My argument for less damaging, less accurate guns

[patluk@sasktel.net 1]

Suggestion: Less accurate, less damaging (PVP) weapons.

Reasoning?: Authenticity, more protracted and exciting firefights.

Changes:

[Player] More spread and less accurate shots, introduce random placements of shots within a spread area over distance. This is not a reflection in change to the gun modelling, but to the person holding the gun.

[Guns] Less immediate trauma damage to player, damage mostly done by bleeding and blood loss.

PROS:

-Longer and more intense firefights

-Firefights that don't end with one shot

-More likely that an encounter will end with wounds and retreat, thereby resulting in a story/narrative for the player.

-Make players think even harder about engagements, since ammo is scarce and more would have to be fired.

-Possibility for bandits to have to track/hunt a survivor, perhaps introduce subtle blood trails for this purpose.

CONS:

-possible frustration for people who are looking for a Counterstrike-like experience

Argument:

There are several documented and televised exchanges of gunfire that do not necessarily result in death. In fact, due to panic, its fairly common for two people to empty a clip at each other from 30 feet away and no one getting hit. Most bullet wounds, unless they hit the heart or the head, do not necessarily result in immediate death, but then the victim eventually succumbs to internal bleeding or trauma, or some kind of complication.

It would be interesting, in my opinion, to have gunfights that don't just end in one shot executions. Have any of you shot a gun? I have, and it turns out I'm not very good at it. Hitting a target is very hard, hitting one accurately and lethally would be much more difficult. In the heat of the moment, with that much adrenaline going through a person, it would only make things even more difficult.

I envision a gunfights that starts with a miss, that results in both sides taking cover and exchanging shots, much like you see in a war torn part of the world on the news. These shots rarely hit their target, but the tension and uncertainty I think would translate to exciting times. Even if these things were just tweaked slightly, I think it would translate to a more authentic and generally terrifying experience.

Go ahead and shut me down, I would like to hear what the arguments are for super precise and accurate military-trained survivors.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Nope.

The guns in Arma2 mimic real life guns, Bis does ballistic test and shit.

why turn this in to a mainstream fuck up by ruining that.

[dogsbd 12]

Are you talking about making the existing guns less accurate or replacing them with less accurate weapons?

Real world weapons should match their real world performance as closely as the game engine will allow. IE don't make an M4/AKM/CZ550/Makarov/M1911 more or less accurate than it should be.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

If you play on veteran servers it's already pretty hard to aim at anyone while also saving your own life by staying in movement.

And if you are are 10 meters from a hostile guy you deserve to die, arma is designed for infantry engagements at 100-300 meters, not for close quarter combat. Close quarter combat is DANGEROUS for a reason.

[patluk@sasktel.net 1]

I'm not talking about the weapons themselves, but the people holding them. An M4 is only as accurate as the person firing it, and making it laser precise 100% to the weapon's modelling is kind of silly to me. I have edited my original post to make this clearer.

[frankhertz 2]

Maybe we can just find Kevlar instead...

The combat compliments careful patience and awareness. If you get dropped by a shot out of nowhere, its your fault. If your going to be obvious, serpentine.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I'm not talking about the weapons themselves' date=' but the people holding them. An M4 is only as accurate as the person firing it, and making it laser precise 100% to the weapon's modelling is kind of silly to me. I have edited my original post to make this clearer.

[/quote']

Say's it's not about the gun, complains about the gun being a "laser"

even through it isn't, 7.62x39 (AKM round) drops about 70 inches at 350m

laser precise I think not.

[patluk@sasktel.net 1]

I'm not talking about the weapons themselves' date=' but the people holding them. An M4 is only as accurate as the person firing it, and making it laser precise 100% to the weapon's modelling is kind of silly to me. I have edited my original post to make this clearer.

[/quote']

Say's it's not about the gun, complains about the gun being a "laser"

even through it isn't, 7.62x39 (AKM round) drops about 70 inches at 350m

laser precise I think not.

I'm not sure how I could be any clearer. I'm not saying the gun is inaccurate or too accurate or a laser. I'm saying the PERSON FIRING IT would most likely miss. Even with extended military training you can't be 100% effective to the gun's limits.

