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I see a million threads about wanting this specific gun, more/less spawns of each and where they want them. I'm kinda bored with it. I just want more civilian tools and (primarily) non-military based functions... Swiss army knives, from basic ones with a single blade upto fully laden with a mini saw, magnifying glass and corkscrew Fishing nets and hooks String and crafting your own twine from natural materials Flint and steels Binoculars Tinder boxes and different methods of fire lighting taking different time frames- flint and steel/magnifying glasses/rubbing sticks Burns from mishandling fire (yes purposefully too for the bandits) The ability (and necessity) to wear multiple layers for added warmth without just needing them for extra pockets Hunting and skinning animals for furs as well as food, furs can be used for clothing or to catch a spark for firelighting. Common colds and illnesses picked up just because someone sneezed near you (protected from with a gas/respiratory mask?) Sickness from insect bites (malaria etc) Foraging of nuts, herbs (medicinal?), fruits + fungi. (Some poisonous elements as well for the bandits to forcefeed and unwary to foolishly eat) Heatstroke AND hypothermia I'm not a carebear whining about KOS, shit happens and it's 99% avoidable if you play intelligently and the few times I have been engaged by PVPers it wasn't me that died lol. I just felt like making a thread about what the game actually needs to make it more of a survival game rather than just another thread demanding more/changed balance of PVP elements or whining about losing at PVP. I have no problem with PVP being in the game and appreciate the excitement it offers but there's a million threads on that already :) Please post any further ideas below. EDIT: Some more threads I've seen with ideas beyond guns General additions to complexity of tasks: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/160720-the-only-solution-for-dayz-simulation Self-treatment of wounds: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/161763-medical-system-for-dayz-part-1-%E2%80%93-self-treatment-of-wounds/ Medical Treatment of others: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/161874-medical-system-for-dayz-part-2-emergency-care-for-other-players/ RP/Character Skills: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/158954-the-value-of-a-character

OK...since the 'remove third person from SA' thread has just been a constant argument with no solution forthcoming. I figured *maybe* it's because everyone's already got their internet swords out ready to fight to the death based on the topic title alone. Do you want this implemented? - POLL Summary: The Issue Third person view currently offers an unrealistic ability to see around corners/over terrain as evidenced in this video (please try and ignore the bits where he talks about one being better or worse) This results gameplay-wise in: Asymmetric pvp - ambushes and/or snipers can be completely undetected whilst tracking other players. Most pvp will be decided by whoever is glitching the camera around walls the best to line up their shots or wait for their back to be turned and shoot before the enemy even has a chance to be aware of them. Reconnaisance of an area before moving in is futile because another player can watch you from an invisible position. Easier pve - Horror games typically use a restrictive viewpoint to add to tension by adding to the unknown around every corner. Being able to freely see zombies from a safe position to avoid or arrange a safe takedown removes this. Additionally it's easier to scan for and collect loot whilst travelling through a town. So what's the problem? - It fractures the playerbase and creates argument between the two sides. - Some players cannot play FPS at all due to motion sickness and so if your group of buddies includes one, you're forced to join him on a server you might not like yourself. - There is no specific option on the server list to easily filter between modes. - It completely changes the PvE gameplay even before you throw other players in the mix for PvP as mentioned above - Usually in game design, selecting 1PP or 3PP is made early in the process since it affects level design and other mechanics within the game. Enabling both is an option, but it can cause a detriment to both gamplay styles unless factored in. Possible Solutions (that I can think of) - Keep it the same, never let the two player types mix and balance it the same for both modes - Results in subpar gameplay for all (zeds too easy to avoid in 3PP or too hard in 1PP, loot over abundant for 3PP or lacking for 1PP). Smaller user populations for each mode. - Keep it the same, never let the two players mix and balance it independently for both modes - Smaller user populations for each mode, requires more balancing in beta stages. - Force all players to play on one type or another and remove the other entirely - One portion of the playerbase unhappy with the result, potential loss of players. (65+ page thread of pointless back and forth) - Fix the broken mechanic in 3PP by implementing LOS and removing anything that they wouldn't be able to see in 1PP to make an even playing field for all. How this might work: http://youtu.be/g0fWg1UkGP8?t=14m8s / http://youtu.be/58cW0M2ek1A?t=3m40s - Everyone happy? Further devtime needed to implement - More restrictive camera angles for 3PP. Over the shoulder with a shorter distance from the player, like Resident Evil, no 3PP whilst proned... has been suggested by Rocket himself - Something else? I did try and read the whole 'remove third person' thread but over the 2hours it took, I might have missed some bits - it's a forum, chuck your ideas out for discussion :) Before you post - There's nothing intrinsically wrong with either perspective. There are amazing games that have used each technique but each technique does have it's own pros and cons. Please don't just flame users of the other playstyle because they're doing it 'wrong' or are being 'elitist.' - And for anyone who thinks 3PP omnivision is working as intended by the devs: "Just finished an amazing 3 hour round of DayZ on a 3PP:OFF server. In my opinion, players using 3PP rob themselves of part of the experience" Hicks - https://twitter.com/Hicks_206/status/418847558702620672 "I want to remove...3rd person" Rocket - http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/16p21g/overview_of_rockets_ama_from_today/ EDIT: Added 4th wall youtube demonstrations, thanks Jamz and KoS and Outlawled EDIT2: Added developer comments, thanks Bad_Mojo EDIT3: Bit of an edit and tidy up after 20pages of posts ^^

