Let me paint you a picture of DayZ game mechanics.

[SillySil 295]

Better add all the drugs in then, porn and whatever other retarded shit you can think of.

Is making up retarded shit the best argument you can come up with?

I bet EVERYONE thinks that before they kill someone. I need to go kill a family, better stock up on some 40's... Gtfo.

I bet EVERYONE in real world doesn't feel anything when killing people and if not the laws people would just do it for fun right? Newsflash you can't simulate human emotions in a video game. You need to put something else in it's place if you want something that represents morality.

[terex 322]

Is making up retarded shit the best argument you can come up with?

I bet EVERYONE in real world doesn't feel anything when killing people and if not the laws people would just do it for fun right? Newsflash you can't simulate human emotions in a video game. You need to put something else in it's place if you want something that represents morality.

Humanity exists in DayZ. There you go. You can be a bandit, survivor OR if you are a good little buster, a hero. And yes, making up retarded shit is the best I came up with because it sums up the smoking and drinking recoil for murdering in a game.

[minttoothpick 10]

The point isn't to penalize killing. The point is to make both playstyles just as good but different.

I'd love to see addictions for murderers. The more you kill the more booze/smokes you need. If not, your hands shake, hear things and who knows what. Just make the system balanced. Not too harsh but not too easy.

Oh. That would be interesting. But forcing killers to need alcohol/tobacco/other is still a penalization. I hope they don't equalize it too much. Murderers/snipers are huge part of any zombie apocalypse. ;) But then there are those like me who make it their business to kill such dastardly folks.

[yorkie065 78]

I like the OP's post, can see where he's coming from and it does relate heavily to the current meta of DayZ, but here is my reasons why i've argued for a different game.

It goes back to when the player base was much much smaller than it is now...like, 1,000,000 less! I started out back then with some mates and DayZ was something that is different to today. Back then, yes you did have those who was shot on sight and have the mentality of the current game, but there was a lot fewer, and there was one BIG difference to today. And that was everyone who played like that, were up North and in the centre of the map! Bandits would go around in groups and look for fire-fights, which is something that I did myself with my friends when we had the gear. This, is what made DayZ great! The North was a place where the experienced players were, and the coast was for the new players. They hung around in the major cities, helping each other out until they had the gear and experience to move inland.

Now however, those bandits who used to be fighting in the fields of Stary and the airfields are forced to fight on the coast because of the new players who like to sit on the hills of Electro and Cherno. These cities, were A MUST avoid back in the old days, but those who risked it and survived got decent gear to make the journey up.

The problem I have is that all the fighting is on the coast! If it was inland, like it was before, the game would be more survival-esk and there could be the possibility of less people who shot on sight. The game felt very different back then to how it does now. And yes, we should all be accepting of change, but that change needs to be positive. Not one that makes the game less enjoyable and only utilizes small spots of the map. 9 times out of 10 visits to the North West Airfield have been drama free, and quite boring. That place used to be a death trap, but the gear you could get made it worth it and for some interesting experiences.

[SillySil 295]

Humanity exists in DayZ. There you go. You can be a bandit, survivor OR if you are a good little buster, a hero.

What? I don't think you know what humanity is. How is a different skin going to stop me from killing people? There is nothing in the game that simulates morality. There is not a single thing in the game that would stop me from killing people. A number with a "humanity" title has no influence on my actions.

And yes, making up retarded shit is the best I came up with because it sums up the smoking and drinking recoil for murdering in a game.

Implying changing clothes for murdering people isn't retarded.

[terex 322]

What? I don't think you know what humanity is. How is a different skin going to stop me from killing people? There is nothing in the game that simulates morality. There is not a single thing in the game that would stop me from killing people. A number with a "humanity" title has no influence on my actions.

Implying changing clothes for murdering people isn't retarded.

The game leaves the player to decide their own morals. Nothing stops me from killing other people aside from other people. This is nothing more then another topic crying over bandits in other words.

[hawc 63]

Completely agree. Everytime i hear the words "in a real zombie apocalypse" I stop taking that person/post seriously. Because it's a fucking game. I wonder if people like that start calling cops when they play CoD/CS/BF and see someone playing as terrorist lol.

I also don't mind bandits, killing for fun, killing without looting because guess what? it's a game. You can do whatever the hell you want as long as it's not breaking the rules(game rules not your rules). Everyone who rages about snipers and stuff like that is an egoistical idiot.

[SillySil 295]

The game leaves the player to decide their own morals.

