Player Value, Social Presures and Dynamic "Life Cycles"

[hoik 415]

I have posted this idea before, but it has been revised in order to make its intention much clearer.

WARNING - THIS IS A HUGE POST (You can skip the MATH part :) )

THE INTENTION

- To develop a way for every player to have a destinct value in regards to eachother, to counter rampant PVP.

- The "life value" of a player will be implemented by making PvP actions effect both YOURSELF and THOSE AROUND YOU.

- Create social presures not to commit murder (just as there is in real life)

KEY FEATURES

- Promotes team-play without impacting other play styles.

- Players decisions have a subtle effect on the game world. Its effects will not be imediate but rather a evolution over weeks of game time.

- To dynamicly affect both the difficulty of the game and the cultural behavior of the players.

THE EXECUTION

To implementing a sytem like this it will need 2 things:

1. a HIGHLY DYNAMIC LOOT DROPING SYSTEM

2. Layered on top of this, a system that will allow players to directly infuence both the quality and quantity of loot in game simply by the actions that they take, be it PvP or running through the wood wearing gopher hide leotards.

IMPORTANT - By directly relating resources to lives you can give everyone a value.

THE MATH

As a very rough psudo-code this is how i see it working (this presumes a Dynamic Loot System has been implemented).

The system will be run on a server by server basis:

- The system tracks average PVP death count. The number of murders will be divided by the total number of players to join the server - giving a average player murder count. (This indicates co-operative behaviour).

- Each server also logs players average lifespan. (This indicates survivalist behaviour).

- These two data sets can then be used in conjuction to determine overall co-operation and over all survivalist behavior, which than can be assigned to variables to determin - over time - the average behaviour of the group.

Eg.

*PvP deaths/day = 20 AverageLifeSpan/Day = 2hrs - this would indicate low co-op and low lifespan.

*PvP deaths/day = 8 AverageLifeSpan/Day = 12hrs - this would indicate medium co-op & lifespan.

*PvP deaths/day = 1 AverageLifeSpan/Day = 22hrs - this would indicate High co-op & lifespan.

There of course can be exceptions where you could have low PVP and low life span but not the other way around.

- These values then can be applied to a scale that will determin loot density and value (which will be the difficult part and require a lot of ballancing)

Here is an example:

Lowest End of Scale - (Very High Death Count(Low co-op)/Low Average Lifespan)

- Loot Density = 100%

- High Quality Loot Chance = 2%

Middle of Scale - (Medium Death Count(Medium co-op)/Medium Average Lifespan)

- Loot Density = 60%

- High Quality Loot Chance = 40%

Highest End of Scale - (Very Low Death Count (High co-op)/High Average Lifespan)

- Loot Density = 2%

- High Quality Loot Chance = 100%

And everything inbetween...and it is this "inbetween" where all the intrest lies. The dynamic senarios that would naturaly occur are very exciting as well as being very logical - the more people there are the less resources there will be and the higher the average level of technology - and vica-versa. Either way conflict is built into this system!

SOLO-PLAY FANS READ THIS!

Now before all you "lone wolf" fans jump in and say it punishes solo-play let me point out it can actually favour it and infact will give you more worth as a hermit/villan. I could explain further but this post is long enough as it is - just have a think about it.

THERE WILL BE A LIFE CYCLE!

BIRTH: At the low end of the scale (with plentiful food supplys and low level weapons) there will be a tendancey for chaos and violence because the value of life is nul.

MATURITY: As the groups organise the average lifespan will rise and the death count will go down. But this in turn will lower the amount of available resources while better arming the community.

DECADENCE: If the community continues to work in pure co-operation, their technology advances while resourse deminish further and further. The average death count will plummet while the life expectancy rises.

REBIRTH: A tension point will come where resource become so limited the only way to survive will be to turn on eachother - the death count sky-rockets, life expectancy plumets - and it all begins again!

HOW IT MAY EFFECT CULTURE

I hope it is obvious how this will influence decision making when it comes to killing other players. It will not discourage or penalise player decisions persay, but will make their decisions have a conciquence - a non-imediate one, one that is only negative or positive depending on your standpoint, with no moral concequence other than those imposed by your fellow survivours.

Prehaps outright murder will become seen as a social taboo (looked down on, but unstopable) because life is now directly linked to the quantity and quality of loot - to better your situation co-operate, or at the least rob someone rather than murder them or alternatively live on the fringes and let others team-players do the hard work while you reap the benifits. Your choices are still there - but now you have to think, for at least a moment anyway, when making a decision.

THIS SYSTEM COULD BE PURELY OPTIONAL

I know that even this level of, "guidence" lets call it, is too much for some people. So it should be an option that can be implemented on a server by server basis - with the severity of influnce a player has over the loot density/quality of items being fully adjustable by admins. Of course this will directly influence the "worth" of other players to eachother.

