Was the recent change in survivor's motivations affected by the community or Rocket?

[septuscap 42]

Community has to man up

I've seen people ferrying randoms around with buses. I've seen people trying to create safe cities to trade at or visit. Neither of these two people even had a clan afaik (makes it 10x harder to do).

Why don't you make a friendly clan? Or help with a project like this? Or make one?

Why don't you make a list of friendlies and coordinate pickup games. Maybe set an overarching goal a la CHKilroy's vids' date=' find 20+ friendlies, and go at it. (Sure there'll still be bandits, but as you've said, so their would be in a "real" environment). Maybe create some roleplay ruleset; weed out trolls that just joined the group so they'd know which server/time you were playing to follow/kill you, etc.

It's very telling that the people complaining have done NONE of the above; just run into the open yelling "FRIENDLY???" and then dying.

Edit: case in point

My experience is the same. In the span of around 3-5 days my play experience went from "Friendly?" and teaming up to getting shot without any effort being made to find out if I was aggressive or not.

rocket's t-shirt really does say it all. "ANYONE IN CHERNO???" He's mocking you idiots.

[Virfortis 111]

Community has to man up

I've seen people ferrying randoms around with buses. I've seen people trying to create safe cities to trade at or visit. Neither of these two people even had a clan afaik (makes it 10x harder to do).

Why don't you make a friendly clan? Or help with a project like this? Or make one?

Why don't you make a list of friendlies and coordinate pickup games. Maybe set an overarching goal a la CHKilroy's vids' date=' find 20+ friendlies, and go at it. (Sure there'll still be bandits, but as you've said, so their would be in a "real" environment). Maybe create some roleplay ruleset; weed out trolls that just joined the group so they'd know which server/time you were playing to follow/kill you, etc.

It's very telling that the people complaining have done NONE of the above; just run into the open yelling "FRIENDLY???" and then dying.

Edit: case in point

My experience is the same. In the span of around 3-5 days my play experience went from "Friendly?" and teaming up to getting shot without any effort being made to find out if I was aggressive or not.

rocket's t-shirt really does say it all. "ANYONE IN CHERNO???" He's mocking you idiots.

Because I do. You just don't see it because you're too busy on here looking for more ways to give cheap shots an advantage.

I'm running with a smaller group, we have Berenzino under a basic lockdown. Players that do not identify themselves are shot, and they are warned before they are shot.

That was, of course, until side chat was removed. Now all we have is a short-range direct chat that players ignore. We can't put up signs, have any rules, or do anything OTHER than shoot.

That's the core problem right there: DayZ is nothing but shooting. Whether at a zombie, player, or at random, the ONLY social interaction that CAN be had is shooting. Organizing safe zones, unlike reality, requires an inhumane amount of time and effort that takes away from a prime directive, much more than anyone with reasonable sense and the humanity to do so could manage. If someone was REALLY setting up a safe zone, that would be what mattered the most, and he wouldn't have to stop what he was doing and dissapear because his son wants to go play ball.

It's much easier to ghost into NW airfield and shoot people for lulz, and that's what's happening: Those with the moral standards are too busy taking care of their own real lives, while those without lives or moral standards do what they want all day.

[gizm0 96]

rocket's t-shirt really does say it all. "ANYONE IN CHERNO???" He's mocking you idiots.

and My sig mocks you idiots

[kilozombie 1]

Bottom line - is this a ZA game with pvp thrown in/allowed' date=' or is it a death match game with zombie obstacles?

I'm assuming Rocket has/will decide(d) and will drive it in that direction.

I'm hoping for a ZA game with co-op & pvp capabilities. There are a bazillion DM games out there, with much better engines.

[/quote']

Not the question.

Question is: what do you think caused an uprising in PVP behavior? Rocket or us?

[septuscap 42]

It's much easier to ghost into NW airfield and shoot people for lulz' date=' and that's what's happening: Those with the moral standards are too busy taking care of their own real lives, while those without lives or moral standards do what they want all day.

