daringd

I don't agree or disagree that one is better than the other, but using "what most people do" to back up what is better is not a valid argument. For instance, more people eat food that is proven to be bad for them in the western world than don't, it doesn't mean it's right, it just means it is more convenient, maybe cheaper, or suits more people than the alternative, it doesn't mean that the majority are right, but it doesn't mean that the minority are right either. It's just just a matter of what suits people, and it turns out that what suits more people is 3pp, the reasons why I wouldn't pretend to know, because I just don't have the information or know-how to interpret. If you are talking what sells more games, then yes, it would seem that 3pp would sell more copies, but if we use the rationale that what sells more is a better game then we would have to say that The Candy Crush Saga is a way better game than DayZ, because it sold more, and that just is not a fair comparison. Seems there are elitists on both sides of the fence (pun not intended), and people who are happy to live and let live.

I think real badasses play as 1pp in 3pp servers. This topic is sort of pointless in many respects, since no one makes 1pp players have to play with 3pp players. I see lots of arguments on both sides, and I agree no one should stamp 1pp onto people who don't want that, or the other way around. I play 1pp all the time now because I like that peple can't lay in wait and jump out on me without giving themselves away, the argument for looking over fences is fine to a point, but if you peep over a fence in rfeal life, you have to put your head up over it, and then it is in danger of being seen and getting a bullet in it. I think if they introduced the Inbetween Stance thingy™ as seen in Arma3, and a sort of peep over wall stance, plus a Take cover against wall/object and peep from there kind of option, it would probably stop a lot of people going to 3pp because then they would have other ways to see without breaking cover completely, like you can't now. Maybe? (also a 2014 Yamaha M1 Rossi Rep' so I can get some serious 'knee down' head shots coming out of that nice long left hander coming into Svetlo' from the south, one hand on the gas, the other squeezing off rounds - this is not serious.)

You should have used Simoncelli...

Wow... did you really just say that? From the OALD... liberal respecting other opinions1 willing to understand and respect other people's behaviour, opinions, etc, especially when they are different from your own; believing people should be able to choose how they behave liberal attitudes/views/opinions politics2 wanting or allowing a lot of political and economic freedom and supporting gradual social, political or religious changeSome politicians want more liberal trade relations with Europe.liberal democracyliberal theoriesa liberal politician

Where do we look to for help when we have reported servers to GSPs for rule breaking and nothing is done? I've been reporting abuse as I find it directly to GSPs and as yet only one of them actually deals with any of the problems, the rest are there hours even days later. What happens next?

While you MAY have a point, saying and/or doing nothing about it also changes nothing, at least talking about it in an open forum creates noise and emboldens people to take some kind of action. It also lets people see the general feeling, if there is a consensus, if people disagree or are on the fence, it also allows people to work together to generate ideas and solutions. There is an incentive for the GSPs to be on our side, because the feedback I have had directly from some of the GSPs indicates that there is a possibility of BI pulling DayZ from them, however slight, and if they do that, then the GSP in question would lose more than just a few clients, they would lose all of them that use their services for DayZ. The facts are that up until now we simply are not privy to the agreements between BI and the GSPs, we don't know what is happening behind the scenes, and until we do we have to understand that without the facts, we have really nothing to make these kind of judgements on. I'm not defending anyone here, I'm just trying to be scientific about this, if you recognise the problem, then either add something constructive and helpful or keep your angry opinions to yourself until you have something less circumstantial and incredulous to base them on. I started this thread and I won't have it put in jeopardy of being closed because it attracts reactionary and baseless accusations.

Peaches are your 'on stop shop' for hydration, foods and energy. Millions of peaches, peaches for me Millions of peaches, peaches for free, Look out!

Just a quick update. I have been in communication with one of the GSPs and talking about minimum standards, what are they'? who enforces them? etc, etc. To make a long story short they gave me a contact at BI to direct my questions to, that I could get first hand answers. (seems smart) I have just sent the message and I'll await a reply.

Well we are getting somewhere, maybe. I Grant you that some GSPs may be in odd time zones or have things on, and I understand that different companies will operate different policies on dealing with abuse, but it would be good to know if there are guidelines set out to the GSPs by BI, for instance: is there a standard timeframe for dealing with reports? Are there standardised punishments for breaking rules? If Fragnet can get it right 100% of the time, then there is no excuse for the other GSPs, I think that, like in many other sectors, BI should have set out minimum service standard guidelines to the GSPs, maybe they did? But there is no consistency across them. At least if we were aware of the standard we should expect, we can begin taking them to task when they do not fulfil those requirements. I understand that everything can not be fixed in one foul swoop, but this is a fundamental thing to get right, if this isn't working, then the game is essentially broken and open to exploit, and the more it happens, the more people get away with it, the less seriously people will take it, and most likely the more people will begin doing it too. Just simple fixes to begin with, like cleaning up all the server names that break the rules, that isn't even something that is hard to do, if the GSPs are responsible for upholding the requirements, then BI should be holding them to that promise. I'm sorry to state something so harshly, but it's not hard for a GSP to run automated programs that check their server names and automatically generate warning emails or reset the names if they break the rules, this is the first step, and seems blindingly obvious to me, but I'm in no position to get anything done, and that is the frustrating part.

