Spawning Outside of Buildings, Not in Them

[flash2323 11]

I think that a good addition/change could come from not allowing players to spawn inside a building. If a player logged off while inside a building, the player is placed in a dedicated spawn location for that building type (ex. 20 feet outside of the door). This would enable players to effectively barricade themselves inside their "safe house". The reason for spawning outside is that players will come to a barricaded area in server x, log off of server x and onto server y, move into the barricaded area, relog back onto x...voila the player infiltrated the barricade. This should not be allowed and if this change is put in place, it would allow people to create bases and strongholds - this would introduce a new (albeit minor) playstyle.

This forces players to locate tool boxes or entrenching tools if they want to infiltrate a barricade...which is how it should be.

What do you think? Leave a comment.

[Ipurgepeople 106]

I think there just shouldn't be the ability to server hop in general.

[{420}Mr.Smiley 53]

You cant force people to stay on a certain server. That being said it isnt a bad idea really, except in the current dayz mod spawning people outside of buildings would be instadeath if you were spawned in the middle of a street in cherno, it takes a good 15-30 seconds after your player is spawned to when you can actually play him, so either a zombie or sniper would get you.

I really dont see any point in barricading yourself in a house unless your mindlessly sniping or loot farming.

[flash2323 11]

Well maybe, in respect to large cities, having spawn locations outside of the city...then the person has to get into the city again instead of being able to start in the city.

I really dont see any point in barricading yourself in a house unless your mindlessly sniping or loot farming.

The instance I thought of was something like a garage where I can pull my atv inside, store stuff in it, and then barricade it. This place can serve as a teams fallback location and other rp'ing stuff.

[farren.5@osu.edu 2]

I posted something similar to this a couple weeks ago - tell me what you think of this idea:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/81251-spawning-in-after-logging-out/page__hl__%22spawning+in%22

[flash2323 11]

Cornerstone, I agree with your suggestion. The only thing I'm unsure is if you meant to say that certain areas will be designated as spawn points (as in you spawn in safe buildings). Because, in my opinion, a character should spawn outside of buildings because one's character may end up spawning inside of another player's safehouse. I think that we want the same thing but for different reasons. I didnt think of the perks you mentioned (people "teleporting" on top of you while you stand guard) but they are a definite plus. The main reason I wanted it to be implemented was for the purposes of constructing fortified structures for your team (I just like the roleplaying aspect of building a safehouse - its probably what I would do in something like dayz, so why not do it). Obviously there are even more reasons to do this, rather than just safehouse construction...we can only hope.

[farren.5@osu.edu 2]

I like what you're saying.

Initial idea: If you have a Toolbox and Scrap Metal, when you go into a structure you have the option to "Fortify" the doorway. This makes it so that the door is barred and other players would have to shoot the lock off (or damage it somehow - finally a specific use for the crowbar?) in order to enter. Then you could save the fortified doorway just like you save a vehicle. The next step would be to change the aspect of shelves and tables in rooms to be able to store items, like a vehicle. This way a clan could take over a large building, everyone could have their own room which only they could open (someone else would have to break the lock off the door), and the clan could defend their HQ. Additionally, lone wolves could find random buildings in the middle of the woods and do the same. Being able to fortify gates this way would also be very interesting.

Tying our ideas together completely - if someone has "fortified" a building, then it is removed from the list of potential "safe spawns" that I mentioned in my own post.

I know that people wouldn't be happy about being able to enter even LESS buildings, but you'd still be able to enter them by shooting or whacking the locks off with a hatchet/crowbar, and this would add a new element to the game. Namely, finding the best hiding spot and consequently, engaging in thievery. Perhaps addtionally you could use grenades to booby-trap the doorway so that anyone nearby who forced it open would suffer the consequences.

[flash2323 11]

I like the fortify idea too. Not so sure about the booby-trap because there has to be a fair way for players to disarm it/spot it, otherwise it is just an unfair death when you did everything required to enter the structure.

The issue with entering less buildings can be fixed by explaining that "until one gets the proper tools, these places are untouchable" which adds a sense of progression. A newly spawned character shouldn't be able to enter the buildings that a 10+ day survivor can.

[The Power Nap 21]

Why not add a sleeping bag item that you could deploy inside a building. If you "save" to the sleeping bag you can spawn inside that building, otherwise it's outside for you. That allows you to fortify a building, keep server hoppers from bypassing, and allows you to spawn inside your own safehouse.

[farren.5@osu.edu 2]

I like your idea of progression - that should be further built upon.

The idea behind the ability to booby-trap (it's not an automatic thing) is that as soon as you encounter a closed door that you cannot open, you're immediately going to jump to the conclusion that you've stumbled upon someone's hideout and all their loot is inside. There's nothing stopping you from breaking down the door with a hatchet or crowbar (ie: quiet methods, rather than shooting the lock off). Adding the possibility of insta-death from being hit with a grenade would make a player thing twice, and might cause them to stand back and shoot the lock off instead. But this comes with it's own dangers, as the gun shots might draw zombies or other players. It forces a decision on how to best open the door, or to not risk the danger and ignore it. Without this, I don't think many people would be as willing to use this new idea, since their stuff could be stolen so easily.