[/quote']

I've seen people make player-run cities in MMO's -- defending them gives just as much action as being a bandit. So you set up 3 people at berezino. WOW. GOOD FOR YOU. Did you try setting one up close enough to engage the guy in direct voice? No? Then you've put in less effort than most organized bandit clans, who are setting up tent cities and fighting other clans for vehicles/supplies.

Real life duties have nothing to do with it. I work 50 hour weeks on IC firmware, sometimes more. I still manage to organize a group of 5-10 players, keep them all geared, defend our tent city, etc. I coordinate with several other clans, and we raid numerous others. You haven't even tried to organize a pick-up game with friendly players. You fucking joke.

[gizm0 96]

It's much easier to ghost into NW airfield and shoot people for lulz' date=' and that's what's happening: Those with the moral standards are too busy taking care of their own real lives, while those without lives or moral standards do what they want all day.

[/quote']

I've seen people make player-run cities in MMO's -- defending them gives just as much action as being a bandit. So you set up 3 people at berezino. WOW. GOOD FOR YOU. Did you try setting one up close enough to engage the guy in direct voice? No? Then you've put in less effort than most organized bandit clans, who are setting up tent cities and fighting other clans for vehicles/supplies.

Real life duties have nothing to do with it. I work 50 hour weeks on IC firmware, sometimes more. I still manage to organize a group of 5-10 players, keep them all geared, defend our tent city, etc. I coordinate with several other clans, and we raid numerous others. You haven't even tried to organize a pick-up game with friendly players. You fucking joke.

What he was getting at is there are limited social tools, IE: signs,megaphones,radios, etc... as well as there is no way to set up safe zones that can stop ghosting.

a lot of the issues with setting up safe zones have been covered in this thread link.

[septuscap 42]

What he was getting at is there are limited social tools' date=' IE: signs,megaphones,radios, etc... as well as there is no way to set up safe zones that can stop ghosting.

a lot of the issues with setting up safe zones have been covered in this thread link.

That VictorM guy does not sound bright enough to pull this off tbh. But Any collection of friendly clans could.

Just make sure visitors keep their guns in their packs, and keep their distance from other visitors (no stealing from other people's backpacks). Have an official merchant on hand to handle escrow for trades. If bandits try to ghost into the city, kill them while they're at the load screen. If some one tries to pull a gun out of their pack, gun them down.

And nothing is stopping you from maintaining a list of friendlies and setting up pick-up games on specific servers. That would seriously tilt the ratio of survivors:bandits.

The hilarious part is that the bandits you cry for "ez moding" are putting in way more effort controlling the resources on any given server -- you guys are doing nothing but bitching and moaning.

[gizm0 96]

what we are bitching and moaning about is that the game has barely any thing besides the survival and pvp systems at the moment. Which is alright due to being alpha but it should be expected that more systems that give more and betters tools for players. Some of these system may allow making safe zones be easier to maintain and set up. I don't see any counter-argument for having systems in play that allow rebuilding, putting up signs, holstering weapons(not in bag but take longer to bring out and shoot.).

but we are obviously derailing the tread. I believe the changes in player behavior is that just players are taking the route that has less risks and better rewards. I would rather just make KOS behavior less rewarding than Mugging. However the "cunts" would say we are punishing them but it makes sense that some of the loot gets damaged or broken from the shots fired.

[nahholmes 0]

What he was getting at is there are limited social tools' date=' IE: signs,megaphones,radios, etc... as well as there is no way to set up safe zones that can stop ghosting.

a lot of the issues with setting up safe zones have been covered in this thread link.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11796

My personal take on the situation. Basically IMO there should be a Flag item that you can put down similar to a campfire that will make it impossible for players to spawn on the server within X meters of that spot. This lets player groups do things like occupy a castle and run a trading post out of it. They would still have to manage the issues of bandits raids, who to let in to the fort, and players pretending to be peaceful then getting inside and trying to kill people, all the normal stuff. It would just cut off the exploits that currently make this kind of thing more or less impossible.

[TheWaffen 0]

2 reason for the change in motivations

#1. I believe the increase in KOS and agressive pick-up has to do with veterans and their interaction with the kids that play this game.

Because as soon as youtube got a hold of DayZ kids started flooding in the gates because of the amazing feedback people were telling them.

