Re: Spawning without a Weapon - Reality Check

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I don't get why people don't want to make this game more difficult. It's not making the game impossible or extremely hard. It's inconveniencing us a bit for fun. It is fun to place yourself under harsh conditions and inconvenient situations.

I'm fine with difficulty when it takes the form of interesting challenges, not simply frustrating tedium. Why not start with nothing, half blood, no food/water and a low body temperature? All of that would certainly make the game "more difficult," right? Well, yeah, but it would also be a ridiculous pain in the ass.

I want interesting challenges. Things that challenge me mentally and socially. Pit me against other players. Force me into situations that require cooperation - perhaps even with those I don't trust.

Don't just throw me into a pile of neck-deep shit and say "Look how he struggles! Isn't it challenging and exciting?"

No, no it isn't.

[Liixe 0]

The majority is YES? :huh:

[rmackner 0]

I don't get why people don't want to make this game more difficult. It's not making the game impossible or extremely hard. It's inconveniencing us a bit for fun. It is fun to place yourself under harsh conditions and inconvenient situations.

I think the game is fine the way it is (other then bugs). It just needs content and lore.

[Teleporter 0]

This is a great idea. I'm sick of all the assholes running around and killing me with the starter pistol, Makarov.

Believe me, I've been killed 6 goddamn times by a newbie on sight. I'm shocked at how stupid people can be.

[rmackner 0]

This is a great idea. I'm sick of all the assholes running around and killing me with the starter pistol' date=' Makarov.

Believe me, I've been killed 6 goddamn times by a newbie on sight. I'm shocked at how stupid people can be.

[/quote']

Stay away from the beach? They only thing this would fix is the deathmatch on some servers from new spawns.

[el mariachi 10]

(i have no idea at all why a MILITARY SIMULATOR does not have melee in the first place)

Because its a military simulator based on the present, not a military simulator based on the roman empire.

[rmackner 0]

(i have no idea at all why a MILITARY SIMULATOR does not have melee in the first place)

Because its a military simulator based on the present' date=' not a military simulator based on the roman empire.

[/quote']

So they don't teach you hand to hand combat in the military anymore?

[drayson 158]

I'm all for not spawning with a hand gun especially now that we can escape the infected. When I respawn the first 15 minutes are not all that important as I am in a hurry to find something useful. I don't really fear for my life or take things carefully until I find something I want to keep. This would force me to be more careful unless I want to waist time running off the infected.

[rmackner 0]

I'm all for not spawning with a hand gun especially now that we can escape the infected. When I respawn the first 15 minutes are not all that important as I am in a hurry to find something useful. I don't really fear for my life or take things carefully until I find something I want to keep. This would force me to be more careful unless I want to waist time running off the infected.

So add a pointless 20 minute time sink to find a weapon? I don't even get how this makes the game harder in anyway other then just a time sink. Do you ever roll in the first town you loot shooting every zombie or sneak in? Pointless time sink. This will only fix the beach deathmatch on some servers and spawning with less ammo will fix that.

[Zakificus 10]

The community seems pretty divided on this from what I've seen between multiple threads. I think a huge portion of this argument can be solved by just doing it.

This is the alpha stage, this is the time for testing, finding what works and what doesn't. There is absolutely no reason Rocket can't take out all the guns and:

A) It works, coastal banditry dies down, people are happier. Starter guns stay out.

B) It fails, coastal banditry rises exponentially, people freak out. Starter guns added back in.

The absolute worst thing that could happen from this is a few weeks of experimental gameplay.

[Sarcasmo 2]

Camping the beaches won't be an issue. The map is enormous. You could take a full 50 person server, line up the other 49 people along the beach at regular intervals, and still have plenty of room to run without them shooting you. And let's face it, most people have better things to do than sit for hours waiting for a can of beans to roll up.

[rmackner 0]

The community seems pretty divided on this from what I've seen between multiple threads. I think a huge portion of this argument can be solved by just doing it.

This is the alpha stage' date=' this is the time for testing, finding what works and what doesn't. There is absolutely no reason Rocket can't take out all the guns and:

A) It works, coastal banditry dies down, people are happier. Starter guns stay out.

B) It fails, coastal banditry rises exponentially, people freak out. Starter guns added back in.

