Concerning "Hating Bandits"

[gambles 234]

Well I've seen a lot of threads lately about Bandits telling there dastardly and then survivors telling them they are despicable, then in return getting flak because it's "only a game".

Both sides are right actually, but there is a line which crosses banditry and goes right into just being a dick.

At first I was going to post this in the bandit forum. But having not posted there yet, and suspecting that it would be largely ignored and I figure bandits who want a hero's/survivors advice and or comments would come here anyway, and they'd be the ones most likely to listen to my point of view.

Anyway, I think I speak for a good majority of us hero's/survivors when I say we don't hate all bandits. Most of us understand that banditry is a necessary part of the game that adds a great level of suspense, which the game just wouldn't be the same without. The problem is the way some go about banditry is what so many of us have a problem with.

When you choose to make a friend on teamspeak, essentially befriend them outside of the game all together even going as far as to play with them for multiple days. Then you come on here and tell us how you pretty much took advantage of an out-of-game friendship to just piss them off or for some virtual items, well, that can rub people the wrong way and rightly so. You have effectively crossed the line, you took what should be a persona you are playing in a game (assuming you're not an asshole in real life) and put it into a real world to betray someone who could have genuinely considered you a friend for the effort that you both put in.

Then there are the griefers. Banditry makes sense in a game like this because it is about survival. You do what you have to, to survive. That means you prey on others to survive, you are the predator, the monster under the bed of every survivor in game. And myself and most others thank you for this, you playing this way gives us something to fear in this game once we have mastered escaping the dreaded Jamie Hyneman zombies, and you're role within the game makes sense, you're choosing to survive the way you want to and no one can tell you different.

However... There are many bandits out there who don't kill for gear, or the thrill, or competition. These guys shoot new spawns on the beach and outside of Cherno/Electro when it gives them nothing in return. Not a thing but the satisfaction of ruining someone else's gaming experience. This is again where it crosses that line from playing a persona in game, you went from killing to get satisfaction from progression and survival in game to killing to piss the guy off behind the computer screen, and when that makes you happy or glad, to make another angry, that will rub a lot of people the wrong way. I'm sure decent bandits and survivors alike.

I know I haven't spoken for everyone here, but I think that a lot of us believe this is the case. We don't hate YOU for being a bandit. We just hate it when such a majority of you take it too far. When you begin to get enjoyment out of making other people upset or ruining there experience, people have the right to say "Hey man, you're kind of a dick for doing that" because doing something for the enjoyment of upsetting them is really an a-hole move.

So to all of you Bandits out there, who play the game like bandits. Thanks, much appreciated. To the other guys, well you know what you are.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Gambles

[TheDesigner 1197]

I'd like to disagree with you here. We don't need bandits, that's so ridiculous. 90% of the people who play this game are essentially "shoot on sight", techically a bandit. We need survivors/heroes, the ones who make the gameplay unique, and not just "Oh hey there's a guy *shootout* " I like the sub-categories that you tried to create, acting as if all bandits are unique. Bullshit, calling that right away. No bandit I have ever met, ever, has been unique. They all shoot without saying anything and alt-f4 when they recieve fire, swear to god. Every single time, alt-f4. Now of course there are videos on YouTube of "unique" bandits, but that's just footage they show you.

Seriously, we don't need bandits, we need heroes...

[major_sheep 3]

I hear ya. I only have been seen as a bandit by killing in self-defense. That line to being a dick is only when it is just for fun, when someone has all the gear they need and just kill survivors without any gear. Banditry is for low-level players that see a "crime" being committed. I agree with you completely.

[gambles 234]

I'd like to disagree with you here. We don't need bandits, that's so ridiculous. 90% of the people who play this game are essentially "shoot on sight", techically a bandit. We need survivors/heroes, the ones who make the gameplay unique, and not just "Oh hey there's a guy *shootout* " I like the sub-categories that you tried to create, acting as if all bandits are unique. Bullshit, calling that right away. No bandit I have ever met, ever, has been unique. They all shoot without saying anything and alt-f4 when they recieve fire, swear to god. Every single time, alt-f4. Now of course there are videos on YouTube of "unique" bandits, but that's just footage they show you.

Seriously, we don't need bandits, we need heroes...