I don't like it...it would enable people to confirm damage and kills without having to go and investigate on their own. F.e. You're shooting at a bush the enemy has taken cover behind, meanwhile your buddy dies - he can read off the logged info and you could ascertain whether you'd killed or likely knocked the guy unconcious without having to risk leaving your sniper spot to go and see. I'm against the logging of any damage dealt or k/d stats... just a time survived and maybe zombie kill count will do

OK, sorry for bringing this up *again* but it seems that the playerbase is divided into roughly four categories on this matter with no-one budging, so, let's see how big each category is and how much weight each opinion is deserving of, because that's one thing a forum discussion can't ever show - all it does show is which posters have the most time on their hands ;) Full discussion thread is here Quick summary of the discussion: 3PP allows you to see over/around walls rather thanthe vision being based on your character's line of sight, read the OP from the thread linked above for more details. Does this affect you?

You misread the answer, the majority want 3PP fixed...not scrapped.

I hate polls / no opinon is already there :)

Look at the results of the poll... even disregarding the 23 - 35 % of players that prefer 1PP. Only 18 - 28 % want 3PP with the exploit 38 - 50% want 3PP AND WANT THE EXPLOIT GONE. Strangely enough, it looks like the poll worked, just not in your favour.

I prefer 3PP except for the exploit, as I can judge my player position and concealment slightly easier just like most other 3PP players and Rocket himself. Also with some motion sickness suffering friends I have to play 3PP or not play with them. Why do you want to play a survival pvp game with a see around walls exploit? Cool, so you want the more restrictive camera angles then, that's the alternative til someone thinks up something better. Also have you even considered the possible fixes for sudden pop-in for the 4th wall mod that were mentioned a few pages ago? Or maybe tried to think of some other way of fixing that issue?

I kinda think the worst is over *looks round next corner and sees twice as many zombies*

If you ain't got the job done in 6 bullets, you're probably dead yourself. And those 6 bullets from the magnum are more likely to get the job done

IRL do you have a circle on a map showing where you are? No. (except in shopping centres). If you're in a shopping centre in Chernarus, maybe you should get a circle showing your position :)

B.E. just kicks you out once your client has stopped responding to the server. Saves you about 30 seconds of 'No message received for xx seconds' - it wasn't BE that actively kicked you. If you were in a building then there's multiple clipping issues, so it's possible your body disappeared through the floor.

Most 3PP players don't want it. Read options C and D from the first part of the poll. Where's the option for that majority to play without the exploit?

I claim to be a 1PP player that would play 3PP if it was fixed. I stand by that. I pose statements and facts to back my case, and dismerit the case against it. You pose pointless comments, logical fallacies and rhetoric that don't further the debate but just prolong it over 30 pages instead of 5. I've highlighted with this poll that of just the 3PP players in the game, the majority wants the exploit gone. This was because a small vocal minority (seems to be about 5 players in the whole forum) kept saying that the evidence of 3PP servers being more popular was showing that the exploit is fine and working as intended. That argument is dead, buried by this poll, the reason I made the poll in the first place. Now that you don't have that to rely on, you're just screaming down the forums, attacking people that don't agree with you without even attempting to counter the points raised. It's a boring exploit and only rewards boring playstyles for players that don't want any risk in their boring survival game. Might I recommend playing Farmville? That has 3PP and you can see anything on your whole farm, it's really popular so it must be good. EDIT: Speaking of boring, I find you boring. From here on consider any response to me a soliloquy

Calling me one-sided isn't attacking the points raised, it's attacking the person that raised the points. You still haven't quite grasped this ad hominem thing, or you're just a master of irony. Anyway, enough feeding today, there's goats need to be helped crossing your bridge. EDIT: Thanks for keeping this on the first page again, those D voters are getting slaughtered recently with all the attention this threads getting.

You don't have to, I don't have to buy your opinion either, since you just troll (badly). There's an extra 216 people that already voted that excludes us so nm.