The absolute worst thing that could happen from this is a few weeks of experimental gameplay.

[/quote']

It's pointless when you can just run 10 minutes to a town then server hop farming gear.. They have way more things to fix than to be working on this.

[aposky 20]

My 3 cents on spawning with no weapon:

DayZ is a zombie apocalypse **survival** game. Currently when player respawns he is fully equipped, with decent supplies of medicines, food, water and also has enough firepower to start a small war with zombies or other players.

New player in this situation doesn't need to worrying about survival element of the game - he has everything to live.

With removal of weapon on respawn (and I hope supplies will be reduced too), player will be encouraged to start thinking about getting food, water and other basic equipment to **survive**. His first thoughts will change from "I have a gun, lets shoot somebody!" to "I need stuff to survive", "I need to find some food or I starve to death", etc.

That's what survival is about, shooting suppose to be last resort to think about during zombie apocalypse.

This solution is exciting, makes game more interesting and realistic. It makes DayZ even more different and original than tons of casual/mainstream zombie shooters like Left 4 Dead, Killing Floor, Dead Island, Nation Red etc - those game are about killing zombies, and DayZ is about surviving.

ps. I'm not against PvP or killing zombies/players. Player should have a valid reason to pull a trigger.

[rmackner 0]

Also this will only effect new players to the game. Anyone who is smart will hide a tent and stock rare gear. So sure lets just push a pointless time sink onto new customers for no reason other then the lulz.

---

My 3 cents on spawning with no weapon:

DayZ is a zombie apocalypse **survival** game. Currently when player respawns he is fully equipped' date=' with decent supplies of medicines, food, water and also has enough firepower to start a small war with zombies or other players.

New player in this situation doesn't need to worrying about survival element of the game - he has everything to live.

With removal of weapon on respawn (and I hope supplies will be reduced too), player will be encouraged to start thinking about getting food, water and other basic equipment to **survive**. His first thoughts will change from "I have a gun, lets shoot somebody!" to "I need stuff to survive", "I need to find some food or I starve to death", etc.

That's what survival is about, shooting suppose to be last resort to think about during zombie apocalypse.

This solution is exciting, makes game more interesting and realistic. It makes DayZ even more different and original than tons of casual/mainstream zombie shooters like Left 4 Dead, Killing Floor, Dead Island, Nation Red etc - those game are about killing zombies, and DayZ is about surviving.

ps. I'm not against PvP or killing zombies/players. Player should have a valid reason to pull a trigger.

[/quote']

Because starting with 2-3 hours of supplies to get some time to learn the game is really OP.

[Sarcasmo 2]

Also, I tried this last night. I ditched ALL of my gear upon respawn except for one bandage. (Whoever found my little pile of stuff on the beach, you're welcome.)

It certainly made things more intense. Interestingly I had more of an immediate inclination to find food and water than a gun, because I knew in my mind that the counters were ticking down, and that I would eventually die without resetting them. On the other hand you can theoretically survive forever without a weapon.

And I was obviously far more inclined to use stealth and observation when moving, which lent itself to the overall feel of survival. Personally I thought the experience was awesome, and it is unrivaled in any other product on the market (that I know of). I will probably play that way exclusively from now on.

[rmackner 0]

Also' date=' I tried this last night. I ditched ALL of my gear upon respawn except for one bandage. (Whoever found my little pile of stuff on the beach, you're welcome.)

It certainly made things more intense. Interestingly I had more of an immediate inclination to find food and water than a gun, because I knew in my mind that the counters were ticking down, and that I would eventually die without resetting them. On the other hand you can theoretically survive forever without a weapon.

And I was obviously far more inclined to use stealth and observation when moving, which lent itself to the overall feel of survival. Personally I thought the experience was awesome, and it is unrivaled in any other product on the market (that I know of). I will probably play that way exclusively from now on.

[/quote']

GL with that lol. Zombies aggro range is being increased but effected by los gonna be way harder to do that now. So soon as you grab aggro ESC then restart.

[sunnz 24]

HOW ABOUT DONT HAVE THE BLOODY spawns ONLY the coast? and have them spread out through the whole bloody map, that IMO would fix this bandit spawn killing, more interactions can be done between players in the north end of the own and make it more entertaining.