Well I did kind of specify that a majority of them do what you say. But I have, in my time. Come across bandits who didn't bother shooting unarmed players and didn't alt-f4. I absolutely agree with you though, they are a rarity, I guess I'd just like to think that more of them exist than the few I have encountered.

Edit: Also I play as a hero and I VERY MUCH agree the game needs more hero's and medics that don't shoot on sight. But with many bandits playing the way they do, I believe survivors think they have been backed into a corner and it's either shoot first or die.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Gambles

[Skat3rat 1633]

I agree with you. I don't mind the bandits who kill for the gear or something. I don't like the bandits who kill just for the hell of it.

[herrjon 478]

I agree not all bandits are bad, nor do I hate the majority of them, but I can tell you though I'm more inclined to attack a bandit than a survivor. I do attempt to fill the Hero role, being a medic, and will even risk my life to save some random survivor, but I don't expect everyone to do that. There needs to be good and bad for things to be interesting, at least until zeds actually become a threat.

I did just have a "noble bandit" encounter on Lingor. I overheard some guys talking over direct. I had spawned 5 min ago, but got lucky at a military area and had an M4A1 on me, and a M24 in my pack. I still wanted to go see the hotel (first time being in one), so I stash my M4A1 in the ladder room, declare myself as a friendly and see what happens. They see all I have is a M1911 and just say to point at the ground as I pass by them on the stairs. I of course made the mistake of picking up my M4A1 on my way out. They must've noticed this and sniped me on my way out.

[CM LEGION 29]

And this is why ill still be continuing to kill new spawns, bandit scarf? guilt free kill! Its a game persona like you said.

[narsil1 24]

After 2 months of intensive DayZ play, I am still waiting to encounter a bandit that doesn't ALT-F4 (apart of those who get an AS50 NATO round to the face).

So, there might be a fine line between being a bandit and being a dick, but the line ceases to exist because they are all cowards that start a fight and then run.

[AnnieGYG 32]

In my opinion there's a difference between KoS and PvP.

There are proper honourable bandits out there that hunt, thrilling in the chase, pitting their wits agaisnt other geared survivors - unfortunatly the dick KoS Bambi hunters who alt-F4 when shot give the real "bandit players" a bad name. Then there's those in the middle crowd who always intended to play with honour (bandit or survivor) that keep getting KoS by dicks as new spawns over and over and over and over so they naturally end up KoS mentailty and it's a vicious circle.

Best PvP battle I had was 4 of us went to Stary, 2 enemies come down over sniper hill, one of us gets shot, we kill the other. Then a group of 3 arrived in a vehicle from the south. 2 of us are doing over supermarket and church while the other ones at the tents. He takes down one of this new group before getting shot while the 2 of us back off into the surrounding fields to get a good view on the place. I can see one guy at the tents looting our teamie so we shoot him but come under sniper fire from the last vehicle guy. I spot him with L85 in the top level of the big red barn and he gets killed by someone else on sniper hill.

Then as if that wasn't enough a helo comes in from the north and I'm in the only bush in the middle of a field and he's over me, possible screaming at the gunner to shoot me but the gunner can't see me. Then the mysterious guy on sniper hill starts having a go at the helo so it pulls away from me and tries to shoots my mate who was between me and the sniper. At this point I shoot the gunner out of this side of the helo (my 3rd and last person I killed in this game) and we see another guy bail out of the chopper. The chopper then goes and kills the sniper guy and we snipe the bailer before letting rip at the helo with everything we've got. Helos pulls off out of the area and suddenly all is quiet.

What an epic battle - at least 14 people, at least 3 groups, maybe 2 lone wolves in the mix and only 2 survivors live to see the end of it - this shit is real PvP people! Not some noob bambi hunter at the coast.

There is so much more to DayZ, sadly half the people don't get to see it as their entire life cycle is killing new spawns then Alt F4ing when shot at. Just becasue I don't kill in this game doesn't mean I am a carebear, I've just seen what is possible in this game and it's epic, and it caters for all playstyles, bandit or medic.