For example say Kid 1 watches Video A about Dayz by somebody who does a let's play or something of the sort. He watches Video A because this person who made Video A does cool COD:MW3 videos and killfeeds and he likes those. So he watches the video and thinks it is kind of boring but the guy says he loves the game and it should be an auto-buy. So the kid does what any kid would do now-a-days go ask his parents if he can get it, they say yes, he gets it and starts playing. He figures out the basic controls so he is now out on the hunt for some zombie killing and head smashing. He walks up from the beach to elektro, finds, let's say an alice pack and a 1911(be it an hour to do so). Now since he has found a new gun and replaced the crappy makorov, he looks out to find a person he can play with. He then finds somebody, who he then asks, if they are friendly. This said player,call him player 1, responds with a reply of yes. So the kid is used to playing games where friendlies are easily recognizable and enemies are clearly defined. What he doesn't know is that this person is a bandit and with no direct way to tell friend from foe he will never know. So as the kid approaches, player 1 unloads into his head with a makorov mag, and loots his dead body of all of his hard earned things. Now Kid #1 is confused as to why player 1 killed him and continues to swear at him and call him names. He then respawns and decides he will just run through this time and try to find weapons and be semi-agressive and hostile to people he finds. This time he finds some weapons and runs into Player 2, this player being a veteran player who kills if he needs supplies or if it benefits him. So they are running through elektro and find a horde and they kill the horde, but after it player 2 realizes he only has 16 rounds left for his AK-74u and the kid has the same gun but the kid tells him he has 2 mag left. So then player 2 decides to shoot him in the back and take his stuff. The Kid is now dead for the second time by 2 "supposably" friendlies who killed him and took his stuff. So now the kid is trying to be rambo and runs through elektro guns blazing killing anybody he sees from then on out and trusts nobody.

Which is what leads me to my second reason, The Veterans

#2.The Veterans

Now veterans most likely have every single advantage you could think of, because they do. They have spent more time playing and have in exchange learned more and know how easily death can find you. I sat there and watched a guy on elektro's hospital's roof snipe 5 beaniebabies and to my horror he was doing it for shits 'N giggs, no looting of any sort. So the veterans are better equiped, have more experience, and are willing to do it just for fun because they have visited all of the places and think it is alot more entertaining to kill the new players then travel around from town to town.

To conclude what i think, i would say that kids are very impressionable and when they die so very often, they find no fun and learn to trust nobody. And that it all started because of the veterans who chose to be assholes and camp the SE spawn points and wait for newbs in elektro and cherno. So it was the community that caused the change.

I, myself am fine by this. In fact, i love the suspicion that is involved and trying to figure out friend or foe, or if i have to nail this guy in the back while he is turned around.....This is just alpha testing and the game will change, im sure that the moaning that is going on won't help very much and just make rocket pissed off and think we are all just a bunch of ungrateful children who complain for the slightist reason.

[gizm0 96]

Player 2 in your scenario is just a straight up cunt, I mean what was the down side to at least asking for a mag first? I mean the worst the kid would do is say no which than killing the kid would be the only option to get ammo.

[TheWaffen 0]

lol it is just a scenario, but it does happen, actually rather often too.

[gizm0 96]

I will be honest a similar scenario has happened to me, except we had Winchesters. instead of killing "the kid", I ask if he/she could spare a mag, they said no. And shoot me in the back as I went looking for some ammo. This has happened to me quite a lot when grouping with random players.

I still have yet to adopt the KOS playstyle because to me it seems anti social. And I'm already enough anti-social in real life :P. So it is the players who over time just give up and adopt the KOS playstyle... However thank god, I'm kind of annoying when it comes to adopting playstyles that don't feel natrual to me.

[TheWaffen 0]

that's good, i mean i am all into the bandit thing hehe, but....not overhauling it to the point where people start quitting and KOS instead of seeing if they are even friendly.

[gizm0 96]

that's good' date=' i mean i am all into the bandit thing hehe, but....not overhauling it to the point where people start quitting and KOS instead of seeing if they are even friendly.

