Addressing "DayZ Game Mechanics thread".

[gambles 234]

Hey, I'm Gambles.

I was going to reply to the original thread that got a ton of positive feedback for some reason that I don't really understand. Unfortunately it is many pages long now and I really would like for people to read this as I think people who think of this game the way the OP of the topic does are completely missing the point of DayZ and would be far better off in another game or even a different arma mod (there are many good ones).

I've been talking with people on this forum about PvP and banditry a lot and to me some people seem like they're playing a different game. Or not even a game, they're talking about morality. Have you ever considered someone a bad person because they've beat you in a board game?

I'll try to show you guys what game mechanics this game has and why people kill each other.

Imagine a big board with hexagon tiles, maybe something like that. Now every player will have their own figure. And that figure will be representing the player. There can be up to 60 players playing at the same time. Every player's figure has health, attack damage and attack range, maybe some special moves. You can upgrade your figure by collecting powerups that are scattered on the map. Powerups are guarded by very weak monsters. Players can attack each other and if one player beats another player's figure he can take all his powerups if they are higher level than what he already has. If you beat someones figure that doesn't have any powerups or all powerups are lower level then you don't gain or loose anything. If your figure is beaten you start over. There is no points or time limit. The game never ends and players can join and leave at will.

How would you imagine that would look like? People would just beat other people's figures for their powerups. Some people would bunch up for sure but everyone would be just trying to take other people's powerups if given chance. Nobody would fucking say that a player who beats other people's figures is a bad person. Or that it's a dick move or immoral. Or that they should never own a gun.

Now lets digitalize the game and change the style a bit. Change the board to a 3d map without tiles. Everyone can move at the same time. Change figures into human models. Change powerups into weapons and other equipment. Everything else stays the same. Suddenly it's immoral to beat other people's pawns. Suddenly you get all those people saying that we shouldn't be playing against each other. That it's harassment and griefing if you do. Suddenly you have people threating it as something completely different than a game. Like an extension of reality. (And by that I don't mean role-playing.)

What happened? It's still just a game. The movement and visuals are just bit different but it's all the same. Don't blame people for playing by the rules and mechanics. Blame the design. People will always do the most profitable thing. Especially if there are no downsides to it.

1: "Have you ever considered someone a bad person because they've beat you in a board game?"

Not really no. But if I were a player who played board games and cheated (duping/scripting), and only played against people I knew I could beat like small children (fresh spawn noobs) I would probably be considered a pretty big dick. Especially if I bragged about it, no? I would think that type of person does have a few underlying issues. Moving on...

2: "Power ups, basically addressing the game as a gear grind where you kill for more loot or power ups."

You have completely and totally missed the point of this game. I have no idea what attracted you to this game if you look at it that way. The great thing about this game is that you CAN play the way you want. You don't have to shoot everyone you see or camp newbies in spawns. Even more so with how common great loot is in the game in it's current state. On top of that you have the suspense of being in situations where you could die, and really challenging yourself in your skills and patience and sometimes yes even morals.

What you have done with your post is basically stripped away everything that makes DayZ a great game. All you addressed was the gear as power ups and people competing for it. There is so much more than that, the way every single person acts in the game changes the world of that server. It's not just some equipment hunt so don't even try to trivialize it like that.

People question other peoples morals in game when the exploit parts of the game or pick on the weak. Just as someone would judge another if they played board games against children so they could win or doubled there money in monopoly every time they went to the bank. Which is funny cause your first sentence really contradicts what you are trying to get across. Maybe I wouldn't judge someones morals down to there core from a board game, but if they are a dick when playing it then obviously I'm going to judge them in some form or fashion.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In the end I really don't see the point of your post. The game is INTERESTING because you can judge people in it. Because they can choose how they act and those choices follow them through the game. The point of the game is NOT to kill people for military gear, the point of the game is to survive a zombie apocalypse and meet people a long the way, both good and bad. The point was never to obtain that "POWERUP" lol. That's silly.

There are 50 million other games out there that match exactly what you described in your original post and funny enough is that DayZ isn't one of them. DayZ is best played when you take yourself and put yourself into the shoes of your character. I couldn't imagine playing the game anyway else, it would just take so much out of what makes DayZ a great game and not just another zombie shooter or team death match.

So you wonder why people can judge other people in game for the way they act? Because they can, and they will, and that's a good thing. Just like you can choose what you do in game and how you act they are free to feel however they want about it. And if they are playing the game not as just some broken "meta-gamed" piece of crap and actually putting them selves in the shoes of there character they will see needless killing as just that, needless killing.

I hope the poster of the original topic responds I would like to read your thoughts.

Thanks for reading.

[BelMarduk 169]

Last night me and some friends ran into a fresh spawn (we are known as BMG and we try to help new players learn the game and hunt bandits). The player we came across had no gear and we helped him gear up a bit, he then turned on us at an opportune moment. I have NO issue with that, as there was no scripting/hacking involved with our death. Was he a dick, was that a dick move, yes it was, but I couldnt bring myself to rage at it (was more mad it myself for my misplaced trust, but even then, I would do it again as Ive met alot of cool people NOT shooting on sight). Earlier that day (up at the NW air field) myself and a friend were just finishing up looting the airfield and were fixing to head out. Someone spawned into the hanger we were leaving and shot us in the back. THAT was a dick move that was rageable against. There is NO skill involved in that style pf play. We both sport hero skins (I have only two 'murders' both self defense), with many bandit kills over my play time since mid May). Raging against someone that kills you legit is silly, server hoping/scripting/hacking kills or other cheating is NOT cool in any way shape or form.