I'm thinking the lock should have about 7000 blood/damage capacity and have a target box about the size of a human head. That much damage capacity means that it'll take 2 on-target shots from most rifles (or only 1 shot from the heavy rifles/shotgun with buckshot pellets) to break the lock - that seems to be a pretty good approximation to real life. Note that this would also mean that it would take a full Makarov magazine to disable the lock, but given that the Makarov uses 9mm bullets, this seems OK. It also means that if you want to open the door safely from a distance, but not create a lot of noise, that you're going to be incurring a reasonable cost (at least 1 smaller magazine for a sidearm) but that seems fair to me.

If I could have everything with this suggestion, I'd also set it up that the only way to break the lock noiselessly would be to use a crowbar to pry open the door. Although the hatchet is a silenced weapon, perhaps the lock could automatically cause a noise equivalent to a Makarov shot whenever it was damaged. This would provide an alternate reason to carry a crowbar, since it's really just a poor man's hatchet at this point, and keep the realism of the fact that someone hacking a door down with an axe is NOT a quiet activity.

I'd also like to see it set it up so that either a beartrap or a grenade could be used to booby-trap the fortified door. The beartrap is interesting, but just doesn't seem to have much use in the game right now (like the crowbar)

In terms of progression, perhaps a rare loot item could be added in the form of a tool - a lockpick. This would allow for a player to open someone else's fortified door without breaking the lock and activating any trap placed there.

Of course, this all is dependent on the idea that something can be created that would allow for storage inside of a structure (ie: on a table or shelves), just like you can store things in a vehicle (and that it didn't eat all the stuff everytime there was a server re-set).

[farren.5@osu.edu 2]

Why not add a sleeping bag item that you could deploy inside a building. If you "save" to the sleeping bag you can spawn inside that building, otherwise it's outside for you. That allows you to fortify a building, keep server hoppers from bypassing, and allows you to spawn inside your own safehouse.

This idea has some real possibilities. It's like an indoor tent - server specific, capable of storing items, requires less physical space. Perhaps if you're logging into that server within 25m or 50m of where you've placed/saved a sleeping bag, you log in at the sleeping bag location, regardless if it's in a building inhabited by other players (in theory, your friends). If you log into a server where you haven't placed a sleeping bag, but within a building where there are players currently inhabiting, then you get bumped to a spawn point in a nearby building that has no players.

Suggestion:

This could be accomplished by designating a "spawn point" in each building. If you are within say 25m of the spawn point when you log out, you will log in at that spawn point at any other server you go to, UNLESS there is another player within 25m of that spawn point, at which point the server deposits you at nearest in-building spawn point that does not have anyone near it (or at the "outside of town" spawn point if the town is full of people, which could be possible at some of the very small farms). If you are outside of a building/not near a spawn point, then you would just log in wherever you actually were in the world, unless "hill-hopping" is a problem in addtion to "building-hopping" - if so perhaps the space between exterior spawn points would be more like 100m or they could be located in specific areas that provide some cover, like behind trees (cause it would SUCK to spawn in the middle of a field, all alone except for the sniper in the treeline). If the buiding/spawn point on that server has a sleeping bag you've placed then the spawning point switch rule is overrided. If the building has been fortified and saved by another player, then that player is the only person who can log in at that spawn point. (because otherwise you could get around fortified doors by server-hopping)

If we could toggle on other players, and save them as "Friend" (like saving a vehicle), then maybe our friends could serve as the "sleeping bag" in this case, so that 2 friends logging in together in the same building didn't cause each other to be bounced to another location.

By the way, I love the fact that someone named "The Power Nap" suggested that the game needs a sleeping bag. :P

[farren.5@osu.edu 2]

I'm with you Flash - safehouse construction is something that the game really needs. I know that Rocket said he'd be adding underground shelters, probably when it comes out in a standalone game, but I'm not a big fan of that. I think it's a good idea, but the vast majority of people in an apocalyplse would not have perfectly hidden, bombproof shelters, simply because generally those have to be built before the crisis, not after. Has anybody ever tried to dig out a room-sized hole in the ground by hand? You'd go through a LOT of beans and Cokes getting that job done.

Don't get me wrong, I look at underground shelters as being the pinnacle of survivor item-storage, but they should be a premium element that are fairly rare and there should be an intermediate step between them and a random tent in the woods - the fortified (semi-) safe-house.

[PigMonkey 12]

Possible way to make a safehouse... safe:

1. "Scrap metal" + "toolbox" = Option to make steel door (can only be opened by the person who made it) *Can be opened with "Crowbar" Timer when attempting to open door with crowbar so it take 1 to 5 mins (random) to open. 1 in 5 chance of "FAILED to open door try again" message after timer finishes

2. "Key pad lock" = allows door maker to fit lock with 4 figured code so he can pass code to friends and they can open.