[/quote']

exactly I mean, I have no problems with a bandit robbing or mugging me, or pretending to be friendly so when he gets a chance he can steal from my pack when i'm not paying attention.

I think the fact that killing gives the same results as mugging and robbing players but with less risk is why a lot more players overall have adopted the play style, as well as being proactive and killing to not be killed, which just leads to circle logic.

[godwine 2]

I would like zombies to play a bigger role, but currently they're just a nuisance compared to a trigger happy survivor with a makarov.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

It's cute how you said "mathematical" and then just followed it with a bunch of words.

Mathematical approach doesn't mean using numbers...

If you want numbers, here's an example:

Assumptions (if you don't like the numbers, make your own):

- 30% of players belongs to the killer/bandit category (those that normally will kill you, no matter what). They had bandit skins.

- 55% of players belongs to the survivor category (those ones that won't kill you, or would ignore you when on sight/meet). They had survivor skins.

- 15% of players are potential bandits. Usually they just spawned so they turned into bandits yet, but they will, so their behaviors is like the killers/bandit but they not have the bandit skin yet. This percentage will be diluited into the previous ones when the number of new players decreases.

Pre-Patch (with bandit skins):

- You normally do not approach a bandit skinned player unless you want to suicide. You have two options: a sure shot (being almost sure to kill him), or hide & ignore him until he's gone. So you removed 30% of chances to die from the equation;

- You are inclined to approach survivor skinned players (or at least to not engage a firefight), but 27% of them (15% of the total) are potential assassins, so you still have 27% chances of dying if you decide to meet em. 1/4 odds for certain ppl are enough to tempt an approach.

Times you save your life (meetings):

30%: because you avoid/kill bandits;

55%: because of friendly players;

TOTAL: 85% chances of surviving a meeting. 15% of chances of dying on approach because of bad luck (you meet a survivor skinned player that has the bandit soul.. :) ).

Post-Patch:

You don't know who you are approaching, it means that all the above percentages are merged together, so you have 45% of chances to die on every approach, that's almost 1/2, not enough for most ppl for an attempt (you're going to die half of the times!). The above percentages have also changed because those 55% people that were normally friendly pre-patch, now (because of the "bad odds") are shooting on sight as well.. so the chances to die are even more.

You can change the above numbers as you wish, but the equation will not change, and it says that with the bandit skin removal the game become less "social" and more "death-match".

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

snip

Honestly' date=' at this point I can't tell if you're even being serious, or just some kind of elaborate, silly troll.

When I say the truth lies in an analysis of the data through math, I'm talking about real things. Real data collected from real databases that accrue data on real players and their real actions in this real game we all really play. Like the sort that populates that cool stats box on the DayZ homepage. rocket doesn't just pull that shit out of his ass, you know?

I'm not asking you to yank a bunch of completely fabricated numbers out of your ass to support conclusions that you already came to on your own. That's not analysis. That's just making shit up.

I absolutely adore that you offer me the opportunity, if I dislike the conclusions that YOUR fake numbers illustrate, to "make my own" as if me inventing a bunch of completley fake numbers that have no tangible attachment to reality and comparing them to your list of completely fake numbers would somehow bring us closer to reaching a conclusion on the matter?

What kind of insane, numberless fantasyland do you live in where this is what you consider to be a fair application of statistics and math to a question? "Oh, statistics, I've heard of that. That's where you just kind of decide how you feel about something and then call that a number and then decide kind of how you feel about other things and call those numbers and them mash them all together to support your misguided preconceptions about a situation?"

No, no that's not what the fuck it is.

You remind me of a girl I knew in high school who once argued until she was blue in the face that you had a 50/50 chance of making every shot in basketball because you could either [i']make it or not make it. Two options. 50/50, right?

If that scares you, consider that your understanding of the value of statistics seems to be one step below hers.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

...lot of what?...

You don't need to undertand or believe the "numbers", because changing them won't change the sense. I make it easy for you to understand: a decision causing a consequence. Saying that "nothing has changed" is just being blind.

You remind me a of a kid i knewn at school, once i shown him something that he doesn't know, he keeps repeating: that's not possible and living into his ignorance, instead of trying to learn something new.