong to) will have a fun time keeping everyone stocked, fed, and ready to go.... Clanmate: Yep. Be awesome when it is finished. ....silence.... Me: welp, nothing more we can do here. Want to go kill things up in Novo? Clanmate: sure. Again, there is practically NOTHING else to do in the game at this point, and military equipment is ubiquitous. Why not use it? And, it is practically a waste of ammunition to shoot infected at this point in-game, so the only other thing to shoot is other players. You can't really give us a shit-ton of military equipment, only one really kinda-sorta finished activity, and then complain when we use said equipment to accomplish said activity.

For once, I actually agree with Grimey Rick. What do "lone wolf" players think would happen in the real world? Realistically, "lone wolf"-style survival is very difficult, and this is without there being "infected" and organized militias/bandits duking it out. Realistically, militias and bandits (I am separating the two based on intent) would group up almost immediately, and force those that didn't want to join either out to the hinterlands. People would flock to the militia compounds and farm, trade, distill moonshine, etc, as well as for protection from the bandits. These bandits would be doing their damnedest to raid said communities for food, ammunition, or other supplies. People not aligned with a community (perhaps identified by an in-game item, like a card or a paper --PAPERS PLEASE--) would be viewed with suspicion at best (and receive less value when trading) or hostility at worst (that guy coming up the road with a sniper rifle? He could totally be a bandit spy trying to infiltrate the community! Best take him out....) The "Mountain Men" that Lone Wolves keep referring to? They totally operated in groups. Sorry guys, but actually living on your own for long periods of time was rare. There are examples, but this is because they were notable (AKA different from the norm), and ever-so-slightly romanticized in the American psyche

I take umbrage with the "moron" comment. The exercise was done in order to prove the point that fires can be successfully made when in the rain or otherwise inclement weather. I soaked the wood to represent the wood being soaked by rain, because it hadn't rained in 4 days during the middle of a New England summer. Want to know how my students succeeded? (And, in fact, were the sole group that passed the course over the entire summer?) They used critical thinking skills, AKA tried different things out. The larger pieces were split into quarters using a knife, so that they would both dry out faster and have more surface area exposed to the flame. The kindling had the wet bark layer scraped off, then split in half so it would do the same as above. The Tinder was stuffed next to each members groin and armpit, so that their body heat would dry it out. All this without me suggesting anything. They just pooled ideas together, came up with something they thought would work, and worked together to accomplish it. Guess what happened? Within 20 minutes, they had a fire going, and stacked up the rest of the soaked wood in order to dry it out. 2) I like your use of that quote at the end, I use it all the time in my class. However, the point I am trying to make in this thread is that there should always be the possibility, no matter how small, of alternate methods of survival. Don't have matches? Use a friction-plow. Don't have a raincoat? Drape a tarp around yourself, or, failing that, cover yourself in sheets of birchbark. Don't have shoes? Cut chunks out of a tire/tree bark, and tie them to your feet with rope/cordage. etc etc etc Survival should be based on "ingenuity and will to survive" (improvisation of equipment, using equipment for multiple tasks, etc) first, then equipment second.

1) What do you mean, "conditions of the environment"? I've gotten fires started in the rain using the hand-spindle method. Hell, my beginning-students (with no prior experience) have gotten a fire started using the friction-plow method when all the firewood they had was deliberately soaked in a bucket of water. Like I said above, there is always dry wood to be found, so long as you look/work hard enough for it. I have yet to come across a situation where air-humidity has had an effect on my fire-making-success. And you do realize that "matches + fire lay =/= automatic success", right? All matches do is make it easier. 2) Gloves. I wear thin rock-climbing gloves when in the woods, and my hands are pretty callused. And, even in-game, there are plenty of leather working gloves laying around. And, you know what I would do in real survival situation if my hands were getting blistered and I had no gloves? Tear off a strip of something and wind them around my hands as makeshift gloves. You can't do that in-game (and therefore have to depend on spawned loot) only because the devs have arbitrarily prevented you from doing so. If your survival depends on it, you will find some way to make it work

They are if they hit something in the environment, but not if they hit an actual living target (player/zombie). Which makes no sense.

