tlane

Woah, hey there... look we don't always need good motives for having particular game mechanics. I mean we have the option to drink disinfectant.. most people don't do it because it's sort of a shitty idea. But it does stand to reason that if you can force someone else to drink disinfectant -- you damn well should be able to drink it yourself. That all said. I can totally see the benefit of zombie camouflage. Ya know, maybe in a more fleshed out manner that has been proposed already in other posts, consider simply that zombies don't attack each other (there has to be a reason for that), but let's look at the other fun part of this particular blunt force approach. Tie some poor bastard up. Dress him up as a zombie. And then drop him off in cherno to wander among the damned until "Capt. Zombie Slayer the Hero of Stoya" shows up and cleanses the land of evil. Magic. A fate worse than death no?

6 day necro is acceptable right? First, I like the idea and mostly support it. Second, I haven't done a search on other topics that have suggested the idea. I'd hope those guys have struck by now informing you how your post is pointless because it's already been said. Third, how about these: Bean-bag shotgun. Tear gas. Mace. Ya know, standard riot gear one might expect to find in a city during the course of a panic-inducing outbreak resulting in much fabulous looting. Fourth, inb4: "THIS IS NOT WHAT DAYZ IS ABOUT!!! DAYZ IS ABOUT %@!$# and KILLING YOUR OWN FAMILY!!!"

I like where your heart is, however gamma correction serves a real purpose. Punishing players who needingly use gamma correction would be unfair and annoying, especially in the manner you've proposed. As for exploiters, many monitors can be gamma corrected via hardware settings. Cheaters who really like to cheat in this way, will find a way. I'm all for "fairness >>> realism" and "fun >>> realism", but your solution is more of a band-aide that is too ineffective to make the sacrifices in realism worth it here. That is, at the very least, my opinion on the matter. I also think that this suggestion has been made before, in some form or another. In any case, I wouldn't consider it high priority.

You sir have hit the fucking proverbial nail on its fucking proverbial head. My beans to you.

My goal is not to reduce killing. The goal is to allow players who don't enjoy KoS the ability to use strategies that are currently less optimal. The risk/reward analysis explains why those strategies are currently less optimal. Bandits/Sadists would not change their ways due to these changes. As you suggest they would probably become even more brutal -- sounds fun to me. Killing always puts you at the risk of dying and a big one at that. Avoidance will almost always impose less risk. Example: you head to Stary to loot. You reach Stary and per your usual protocol you watch the city for activity. You see another player looting the city. You could shoot the player but this imposes the risk of your location being revealed by other players in the area. You could talk to the player but this imposes obvious risks. You could ignore the player and attempt to loot the city (I think this is the closest option to the risk you are referring to in your argument), similar risk levels to talking to the player, perhaps even more. OR you could just head out of Stary making sure to stay in cover during your exit. The last option I mentioned is arguably the least risk. I agree with your argument relative to reducing KoS in general, but please do not discuss this further. That is not the purpose of this topic. Many other topics have already beaten this to death. The logic behind your argument refers to increasing the risk of death (ie the chances that you will die). Do you mean the suggestions mentioned here impose unnecessary restrictions on players? I had thought most suggestions revolved around giving players bonuses for surviving/exploring/interacting. I personally do not care for the suggestions that involve imposing restrictions, but I feel obligated to list them because they are at least somewhat viable relative to my argument.

Let's end this discussion of what effects this will or will not have on existing sadists and bandits. Any argument we have will be based on hearsay and has already been beaten to death in other existing topics. We would just speculate on what sadist/bandits would or would not do. I will refrain from adding any new speculation; I'm asking you to do the same. Crazies, as you describe them, don't care anyway. Don't you think? They have no fear of death... that's what makes them crazies. They will still run around acting crazy. Would they really care about losing their skills when they already didn't care about losing their gear? Let's return to the point of the discussion which you touched on here: "And with what your adding KoS becomes the ONLY option." Based on what? You provide no evidence or reasoning behind your statement, apart from: "then there is never any reason to not blow people away." Which you don't support with evidence or logic. I'm not trying to insult you, just understand I cannot comprehend why you are making the claims you are making. If you want to understand my reasoning, check my argument in the original post. risk vs. reward. If the risk of death (in terms of having to restart) is too low then the reward is always worth pursuing. Players don't need bonuses to survive or excel, player skill knowledge should take the forefront in this regard. The bonuses should be so subtle that you hardly notice you have them until you die and restart. We simply want to increase the consequences of dying to make dying more frustrating. An argument I can accept is whether you consider dying frustrating enough as it is. Let's leave it at personal player preference -- I know a great deal of players have expressed how easy it is for them to restart and I align myself with them. I have found very few players who think death is currently too frustrating, and the ones who have expressed this have been met with a great deal of mockery. "A grind" is only one of the ideas for tuning death consequence. I can totally see how grinding can be boring for many, but some people fucking love grinding. Let's not focus our discussion on this particularly-polarized aspect. As for people who would enjoy a skill-up based mechanic to the game please peruse the forums. I have seen a very diverse set of players interested in employing such a mechanic, not just players who sit down and play for 8 hour sessions every day. Should I provide a list of forum posts? Otherwise you could just search for topics: "skill system" "skill mechanic" etc. Lone wolves already play the style I think the system I am proposing would encourage, at least late game. See option A in my original post. EDIT: Apologies for calling your argument contradictory, I just didn't understand what you meant.