The point of this game is staying alive, surviving. Look at tents. Most people dont have a clue about how they are supposed to work. The mechanic of tents is the person that places the tent can manipulate its contents (saving). When you place a tent you can save/pack up that tent any time you want. Once you die (perma death) that tent is no longer 'yours', the new char you spawn is 'another person' so he can not manipulate that tent. Thats an example of how people miss the point of the game.

[gambles 234]

Last night me and some friends ran into a fresh spawn (we are known as BMG and we try to help new players learn the game and hunt bandits). The player we came across had no gear and we helped him gear up a bit, he then turned on us at an opportune moment. I have NO issue with that, as there was no scripting/hacking involved with our death. Was he a dick, was that a dick move, yes it was, but I couldnt bring myself to rage at it (was more mad it myself for my misplaced trust, but even then, I would do it again as Ive met alot of cool people NOT shooting on sight). Earlier that day (up at the NW air field) myself and a friend were just finishing up looting the airfield and were fixing to head out. Someone spawned into the hanger we were leaving and shot us in the back. THAT was a dick move that was rageable against. There is NO skill involved in that style pf play. We both sport hero skins (I have only two 'murders' both self defense), with many bandit kills over my play time since mid May). Raging against someone that kills you legit is silly, server hoping/scripting/hacking kills or other cheating is NOT cool in any way shape or form.

The point of this game is staying alive, surviving. Look at tents. Most people dont have a clue about how they are supposed to work. The mechanic of tents is the person that places the tent can manipulate its contents (saving). When you place a tent you can save/pack up that tent any time you want. Once you die (perma death) that tent is no longer 'yours', the new char you spawn is 'another person' so he can not manipulate that tent. Thats an example of how people miss the point of the game.

Some people just can't sit down and 'enjoy' a game.

[calthehunter 61]

The way I see it, by the time we're full sail ahead on the standalone alpha, we'll be rid of so, so many people that are haters, hackers, or just all around don't get it. Let them keep their WarZ's and their Call of Dooty's! If the developers continue to improve on the game and add features that enhance the experience until it is a fully realized standalone game, I'll be all about DayZ for a very long time

[ben_c 140]

TL DR

What a cool, edgy and hipster way of whoring your post count. Please ask your parents what the word 'discussion' means and then, please, come back and contribute.

I find it interesting on how different people interpret what type of game (I know it's a mod, I'm using the term generically here) DayZ is. I read the OP, and the thread to which he refers, and I can see the pros and cons in each. I agree with the OP here in that the analogy used by SillySil does not really bracket DayZ in its entirety, but then SillySil is more describing the attitudes towards banditry and the expectations of players morals within the game.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Ben_C

[SillySil 295]

I've almost missed this thread.

1: "Have you ever considered someone a bad person because they've beat you in a board game?"

Not really no. But if I were a player who played board games and cheated (duping/scripting), and only played against people I knew I could beat like small children (fresh spawn noobs) I would probably be considered a pretty big dick. Especially if I bragged about it, no? I would think that type of person does have a few underlying issues. Moving on...

I never said breaking the rules of the game is okay, on the contrary. You agree to play the game by the rules. If someone breaks them he ruins the game. It's a dick move to flip someone's board. But only because they didn't agree to it. When you play a game you join a competition and you accept the fact that you can loose. And when you loose, the guy who's beaten you isn't a dick. It's a game that you both agreed to play.

2: "Power ups, basically addressing the game as a gear grind where you kill for more loot or power ups."

You have completely and totally missed the point of this game. I have no idea what attracted you to this game if you look at it that way.

I thought it was a zombie survival game. Once I tried it and dug through all my false assumptions and illusions it turned out that the mechanics are exactly the same as in Quake, the map is just bigger and you can share what you pick up and that there are no "points". That's the only difference in mechanics.

The great thing about this game is that you CAN play the way you want. You don't have to shoot everyone you see or camp newbies in spawns. Even more so with how common great loot is in the game in it's current state. On top of that you have the suspense of being in situations where you could die, and really challenging yourself in your skills and patience and sometimes yes even morals.

Yes you can do whatever you want. But the same way you can do whatever you want in any game. Some things that you can choose to do will put you at a disadvantage. You can play a game like diablo naked. But the game mechanics will punish you for that. Same thing happens here with friendly behavior. If you choose to be friendly the mechanics punish you for it. Why? Because it's just so much safer to kill on sight. Plus you get all the gear. There is absolutely no downside to killing people. While there are downsides of being friendly. You can choose not to follow the game mechanics and play in a different way but the mechanics still influence you, you didn't free yourself from them.

