Encouraging Direct Communication: Sanity Meter

[kaffaljidhma 1]

Simply put, a sanity statistic that goes up whenever you hear someone's direct communication or someone hears your direct communication. Sanity goes down when nobody is around to hear you for a while, and could also be reduced by specific events. High sanity makes you more resistant to panic and/or fainting, and low sanity makes you more susceptible. Any number of delicious afflictions could happen with critical sanity.

Now for the TLDR breakdown:

This balances the metagame and increases the possibility of pickup groups without discouraging any playstyle already in existence, and also makes the zombie threat more menacing without the aid of teamwork.

People using 3rd party communications will have to learn to direct chat every now and then (which would be a boon for heavily populated teamspeak channels cluttered with frantic players in separate groups), and it would reduce the advantage they have in communication without giving away their position.

People would try to engage in conversations upon meeting a stranger instead of shooting, especially if they want to meet up but have no incentive to risk their lives. The team could still break off at any time because the bonus is persistent, so there will still be a trust issue.

Bandits would not see much of an alteration in playstyle since the majority of their loot would come from hunting other players, and not scavenging solo. Since scavenging solo would be made harder, bandits would then actually be killing for their own survival instead of just for fun, which dilutes the immersion.

A sanity meter is thematic with the mod and would help diversify playstyles and encourage emergent gameplay. Whether it changes the realism of the game, encourages specific playstyles more than the current mechanisms of food, water, and temperature, or simply makes the game too easy is up for debate.

[montauk 2]

Wow, a totally unoriginal idea!

Don't tell me what my character is thinking. I am the character, not the game.

[orbital 10]

Interesting suggestion indeed.

I don't think it would be welcomed by the majority of players though. What about those who likes to play alone, staying away from everything and everyone?

I do occasionally spend days alone. When I'm with my group, we use Teamspeak for group talk and Mumble for alliance. Never use direct voice.

Direct is a nice feature but forcing it on players like this, doesn't seem like the right solution to me.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

Wow' date=' a totally unoriginal idea!

[b']Don't tell me what my character is thinking. I am the character, not the game.

Hard to believe when everyone is part of a telepathic army.

[Dinnj 4]

A suggestion should fulfill one of two points.

Added immersion.

Better gameplay.

This doesn't add either.

Why?

Immersion - This is totally unrealistic, everyone is different. I would probably go insane being around others all the time non stop, and I would be utterly fine on my own.

Gameplay - People won't die to their insanity. They'll still shoot on sight. It adds the potential of people meeting up to chat but it also prevents lone scavenging as you said. You're discouraging some game styles are much as you encourage others. I just don't see the point.

My suggestion to you - Think about this some more. Think about a different suggestion along the same lines, i.e. one that can encourage occasional conversation and exchange with other players (Some kind of reward, human interaction does get important to everyone after some extent; ) but no punishment if you don't. The concept of making people talk to each other for some kind of incentive is a good idea. The concept of punishing people for not talking to eachother isn't.

Carrot vs stick: Carrots tend to add to game play whereas sticks tend to reduce from it.

N.B. You cannot make the carrot so good that it negatively affects people who do not take it. Keep that in mind.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

A suggestion should fulfill one of two points.

Added immersion.

Better gameplay.

This doesn't add either.

Why?

Immersion - This is totally unrealistic' date=' everyone is different. I would probably go [b']insane being around others all the time non stop, and I would be utterly fine on my own.

Gameplay - People won't die to their insanity. They'll still shoot on sight. It adds the potential of people meeting up to chat but it also prevents lone scavenging as you said. You're discouraging some game styles are much as you encourage others. I just don't see the point.

My suggestion to you - Think about this some more. Think about a different suggestion along the same lines, i.e. one that can encourage occasional conversation and exchange with other players (Some kind of reward, human interaction does get important to everyone after some extent; ) but no punishment if you don't. The concept of making people talk to each other for some kind of incentive is a good idea. The concept of punishing people for not talking to eachother isn't.

Carrot vs stick: Carrots tend to add to game play whereas sticks tend to reduce from it.

N.B. You cannot make the carrot so good that it negatively affects people who do not take it. Keep that in mind.

If you remove the negative spectrum of the direct communication meter, would that be satisfactory? The primary objective here is to eliminate the advantage of third party communication without expressly forbidding it - if people communicate, they must pay the price of being more noticeable, otherwise people will actually be punished for embracing the more realistic model of of direct speak in lieu of a chat program.