Edited September 15, 2012 by AnnieGYG

[DrunkPunk 159]

Regardless of how you feel, OP, every single one of those types of people are a part of the game. They are playing, in a sense, the way it was designed. Even the ones shooting new spawns on sight. Remember when Rocket said his goal was to make it so no part of this game ever feels safe? It's those people who are making that possible.

People have certain expectations when they sit down and experience something. Sometimes, those expectations are to have a harmless time wandering around a wasteland, making friends and surviving together. That's great and all, but if you set unrealistic expectations, knowing fully well just what the mechanics are and what they allow, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for a frustrating or ruined experience. The bottom line is, if new spawns weren't intended to be targets, there would be something implemented to hold their hands and keep them safe. This isn't the truth. In this game, it's about principle, morality, and ultimately the psychology of how far a person will go. And it's working perfectly.

Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, every single aspect of this experience you mentioned is intended to function the way it is. People might think it's stupid to shoot on sight, but without those people we wouldn't have the strong emotional responses we do to this game, which is what it is all about. It's all a necessary evil, and for those who can't handle it, there are plenty of other games that will hold your hand and keep you safe. And there is nothing you could say, regardless, that would change the minds of how a person plays.

Disclaimer: Yes, I'm a bandit. Sometimes I'll help somebody that shows me a moment of kindness, or that needs it, but ultimately I kill to survive, to get gear, and most importantly to not be bored. Running around fixing vehicles and shooting poorly coded zombies can only entertain me for so long. The human element, the thrill of the hunt, and the knowledge that this life, too, shall end is what keeps me on the edge of my seat. While you wouldn't find me in Elektro shooting bambies, you certainly won't see me trying to remove them from the game. Besides, they're usually a free kill and maybe even a free can of beans.

[gambles 234]

Regardless of how you feel, OP, every single one of those types of people are a part of the game. They are playing, in a sense, the way it was designed. Even the ones shooting new spawns on sight. Remember when Rocket said his goal was to make it so no part of this game ever feels safe? It's those people who are making that possible.

People have certain expectations when they sit down and experience something. Sometimes, those expectations are to have a harmless time wandering around a wasteland, making friends and surviving together. That's great and all, but if you set unrealistic expectations, knowing fully well just what the mechanics are and what they allow, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for a frustrating or ruined experience. The bottom line is, if new spawns weren't intended to be targets, there would be something implemented to hold their hands and keep them safe. This isn't the truth. In this game, it's about principle, morality, and ultimately the psychology of how far a person will go. And it's working perfectly.

Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, every single aspect of this experience you mentioned is intended to function the way it is. People might think it's stupid to shoot on sight, but without those people we wouldn't have the strong emotional responses we do to this game, which is what it is all about. It's all a necessary evil, and for those who can't handle it, there are plenty of other games that will hold your hand and keep you safe. And there is nothing you could say, regardless, that would change the minds of how a person plays.

Disclaimer: Yes, I'm a bandit. Sometimes I'll help somebody that shows me a moment of kindness, or that needs it, but ultimately I kill to survive, to get gear, and most importantly to not be bored. Running around fixing vehicles and shooting poorly coded zombies can only entertain me for so long. The human element, the thrill of the hunt, and the knowledge that this life, too, shall end is what keeps me on the edge of my seat. While you wouldn't find me in Elektro shooting bambies, you certainly won't see me trying to remove them from the game. Besides, they're usually a free kill and maybe even a free can of beans.

Thing is, I don't think that is what Rocket intended. He has said in many interviews that he didn't understand why killing of new spawns was happening quiet as often as it was (probably because he saw it as just griefing, like most) and that's part of the reason why he took away the pistol, so there would be even less incentive to kill a new spawn. He actually did it to protect, not harm,.

And I also don't believe that the game wasn't made for you to make friends outside of it and then betray that friendship or exploit it until you lose them. I don't think a game should ever be made that way because it's kind of disgusting, this is after all, a game.

But if that is the way you think and play the game, that is all you buddy. It;s your choice to play the game how you will and there is nothing I or really anyone else can do to stop you from playing this game anyway you damn well please. But don't be upset or angry when someone calls you a dick for crossing that line.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Gambles

[GeordieMarv 293]

As has been mentioned, bandits are a part of the game.

It would be incredibly dull without the fear of getting killed by a bandit, and personally i wouldn't have it ANY other way.