I'll admit it: I am a member of a clan, and when I play with my friends, heavily-militarized PvP is what we do. It is fun, and, quite frankly, pretty much the only thing to do in the game at this point in time. However, we do have plans for basebuilding, agriculture, and trading with other groups, and once those get implemented, we expect them to occupy a major portion of our time, and be the major focus of our clan (gotta protect the farms from those bandits, etc) Also, when I play by myself, I play as a survivalist; bow, fishing traps, rabbit snares, and crafted backpack. Add more survival/homesteading aspects, make the weather, environment and such the enemy, and cut back on ammunition spawns, and you will (hopefully) see at least some of the playerbase switch over to "survival" mode. TL:DR Clans play the "pew pew" because there is little else to do with the game at this point.

How to make and use a friction-plow How to make and use a hand-spindle Holy shit, guys, that was so hard. I can't imagine how someone wouldn't at least think about rubbing two sticks together! Guess I'm fucked without any matches!

1) Technically, you don't need a bunch of tools to make a wooden stick-bow. All you need is a sharp edge and some working feet. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFTPxK2X0NA) The thing about the "Improvised Ashwood Bow" in-game is that it: 1) Would barely work in real life, being little more than a thing green stick 2) Said green stick isn't even carved down, like a "real" stick-bow. 3) Is capable of propelling arrows with unrealistic accuracy out to an unrealistic range with unrealistic power, for a bent green stick. Would a "real" stick-bow be capable of making shots like these?(http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/218261-improvised-ashwood-bowarrows-are-great/ Look at Gews Post) Yes, but not a bent green-stick propelling light arrows. 2) There is always dry tinder and firewood available, even in the harshest of weather conditions. You just have to look for it. And, even if there weren't any "outside" sources of fire-making-material (which is unlikely), there is always stuff you can find inside the HUNDREDS of buildings around Chernarus. Shave slivers off a doorframe, use chemical cleaners as an accelerant, rip up carpet to use as fuel, burn bits of plastic ( A plastic disposable spoon will burn for about 10 minutes), etc etc etc. Point being, you adapt and improvise your environment in order to survive, rather than surrendering because you don't "get what you need". 3) Will an average person be able to build a bow-drill fire-starter? No. Will they be able to make and use a friction-plow? Yes, it is one of the easiest "primitive" methods to use, and more effective than the hand-spindle method. However, that isn't the main point. The main point was: They were doing what they had to, trying things out, instead of throwing their hands up and screaming "IM FUCKED GUYS, DONT GOT NO MATCHES". There are plenty of stories of otherwise-untrained people thrown into survival situations, and they make do with what they have.

1) If he had 10 guys helping him, then probably a week. Which is why advanced basebuilding, like what I describe above, would only really be done by organized groups. 1 guy on his own will not accomplish a lot. 2) If you pay attention, you would realize that there are LITERAL STACKS of building materials laying around the game world; stacks of lumber, what-look-to-be street-poles in piles, pallets of bricks, pallets of concrete dust, and pre-made slabs of concrete. It would not be like Rust where you pull finished walls and materials out of your ass.

So, you are telling me that you wouldn't try it? Try anything? Just give up because you didn't know perfectly well what to do? Never take my class, your life would be hell. I taught myself how to survive, no-one taught me. I read about using a friction-plow in a fantasy book, thought it was cool, and tried it out. Took me three hours, several broken plows, and too many blisters to count, but in the end, I got a fire going. And, it turns out I was using the wrong "kind" of wood. (You want hardwood plow on softwood board. I used softwood on softwood). I was nine. If a nine-year-old kid with no experience and knowledge of the field could get something done with little more than an idea and a wheelbarrow of gumption, why couldn't an actual adult? From making that working friction-plow, I was hooked. I looked up other methods, including a bow-drill, and tried them out. I failed, and got rather upset. Hours spent gathering materials, building the set, and working hard at it, all down the drain. Then I tried again. And again, until it worked. Then I actually started getting into Wilderness Survival, did a lot of research, and essentially trained myself. I am sure that even most "Average Joes" have heard about primitive fire-starting methods. Whenever I mention I teach Wilderness Survival, they almost always mention, 'You mean starting a fire by rubbing sticks together, right?" That thought would stay in the back of their minds, and if they ever found themselves in a situation without matches or lighter, I would expect them to think," Shit, that guy said he can start a fire by rubbing two sticks together! I should try that!" Of course, they would probably fail, as the process is a little more technical than that, but the point is that they tried.