Most other limitation meters have a negative effect that governs behavior, the most obvious being temperature. It was added to the game to force survivors to sacrifice stealth or suffer the consequences and generally make night prowls harder. In fact, now that I think about, every characteristic addon should confer penalties instead of bonuses, making the game easier for freshly spawned survivors and harder for veterans. Screw the bonus, make it so people have to adapt to the unhealthy state of perpetual isolation from the rich community we take for granted, and only get reminded of what they once had with brief encounters with humanity.

Scavenging will be made harder, but it should be made harder for people who have become experts at it: if you don't die to zombies in the first 3 days of life, you will not die to zombies, unless something happens to nerf your character. Changing the zombies will not be fair to new players unless they have a starting advantage that eases them into gameplay as they get the critical survival loot. Isolation seems to be the most believable way to make this happen.

It's not perfect for the reasons you stated, but I can't really think of any other way to encourage direct chat than to make it a need. I don't believe that teamspeak ghosting will ever take off because of the security feaures inherent in third party chat programs and the fact that the majority of recruitment for these things is outside of the game entirely - this sort of metagaming is stuff that only succeeds in games like Eve Online, which has a high stakes economy system. If it does take off, though, then the chat problem is solved and nothing needs to be done about it. I just think that it won't.

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

I wish people would stop suggesting insanity - o - meters .

I don't want to be told when my character is scared or going insane. I also don't want any more shaky screen, blurry vision or hallucinations.

I also don't need arbitrary rules that force me to talk to people to lower some numbers on my HUD.

[Tyrog 10]

Don't tell me what my character is thinking. I am the character' date=' not the game.[/i']

People should understand what a RPG is. You cannot decide everything. You have to make a distinction between what is completely yours to decide and what comes with the nature of your character.

Still, this idea isn't that great.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

Insanity meter is just popular because it fits in with the theme. The most important part of this suggestion is that there's some benefit for engaging in direct communication when you choose to communicate, rather than telling a fellow survivor your mumble IP. It can go by any other name and still be the same concept and is realistic depending on whether or not you think interpersonal communication is a basic need.

There are already arbitrary rules that force you to eat, drink, warm up, get transfusions, and carry painkillers and morphine. These cause blood loss, shaky screens, blurry vision, movement impairment, cough, and loss of consciousness if not complied with.

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

I know exactly what an RPG entails. And i'm eternally glad Dayz doesn't pander to those stereotypes, no need to start adding that shit.

[Dinnj 4]

If you remove the negative spectrum of the direct communication meter' date=' would that be satisfactory?

[/quote']

Elaborate. What then is the final mechanic - as concisely as possible.

It's not perfect for the reasons you stated' date=' but I can't really think of any other way to encourage direct chat than to make it a need.

[/quote']

If you remove the negative spectrum of the direct communication meter

Like I said, adding a bonus for doing it would work. Just don't punish people artificially for some kind of obscure balancing act.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

If you remove the negative spectrum of the direct communication meter' date=' would that be satisfactory?

[/quote']

Elaborate. What then is the final mechanic - as concisely as possible.

It's not perfect for the reasons you stated' date=' but I can't really think of any other way to encourage direct chat than to make it a need.

[/quote']

If you remove the negative spectrum of the direct communication meter

Like I said' date=' adding a bonus for doing it would work. Just don't punish people artificially for some kind of obscure balancing act.

[/quote']

The bonus could be as mild as reducing the hunger and thirst rate. Decreasing the blood loss threshold to chance of knockdown or reducing the time taken to steady aim after running is a stronger effect. The bonus isn't really important as long as it's a positive incentive. In this case, it would be more of a morale meter, where just talking to people makes your character temporarily more robust.

The problem is many people feel that straight bonuses make the game too easy for veteran players and go against rocket's theme of continually screwing everybody over (winchester nerf, temp, etc), which is why I hesitate in suggesting a reward mechanic.

I don't think any of this should be implemented before side and global chat is eliminated, which could solve the problem by itself.

[montauk 2]

Don't tell me what my character is thinking. I am the character' date=' not the game.[/i']

People should understand what a RPG is. You cannot decide everything. You have to make a distinction between what is completely yours to decide and what comes with the nature of your character.

Still, this idea isn't that great.

Except DayZ isn't a fucking RPG, its a Sim.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

Don't tell me what my character is thinking. I am the character' date=' not the game.[/i']

People should understand what a RPG is. You cannot decide everything. You have to make a distinction between what is completely yours to decide and what comes with the nature of your character.

Still, this idea isn't that great.

Except DayZ isn't a fucking RPG, its a Sim.

If it's the sim part you have a problem with, you could make the argument that humans are social animals and need to communicate to preserve mental health. Some people contend that this need is of comparable importance to other biological needs and results in actual negative health manifestations when neglected. That's what a psychologist/psychiatrist would say, anyway.