What you have done with your post is basically stripped away everything that makes DayZ a great game. All you addressed was the gear as power ups and people competing for it. There is so much more than that, the way every single person acts in the game changes the world of that server. It's not just some equipment hunt so don't even try to trivialize it like that.

I have stripped DayZ of everything that's not in the game. That's the point. The game itself is very basic. It's just FFA DM without scoretable on a big map. Everything else is just what you attached to it. But it's not in the game itself.

Exactly what you said can be said about the board game I made up. Maybe some people would start roleplaying in the board game and there would be much more to the game for them. But it's not in the game. They've added it.

People question other peoples morals in game when the exploit parts of the game or pick on the weak. Just as someone would judge another if they played board games against children so they could win or doubled there money in monopoly every time they went to the bank. Which is funny cause your first sentence really contradicts what you are trying to get across.

How does this correspond with what I said? People who play the board game will have more powerups and their figures will be stronger than those who just joined. It's still part of the game if they get killed. It's all within the rules you agreed to follow when you joined. It has nothing to do with players being worse at the game. Playing against children isn't fair. It's not breaking rules of the game but you obviously have an advantage over them. And by that I don't mean your figure but you in real life. That's different. It's an outside advantage.

Killing weaker figures is all within game rules. Nothing immoral about it.

Maybe I wouldn't judge someones morals down to there core from a board game, but if they are a dick when playing it then obviously I'm going to judge them in some form or fashion.

It someone's cheating that's a different thing. But if something is within the rules it's permitted. Nothing dick about it.

In the end I really don't see the point of your post. The game is INTERESTING because you can judge people in it. Because they can choose how they act and those choices follow them through the game. The point of the game is NOT to kill people for military gear, the point of the game is to survive a zombie apocalypse and meet people a long the way, both good and bad. The point was never to obtain that "POWERUP" lol. That's silly.

I never said it's the point. It's what you assumed looking at the mechanics of my board game. And my board game has exactly the same mechanics as DayZ because I just took all DayZ mechanics and gave them a different name. If you'd forget about all the roleplay things you've added to the game for a second and just look at the mechanics of the game, you'd come to the same conclusion. All those people who aren't roleplaying see DayZ the same way you just saw my board game.

There are 50 million other games out there that match exactly what you described in your original post and funny enough is that DayZ isn't one of them. DayZ is best played when you take yourself and put yourself into the shoes of your character. I couldn't imagine playing the game anyway else, it would just take so much out of what makes DayZ a great game and not just another zombie shooter or team death match.

Not everyone roleplays. And it's silly to assume that everyone will. And by extension that everyone will follow some sort of morality or even attach it to the game at all. That's why there should be something in the game to simulate morality. Hurt you for being bad person. And I think that because it's wrong in my opinion to favor a certain playstyle in a game that wants to be a sandbox. It implies that all the choices are equally valid. It's a lie, survivors have it harder.

So you wonder why people can judge other people in game for the way they act? Because they can, and they will, and that's a good thing. Just like you can choose what you do in game and how you act they are free to feel however they want about it. And if they are playing the game not as just some broken "meta-gamed" piece of crap and actually putting them selves in the shoes of there character they will see needless killing as just that, needless killing.

They don't consider my made up character that I'm roleplaying an asshole. They consider me an asshole in real life. Tell me I'm a sociopath and that I shouldn't own a gun just because I've killed their virtual pawn. It's insane. You might be behaving in game the same way you would in real life, but it doesn't mean everyone else does. Some people are just playing a game. They don't put themselves in it.

And again if the game wants to be a sandbox and heavy on morality then the morality has to be an in-game system.

And the reason why I don't roleplay myself is not because I need the game to tell me how to behave. I don't roleplay myself because that would put me at a disadvantage. Simple as that. If being a bandit would be as "hard" as being a survivor then the choice would be purely a matter of personal preference. Right now it's a choice between more and less advantageous position.

Edited September 11, 2012 by SillySil

[kebman 213]

This isn't a board game, bro... A board game has rules. This is a sandbox simulation. It has no rules, like the real world. And to make sense of the real world, we've got morality. In fact, if you really try to put yourself in the shoes of the character you're given, making moral choices makes the game even more interresting to play.

Also, I think people should be careful about claiming to know the point of this sandbox game. It is whatever players make it. However, saying that someone's missing out if he does not do X is fair.

Edited September 11, 2012 by kebman

[SillySil 295]

This isn't a board game, bro... A board game has rules. This is a sandbox simulation. It has no rules, like the real world.

Are there things that you can't do in the game? Like instantly get the best weapon or fly? Can you do anything you want? No? Then it has rules and mechanics that influence the way you play. You can choose not to eat and drink it's still going to kill you. You can't free yourself from the game mechanics.

And to make sense of the real world, we've got morality. In fact, if you really try to put yourself in the shoes of the character you're given, making moral choices makes the game even more interresting to play.

Sure. The moment it doesn't put me at a disadvantage.

Also, I think people should be careful about claiming to know the point of this sandbox game. It is whatever players make it. However, saying that someone's missing out if he does not do X is fair.