1. Morals in video game. rofl.

2. It doesn't. That's the whole point. KoS is the safest thing to do + you get all the gear so you don't have to go to dangerous places yourself. KoS has advantage over being friendly. So it's not just a matter of personal choice. It's a choice between more and less advantageous position. I'd love the choice to be just a matter of personal taste. But you to have that you need to have both playstyles equally good. At the moment they aren't.

Nothing stops me from killing other people aside from other people.

You mean in game or in real life? In game nobody stops you. You're already shooting everyone, how are they stopping you exactly? Nobody knows who and where you are. There are absolutely no consequences for killing people in DayZ.

If you mean in real life then seek help.

This is nothing more then another topic crying over bandits in other words.

See that kind of thinking shows that you're not very smart. You'd just put me in a big category of people who you think are stupid just so you don't have to think about my arguments, try to understand or use your brain at all. I am a bandit. I've been shooting people on sight since I started playing. Why? Because it's the safest thing to do and it's the fastest way to get loot.

Seriously how can someone who's saying "KoS is the safest thing to do and the best way of getting loot" be crying over bandits? How does that make sense in your head? Think.

Edited September 9, 2012 by SillySil

[Heiduk 265]

to me some people seem like they're playing a different game.

Some people are, and I think that is what gives this game the potential to be great. You aren't required to collect powerups, after all once past the most basic level they all offer comparable advantages, skill and luck are most important. What the game really offers is choice. The choice to kill or heal. The choice to hoard or share. The choice to find a home or walk the road. You can choose any path you can imagine. Some paths are harder or offer more rewards but the choice is yours.

I don't feel bad about beating people in a board game or a video game. It's a voluntary contest.

You didn't beat them, you killed them. The last words they saw were "You Are dead" not "You Lose". They may have been testing their combat skills against you, in which case they did lose, but they could have been playing a completely different game where death is only a minor setback.

Of course games remove moral and physical constraints that limit our actions in the real world, if they didn't we would all be spending our gaming hours going to virtual jobs to pay virtual bills so that we could buy virtual food and virtual cars. Perhaps most players turn to murder when these constraints are removed because it's in our competitive nature, or maybe we are just trained to do it from years of playing other games. However, some players use their freedom to take risks in helping others that they might not take in the real world. The choice is completely up to you.

This is your story, and you will be judged by your deeds.

[Just a Goat 25]

If you beat someones figure that doesn't have any powerups or all powerups are lower level then you don't gain or loose anything.

This is incorrect. You can gain all sorts of benefits.

People keep asking why it took so long to make a game like this. The answer - because of people whining about things like bandits.

[terex 322]

1. Morals in video game. rofl.

2. It doesn't. That's the whole point. KoS is the safest thing to do + you get all the gear so you don't have to go to dangerous places yourself. KoS has advantage over being friendly. So it's not just a matter of personal choice. It's a choice between more and less advantageous position. I'd love the choice to be just a matter of personal taste. But you to have that you need to have both playstyles equally good. At the moment they aren't.

You mean in game or in real life? In game nobody stops you. You're already shooting everyone, how are they stopping you exactly? Nobody knows who and where you are. There are absolutely no consequences for killing people in DayZ.

If you mean in real life then seek help.

See that kind of thinking shows that you're not very smart. You'd just put me in a big category of people who you think are stupid just so you don't have to think about my arguments, try to understand or use your brain at all. I am a bandit. I've been shooting people on sight since I started playing. Why? Because it's the safest thing to do and it's the fastest way to get loot.

Seriously how can someone who's saying "KoS is the safest thing to do and the best way of getting loot" be crying over bandits? How does that make sense in your head? Think.

Okay so, you are laughing at the "morals in a video game".. But yet you want to be forced to smoke and drink after killing people? How idiotic are you? Contradict yourself some more. I am just not bothering typing out a bunch of useless things and I will summarize it like I did before. Stop being so butthurt over senseless killing, it exists in this game and that probably wont ever change.

If you maybe read other peoples posts in the forums their moral is a HUUGE thing. Some wont EVER kill, they will let their entire squad die and then die them self instead of murdering someone. Others are medics, snipers etc.. Just because you can't emerge yourself enough to maybe feel some slight consequences for your actions doesn't mean that is applied to everyone. Personally, I don't. I may feel bad if I kill someone who stood no chance but that wont be on my mind for very long.

[SillySil 295]

Okay so, you are laughing at the "morals in a video game".. But yet you want to be forced to smoke and drink after killing people? How idiotic are you? Contradict yourself some more.

I've facepalmed myself IRL when I've read that. Wow.