I think your 1st point and your 3rd point contradict each other a bit. First you say: making death taxing would get rid of the crazies. Then you say in your third point that the crazies would have more of a reason to kill you. I agree with your 3rd point. I think it's part of why I like this idea. Make the crazies crazier. Awesome. Remember, I didn't make this thread to get rid of sadists and bandits. I am a sadist. I made this thread to give players who are not sadists and bandits the opportunity to exercise the strategies they would like to use. My argument points out how shoot on sight is the optimal strategy, so everyone should use it as the game is currently implemented. A lot of people seem to ignore this point and go straight to discussing how we should get rid of KoS or keep KoS. That is not the objective of this thread. In response to your 2nd point. Getting geared up is pretty quick and easy once you know what to do. It stops being punishing after a while, gear is easy to come by. Not only that... but if you have just 1 friend he can watch your body while you get back to it. Thus, you lose nothing. As to your edit check out: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/20112-the-only-realistic-way-to-prevent-deathmatching-make-dayz-a-living-hell/ The player here is discussing ideas to make DayZ super fucking hard including making zombies scary as hell.

Ok, so we have a number of suggestions available including some ideas pulled from other threads related to the threads directed purpose. Remember, emphasis should be put on the following: changes result in a higher value player (death sucks more), realism, difficult to abuse, and efficient implementation (not something we have discussed). For reference GodOfGrain is an outside source (separate thread) pointed out by JoostVoorDeel. The link to that thread is: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/158609-sa-suggestion-introduction-of-microskills/?hl=%2Bskill+%2Bsystem Let's give credit where it is do (may not be 100% original just as it is in the thread) and formalize the categories. Death timer: thomas28 + Applejaxc propose the use of a death timer varying anywhere from 10 minutes to 2 hours. Natural born talent: Unhek suggests that players are born with certain innate skills that do not become apparent until late game. Losing skills: Subject42 + GodOfGrain (see microskills thread) Subject42 suggests that skills could become lost when not used for a period of time. GodOfGrain envisions a system where outside forces will cause you to temporarily lose bonuses earned from skill gains such as getting shot. Skill through item/player exploration: Unhek suggests that players should be able to earn skills by reading books or learning directly from presence of another player. Grinding skills (learn by use): Unhek + raxbit suggest a system where players will earn improved skills by using skills. Skills are not locked. Ex. bandaging 50 times will allow the player to bandage faster. Abuses: player spams skills in order to level up. Reloads over and over again. Shoots every dear he sees just to gut it. etc. Earning skills by surviving: GodOfGrain suggests that players should earn subtle bonuses for lasting longer. Everything is based on how long the player has survived in real game time. See his post on microskills. TheSzerdi proposes a different but similar system within the thread. Abuses: afk'ing in order to gain skills. TheSzerdi suggest 15 minute afk autokick. Use of macros to avoid afk autokick (ie run in a circle automagically). TheSzerdi suggests that macro players are uncommon and even with success they would likely come under duress due to the likeliness that an immobilized bot player is found. Composite systems: Grinding skills + skills earned by surviving: Player earns a new skill after a period of time. The skill earned is based on the most used skill. Let's collect more outside sources to try and cement these ideas a bit more. Let's try to fit new suggestions to these categories and create new categories as necessary. Let's look for the abuses of each category type. Let's talk about the efficiency and technical challenges behind implementing a given system. My gut and minimal scripting experience lead me to think that time alive bonuses will be the most efficient and easy to implement. Please point out where I have missed something important such as who deserves credit.

The game doesn't tell us either way. Foreign in the sense I used it just means unrecognizable. So, for any player when they first start playing the beach is not one they have ever seen before. Unless they are an honest to god Chernarussian in real life (like you're suggesting?).