I want to play 3PP, Im in the B category. Talk to someone that cares. zzzzzzzz

I was really hoping this was gonna be another thread about broken legs with that title :(

Sorry yeah, I did add the ending onto my last post after posting since I noticed it was more accusasatory then I intended :)

Missed the point of the poll. It's 3PP (exploiters) vs 3PP (non-exploiters). The non-exploiters are winning. And it just so happens they have the 1PP playerbase in their favour as well when it comes to discussing the exploit. Although yeah 1PP's are just stoking the flames in some cases, so yeah I see your point :)

Dammit, I try to get some sleep and the walkers approach the camp in the night... Ken, please leave the thread, there are more 3PP players that don't want the exploit than players like yourself in the minority that need it as a crutch. I play 1PP and 3PP, I would like this removed for when I play 3PP and appreciate other uses of the 3PP camera, like checking backgrounds when camo'd up and checking wound locations when shot at to ascertain the direction of incoming fire. Much like Rocket, the lead dev who has already stated he's looking at ways of fixing this. Also I strongly believe this is gonna make the in-game experience more frightening and authentic for the other 3PP players. Also you've admitted yourself to being a 1 and 3PP player, so I fail to see how this is gonna drive you out of the game (more's the pity). You're just throwing your toys out the pram because the decision has already gone against you and you want to make some noise to make it seem like there's more objectors than there really are. How many posts like this: ...have you seen from 1PP players turning to the 3PP side. All your pointless trolling has achieved is more and more players opening their eyes to how this exploit affects the game in a negative way. It's now 65:45 players who currently play 3PP that don't want this exploit in the game. 96:45 if we include the 1PP players that want to play 3PP. 158:45 if we look at all the playerbase. You're losing by more and more each day the poll continues, probably because you're raising attention to this thread with a link to it in the OP and because there's no argument to keep it. So let's discuss how different methods can be implemented to fix this exploit, as per the thread title :rolleyes: BTW: Monkfish, Steam has a screenshot button itself, default F12 I think

Tighter camera might be the only answer if there can't be suitable suggestions to improve 4th wall or a completely new idea. The main issue with 4th wall is that the player observes strange results from the coding, entities popping in and out of view without much evidence to the player as to why it might be happening, it could be caused by lag, or by LOS - one of the devs described this as visual fracturing. This problem will be worst amongst many thin objects like through trees, where the entities pop in and out of visibility as he passes through them. Possible improvements might be to add a slight delay between losing LOS and the entitiy disappearing from the screen which would mean that entities remain visible whilst passing through short bits of cover as well as a gradual fade out to differentiate this from lag issues which would cause a more sudden disappearance. Also an issue is that due to the modded nature of the 4th wall, there's a delay between gaining LOS and the entitiy appearing. Whether this lag would still be present when hardcoded into the base game would be something to consider. A final issue is making it clear which parts of the map are actually visible to the player or not, a fog of war effect, possibly with the delay mentioned above might be a solution for that.

But that's an argument based on tradition. If we used that argument in all facets of life, nothing would ever change. We'd still think the Earth is flat and the sun revolves around us and all think slavery is hunky dory. It's been covered earlier in the thread. So... EDIT: Also I'm pro 3PP, I just want it fixed to make the game better, not removed Tighter camera angles or an implementation of the 4th person mod will fix this confirmed exploit which only a minority of players want to keep in the game. Pros and cons.

Pretty sure I've responded to anything stated, I believe it's you with your fingers in your ears. An ad-hominem is an ad-hominem, it adds nothing useful to the discussion, much like this post and the response to it I feel obligated to give you. Just wasting more and more pages...probably gonna have to repeat the whole 22 pages thing again in a sec after another wasted page on this. It was modded from a game that already had both viewpoints. The SA is still being made, so no decision is final yet. Lead dev says he's working on removing the exploit, this was supposed to be a thread to discuss different ways that he might do so, so let's try that eh? EDIT: Yep another page wasted with nothing new, so where were we 22 pages ago: Tighter camera angles or an implementation of the 4th person mod will fix this confirmed exploit which only a minority of players want to keep in the game.

Ken Bean: Ad-hominem - lit. to the man. You tried to disparage my discussion ability, that is an ad-hominem argument that had nothing to do with the discussion itself. Wreckless: It's quite an important decision when looking to design a game with or without different perspectives. It can affect all the mechanics and experiences of the player. You should try reading the threads on the Thief forum about adding 3PP to the new game in that series. They had it in the 3rd game and it completely killed the level design and mechanics (although there were studio issues as well) this is nothing here in comparison. When you add PvP to the equation as well it exacerbates things since there are no serious PvP games (with ranged combat yadayada) that have 3PP implemented without adding visibility mechanics ontop to counter this same exploit :) Anyway, how about discussing the implementation of different techniques to remove the exploit from the game