THE END

I'll stop here because i can go on and on, but will conclude by saying that in my mind the most important role a system like this could take is to act as a catalyst for cultural behaviour within the game.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Hoik

[Dreamseller 0]

It sounds like a nice idea, but the main reason people kill others is due to paranoia and fun. People will always kill others, just because it is fun for them, even if there is a huge penalty against it.

[Techercizer 82]

Sounds long, complicated, and nebulous. A prefect fit for Day Z!

I like the cut of this suggestion's chops. Hopefully rocket will give it some consideration.

[matt.gilmurray@gmail.com 46]

Too...much...math...brain...shutting...down. Haha just kidding I like this dead a lot because even though I am a lone wolf I really wanted to group up with people and this seems like the perfect option since it benefits teams/groups.+1

[Januskoogen 0]

Your idea sounds like it could work!

After an unfortunate death during times of DECADENCE the new respawned survivor is seduced, due to scarcity of loot, to backstab other players for their gear, which are off guard cause the PVP situation has been stable lately. The chaos start all over again...

[murhis 4]

So basically when people wants to get a good gear they go to a server which has low pop and just search & loot and avoiding other players without course of violence till they are satisfied about their gear... and then when they have found what they were looking for they can pick a server which has high pop and unleashing the weapons they have... So there goes a point of a "dynamic loot". Not worth it.

You guys have to face the fact that there will be always players who want to kill others for whatever reason(and it's completely irrelevant why) and long as the PvP exists there will be always a loop hole as I described for doing it by the book. Those artificial punishments causing more harm than good. Either you have factions fighting each other or you don't and if you don't there can't be such artificial boundaries.

-1

[LastShenanigan 8]

This would be a good change to encourage people to care more about their own lives, no more slamming respawn just because of a broken leg. Though I see the people you deem at the end of the lifespan as the main offenders of the "shoot first ask questions later". Imagine how interested they'd be in helping someone they don't know if they could lose their high gear spawn chances...

[hoik 415]

Thanks everyone for responding.

So basically when people wants to get a good gear they go to a server which has low pop and just search & loot and avoiding other players without course of violence till they are satisfied about their gear... and then when they have found what they were looking for they can pick a server which has high pop and unleashing the weapons they have... So there goes a point of a "dynamic loot". Not worth it.

I see your point. Server hopping could be a problem with this idea' date=' but one that could be solved (IMO). My counter to your argument would be this - the density/quality of loot drops would be very subtle (not like you could jump in check some stats and then move on) it would take some time to figure out the state of the world and all the while you will be interacting with it, even if you are avoiding others - so no matter what you are still playing the "game". Also the number of players could effect the rate at which loot drops are re-calculated making low-pop servers take longer to evolve.

Personally I don't see how your senario is detremantal to my idea in any way - this form of "meta-gaming" is inevitable, but would be far from as easy as you suggest. Even the laziest gamer would have to put some thought into how their actions play out in the world if they want to progress (This is ALL I ask). There will be those that jump from server to server there will be those that have put time into builing their world - they may even rely on "strangers/server hoppers" to kill in order to keep their world in equalibrium!

You guys have to face the fact that there will be always players who want to kill others for whatever reason(and it's completely irrelevant why) and long as the PvP exists there will be always a loop hole as I described for doing it by the book. Those artificial punishments causing more harm than good. Either you have factions fighting each other or you don't and if you don't there can't be such artificial boundaries.

-1

I have been told on SEVERAL ocasions that Im not "facing the true problem"' date=' which is that some people will PvP without thought unless they are PUNSIHED by very obvious and direct (therefore VERY artificial) game mechanics. I have tryed to view this "problem" not as a player created, but a GAME mechanic that has been hard coded and needs balancing. This is a GAME after all - all the solutions are going to have to take some artist licence, but the less obvious the better (IMO).

What is artifical (in the contex of the game) about loot density/quality being effected by the players lifespan/PvP?

As I said in another post:

"How do water shortages occur? Why is the price of petrol sky rocketing along with the price of food? People effect the resources (eg loot) around them as a by product of living- the more people there are the higher (the) demand and the less there is to go around and vica versa.

I would argue it would be against the "realism" of the game if it DIDN'T have a system that modified loot accordingly :D !"

Im not sure but I THINK you are pro-freedom - so am I - this idea is keyed towards as much freedom as possible WITH a bare minimum of responsibility. Though it may be too much for some, they will have face some responsibility or end up being dictated to by the game (as they are used to).

If this idea was implemented well, it could be like a force of nature. So subtle as to be invisible and so unavoidable as to be undeniable - like gravity :P !

Edited November 23, 2012 by Hoik