I really like the system you laid out, it's simple and for the most part difficult to abuse. We should take some time to identify abuses and consider possible glitches in the games code that allows for abuse. (someone sitting there reloading their gun over and over again while no one is around). What do you think of a combination system? Two requirements have to be met for each skill improvement and are reset for the next skill improvement. Survival time + 50 reloads. Perhaps add in exploration elements as well. Bandaging 50 times + 24 hours of survival time, you will bandage 0.5 seconds faster. Other possibilities could include:Reloading - after 50 reloads + 24 hours of survival time, you will be able to reload 0.25s faster, 0.5s after 200 reloads + 72 hours of survival time (after first level gain)Caveat: A reload counts when the player has fired 50 rounds and reloads (prevents reload spamming, or switching between empty and full magazines)I think we would also break down reload skill for each kind of reloading mechanism. Mosin reloading requires a completely different skill set and should scale differently. Gun Care - maintaining a weapon will result in slower item degradation Athlete - after running for 2 hours in game time, increase the amount of time you can sprint without running out of breathEscape - after being handcuffed 10 times (each handcuffing must be performed by a different player, the variable storing which players have handcuffed you persists after death ie obtaining this skill in the next life requires you to find 10 more players to handcuff you), gain the ability to slip out of handcuffs after 3 mins of being handcuffed. It may be sensible to buff this skill.Repair - after fixing 10 engines, gain the ability to repair engines faster, and use scrap parts to repair damageChemist - if junk medicine is added then after taking drugs 50 times, ability to craft drugs out of various chemicalsImprovising - after crafting 100 items (including at least 5 of each possible craft able items), you gain access to a few unique recipes, having a degree of skill in particular field will add a unique item in that field i.e. having improvising and gun care will allow you to make an improvised gun with low durabilityHunter - after gutting 50 animals, you will gain an extra meat from each guttingOdor - after being attacked by 100 different zombies, zombies will be slightly less aware of you making it easier to sneak(not sure I like this skill - seems overpowered and we don't know if it makes sense with the mythos: do zombies smell us? )Melee - after 100 melee strikes melee weapon will degrade slower, after 500 the weapon will break bones/cause bleeding/knockdown more often (with select weapons) Some additions:Lock picking (rests on the addition of a locked door mechanic): after unlock 50 unique doors the player is less likely to break his lock picking tools (50% down to 10%), after unlocking 200 unique doors the player is faster at unlocking the door.Nutritionist after eating 50 fresh fruits the player gets a 300% to energy acquired from eating fresh fruitIron belly after eating 50 rotten fruit the player is 1/10 as likely to get sick from it's consumption.Pack rat (player learns how to pack his bags and pockets better) after 24 hours of non-consecutive, elapsed game time with a completely full inventory the player will receive a 10% bonus to his inventory. This bonus applies directly to each item with storage and always rounds up to the nearest extra slot: an 8 slot vest would become a 9 slot vest. a 30 slot bag would become a 33 slot bag. 4 slot jeans would become 5 slots jeans. etc. More suggestions and modifications to the current suggestions would be awesome. Remember all skills are lost on death. Skills should be subtle bonuses, nothing game breaking. Watch dog this and discuss what are game breaking bonuses. Unhek also mentioned potentially adding natural born talents. Would it make sense if talents were then bonuses to these skill growths? Or innately having a handful of skills?

Remember my argument does not refer to players who like to KoS (bandits + sadists) so none of what you are referring to applies to my hypothesis. I don't like the idea of punishing KoS, and that is not what the goal of this thread is.

The idea is not poorly crafted or presented. I however think that it sacrifices too much for the satisfaction of only a fraction of the player base (hearsay of course, how could I know what most people want?). A few points: Loot quality is mostly subjective. Perhaps the firefighter's ax is the best melee weapon in the game... is that intended? Doesn't it seem like the majority of melee weapons would have alternative functions in a later version of the game? How do you reconcile utility with melee power in terms of loot quality? The concept becomes even more confounded with weapons/food/tools. Why do we want to encourage players to fill up servers? Based on your argument I think players more or less are already making the assessment of what they would LIKE to do. Players who play on low population servers, are in your eyes (my words, not yours), sacrificing fun for uncontested loot. Perhaps those players are simply playing a loner style where they want to avoid others as much possible... why punish them? I admit there is a need to balance loot on servers, but I think that will be done when loot re spawning is added.

This is a truly and innovative idea. As little as I care for humanity as a mechanic of the game... Your idea has been presented in an excellent fashion, and I think it would be a cool feature in the game.

I think that's an excellent point. I really like the idea of limited skills as opposed to outright locked skills, but I tried to think of things in terms of realism. In some cases locking a particular skill just makes more sense: such as performing a blood transfusion or fixing a car engine. If we don't lock these skills then the potential for catastrophe should be extraordinarily high: kill blood transfusion recipient, blow up car. Whereas I think putting huge penalties on skills such as gun cleaning, aiming, and driving should be the norm for most cases in the system I proposed. I don't like the idea of learning through doing because of how exploitable it is (I could be wrong about this though). The ability to become better at something should be heavily locked to your ability to survive longer. EDIT: "I guess you mean, the benefits that OTHERS are alive and not dead." I think this is more or less the argument I bring up in the end; it's just the flip side of increasing the consequences of death. If dying sucks more it's because you had more to lose and other players are likely to see value in that given they are also quite limited.

I really, really like the idea of natural talents, especially if they are hidden and subtle. I am concerned however that many would not share this sentiment and view it as a sort of a bullshit mechanic. A lot of players like the RPG style of the game and want to craft their character as much as possible in their own image. It could be very frustrating to fancy yourself a genius and medicinal mastermind and find out your only talent is aiming and shooting. Here's to hoping though - you have my beans.