It's not whatever players make it. It's whatever players make it within the rules and mechanics of the game. You can choose whatever you want to do. But some choices will make the game harder for you or just kill you. Because the mechanics and rules always influence you.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

The great thing about this game is that you can play it how you want.

Just because someone plays a bandit role and shoots people (whether fresh spawn or not) does not make them a bad person, or morally corrupt. This is a video game for crying out loud. Whether that player wanted to engage in PvP is irrelevent. He joined a game that has PvP at it's core, and thus accepted the risks inherent with the game when he joined a server. That player is participating in a PvP world, where a player has the choice to shoot or not shoot another player.

It is not my fault if a player gets shot because they were not paying attention to their surroundings.

It is not my fault if a player gets shot because they were standing on a hill side next to cherno twiddling their thumbs.

It is not my fault if a player gets shot because they stood on a roof looking around.

It is not my fault if a player has no sense of fear that they make themselves easy targets.

A player has to play as if someone is near them (whether they like it or not) and act accordingly. I laugh at all the people who complain about being sniped and want sniper guns taken out. I have only been sniped in this game once (was my fault) because it is so easy to avoid. Now, I have been killed up close many times... but I never bitched and complained (unless it was due to a hacker) because I put myself in the situation to get shot. So I made a mistake somewhere along the way that gave my enemy the advantage. Learn from it and move on.

Carebears can go cry themselves to sleep for all I care. I will never have any pity for carebears wanting to change the game.... they have 50,000 other games they can go play because they've already ruined them.

[gambles 234]

I've almost missed this thread.

I never said breaking the rules of the game is okay, on the contrary. You agree to play the game by the rules. If someone breaks them he ruins the game. It's a dick move to flip someone's board. But only because they didn't agree to it. When you play a game you join a competition and you accept the fact that you can loose. And when you loose, the guy who's beaten you isn't a dick. It's a game that you both agreed to play.

Thing is very few bandits aren't duping there gear. On top of that very few forum posts on here are complaining that they were killed legitimately in a competitive environment. People complain about duping and scripting bandits that attack with no fear of losing things because of exploiting the game. The issue of people judging others when they are killing others for gear is a non-issue. People just don't complain about it. It's the duping bandits that kill new spawns for fun and the like which doesn't even coincide with your "power up" argument that people rage about.

I thought it was a zombie survival game. Once I tried it and dug through all my false assumptions and illusions it turned out that the mechanics are exactly the same as in Quake, the map is just bigger and you can share what you pick up and that there are no "points". That's the only difference in mechanics.

That's the thing about sanbox's sir. It's NOT the game mechanics that make the game. It is the community (How many times does Rocket have to say this?). The people are free to shape the game as they please with a game like this, even with how limited it is now. How people decide to play this game molds the entire structure of it. Unfortunately people have turned cheek away from competitive fights, or clan wars, or killing for gear, or for survival. And have chosen to exploit the game's weaknesses to kill those who often cannot fight back, for the simple purpose of causing them grief, which yes, makes them a dick.

Yes you can do whatever you want. But the same way you can do whatever you want in any game. Some things that you can choose to do will put you at a disadvantage. You can play a game like diablo naked. But the game mechanics will punish you for that. Same thing happens here with friendly behavior. If you choose to be friendly the mechanics punish you for it. Why? Because it's just so much safer to kill on sight. Plus you get all the gear. There is absolutely no downside to killing people. While there are downsides of being friendly. You can choose not to follow the game mechanics and play in a different way but the mechanics still influence you, you didn't free yourself from them.

I totally object to this. This is the mindset that ruins a sandbox like this. Playing friendly can put you at a HUGE advantage depending on what you look at as your goals in this game. Sure being friendly and stupid will get you killed, but being cautious and friendly can bring you more then gear. It can bring you friends in game, adventures, random encounters and experiences with people you don't even know. It gives you the potential to take a friend in game and possibly even have him be a friend in real life. It adds a community and a depth to the game far beyond your shallow interpretation of the game mechanics. At what point does it get boring collecting all the best loot? about 3 months ago according to a lot of players on here.

What are you left with? Your experiences that's what. And when people go out of there way to prevent this, people get mad and they should. Banditry is great when it isn't being exploited and when it isn't looked at as the ONLY way to play. How boring this game must be for people that refuse to shape the game themselves.

I have stripped DayZ of everything that's not in the game. That's the point. The game itself is very basic. It's just FFA DM without scoretable on a big map. Everything else is just what you attached to it. But it's not in the game itself.

Exactly what you said can be said about the board game I made up. Maybe some people would start roleplaying in the board game and there would be much more to the game for them. But it's not in the game. They've added it.

You have stripped away the SOUL of a sandbox game which is the player base. Haven't I said this before? hasn't rocket? he is constantly going on about how it's the players who shape the world not the core game. He just puts the tools there, we choose how we want to play. Now you have a ton of people like you who are complaining that people are mad at you for playing team death match. Maybe because they want something more from there game then just the mechanics that were put there for them. Maybe they see what Rocket does and want to play the game for the experiences, not the kill count.