I am laughing that there are people who consider it immoral to beat some other player's virtual pawn in a GAME. Seriously there has to be something wrong with you if you think that it's immoral to beat people in games. Do you think people who win at board games are assholes and bad people? It's ridiculous.

However I want something to simulate morality in-game if the game wants to be a simulator. Because counting that people will consider it immoral to beat other people's virtual pawns and that their real life morality will also be their in-game morality is insane.

I am just not bothering typing out a bunch of useless things and I will summarize it like I did before. Stop being so butthurt over senseless killing, it exists in this game and that probably wont ever change.

In case you didn't read my entire post (and I wouldn't be surprised) I'm the one doing senseless killing. How the fuck can I be butthurt over it? How does that make sense at all? Do you have a mental condition, I don't want to be too harsh on someone who has valid problems understanding things.

If you maybe read other peoples posts in the forums their moral is a HUUGE thing. Some wont EVER kill, they will let their entire squad die and then die them self instead of murdering someone. Others are medics, snipers etc.. Just because you can't emerge yourself enough to maybe feel some slight consequences for your actions doesn't mean that is applied to everyone. Personally, I don't. I may feel bad if I kill someone who stood no chance but that wont be on my mind for very long.

I don't feel bad for your virtual pawns not because I can't emerge myself but because the notion is ridiculous and crazy. When you're playing chess do you go "oh god I've killed the queen, what have I done, poor thing"?

And this thread is about the very thing if you haven't noticed. It's about people not threating a game a game. Because this is just a game.

[terex 322]

I've facepalmed myself IRL when I've read that. Wow.

I am laughing that there are people who consider it immoral to beat some other player's virtual pawn in a GAME. Seriously there has to be something wrong with you if you think that it's immoral to beat people in games. Do you think people who win at board games are assholes and bad people? It's ridiculous.

However I want something to simulate morality in-game if the game wants to be a simulator. Because counting that people will consider it immoral to beat other people's virtual pawns and that their real life morality will also be their in-game morality is insane.

In case you didn't read my entire post (and I wouldn't be surprised) I'm the one doing senseless killing. How the fuck can I be butthurt over it? How does that make sense at all? Do you have a mental condition, I don't want to be too harsh on someone who has valid problems understanding things.

I don't feel bad for your virtual pawns not because I can't emerge myself but because the notion is ridiculous and crazy. When you're playing chess do you go "oh god I've killed the queen, what have I done, poor thing"?

And this thread is about the very thing if you haven't noticed. It's about people not threating a game a game. Because this is just a game.

You post complaining about it yet you say you aren't butthurt? I can't say I feel bad killing someone in a video game but I wont go out of my way to say someone is wrong in doing so. You seem to think people only play like you which is entirely false. Yes, let's add penalties for senseless murdering because "it's like that in real life" but insist that it's "just a game". Get over yourself. I think your suggestion or ideas suck on penalties for murdering. Nothing more to it. Keep attacking me more while failing to support your ideas.

Like I said before, the game leaves morals up to the player. You're just playing to senseless kill I suppose. To each their own. ;)

Edited September 9, 2012 by terrex

[puppetworx 474]

Morality is that code of behaviour which comes from being human. What happens in gaming is that you can choose to carry over conforming to that code of morals (role-playing) or you can choose to disregard them because you are acting in a fictional reality. So just like you say there are two different types of game that people are playing.

[bazbake 456]

Rocket:

"I wanted to create an anti-game..."

SillySil:

"It's just a game. Deal or GTFO."

[SillySil 295]

You post complaining about it yet you say you aren't butthurt?

1. How could I be complaining about something I'm doing myself. Think.

2. How am I complaining exactly? Is saying that there is something wrong in an alpha game complaining to you? I think it's stupid that a certain playstyle is favored in a sandbox game, while insisting that it's just personal choice.

I can't say I feel bad killing someone in a video game but I wont go out of my way to say someone is wrong in doing so. You seem to think people only play like you which is entirely false.

Nope. I can appreciate role playing but thinking that it's IRL immoral to kill other people's virtual pawns is pretty insane to me.

Yes, let's add penalties for senseless murdering because "it's like that in real life" but insist that it's "just a game".

You are just not getting it. I've already explained it. If the game wants to be a simulator the it should have morality. But what's more important it shouldn't favor a certain playstyle.

I think you shouldn't count on people's IRL morality when it comes to A GAME because it's just a game and people should threat it as such. Therefore if you want morality to be a factor in the game, you need to add something into the game to simulate it. Seriously, how is that contradictory? It makes perfect sense.