Well, I still need to know what the quote was, the suspense is crushing me!

I can't see what the quote is! nooooooo my quote just says "snip>" which I don't remember saying... I don't often use the word "snip" at all.

THIS is exacty what I am trying to get at, I accept all the arguments that the system is basically flawed from the start by making those who stand to profit the ones who police and penalise the badmins, and in turn stand to lose out themselves, but it doesn't change the fact that this problem IS a big problem and needs a solution, or needs the community to lean on BI for that solution, or at least an aknowledgement that a solution is needed. The fact the game is in Alpha makes this problem even more serious, how can you effectively test a game for balance and mechanics when there is a portion of the players swinging that balance by breaking the rules. I feel like right now I'm effectively preaching to the choir, as nearly everyone who has responded here sees the problem, we may all have different opinions on how severe it is or what can or should be done about it, but we all see it. I find it very revealing that no one in a position to do anything about it has said anything. I love the game, and that is precisely why I feel so strongly about this. I'm sad that this thread will slowly die away, the mods here will, at some point have to close it down, because there is only so many times we can re-word or go over the same ground, and I fully understand that, but it means that once again this subject will be swept away out of sight, and the community will trundle on and allow yet another giant blow to the integrity of the game to go unanswered for.

So here is a side by side of two companies and how they differ in their approach to dealing with abuse Fragnet ***initial report*** at 3:39am (3-6) server on IP ???.???.???.???:??? has enabled a password and is un-enterable. ***reply - meber of staff*** at 4:20am (3-6) Hello, Thank You very much for the information provided. We've contacted the client. If he continues violating the rules we will suspend his services in the upcoming 4 hours until the password is removed. Kind Regards, So that was Fragnet, the user did re password his server and I wrote then again, they got back to me evrytime and told me what was happening, the user is now on their last warning and I have seen that they suspended his service numerous times throughout our communications. Next onto Gameservers ***initial report*** at 6:09pm (14-6) I have just been playing on server: ???.???.???.??:???? The server is named DayZ ????????????????????????? - Hosted by gameservers.com I was kicked out multiple times from the server, I then began recording my screen, so I have video proof of this activity if you require it, the file is quite large (84MB) but I could condense it if needs be. I don't know what the penalty is for this, but it is happening over and over and they are making sure it is only the two of them on the server, i would appreciate it if you could deal with this, please, and let me know it is in hand. If you need me to send you the file I would be glad, but i would suggest logging in to the server, you will almost defiantly be kicked within minutes. ***reply - autoresponce*** at 6:10pm (14-6) Dear Customer, A support ticket has been created in our system on your behalf. Here is the ticket summary: ?????????????? You can use this information to track the progress of your support ticket. If you did not request this support ticket, please contact [email protected] immediately. ~ The GameServers.com Team ~ Frag. Not Lag. ***second attempt*** at 8:39pm (14-6) Reference: ????????? Hello again, I'm just reporting that this problem is still happening, The server admin/admins are still kicking anyone who is not one of their friends. Is anyone looking into this and when can we expect it to be fixed? ***reply - autoresponce*** at 8:39pm (14-6) Your request has been updated ***third attempt*** at 2:33am (15-6) This server has not been dealt with, the client is still kicking everyone that enters... How long does it usually take for reports to be actioned? ***reply - autoresponce*** at 2:33am (15-6) *copy of message* ***reply - member of staff*** at 4:09am (15-6) Your request has been updated by ??????????? [staff]. Message Content: Hello, Thank you for your report. We investigate all DayZ abuse reports and take appropriate action if a server is found to be in violation of the hosting rules. Thanks, ?????????? ***fourth attempt*** at 4:50pm (15-6) This server is still operating a complete kick policy, everytime I enter I am kicked almost instantly, has anything been done yet? ***reply - autoresponce*** at 4:50pm (15-6) *copy of message*** I still have no resolution almost a day later Fragnet will most likely lose a customer through being a better GSP than Gameservers, now anyone who says it takes a long time to folow up reports has been proven wrong by the responce time of Fragnet, they do what they do well, so why can't Gameservers do the same thing? Someone needs to look at this... really. It's madness.

OK, so I just had a thought..... This would stop GSPs losing money by having to terminate contracts... How about if people are found to be abusing admin powers then their server is set to a default mode where they have suspended admin powers for a period of time, so they can not kick, restart, whatever, if found guilty of abusing the powers, then repeat offenders lose the powers for longer and longer periods of time. That seems like a system that would keep servers up, keep money coming in to the GSPs and only punish the people who are breaking the rules. They can argue that with no admin powers they wont be able to protect their servers against genuine threats, but a server with a few exploiters on is better than a server you can't even get on because of constant kicking. But, it does mean that BI still have to come down on the GSPs and ensure they are cracking down on this. the end result is that we are all suffering, the aplha testing is suffering and the reputation of the entire project will be marred by this, just like the mod was with hackers.