How does this correspond with what I said? People who play the board game will have more powerups and their figures will be stronger than those who just joined. It's still part of the game if they get killed. It's all within the rules you agreed to follow when you joined. It has nothing to do with players being worse at the game. Playing against children isn't fair. It's not breaking rules of the game but you obviously have an advantage over them. And by that I don't mean your figure but you in real life. That's different. It's an outside advantage.

Killing weaker figures is all within game rules. Nothing immoral about it.

I don't know what kind of board game you could be spouting about where you start at a severe disadvantage to other people but I don't want to play it.

Now can I ask you where is the entertainment in defeating people in a 'competitive' online environment when there is no competition in it. Griefing is the primary reason for it and everyone who has ever been on the internet in the last 10 years knows it. Don't mask it. A-holes always single out the weak, and they will always be called A-holes.

There would be nothing immoral in-game about killing someone weaker than you if you needed his stuff. Unfortunately that isn't what is complained about on the forums so than CAN NOT be what you are addressing as that would be a non-issue now wouldn't it?

It someone's cheating that's a different thing. But if something is within the rules it's permitted. Nothing dick about it.

How many people complain on the forums about being killed legitimately? what great outburst are you addressing then. Cause I see people complaining about camping cherno with hacked weapons and duping.

I never said it's the point. It's what you assumed looking at the mechanics of my board game. And my board game has exactly the same mechanics as DayZ because I just took all DayZ mechanics and gave them a different name. If you'd forget about all the roleplay things you've added to the game for a second and just look at the mechanics of the game, you'd come to the same conclusion. All those people who aren't roleplaying see DayZ the same way you just saw my board game.

What you have to role play in order to want to experience some interactions with strangers in game? you have to role play in order to care about what happens to your in game character? you have to role play to not have the urge to shoot everything you see? and grief? Good god man I think you should look up role-playing (You know where you ARE the character, don't know things he wouldn't, only talk in game). I feel sorry for you if you think that caring about what happens to your character and your experiences means you need to role play.

Not everyone roleplays. And it's silly to assume that everyone will. And by extension that everyone will follow some sort of morality or even attach it to the game at all. That's why there should be something in the game to simulate morality. Hurt you for being bad person. And I think that because it's wrong in my opinion to favor a certain playstyle in a game that wants to be a sandbox. It implies that all the choices are equally valid. It's a lie, survivors have it harder.

Again, don't need to role play. I think adding something in that would hurt people who aren't morally sound is an awful idea. It should be the community at large that punishes those people, and in some regards it is working. We now have BANDIT complaining about wearing head wraps because they are getting shot on sight now, people see them as murderers and they get what they deserve no punishment needed, us survivors will do it ourselves thanks. Don't need a hokey in game mechanic to help us with that now that we can see em.

They don't consider my made up character that I'm roleplaying an asshole. They consider me an asshole in real life. Tell me I'm a sociopath and that I shouldn't own a gun just because I've killed their virtual pawn. It's insane. You might be behaving in game the same way you would in real life, but it doesn't mean everyone else does. Some people are just playing a game. They don't put themselves in it.

And again if the game wants to be a sandbox and heavy on morality then the morality has to be an in-game system.

And the reason why I don't roleplay myself is not because I need the game to tell me how to behave. I don't roleplay myself because that would put me at a disadvantage. Simple as that. If being a bandit would be as "hard" as being a survivor then the choice would be purely a matter of personal preference. Right now it's a choice between more and less advantageous position.

I guess some people might consider by extension you playing the "asshole" role when you have a choice, and just taking the easier road, I guess it's well within there rights to assume you might be a bit of a dick. Maybe you aren't? who knows. I can't say I agree with your views on games I know that.

But I see very few people calling others on the forums sociopaths and murderers, mostly it's people saying don't be a dick or whatever. Or raging. Not at all serious like you're pointing out. Maybe a few post, but definitely not as common you are making it out to be. Plus that wouldn't make sense anyway. Atleast 50% of the people who play this game are JUST like you. So don't fret, at worst people will think you're a dick for being one in game, at best you can play some TDM with your buddies.

Right?

Edit: Why not make a topic about how people get bashed on the forums by the community for complaining legitimately about hackers in game as opposed to complaining about people judging others when they are killed legitimately by them (which is a FAR less common topic). If you are so against people judging others why are you not stepping in on these forum posts that completely degrade new players and call them a whiny POS for complaining about scripting? I mean if you care so much about judging others morals and all.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Gambles

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

good post gambles, warranted for a separate thread!

[gambles 234]

good post gambles, warranted for a separate thread!

Just hoping to catch the original thread posters attention without getting lost in the butt kissing or raging lol

[codave 121]

All the self appointed hall monitors can take their silly sashes and go pound sand.

We are all equally unimportant. I don't get to dictate how you play your game anymore than you do mine.

The real dick move is the assumption of superiority, moral or otherwise. Just get over yourselves and accept the fact that not everyone thinks or plays like you do.

Apart from hacking and cheating, whatever you want to do is probably the "right" way to play the game.

Can I have my hall pass back now?

[Heiduk 265]

Great just what this forum really needs yet another duplicate thread.

[gambles 234]

All the self appointed hall monitors can take their silly sashes and go pound sand.