[A Man Named GOB 1]

This is like the opposite of autoaim. I want my bullets to go where I place them. If I miss because I miscalculated bullet drop or didnt take my time to aim, I want it to be on me. I dont want the game to randomly decide where my bullets will hit.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I'm not talking about the weapons themselves' date=' but the people holding them. An M4 is only as accurate as the person firing it, and making it laser precise 100% to the weapon's modelling is kind of silly to me. I have edited my original post to make this clearer.

[/quote']

Say's it's not about the gun, complains about the gun being a "laser"

even through it isn't, 7.62x39 (AKM round) drops about 70 inches at 350m

laser precise I think not.

I'm not sure how I could be any clearer. I'm not saying the gun is inaccurate or too accurate or a laser. I'm saying the PERSON FIRING IT would most likely miss. Even with extended military training you can't be 100% effective to the gun's limits.

Yeah, a 300m shot is quite hard, but most of the confrontations in DayZ are with in 100m due to the lack of scoped rifles. a 100m shot isn't as hard as you're making it out to be.

if there is one thing bis did right, it's the rifles and dynamics of the firefights.

[Dinnj 4]

I'm not sure how I could be any clearer. I'm not saying the gun is inaccurate or too accurate or a laser. I'm saying the PERSON FIRING IT would most likely miss. Even with extended military training you can't be 100% effective to the gun's limits.

So you are saying the sights should come out of alignment randomly to allow for human variables? If the actual change was to make the guns less accurate just to imply human inaccuracy, I'd probably just stop playing. Nothing screams immersion breaking like pointing a modern assault rifle at someone, firing, and missing at like 100m.

Guns are as accurate for all players, some players are definitely, definitely, better shots than others. Variation already exists. It is not hard to aim a gun. Maybe a small amount more sway to make 300m+ crack shots more difficult, but anything more than that and I'll disagree.

[patluk@sasktel.net 1]

Well if not the less accurate, what about less immediate damage? Seems that everyone wants to have a Battlefield or Call-of-Duty like accuracy from their survivor, but what about putting a few bullets in someone and not getting an immediate kill.

I know this happens already, I'm just saying a tweak here and there would make things more uncertain and exciting. Overall I just think people should be less lethal because they are people, not an elite navy seal commando superman.

Obviously my idea is not very popular :(.

[Dinnj 4]

That's the sorcery of modern weaponry though, and why guns are so dangerous. It doesn't matter if that .45 ACP impacting your heart was fired by an elite navy seal or your 6 year old playing with your gun because he thinks it's a toy. Physics is going to treat that bullet the same

way. I think all reducing damage would do is make the game far less realistic and ultimately frustrating. I'm sure people know how unrealistically hard it is to kill people with a Mak..

[patluk@sasktel.net 1]

I don't think gunshot wounds are as hollywood as people think they are. I don't think people just drop dead instantly like in an old west movie. Its an ugly process where the trauma causes all kinds of internal hemmoraging, low blood pressure turns to shock, etc. I'm not trying to say that a .45 ACP suddenly loses force because it's fired by a lesser person, but that a bullet wound fired by anyone wouldn't necessarily cause immediate and convenient death. But since I'm getting completely stampeded with my suggestion that PVP should be "harder", I guess I'll drop it :P

[A Man Named GOB 1]

When you run then stop to fire, the game already makes you less accurate while you are breathing hard. The only way to be extremely accurate in the game is to stand still or go prone... I dont think we need any more game mechanics that affect accuracy. Also weapon damage feels pretty good to me. If anything getting shot even once in a non critical place should affect your ability to return fire. I guarantee that even being shot by a 22lr would fuck you up.

[#BASEDGOD 27]

Have any of you shot a weapon in real life?

Anyone?

Hello?

Why would you take realistic weapons and make them LESS realistic? When you get shot in real life, you screen doesn't go red until you find some cover and wait 20 seconds. Depending on how far you are from the shooter, the bullet's energy and where you are hit all factor in if you're going to die or just end up wounded.