3. "Alarm" + "car battery" = this can be fitted to door so that if someone tries to crowbar it instantly sets off a loud alarm that attracts loads of zeds. Basically one man on his own would not have time to crowbar the door and fight off the zeds but a squad might be able to get in.

* You would not know if there was an Alarm fitted so you would think twice before even trying to crowbar the door if on your own.

Edited September 6, 2012 by PigMonkey

[The Power Nap 21]

Another possible option is making some of the currently un-enterable houses instances like the new Fallout. Paired with the sleeping bag item and the fortifications that have been proposed in this thread, it could meet most of our requirements.

The only flaw, and it is a serious one, is that you cannot defend the house from within it. You are also vulnerable to people camping the exits of the house, though this could be deemed a realistic threat.

By the way, I love the fact that someone named "The Power Nap" suggested that the game needs a sleeping bag. :P

Some of us take sleeping seriously... :)

Edited September 6, 2012 by The Power Nap

[farren.5@osu.edu 2]

PigMonkey - I like your suggestion #1. #2 and #3 I think are a bit beyond the game's capabilities right now and don't seem to fit perfectly with a post-apocalyptic world (at least from my perspective, ie: most source of electricity, including most batteries, are dead), but I do really appreciate your feedback.

Power Nap - I think you're really on to something with this idea. Rocket spoke of having his underground shelters be a separate instance outside of the rest of DayZ, so the functionality necessary for what you suggest should be very possible.

How about this:

The currently un-enterable buildings are actually enterable, but only to someone who has a crowbar to pry the door open (the doors on the other buildings are already unlocked). When you face a door on an un-enterable building it gives you the nametag "Door" (like a vehicle). Using the scroll wheel when facing the door when you have a crowbar in your inventory gives you the option to "Pry door open" which after the basic "bandaging/fixing a tire" action takes you into the instance inside that particular building. Inside this instance is a table which is coded to act like an immobile vehicle that can't be fixed, but in which you can store items. When you are back outside, if you have a toolbox and scrap metal you can select the option "Fortify door", which locks it against other players and puts some sort of visual identifier on the door that shows that it is fortified (it could be a large padlock hanging at doorknob height or a steel door place right where the other door is graphically in the game - the players just need something that they can attack to de-fortify the door). If you have a grenade, satchel charge or a bear trap (regardless of whether the door is fortified), you can select "Boobytrap Door" which then will be triggered whenever another player tries to use a crowbar to open the door.

When another player passes close to a fortified door, rather than the nametag "Door" the door will display "Fortified Door" which would be a clue that there might be loot inside if someone took the time to fortify it. But you can also NOT fortify the door and try to rely on the the fact that the door appears ordinary in order to not provide that clue. If a door is fortified, any player who is not the one who fortified the door (hopefully there is a way for the door to remember who fortified and boobytrapped it) must either shoot the steel reinforcing off or hack it off with a hatchet or use a crowbar and select he "Defortify door" option. Everytime the door is damaged it shoots a Makarov round directly into the dirt below it to aggro any zombies in the near area/alert players so that the door cannot be opened silently (ie: with a hatchet). The only way to silently break down a fortified door is by the "Defortify door" option (available only if the player has a crowbar), which involves a string of "X" number of "bandaging/fixing a tire" actions before the door is defortified silently (for example, X=10). After the door is defortified, one more "Pry open door" action must be taken in order to open the door and gain access to the instance inside the building. It's this action then that would trigger the grenade, satchel charge or beartrap boobytrap, which would take effect before the player was teleported into the instance.

There could be another option when you faced one of the doors at an un-enterable building, which would be "Check for traps". Each time it is selected (it can be done any number of times), the basic "bandaging/fixing a tire" action will play and the message on the screen will read either "Did not find a trap" or "Trap disarmed" - if there IS a trap, then the player has a Y% chance of finding it every time and if it is found, it is automatically disarmed and the explosive/beartrap is wasted. If there is no trap or the trap check is not successful, then the "Did not find a trap" will display. This allows any player (with a crowbar) to try to enter the building in safety, but there will always be a chance, even if you check for traps 100 times, that a truly clever boobytrap will catch you unawares (ie: if Y = 25% then if you "Check for traps" five times then you will be 76.2% certain that the door is safe (10 checks would increase your confidence to 95%).

Assuming that outside the game instances are indeed coming down the line, I think that this plan may be completely doable and serve as a complement to the potentially more rare underground shelters (in a more hidden place) that Rocket has discussed, while at the same time it utilizes parts of the game (un-enterable buildings, beartraps and the crowbar) which right now are not really used very much.

Thanks for reading, I know that was long. Thoughts?

[The Power Nap 21]

I think most ideas posed in here are workable. But I think instancing will be something that only happens in the stand alone. I don't think ArmA 2 can handle it out of the box. I'd love to be proved wrong, though.