We are all equally unimportant. I don't get to dictate how you play your game anymore than you do mine.

The real dick move is the assumption of superiority, moral or otherwise. Just get over yourselves and accept the fact that not everyone thinks or plays like you do.

Apart from hacking and cheating, whatever you want to do is probably the "right" way to play the game.

Can I have my hall pass back now?

And people can freely judge you for it, wonderful thing isn't it. How rocket made the bandit and hero skins attached to the player and not the character? as if HE WANTS people to be judged by there morals.

Great just what this forum really needs yet another duplicate thread.

Great just what the internet needs, another assclown.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Gambles

[SillySil 295]

For some reason I can't quote you...

Thing is very few bandits aren't duping there gear. On top of that very few forum posts on here are complaining that they were killed legitimately in a competitive environment. People complain about duping and scripting bandits that attack with no fear of losing things because of exploiting the game. The issue of people judging others when they are killing others for gear is a non-issue. People just don't complain about it. It's the duping bandits that kill new spawns for fun and the like which doesn't even coincide with your "power up" argument that people rage about.

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How many people complain on the forums about being killed legitimately? what great outburst are you addressing then. Cause I see people complaining about camping cherno with hacked weapons and duping.

Before the duping spree and script spree every second thread was about how bandits ruin the game. Even now in threads like "what's your reason to kill?" you get people saying things like "please never own a gun" or "you're a bunch of sociopaths"

Duping and scripting is against game rules. I've never included that in my thread because it's not supposed to be in game. I was painting the picture of DayZ mechanics without cheating. Your talk about duping and hacking has nothing to do with what I've said.

That's the thing about sanbox's sir. It's NOT the game mechanics that make the game. It is the community (How many times does Rocket have to say this?). The people are free to shape the game as they please with a game like this, even with how limited it is now. How people decide to play this game molds the entire structure of it. Unfortunately people have turned cheek away from competitive fights, or clan wars, or killing for gear, or for survival. And have chosen to exploit the game's weaknesses to kill those who often cannot fight back, for the simple purpose of causing them grief, which yes, makes them a dick.

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I totally object to this. This is the mindset that ruins a sandbox like this. Playing friendly can put you at a HUGE advantage depending on what you look at as your goals in this game. Sure being friendly and stupid will get you killed, but being cautious and friendly can bring you more then gear. It can bring you friends in game, adventures, random encounters and experiences with people you don't even know. It gives you the potential to take a friend in game and possibly even have him be a friend in real life. It adds a community and a depth to the game far beyond your shallow interpretation of the game mechanics. At what point does it get boring collecting all the best loot? about 3 months ago according to a lot of players on here.

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You have stripped away the SOUL of a sandbox game which is the player base. Haven't I said this before? hasn't rocket? he is constantly going on about how it's the players who shape the world not the core game. He just puts the tools there, we choose how we want to play.

It's not the community that makes the game what it is. It's always been and will be game mechanics. If rocket would add some kind of a reward for every kill, people would just KoS. They could choose not to but they would be loosing the advantage that killing gives you. And that's exactly what's happening.

Calling a game sandbox doesn't make it a sandbox. The game mechanics need to support it. It's like taking the scoretable out of quake putting the mode to FFA and calling it a sandbox. It doesn't work like that. For a game to be a sandbox the mechanics can't favor a certain playstyle. If killing on sight is the most profitable thing in-game then the mechanics set the gamemode to FFA DM. Yeah there are people not following the game mechanics and they are getting punished for that. Simply because there are downsides to being friendly and there are none to killing on sight. Yeah I loose the opportunity to make friends. But the chance that I'll get shot in the face by a guy who's saying that he's friendly is just too great.

What are you left with? Your experiences that's what. And when people go out of there way to prevent this, people get mad and they should. Banditry is great when it isn't being exploited and when it isn't looked at as the ONLY way to play. How boring this game must be for people that refuse to shape the game themselves.

You can't make a game and assume that everyone will roleplay. It's not gonna happen. If you want people to use morality then you have to put it in the game.

"Now you have a ton of people like you who are complaining that people are mad at you for playing team death match. "

Who's complaining? What is this with this mindset on this forum that if you say anything that doesn't praise the game you are instantly complaining. The point of my thread was to show 2 things.

1. It's not immoral to beat your virtual pawns.

2. To show how all game mechanics support killing on sight and inevitably lead to it. (and that I also think it's not a good mechanic for a game that wants to be a sandbox)

Maybe because they want something more from there game then just the mechanics that were put there for them. Maybe they see what Rocket does and want to play the game for the experiences, not the kill count.

That's the point. I'd love to see being a survivor equally hard/easy as being a bandit. Bandit has more chances of survival. (assuming they're both equally skilled at the game, before you start making some specific examples at where the bandit is a moron and the survivor is good). That's wrong. There has to be a trade off for killing. If there is something in the game that will only benefit me and doesn't have any downsides, I'll just do it. Even just in case.

I don't know what kind of board game you could be spouting about where you start at a severe disadvantage to other people but I don't want to play it.

Brilliant way of avoiding making an actual counter argument. What you've just said is absolutely not relevant.

