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Heh, Im saying most snipers wouldn't even try to diguise themselves as a chimney :) Rooftop sniping is a Hollywood idea because of the points above...(identification/encirclement/bombardment of your position and relocation to another) Ken Bean's just throwing out tangential points because he hasn't got a decent argument to say that the 3PP mechanic isn't broken...because it quite obviously is. He's been running around for over 10 pages trying to derail the thread, not being able to camoflage yourself as a chimney was just the latest feeble attempt that had to be shot down.

Snipers should move after every 2 shots as a rough guide, because after the first one the enemy will be looking and so the second one might reveal their position - they should then immediately move before they can be trapped. I think the mod didn't have enough zeds, quality or quantity-wise to pose a risk. The standalone is already intending on fixing these broken mechanics. EDIT: Anyway, I've proved that pretending to be a chimney is a crap idea. What was the rest of the crux of your argument?

This is true, but it's no more of an advantage than already knowing an area inside out before the engagement occurs - I think visibility of static map objects should pretty much remain as it is

Rooftops aren't actually the greatest places to be if you're a sniper in an urban environment: - Positions with a wide view are easily identified and targeted early. - Positions with a wide view are elevated and thus easily encircled. - The roof and top floors of buildings will be destroyed by artillery. - You can't mousehole for concealed movement on rooftops. See how bad a sniper you are? Now back to how it breaks the PvE aspects of avoiding zombies whilst looting a town, let me strap myself in for your answer.

There is no way to mask yourself as a chimney...that's your case? Maybe don't snipe from a completely flat roof where you'll be skylined then? Snipe from the window of a tall apartment block, wear camo and hide in some bushes (over a km away and you're pretty much impossible to see), use a roof where you can use an object to hide you from some angles and prevent skylining from others? Good snipers don't need a vision assist crutch, they take up good positions. EDIT: Less imflammatory

Ken Bean: Same points already been rubbished. Snipers can't see through cover without exposing themselves to look. Using cover AND peeking out from it succesfully is what cover based shooters are about, even COD. It's a broken mechanic that leads to stalemates and asymmetric pvp. We're suggesting ways to fix it. You still haven't addressed how this will affect PvE when entering towns (hopefully) full of zombies later in development. It's not harder PvP when you have easier, risk free knowledge of your opponent and his movements. It's like one player using a map-hack in Starcraft - for that player, things are considerably easier. Separating the playerbase into 1PP and 3PP servers causes issues with balancing gameplay as the game progresses through the alpha into beta. So, still nothing new, still on pages 1-5... still on the OP in fact. And so the cycle continues because you're ignoring the counter arguments. Your sarcasm is poorly implemented. Skinup: Maybe there's something new that hasn't been considered? Hence why the topic exists :) Also please don't attempt to bring elitism back into the discussion by referring to 1PP players as noobs, I'm not gonna be drawn into this like others are (I mentioned this in OP). I consider it more of a risk for the game to leave these issues untackled due to the aforementioned balancing of PvE.

Matter of taste: You want to play 3PP, we're letting you. Combat thing: Affects PvE as well as PvP. You can see zombies without putting yourself at risk as well as players. This is BAD pvp as posted about earlier in the thread (2 snipers hiding on opposing roofs waiting for the other to move). Wrong servers: Can be fixed with a button. Next. Im waiting for a reason why we shouldn't fix 3PP.

Might be nice for the bandits to capture a mechanic and force him to repair their vehicle at gunpoint...but they have to give him a wrench to do so...

Trying to call me out on distracting the discussion? I haven't seen a single relevant point from you which wasn't covered in pages 1-5. All you've done is reiterate the same things over and over without listening to a single deconstruction of your points we've put across. Basically you haven't got a leg left to stand on in terms of arguments and have just tried to smear the whole thread by turning it into an elitist flame war. I think almost 10 pages ago in spite of your argumentative manner, I managed to rubbish your points so badly that I showed you were in favour of fixing 3PP but you've still got your fingers in your ears and want to just carry one without applying any theoretical thinking to the matter. You haven't come up with anything new, just posted a load of crap. http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/162565-fix-not-remove-third-person-perspective/page-13?p=1665394#entry1665394 "1st person view is not realistic. And even if it would be, I couldn't care less, since as said, I want to see my character doing survival stuff. The game looks beautiful in 3rd person and I can see my fancy pants ingame. 1st person can't compete with it in all it's fancy awesomeness." Still possible with 4th wall or the other fixes we've suggested. EDIT: Grammar