We all want a bit of fun, a sense of 007 secret agent if you will.

But these people that befriend others...or even go to the lengths of joining an online clan...just to infiltrate them and cause havoc... i just do not understand.

Especially when they have "befriended" these people OUTSIDE OF THE GAME ENVIRONMENT for weeks to gain their trust.

I can appreciate they want to be a bad ass bandit, i appreciate they want to have some fun and be ruthless. But as mentioned there are limits to this.

Some people not only step over the line...they fail to see the line entirely.

Edited September 15, 2012 by GeordieMarv

[John Spectre 32]

welcome to eve... err DayZ

A system of law enforcement, posting and earning bounties, tracking people... something. These are the tools needed by members of the community to enforce certain behaviours.

Rocket said (ergh I said Rocket said) he doesn't want a heavy handed approuch (I agree fully) but does want to put tools in the hands of the players to make the game what it will be. Too many losers up on the hill shooting fresh spawns? time to saddle up and join a posse and go huntin'

[DaestE 10]

If you dont mind, let me share an experience with you.

So after about a weeks worth of playing, I find a corpse in the tower in the middle of NWA.

When I looted them, I got a NVG, M9SD, M4A1 Holo, Coyote backpack, Rangefinders, GPS ETC.

I sprawled around chernorus (Not chernogorsk) alone, going through most major locations.

Being a survivor type, not a settler, I didn't go find any vehicles, but just ran around collecting ammunition etc, and found 15SD clips,

I hid somewhere in the big bad dark woods.

I went to go bambi hunting (The competitive no-gear hunting kind) That you despise so much, and decided Komarovo would be the best place to start.

So as I go in the building, it was already filled with corpses. Someone had a war here, and quickly I discovered I wasnt alone in the building.

I disregarded my bad intentions, and asked nicely (X4) for them to just come out and I wouldnt hurt them (I was serious about that).

They stayed in a corner, with an axe so I sidestepped in and shot an entire clip in them (Sorry, but I cant trust an axe guy, whos unresponsive, obviously waiting for me, blocking my way to the roof and lastly in a building full of corpses.)

I saw a bandit run by, (probably did some killing himself) and decided not to shoot at him, but rather to take some zombies off of him.

He ran off, and seemed to be going a big circle seeing as he was going back from heading to balota (within 3 minutes) back to Kamenka.

As I was shouting for him to come here, a bambi came by, and I ordered him to go upstairs. and I decided to give him my M9SD (put it in a zombie)

So as we go down (Was gonna leave him, just wanted him to have a silent gun) he starts bleeding and I bandage him.

As I go down he ACCIDENTLY <<< Note; this was a good guy and a sure accident- hits me with his M9SD once, while a zombie is down the ladder while im climbing) or the zombie did it.

I decided to ask him to do the humane thing (Out of bandages) and just pop a cap in my skull. After refusing for about 3 minutes I convince him to just go behind me and shoot me, and keep all my gear.

He does, and I never saw him again. Went looting afterwards, found a M4A1 CCO SD, M9SD and camo clothes, within 4 hours.

Karma still exists guys, and even though it might just be a few lucky spawns (Still had a tent with 15SD clips, had a day of fun before abandoning all these items in a tent) helping a different group out.

For every ammount of assholes, theres good people like me aswell.

Just think in their perspective too, been playing for 1?-2 years, shot a hell of a load of zombies, and sometimes boredom makes people jerks.

I would personally not shoot anything that isnt armed and "has ideas", sometimes a little sport aswell (Gear vs enfields) but surely, good guys like me take out the bandits either ways.

If you dont like the bullshit, I got a good whitelist server you might want to check out.

Hacker free zone, and people are pretty friendly :)

P.S I agree with the topic fully, dont get me wrong.

Have a nice experience, and happy hunting guys.

[Slugfoot 73]

Good op, but I have to say that threads like this (and the ones about hackers) each put me a little more off buying the SA when it comes out because it sounds like there are too many fucktards out there who play (or cheat) purely to piss people off.

I'm beginning to think this may not be the game for me even though I've wanted something like it to come along for years.

I'll be monitoring the SA carefully for stuff like this and deciding if it's worth the frustration before buying it.