Now can I ask you where is the entertainment in defeating people in a 'competitive' online environment when there is no competition in it. Griefing is the primary reason for it and everyone who has ever been on the internet in the last 10 years knows it. Don't mask it. A-holes always single out the weak, and they will always be called A-holes.

But it's within the rules to take out someone weaker than you. Nothing immoral about it. The competition is about not getting eaten by a bigger fish. I don't do anything to upset other people. If they get upset that's a side effect of me doing something to win (or in case of DayZ not to loose). And it has always been in games and sports. Nobody considers winners assholes. It's insane.

There would be nothing immoral in-game about killing someone weaker than you if you needed his stuff. Unfortunately that isn't what is complained about on the forums so than CAN NOT be what you are addressing as that would be a non-issue now wouldn't it?

I even said in the other thread "If you beat someones figure that doesn't have any powerups or all powerups are lower level then you don't gain or loose anything." What I'm addressing might not be the main issue now because scripting and duping is the main issue right now. However when the standalone comes, people think that the game will be exactly as it is now minus scripting and duping. And they fully support that while blaming people for being immoral and assholes not understanding that it's the game mechanics that support it. People will always choose what's the most beneficial for them.

What you have to role play in order to want to experience some interactions with strangers in game? you have to role play in order to care about what happens to your in game character? you have to role play to not have the urge to shoot everything you see? and grief? Good god man I think you should look up role-playing (You know where you ARE the character, don't know things he wouldn't, only talk in game). I feel sorry for you if you think that caring about what happens to your character and your experiences means you need to role play.

I have to roleplay to have morality because the game gives me absolutely no reason not to do bad things. And it gives me reasons not to be a nice guy because there is a good chance I'll get shot.

Again, don't need to role play. I think adding something in that would hurt people who aren't morally sound is an awful idea. It should be the community at large that punishes those people, and in some regards it is working. We now have BANDIT complaining about wearing head wraps because they are getting shot on sight now, people see them as murderers and they get what they deserve no punishment needed, us survivors will do it ourselves thanks. Don't need a hokey in game mechanic to help us with that now that we can see em.

Who's complaining again? Me? Wow I didn't know that saying that a mechanic in AN ALPHA STAGE GAME is wrong is called complaining. I don't understand that mindset. We're here to test the game and give suggestions and feedback. That's my feedback. Give a negative consequence to killing otherwise the game is supporting a certain playstyle and I think it's unacceptable in a game that wants to be a sandbox and tell me that it's just my personal choice to be good or bad. It's not. It's a choice between more and less advantageous position. It would be matter of my personal choice only if both options would be equally valid from the mechanics point of view.

I guess some people might consider by extension you playing the "asshole" role when you have a choice, and just taking the easier road, I guess it's well within there rights to assume you might be a bit of a dick. Maybe you aren't? who knows. I can't say I agree with your views on games I know that.

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But I see very few people calling others on the forums sociopaths and murderers, mostly it's people saying don't be a dick or whatever. Or raging. Not at all serious like you're pointing out. Maybe a few post, but definitely not as common you are making it out to be. Plus that wouldn't make sense anyway. Atleast 50% of the people who play this game are JUST like you. So don't fret, at worst people will think you're a dick for being one in game, at best you can play some TDM with your buddies.

Yeah I'm sure a comment like "please don't ever own a gun" is referring to my in game character.

3 things.

1 just check threads like "why do you kill?" and you will see a lot of people saying how killing others in dayz is immoral, griefing, that the person must be an asshole in real life and that they are sociopaths. (just because they have killed your virtual pawns)

2 I don't care in the slightest what they think about me.

3 Again, the thread was to show that it's the game mechanics supporting killing and it's the design that you should be blaming, not people. And again, calling a game sandbox doesn't make it a sandbox.

Edit: Why not make a topic about how people get bashed on the forums by the community for complaining legitimately about hackers in game as opposed to complaining about people judging others when they are killed legitimately by them (which is a FAR less common topic). If you are so against people judging others why are you not stepping in on these forum posts that completely degrade new players and call them a whiny POS for complaining about scripting? I mean if you care so much about judging others morals and all.

I'm not complaining about anything. You seriously need to change your mindset. I'm just showing people the game mechanics without all their assumptions and illusions and saying that it's pretty insane to consider people assholes for beating other people in a GAME. I don't mind you thinking that a character I'm playing is an asshole. Maybe I'm roleplaying a sick fuck. But these people think that what you do in game, reflects in 100% the way you are in real life. That's crazy.

[codave 121]

And people can freely judge you for it, wonderful thing isn't it. How rocket made the bandit and hero skins attached to the player and not the character? as if HE WANTS people to be judged by there morals.

Of course people can judge another player, but telling someone their play style is "wrong" or "ruining the game" is a much different thing.

My post wasn't even directed at you, but more the people who go way out of their way to try and prove their opinion is fact.

[terex 322]

Holy crap, this is still going? SillySil..tsk tsk.

DayZ is a game most enjoyed portraying yourself or someone / something you want to be through your in game character anyway you choose to do so, at least I like to think so and from my experience.