When you get rocked by a CZ550 from 500 yards, you're a dead man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_550

The CZ550 is designed for big game. This means you are dead if you're on the receiving end. In DayZ it's chambered for this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9.3x62mm

Shooting is not nearly hard as some people make it out to be. This isn't CoD or BF3 where you are running and gunning. If you can't move correctly to avoid shitty positioning where you open yourself up to snipers or gunfire, you deserve to die.

Go look up some small unit tactics on youtube using VBS2 or go read some books on infantry tactics.

[psycho84 0]

There has been some popular mods for Operation Flashpoint and the ArmA series genrally called HD Weapon Packs. The HD stands for High Dispersion. In practice they acted just as you described. The firefights were epic and to destroy the enemy you had to use more tactics then just uber gamer hand eye coordination.

That being said, the accurate shots in DayZ are most likely coming from someone who is laying in wait and has steadied their aim.

I dunno, I've mentioned this in other games (WWIIOL) and people raged as they thought the only inaccuracy acceptable in games is their hand on the mouse even if it makes for unrealistically precise firefights. Not sure it would fly here.

[patluk@sasktel.net 1]

Have any of you shot a weapon in real life?

Anyone?

Hello?

Why would you take realistic weapons and make them LESS realistic? When you get shot in real life' date=' you screen doesn't go red until you find some cover and wait 20 seconds. Depending on how far you are from the shooter, the bullet's energy and where you are hit all factor in if you're going to die or just end up wounded.

When you get rocked by a CZ550 from 500 yards, you're a dead man.

[url']http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_550

The CZ550 is designed for big game. This means you are dead if you're on the receiving end. In DayZ it's chambered for this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9.3x62mm

Shooting is not nearly hard as some people make it out to be. This isn't CoD or BF3 where you are running and gunning. If you can't move correctly to avoid shitty positioning where you open yourself up to snipers or gunfire, you deserve to die.

Go look up some small unit tactics on youtube using VBS2 or go read some books on infantry tactics.

I absolutely agree, a hunting rifle bug game round would destroy someone. And yes, I've fired many guns. Even with a scoped rifle like this, I would probably never hit a man-sized target from 500 yards on the first shot unless I was really lucky. But I admit I'm not a very good shot in real life. Shooting isn't like it is in a video game, you don't just put the crosshairs on and the gun does everything for you. Just by pulling the trigger, you can skew the shot in any number of directions very easily. You have to be a machine to be as accurate as the bullet is out of the barrel.

Have you seen how far 500 yards is? Have you pointed a gun down a range and SEEN how far that is? 200 yards is a really daunting shot, I don't think I've even seen a range that went 500 yards in my neck of the woods.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Well if not the less accurate' date=' what about less immediate damage? Seems that everyone wants to have a Battlefield or Call-of-Duty like accuracy from their survivor, but what about putting a few bullets in someone and not getting an immediate kill.

I know this happens already, I'm just saying a tweak here and there would make things more uncertain and exciting. Overall I just think people should be less lethal because they are people, not an elite navy seal commando superman.

Obviously my idea is not very popular :(.

[/quote']

Well from a realistic standpoint you won't drop dead, but you will most certainly drop.

[Strongarm Steve 1]

No, the Arma 2 gunplay is good.

[deepfried 95]

sorry OP this is a stupid idea. Go play COD if thats what you want.

[steakjohnson 0]

OP This is not a stupid idea, it is quite an excellent idea.

Perhaps hunger should have adverse effects on accuracy.

[punisher_1 3]

News flash

Thats the real world, no fucking way do i want another BF3 where I have to shoot someone 15 times before they drop or the totally unrealistic gameplay.

Here's the next best thing BODY ARMOR ( chest, legs and arms, helmet for head

You can take a few hits to the main body maybe legs and arms.

Lets you deal with a mistake maybe keeps you in the fight but allows your forgivness for dumb mistakes or ambush bandit tactics.

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

Just make everyone use ironsights like on hardcore servers.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

forgot, new flash, weapons in arma are not lasers they have drop, and take a while to arrive on target.