This is something I don't understand about the engine...originally FPS were invented by id because it meant they wouldn't have to use up memory on the player character - it led to *better* framerates because they didn't have to render this foreground object and that was with simple sprite based models. Rendering a high-poly 3D model in the foreground should surely slow the FPS, not increase it :huh:

I wouldn't say I've always enjoyed every moment of gaming... being too scared to continue whilst playing Amnesia recently or Thief/Doom when I was younger and having to wait til the next day to play it during daylight! Listening to friends lose hours of investment as they got ganked defending our wormhole or being backstabbed and betrayed by an alliance CEO in Eve... not enjoyable but damn they made good 'experiences!' Pretty much the same with any MMO's isn't it? Isnt that the joy of having player interaction and content creation? Are people enjoying getting robbed by bandits? I'm not even gonna get involved with you talking about PvP again - it's just one facet of DayZ...although, those intense PvP experiences you talk about in CS...pretty sure a lot of that is caused by not knowing where your opponents are before entering an area (and them not being able to see where you're coming from either).

Once there are more zombies and they respawn, the dinnerbell guns will be drawing them in from miles around...

Completely agree with you there Zombie Jesus. 3PP and 1PP both need sound design fixes, but it's more affecting for 1PP because you don't have omnivision to make up for it. I think 1PP is a little clunky but it's no more clunky than 3PP. At the moment you have to walk through doors perfectly straight in both modes else you can't enter rooms. This prevents being able to lean in through doorways for better combat for either perspective. Could be fixed by simply as reducing the clipping of the player models. The difference is that you have to learn where your body ends in 1PP, in 3PP you can see it on screen. Mouse acceleration isn't by itself evil, but needs to be configurable and an option - this affects both 1PP and 3PP, but has more affect on 1PP since unpracticed mouse movement (or even a crappy mouse+mousepad or framerate) can disorientate you and makes it harder to get your bearings afterwards. Basically at the moment, 1PP is more hardcore BUT I think 3PP players should be asking for this change as much as we are. It's them that will miss out on the final experience of shitting themselves when they inadvertently turn a corner into a street full of zombies.

I only see a couple of idiots moaning about how they love 3PP and those are the ones that don't seem to understand the thread title and content - we're not proposing taking away 3PP, just fixing it to improve gameplay. Do you want to be scared whilst playing a horror game? Do you want good PvP that doesn't devolve into turtling and waiting for the other person make themselves known whilst you hide in a protected place? If you answer yes to those, you want 3PP fixed, same as anyone advocating these changes.

Again back to the Pvp argument even though I pointed out 3 posts ago: Like arguing with a brick wall

Basically you missed the point of the entire thread... it's talking about fixing the look over the walls exploit...which you want, yet you're arguing against it... /facepalm

I'm hoping once they add more zeds that the differences become more obvious to people trying to loot towns... at the moment the 'keep it the same' guys are harping on about PvP all the time since that's all there is in the game. With more NPC's you'll have a split of 1PP players saying 'Fuck this is awesomely tense trying to sneak around without getting spotted (like Thief 1+2)' and 3PP players saying 'Looting is too easy, we want harder zombies' (Like the shambles that was Thief 3 because they can see around every corner and plan takedowns/avoid everyone of them) - basically the balance issue I'm talking about in OP which seems to be completely ignored by some posters who think it's not broken.

Read OP lol - specifically the part about the 4th wall mod for Arma

I'd like that, but it's an ongoing cost for BI...then again once it's out of Alpha I'd probably be happy to subscribe on an annual basis in order for this to happen - a queue system would make sense though since it could also combat server hopping and ghosting...ideas for a different thread though :)

IIRC then different graphics settings offload different things onto GPU or CPU in the Arma engine... turning down some graphics might relieve some strain from the GPU and move it onto CPU

Personally I'd like a server queue system so you just choose a region then get put in a full server. Avoiding high player counts in an MMO is just as much an exploit as seeing round corners in a horror game for me.

It affects PvE as well. Read the OP. Bots might work, or just adding a button to differentiate between 1PP and 3PP servers (easy/normal difficulty) It's obvious from previous forum posts that many new users think the lack of 3PP is a broken server, when in fact they just aren't aware that 1PP servers exist.

It's not rubberbanding, rubberbanding doesn't cause you to stick in place with the screen slowly rotating. It's another bug.

It's a bug I believe, log out nice and fast if it happens because you can lose your character :(

Dont mean to be rude OP, but you pretty much answered yourself in the first post - it's alpha... Hence the whole point of your post wasn't asking for rational discussion, but just venting your frustration (and about something that's already been covered!) So...chill out, play something else for a few days/weeks whilst we wait for a patch. :)