[SillySil 295]

Holy crap, this is still going? SillySil..tsk tsk.

DayZ is a game most enjoyed portraying yourself or someone / something you want to be through your in game character anyway you choose to do so, at least I like to think so and from my experience.

Yes, then why punish people who want to play friendly and reward bandits?

[terex 322]

Yes, then why punish people who want to play friendly and reward bandits?

No one is getting punished? Where do you get that from.. What the hell, stop making up shit. Go cry over the hero skin "running faster and having a bullet proof vest".

[Zombie Jesus 723]

I think you missed the guys point, he was not saying it is admirable or noble to murder new spawns or that you should script and dupe, he was just saying that the game as it is now encourages PVP and KoS due to certain mechanics and lack of reasons to team up. If you have never played as a bandit I think you are missing out on an awesome feature of this game, and playing as a bandit does not mean you suddenly lose your moral compass for the game (I never take the AS50 TWS nor do I hill snipe new spawns in Cherno). I have played the survivor/hero role for over two months and it started to drag on me, so one night I help two guys with broken bones and even give them an engine part for their vehicle and in return they stalk me out of the city despite having been told clearly that I did not want them to follow me (had a Ural on the outskirts). I was frustrated with multiple fake friendlies in the past week and instead of my usual warning I went to cover and murdered both as they came around the corner, and frankly it was the most fun I had all that week.

This one action changed my perspective and I decided to go on a bandit spree, and frankly I have enjoyed my play style. People will think I am a dick for saying this, but I usually do not need anything from the player I just killed. I try to hunt other bandits and people camping a location and I also keep my banditry to Lingor servers where gearing up is easy so killing someone is not nearly as terrible. I will let an unarmed or pistol carrying survivor carry on because that fight is not fair, but then again the fight I usually get in are rarely fair because it usually means I spotted you first and waited for a good opportunity.

You say we can play the way we want, but then argue that one style of play is what the game is intended for while the others are just griefing. Logic fail, otherwise I have no problem being hunted down by a hero or survivor because that is how I used to play anyways and I see the fun in both play styles. If the game comes out with mechanics that encourage more cooperation I will most likely switch back to being friendly, but for now I will continue on my murder spree.

[SillySil 295]

No one is getting punished? Where do you get that from.. What the hell, stop making up shit.

Being nice:

+ can make friends, two sets of eyes and 2 guns are better than one (this goes away if I already have friends I play with and I'm not looking for more)

- has a good chance of getting shot either just after asking "friendly" or the moment you turn your back to them after they've said they're friendly.

- Gotta share loot.

Killing the guy:

+ can't kill you if you kill him first, safest thing to do

+ you get all his loot. if he had loot from hotspots (stary/nwa/hospital/shop) you can avoid going there yourself and risking your life

- ... making sound?

Yeah totally an equal trade off...

Go cry over the hero skin "running faster and having a bullet proof vest".

Go make up some shit about me that I'd never do.

Edited September 11, 2012 by SillySil

[gambles 234]

Yes, then why punish people who want to play friendly and reward bandits?

You're just wrong. By you're thought the game mechanics make the game and not the community. What game mechanics punish people being friendly? none. The community does by have a shoot on sight attitude. You just continue to contradict yourself, as I will point out more thoroughly when I respond to your long post (half to do some things for a bit, but i'll be back) this time I'll go into more detail for you.

[terex 322]

Being nice:

+ can make friends, two sets of eyes and 2 guns are better than one (this goes away if I already have friends I play with and I'm not looking for more)

- has a good chance of getting shot either just after asking "friendly" or the moment you turn your back to them after they've said they're friendly.

- Gotta share loot.

Killing the guy:

+ can't kill you if you kill him first, safest thing to do

+ you get all his loot. if he had loot from hotspots (stary/nwa/hospital/shop) you can avoid going there yourself and risking your life

- ... making sound?

Yeah totally an equal trade off...

Go make up some shit about me that I'd never do.

You keep making it all about "getting items and loot", this game does not revolve around that and to some people they value different things. How can you not understand that yet?

You're just wrong. By you're thought the game mechanics make the game and not the community. What game mechanics punish people being friendly? none. The community does by have a shoot on sight attitude. You just continue to contradict yourself, as I will point out more thoroughly when I respond to your long post (half to do some things for a bit, but i'll be back) this time I'll go into more detail for you.

It boggles my mind that SillySil the contradicting queen can feed himself.

Edited September 11, 2012 by terrex

[SillySil 295]

You keep making it all about "getting items and loot", this game does not revolve around that and to some people they value different things. How can you not understand that yet?

Oh I'm sorry. So you don't need food and water? You don't need medical supplies in case you get injured? You don't need weapons to defend yourself? ( I guess you can just accept death but how many people are actually going to do that?) Can you choose not to use any of those things? Sure. But if you don't use those things you significantly increase your chance of dieing. And I thought the point was not to die.

Of course you can make up your own objective, like run naked to NWA and back but the mechanics are going to kick your ass.

It boggles my mind that SillySil the contradicting queen can feed himself.

Either you don't know what contradiction is or you're hallucinating, or maybe you just lack logical thought. Show me where I contradict myself.