Uh, yes? How much meat (and not just "lean" muscle meat. Organ meats (like the liver, kidneys, brain, etc), intestines, etc) do you think an actual animal has in real life? Probably more than you could eat on your own before it goes bad. And, when persistence gets fixed, we would then have the perfect way of having unpreserved food go bad. Raw, fresh food (raw meat, vegetables, fish) would go bad the fastest, then followed by cooked versions of the above, then by preserved (smoked, dried, salted etc), then by canned food. So, you can kill a deer, then spend a good amount of time preserving the meat so it doesn't go bad. And I never said food should be a huge problem, I said that it should take longer. Right now (INB4 ALPHER, yes, I know), crops grow in literally minutes, and grow without any problems whatsoever. Where is the concern about the future harvest? Will you have enough to eat now, and also have enough to plant and have enough to eat in the future? Which is why I like having crops grow over a week of real time. Animals should be harder to hunt, most definately. While "hunting for days" was a little hyperbolic, animals right now literally ignore you until you get within 10 or so feet. Does a deer do that in real life? IRL, hunters with rifles spend days (even seasons) waiting for the perfect shot. Granted, they are hunting for specific animals, and if you were hunting for food, you wouldn't be so picky, but the point remains. Hunting big game in Day Z should be difficult, but have a suitably large return. Small game should be far easier, but offer less of a return (a rabbit or squirrel give you one meal, maybe two, and a small skin)

See, that is the thing. I don't want to have to depend on anything. If I am playing on a persistent server, and the coast has been picked clean, I want to be able to actually survive by using alternate methods to make rope, make a knife/make an axe, start a fire, make a container for holding things, rip blankets off beds for insulation, build shelters and fires for warmth and protection from the elements, etc etc etc, all without having to step into a town and actually depend on a random and entirely fickle and broken loot generator. Primitive survival is not easy, nor is it fast, like "modern" equivalents. Don't get me wrong, I use modern things, like steel knives, matches, fleece clothing, rubber-insulated boots, plastic water carriers. However, I also know how to use the "more primitive" methods, and if I don't have access to the modern stuff and methods, you can bet your ass I am going to use the older ones. I want to survive. If it is raining, and I don't have rain-gear. You bet your ass I am going to look for a tarp, or, lacking that, rip a blanket off a bed to use as another layer. If I don't have a knife, I am going to break some glass to get a nice,sharp edge. If I don't have matches, I am going to try anything and everything to get one going, from raiding chemical cleaners (which often contain alcohols) in houses, to striking sparks from a rock, to rubbing two sticks together. I am going to do whatever it takes to survive. That is what Day Z could be, and what I want it to be, not "Oh well, this spawn doesn't have matches, better suicide before I freeze to death".

There is a difference between "facing almost certain death" and "fucked over because the fickle loot gods decided to not spawn any matches, and that is the only way to build a fire because players and the devs didn't want "survival handed to them on a silver platter", ie, have alternate methods of doing activities"

I don't really understand why you think using "natural/primitive" methods of survival, and making "primitive" (which the above things I linked to are decidedly not) tools and equipment is "giving survival to you on a silver platter". The methods I described and linked to are difficult and time-consuming. "Modern" methods and materials are preferable because they are faster and easier, not because they are more effective. Do I use matches or a lighter to start fires when I camp? Of course, I'm not a masochist. However, I don't depend on them, and both carry and know other methods of fire-starting. That is what survival is, not being dependent on specific things/methods, and being able to improvise them when needed. "Pure Dumb Luck" only makes up a small "percentage" of the actual equation. Most of it is the "Will to Survive", AKA what are you willing to do? Are you ready to try anything in order to survive? Or, are you going to give up because you don't have any matches, and get all frustrated and whiny because the other ways are "too hard"? Survival is: 1% dumb luck 4% equipment 10% skill 85% will to survive Note: There are many different "survival equations" floating around. EDIT: Hey, what part of the city are you from? My family is from Dorchester.