Get over yourself, I think your suggestion or ideas suck on penalties for murdering. Nothing more to it. Keep attacking me more while failing to support your ideas.

Everything you've said was wrong so far. Why would you be right this time?

[terex 322]

1. How could I be complaining about something I'm doing myself. Think.

2. How am I complaining exactly? Is saying that there is something wrong in an alpha game complaining to you? I think it's stupid that a certain playstyle is favored in a sandbox game, while insisting that it's just personal choice.

Nope. I can appreciate role playing but thinking that it's IRL immoral to kill other people's virtual pawns is pretty insane to me.

You are just not getting it. I've already explained it. If the game wants to be a simulator the it should have morality. But what's more important it shouldn't favor a certain playstyle.

I think you shouldn't count on people's IRL morality when it comes to A GAME because it's just a game and people should threat it as such. Therefore if you want morality to be a factor in the game, you need to add something into the game to simulate it. Seriously, how is that contradictory? It makes perfect sense.

Everything you've said was wrong so far. Why would you be right this time?

You can't add moral into a game, it is a human trait. You are so ignorant your posts actually make me feel like I am dumbing myself down to understand it. You can't understand the fact that people will apply their IRL morals to a game. Oh well, just another crying topic over senseless killing.

What you are trying to do but miserably failing is add a consequence for murdering.. You're too slow, there is a mechanic called humanity. SillySil, making me repeat myself in multiple posts. ;)

Edited September 9, 2012 by terrex

[Lag (DayZ) 17]

Terrex. You're a dumbass.

[terex 322]

Terrex. You're a dumbass.

Thanks, I wrote this in my diary.

[SillySil 295]

You can't add moral into a game, it is a human trait.

I even said "You need to put something else in it's place if you want something that represents morality. (in a video game)". You can put things in the game that would penalize you in situations when normally it would be your conscience giving you hard time. Hence addictions.

You are so ignorant your posts actually make me feel like I am dumbing myself down to understand it.

Oh god the irony. A guy who thinks I'm crying about killing even tho I've always been a bandit and even tho I said that KoS is favored playstyle so it's nothing weird that people do that. A guy who can't comprehend that thinking that putting IRL morality into a game is crazy and nobody should count on it hence the game should have a system that simulates morality instead isn't contradictory. A guy who's best argument is "your idea suck" has the nerve to tell me that he's dumbing himself to understand what I'm saying. Are you trolling me? You can't be serious.

You can't understand the fact that people will apply their IRL morals to a game.

I can understand the fact perfectly. I just think it's pretty crazy to feel compassion towards pawns in a game and to think that beating someone else's pawns is immoral.

Oh well, just another crying topic over senseless killing.

I even said in the OP "Don't blame people for playing by the rules and mechanics. Blame the design. People will always do the most profitable thing. Especially if there are no downsides to it." if you didn't understand it was about killing people. How can I be crying over something I'm doing myself. And let me ask you again. "How am I crying exactly? Is saying that there is something wrong in an alpha game complaining to you? I think it's stupid that a certain playstyle is favored in a sandbox game, while insisting that it's just personal choice."

[kebman 213]

Personally, I stopped reading when you wrote "morality", and only skimmed the rest. Now, with that needlessly offensive remark out of the way, let me explain why.

If you think this game is as simple as chess, or a hex board game, then you're sadly mistaken. The reason is simply that this game caters to the possibility of taking real moral choices. You don't really have to kill other players to "win" this game. There are other ways to play it. Thus morality becomes a real issue, because what you're doing is essentially to topple over other people's card houses, or destroy their castles of sand.

Were this a game you could "win", that would be OK, and the sand-castle builder would be the loser. However, in a world where people build sand castles for their own enjoyment, or if they play a game of solitaire, and then you come along and mess everything up for them, then that makes you an asshole - morally speaking. You do not know if the other player aggreed to play a game of PvP with you. You just went ahead and assumed it. And as we all know, assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

This is not a simple hex board game. It's way more complex than that, and if you play the game in a way that other's don't like, prepare to be called an asshole. Probably you are one too, especially when you're too weak to admit that you did it to have fun on the expence of others. I mean, at least proper bandits admit that they do it to have fun on the expence of others, and don't hide behind moral bullshit like "this is just an advanced hex board game".

The only thing you're right about is that in this game you're not punished for bad behaviour. Instead you're mostly rewarded for it, unless someone is smart enough to find a hatchet and bring it to some griefer's head on Sniper Hill. What could have been a great experience in finding new friends and starting a cooperative adventure, is reduced to dodging bullets from people who just enjoy spreading grief.