[aposky 20]

GL with that lol. Zombies aggro range is being increased but effected by los gonna be way harder to do that now. So soon as you grab aggro ESC then restart.

Not really.

* [NEW] You can hide from an infected chasing you

* [NEW] Player body exists for five seconds after disconnect

from http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10353

[MrBloodworth 1]

This is a bad idea. Its already been tested, in the 1000's of "hardcore" games that no one plays.

All this is, is more Sheep/wolf ideas. They do not work.

[rmackner 0]

GL with that lol. Zombies aggro range is being increased but effected by los gonna be way harder to do that now. So soon as you grab aggro ESC then restart.

Not really.

* [NEW] You can hide from an infected chasing you

* [NEW] Player body exists for five seconds after disconnect

from http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10353

We don't even know how the hiding works yet lol.

---

This is a bad idea. Its already been tested' date=' in the 1000's of "hardcore" games that no one plays.

All this is, is more Sheep/wolf ideas. They do not work.

[/quote']

Pretty much this..

All you need is a tent full of gear and this game is crazy easy. So let's make your first few days of play time super hardcore to balance how easy it gets when you get storage haha.

[WilkyWilks 44]

I don't care as much about getting spawned camp at the coast. It's a valid concern though' date=' and I can see people doing it just to be spiteful.

Personally I look at it another way. The makarov is a crap ass weapon that everyone learns that is a weapon as a last resort. Now someone wants to take that away. I think its stupid. It's like rocket learned the wrong lesson about Chekov's Gun.

I also think that the people who think this game should be 'harder' are misguided.

[b']You are all mistaking difficulty for gameplay.

Meaning that you think by making the game more difficult, it gives you more things to do.

Wrong.

It just makes it so it takes longer to sneak around zombies to find beans.

So, the problem isn't the game being 'too easy', its you.

There's one of two things that you're doing wrong:

1. You aren't taking any risks in the game to accomplish anything other than finding beans and/or living.

If you're just going to rinse/repeat that a billion times, of course you'd think the game is too easy because you aren't doing a damned thing at all in the game.

2. You think that by making it more difficult, it will make the game better.

Making zombies more difficult just makes the zombies more difficult, at the end of the day you're still just doing the same things. Taking away items and weapons just makes it take longer to get items and weapons. You aren't doing anything new, and nothing new has been added to the game. It just gives you more things to manage instead of doing things in the game.

Personally, I want to do things in this game. Focusing on the survival aspect of this game will be its death knell. It's one thing to have survival as a part of the game, its another thing to make it entirely the game.

This is not a game. This is a survival sim. I do not know many people who have handguns and morphine readily available at their home. In addition, assuming that all the other players are trying to artificially increase the difficulty of the game through removing equipment at the start denotes two things:

-You assume other players take no risks, but if they took no risks and "did nothing", would they not consider the current state of the game considerably challenging?

-Your goal of "doing things" in the game is, due to it being a resource gathering sandbox sim with combat, means many different things to many different people.

This is a discussion about one of the core items that EVERY player experiences. Rather than present pros and cons, you presented only how your style of approaching this sim was worthwhile, and that any other opinions are irrelevant, as they are not in line with you wanting to "do things". I have no idea what your goals are, but I prefer to stay alive as long as possible, which is hard enough after 2 weeks when you still go into hotzones every time you log in to pilfer more ammo.

The difficulty of the sim levels out VERY fast once you are knowledgeable about the mechanics. Oh, I died? I'll just sprint back to the north to my tent and snag another m4a1 cco that I have stockpiled from being alive for weeks. I don't have to worry about death at all if I please!

This alteration to the starting equipment forces players to avoid zombies more than just run and gun them as is the approach now. I feel it benefits the player to be afraid from the getgo than already be striving for their tent city empire at devil's castle.

[jk_scowling 44]

We should try no bag and gun at spawn. People will value their lives more when they get hold of a gun and bag.

Will make for some good play of sneaking around trying not to get wasted by bandits and shitting yourself, then the YES! moment of finding a pistol. Some good stories will result.

[Ahris 6]

The beginning of every character's story is the same: You wake up on a beach with no idea of where you came from besides that you came from the sea...and if you'd been swimming you'd have drowned carrying all the stuff you currently start with. Swimming with clothes on at all is hard enough.