1) No, it doesn't. Allowing players to build massive fortresses that would collapse under their own weight? Yes, no realism. Allowing players to build shacks, rough walls, and small compounds with a lot of work, time, and materials invested? Pretty much realistic, both in the sense of what would be possible and what would likely actually happen. 2) Clan vs clan warfare is pretty realistic. Human beings are tribal by nature. 3) Your opinion. And I know you know that old phrase about opinions......

Mate, you can literally run from one side of the map to the other in roughly 20 minutes. Want to run faster? Don't be a munchkin and double-gun.

Yep, way too much processed food. However, farming should take way longer, and hunting should be way harder. Both as a nod to realism, and to promote critical thinking and planning skills. If growing plants take only a few minutes (which is currently what happens), then you never have to worry about food again, as you can gather seeds from grown plants. And, if animals are stupid enough to allow you to literally walk within 10 feet of them (again, what happens currently), then hunting becomes trivial. I've wanted agriculture to take about a real-time week, as this is fast enough where you can see the growth and experience the return. but long enough where you would start to worry about your next meal during the waiting, and worry about if you have enough to both feed yourself and have enough seed for the next planting. And, you couldn't just switch to another server, or just not play, for that week, farm plots would, under my system, require daily maintenance (weeding, watering, etc) to ensure growth, and to prevent animals from eating the crops. Agriculture would be best suited to larger groups, as the amount of food a group requires increases linearly, while the amount of work said group can accomplish increases exponentially. Hunting, on the other hand, should be difficult. You shouldn't be able to say, " Gee, I'm hungry!", pull out a rifle, and take down that stupid deer 15 feet away. A hunt should be something that takes in-game days of stalking, or in-game days of waiting in ambush, with all that implies (need food, water, warmth, etc). Miss that one shot you get, and you might just be fucked. However, on the other hand, taking down an animal should give you a LOT of resources, and not just a realistic supply of meat. Organ meats are tasty and excellent sources of nutrients, intestines can be made into waterproof containers, sinew can be used as binding materials, fur can be used to keep warm (as well as trade goods), skins (and by proxy, brains and brain-tanned leather) can be made into tough clothing, containers, armor, etc, as well as the sheer amount of food in the form of meat even an average-sized deer offers. However, said meat (and intestines, skins and leather, furs, etc) all need to be preserved so they don't rot. Right now, you magically make leather from the skin of an animal in order to make a pack. Foolishness. You should be able to make meat into jerky so it lasts longer, and smoke hides so they become semi-waterproof. You can even do both at the same time, with a little work! Finally, there is foraging. Now, we already have the basic aspects of foraging, with berries and apples. However, foraging is a very important Wilderness Survival skill, especially with regards to food and medicine. Day Z takes place in Autumn (based on environmental conditions), so logically, there would be a whole PLETHORA of nuts, tubers, berries, mosses, lichens, etc available. You can eat some, use some as medicinal items, use others as firestarters, others make effective shelter materials, however, you actually need to know what the plant is to use it! Foraging for numerous different materials should be included in Day Z, but it should require some knowledge, maybe from a plant/tree guide. (not just "find plant. In description: GOOD FOR EATING". It should be like "find plant. In description: plant is made up of a cluster of green , spearhead-shaped leaves, with a long solid stalk with bluish flowers growing off it. There is a thick, starchy root cluster". You would need a plant guide to identify this as the dock plant, a common yard weed. Or, you just eat it, and hope for the best)

I never said it would take "minimal game hours" (If that is what you meant") I said that I could probably build one in a day or so. That is in an environment where I am perfectly safe, well fed, hydrated, and can concentrate on my work without having to worry about bandits or infected. Also, all the supplies would be either available, or easily transportable by vehicle (which can transport A LOT more that someone carrying them, or even by sled/wagon.). In Day Z, this most likely wouldn't be the case. You have to both work on the structure, keep an eye out for those bandits, stop to cook and eat, tend to your farm, as well as make numerous trips back and forth to towns to get supplies......OR, you could barter for supplies from a roaming trader, which in and of itself would lead to communities springing up around trade route crossroads. So, no, it would take a while, even with a groups. At least in my mind....