I agree whole heartedly Some people will say things like "it would cost too much" or "it would be too big a task" but frankly, that isn't our problem, it's up to them to take the measures needed, or at least that is how I see it.

Right now my main problem is finding servers that are called something like "for friends only, keep out or kick - hosted by twatnet.com" then when you go and check it out, you are immediately kicked, I was in three servers yesterday that were doing this, and I complained to all of the GSPs and got nothing back at all. Still nothing this morning... I just can't believe that there is no one else making noise about this, it's f##king ridiculous. It is undermining and destroying the whole concept of the game.

It would be nice if someone who had a bit of swing at least acknowledged the problem. Exactly, this would be part of the problem gone, and could be automated, a simple suspension of service until the name of the server at least conforms to the rules, though the problem of admins dishing out kicks to everyone who isn't their mate wont be easy to solve, it seems like the only way to really deal with it, since there is no official line on it, is to take community policing away from the DayZ site, but then there is a danger of things getting a little too "law in your own hands"

Such a frustrating issue. I might just recreate the thread over on Reddit and see what happens there, though I am sure I will get shot down by the exact people who do this sort of thing.

I completely see your point R.Neville, and I'd be annoyed too if I was running a server, but the question is, and has to be - What can be done about it? In the interests of trying to be constructive, I feel we have to at least have a few ideas to throw around to tighten up on this problem while we are still in one giant public hive, Although I think that removing completely the ability to password is a start (since it is against the rules right now) I don't think that removing admin tools is a good idea at all, why should everyone suffer because of the Badmins? Bear in mind all of these I'm throwing out there to be shot down, with the intention of maybe hitting on a couple of decent points... 1. Application process 2. Server name policies (to cut out certain words, phrases and so on) 3. a kick auto check system, something along the line of counting the amount of kicks per unique user on a server, so if you have two people on and everyone else gets kicked (say 80 unique players try to log in but are kicked) you have some idea that abuse is happening, if you have a server that has seen 140 unique players and only 6 have been kicked at some point, then it would seem that the server is not being protected by the admins from normal users. - if that makes sense... 4. BI start coming down harder on GSPs for not responding to abuse complaints (though... I have no idea how this could be enforced) 5. The community takes it upon it's self to begin policing this problem, but then this has it's own unique set of problems...

Well, it seems madness to just sit back and accept that's how it is, surely it's worth making a little noise about it, because essentially what's happening is that if you have the money, you can get an advantage over other players, which is exactly a situation the project has steered away from. I will say this, Fragnet, in my opinion, have been the stand-out amongst all of the GSPs I have dealt with so far, fast (most times I've seen them unlock serves in minutes), friendly, communicative (constant updates and replies to let you know it is in had or dealt with) and have dealt with the problems I have reported. PS - thank you, whoever changed the title for me...:)

Exactly, now don'T get me wrong here, I'm not pointing any fingers, but it seems that the people who are giving out bans and suspensions are the people that stand to benefit from not handing out thoses punishments at all. The system of reporting to GSPs is all well and good until they start shirking and then what do we do? now we have people who are getting away with playing on what are now essentially private servers, gearing up and going off into the public hive fully geared. A question I've wanted to ask: Why are the GSPs giving people the ability to password servers? But this doesn't answer the question of who is policing the GSPs? ...and how are they doing that? ...and who do we complain to when they don't do what they should be doing?

I love how how it seems that Kurt is applauding all of you comments with childish, if not slightly mentally challenged enthusiasm.

as an experiment I'd also be in, forget waiting though, there is no reason not to have a go right away, I think you would have to have some organisation, like anyone with a weapon (army, police) have to wear a certain type of top, like a press vest or a red coat or something, so if you see people with out that and a gun, you know you have to deal with them. then just post guards on various entry points of the intersection. I think Mooky should be the gov', though if we don't like his command we can request he steps down, I love the idea of a small society involving political takedowns and double crosses, on a non lethal level. people arguing over waning to expand, others pushing for more supply runs, the people that will make it work at any cost... those that go off on supply runs and perform unthinkable acts they would never reveal to the other townspeople.. partner 1 "these beans are lovely dear" partner 2 - drifts off into a flashback about murdering a friendly team of two chinese students for those beans - "yes dear... they are...nice" I really would love to see this happen, survival in numbers could be fun, stockpiling weapons and ammo, server choice would be fairly important.

As long as my player's face is blurred out, I don't have a problem with someone doing this...

There really isn't, most of the bigger buildings are modular anyway, so if you wanted to build something massive, you would just build it in various parts and put it together when you planned the level out, like the TV tower and some of the bigger factories and mills you see. The only limit as I understand it is the machines that will be playing the game, if you have great big buildings with lots of detail then it could cause some performance problems, but since I've seen how much detail in in the high rises I began to wonder just how serious a problem that really was.