The only likely item to carry at start besides clothes is a watch really but it would probably be broken because of water damage.

Starting at the beach also implies that you survived BECAUSE you were at sea when the apocalypse started so i wouldn't want inland spawn points, a more even distribution along the whole coastline would be nice though and would mean less instant access to military gear in the south.

Some argue that they have guns at home irl, well the vast majority don't and the beach isn't 'home'. I also think/hope that they don't carry those guns with them whenever they leave home. Guns can still be found in houses/homes and always have in DayZ but never on zombies (people) so it just doesn't make sense that players start armed to the teeth with full hiking gear, medical supplies and flares. And...they would have drowned.

Zombies can ALWAYS be avoided with awareness and patience, if AI awareness is increased you stay out of sight, walk slower or go prone. It's that simple.

Getting rid of starting gear would make it harder for anyone to run to any stash to gear up instantly after respawn. But i don't think stashes are much of an issue, bandits wouldn't get any benefit at all from hunting the beaches and would be busy scavenging themselves for survival if they want to hang around those areas.

As far as hackers and server hoppers are concerned...well they will be there regardless and are a separate issue. They shouldn't be part of this equation.

The more you have to work for your gear the, more rewarding it will be to get it.

As it is now i usually have an ALICE pack full of 9mm and STANAG/AKM ammo relatively quickly after spawn and on the lookout for an assault rifle and a glock before i even have to think about survival.

I'd actually prefer the military stuff to be much more rare and have winchesters, lee enfields and .45 pistols be what the majority of players use.

[relentless@clear.net.nz 12]

I still think the best middle ground is to start with the mak that has 8 bullets and you get no clips. Once you fire those 8 bullets thats it.

People will be far less inclined to kill others if they only have 8 bullets and know that they won't get any clips from the people they kill plus any gun they get from them is likely to only have 2 or 3 bullets left.

This would let you kill up to 8 infected which is enough to survive most initial accidental agro scenarios.

[The Toolman (DayZ) 0]

funny so many people play a comuter game and then want a "reality check". in a reality check you should at the very first start to ask yourself about whe the hell do they give us beans to eat when zombies get so much attracted by sound. i see a player going prone while he is sneaking between zombies... and then the beans do what beans often do in your body.. muahaha.... well, maybe the smell will kill the zombies but i bet they do not even smell better.... really, you can be sure farting in a zombiehorde will give you a more or less much more serious problem then.

so people, please never compare a computer game with reality or would here anyone of us still run all the time through a forest kilometer after kilometer? sorry, i could not even run on a street for such long time.

and who of you all want to live in a zombieapocalypse? it's fun in a computer game, but honestly ... in the real world i would go into suicide! such or a post nuclear world is cool and fun in games, but if you spend just a few seconds to think about it, it would be never worth to live in such real scenario.... (and got killed for beans... hahaha)

but back to the topic and to previous posts here. i still wonder why so many people always say, they will be killed for beans and water. i am now for just 2 weeks in the game and must say, it's so easy to surwive with the right tools. as i said in other threads before ... i am absolutely bored by getting my stuff after i got killed. as startup gear i need no weapons bandages or beans .... i just want a compass, matches, a watch (which is just nice, but not important when you get a compass), a knife and a hatchet.

it's so boring to search for these things all over again and again.. but if you just got these 4 or 5 things it's really easy to surwive ... because it's easy to find weapons everywhere.

and after logged in a server last time and spawned exactly with just these things on me (compass, matches and so on) but without any weapon or other stuff i know it is possible to surwive even in a horde of zombies... it's just necessary not to fart while you are sneaking between them .. and if it happens, pray it's a silent (silent but deadly) one ... hahaha. and again.. if it happens.. don't shout .. "god it stinks here" ... and you get the zombies anyway. by the way... when i lost all my weapons i lost a sniper rifle with night vision which i found in a heli crash site .. i did not use the rifle for one time because it was useless at daytime! but i'm a little sad about i lost it... it was the first time i had a sniper at all.

well, to come to an end, it's good it's a game ... the cherno coast would be hidden in a green fog if all surwiving people there would just eat beans. just fire one singe match and the zombieproblem is just in fire - as the people living there!