On the other hand, people who play this game, really can't complain about it either, as it truly is a sandbox, and having fun at the expence of others is part of this game. In a way it brings an added element of challenge to the game. Not only do you have to dodge infinite amounts of zeds, but you must also, for some reason, dodge snipers - because people are evil. :)

I'm all happy about it, of course, because I know that it means I now can go on a rampage an play Punisher on all those mindless griefers up there on Sniper Hill. It's part of the game, and it's all fun challenges to get over, if you ask me - just don't try to explain something stupid, like that this game is wihout or above or under - or whatever you call it - in relation to morals. Or morale, or whatever the hell it is you call it. As much as I like discussing this game, I much prefer playing it. And about that...

Edited September 9, 2012 by kebman

[terex 322]

I even said "You need to put something else in it's place if you want something that represents morality. (in a video game)". You can put things in the game that would penalize you in situations when normally it would be your conscience giving you hard time. Hence addictions.

Oh god the irony. A guy who thinks I'm crying about killing even tho I've always been a bandit and even tho I said that KoS is favored playstyle so it's nothing weird that people do that. A guy who can't comprehend that thinking that putting IRL morality into a game is crazy and nobody should count on it hence the game should have a system that simulates morality instead isn't contradictory. A guy who's best argument is "your idea suck" has the nerve to tell me that he's dumbing himself to understand what I'm saying. Are you trolling me? You can't be serious.

I can understand the fact perfectly. I just think it's pretty crazy to feel compassion towards pawns in a game and to think that beating someone else's pawns is immoral.

I even said in the OP "Don't blame people for playing by the rules and mechanics. Blame the design. People will always do the most profitable thing. Especially if there are no downsides to it." if you didn't understand it was about killing people. How can I be crying over something I'm doing myself. And let me ask you again. "How am I crying exactly? Is saying that there is something wrong in an alpha game complaining to you? I think it's stupid that a certain playstyle is favored in a sandbox game, while insisting that it's just personal choice."

You can't apply morals to a game means everyone else can't. I love ego's. They did have a side placer for it and for the third time it's called humanity. Maybe they will add more penalties for murdering, I have no clue and am honestly not worried about it in the least. Maybe once you try something aside from senseless killing you'll understand. We were all there at one point. ;)

[SillySil 295]

You can't apply morals to a game means everyone else can't. I love ego's.

So you think it's normal to think that beating other people's pawns in a game is immoral? What does that have to do with my ego?

They did have a side placer for it and for the third time it's called humanity. Maybe they will add more penalties for murdering, I have no clue and am honestly not worried about it in the least. Maybe once you try something aside from senseless killing you'll understand. We were all there at one point. ;)

You don't care yet you go "another thread crying about killing". And the "humanity" that's currently in the game does nothing.

[terex 322]

So you think it's normal to think that beating other people's pawns in a game is immoral? What does that have to do with my ego?

You don't care yet you go "another thread crying about killing". And the "humanity" that's currently in the game does nothing.

Some people really emerge into DayZ, role play etc. I am not saying I do but we aren't in any position to say how they play or take DayZ is wrong in any way or form. We decide how to play, our in game goals / objectives so I don't get how we apply our morals is anyway different. You have your ego in which you can't understand how some people play and think it's all "kill on sight", "murdering is the easiest fastest way for gear".. Okay well, not everyone is playing for fast and easy gear. So simple minded, can't accept the fact not everyone plays like you. I don't care how most people play but there is NO WRONG WAY to play. Humanity can give a small hint on someones preferred play style.

[supraguy@hotmail.com 0]

Kebman is right, this game is a sandbox game. A game design which in essence is nothing more than a continuing series of choices that the player must make.

If I had Rocket over for dinner, I would ask him to make it optional for bandits to have to wear the towel wrap. And to make grouping easier for players, both good and bad. With the ability to construct better fortifications. And leave the rest up to the players to decide. If we start getting penalized or rewarded for our behavior with bonuses to speed, or a forced bandit skin, I think that we start steering towards Call of Duty mechanics, which I think the vast majority of players on here are not fond of.

I think the "reward" for our behavior should be nothing more than whatever feelings and emotions our preferred play style make us feel IRL. I.E. Yesterday I ran around with a multinational group in a repaired UN vehicle and helped players in trouble, gave rides to players, helped a clan repair their heli, etc. I felt a sense of accomplishment, a sense of being part of something bigger, and a huge adrenalin rush as we encountered various scenarios. No other game can evoke such an emotional reaction. And that is what I love about this game/mod.

My 2 Cents

Cobalt