[Strategos (DayZ) 190]

"If it's the sim part you have a problem with, you could make the argument that humans are social animals and need to communicate to preserve mental health. Some people contend that this need is of comparable importance to other biological needs and results in actual negative health manifestations when neglected. That's what a psychologist/psychiatrist would say, anyway."

Hahah I knew you were going to come out with that.

Seriously the game applies at least semi believable attributes to the physical act of survival. Cold, hunger, thirst , they aren't arbitrary motivations. People all over the world, all the time have endured incredible hardships on their own and survived with their mental health intact. You can't try and suggest that people will go insane if they don't talk to each other, its patently ridiculous.

In a game like Amnesia where it is telling a story and it is portraying the mind of one specific person its an acceptable mechanic.

being forced to talk to some of these people is more likely to drive a normal person insane !

[Dinnj 4]

The bonus could be as mild as reducing the hunger and thirst rate. Decreasing the blood loss threshold to chance of knockdown or reducing the time taken to steady aim after running is a stronger effect.

No' date=' you see here you're trying to hoodwink me and I don't appreciate that.

An artificial stat bonus is still a punishment for other players. In relative terms it's the same as saying "People who don't use this system have reduced chance of knockdown and increased hunger/thirst rate."

For a hilariously massive discussion on why this is true, I posted probably 1,000+ words relating to this on the general PvP discussion thread. It's basically because this game is a rivalry/excludability applicable situation. If you don't believe that giving blatant effectiveness bonuses to one group punishes those who don't get it, you are either going to have to take my word for it, find that thread, or more likely I am going to end up quoting myself here.

You have to be far more intelligent about it (I'm not saying I can do a better job, I've only ever been good at pointing out problems more so than solutions). Subtle perks that don't add [b']real effectiveness are the way to go. Cool features, fun, stuff like that. Not balance changers.

The problem is many people feel that straight bonuses make the game too easy for veteran players and go against rocket's theme of continually screwing everybody over (winchester nerf' date=' temp, etc), which is why I hesitate in suggesting a reward mechanic.

[/quote']

If we take into account what I said in the first section of this post then we can ignore this negative point. It's a good one, thanks for raising it.

Keep trying. I might not like your ideas, yet, but if you keep fine-tuning them I certainly appreciate it.

[Tyrog 10]

@ Syrasa

Take a look at the servers screen in game and let's talk about it :D

Dayz Zombie RPG? Not a RPG?

It is also a Simulator, I'll give you that. Still, you have to deal with human condition at every moment in the game : thirst, hunger, blood loss, panic sounds, disease, etc. How would it be different to add a "psychological" state?

[kaffaljidhma 1]

People all over the world' date=' all the time have endured incredible hardships on their own and survived with their mental health intact.[/quote']

That is debatable. Adverse mental health impacts are not the classical hallucinations and straitjacket stereotype in the media. Depression especially is strongly linked to a low fund of social interaction, which is also a major factor in PTSD. The increased stress reduces performance as much as many diseases. The reason it's discounted is also the reason why depression is very underdiagnosed and mental illness is so inadequately treated, especially in the United States. But this is more idea than mechanic.

You have to be far more intelligent about it (I'm not saying I can do a better job' date=' I've only ever been good at pointing out problems more so than solutions). Subtle perks that don't add [b']real effectiveness are the way to go. Cool features, fun, stuff like that. Not balance changers.

I'd really like a mechanic like that; the best thing I can think of is a placeholder humanity bonus, which currently does nothing except make you feel good about yourself. The problem is that 3rd party programs are already balance changers: players are actively punished for not participating in them, and there's nothing the game can do about it.

[montauk 2]

Don't tell me what my character is thinking. I am the character' date=' not the game.[/i']

People should understand what a RPG is. You cannot decide everything. You have to make a distinction between what is completely yours to decide and what comes with the nature of your character.

Still, this idea isn't that great.

Except DayZ isn't a fucking RPG, its a Sim.

If it's the sim part you have a problem with, you could make the argument that humans are social animals and need to communicate to preserve mental health. Some people contend that this need is of comparable importance to other biological needs and results in actual negative health manifestations when neglected. That's what a psychologist/psychiatrist would say, anyway.

I live just fine without everyday social interaction. It all depends on the type of human being you are.

If you want to seek survivors then you will seek survivors. I don't need the fucking game trying to force me to think a certain way.

@ Syrasa

Take a look at the servers screen in game and let's talk about it :D

Dayz Zombie RPG? Not a RPG?

It is also a Simulator' date=' I'll give you that. Still, you have to deal with human condition at every moment in the game : thirst, hunger, blood loss, panic sounds, disease, etc. How would it be different to add a "psychological" state?

[/quote']

Because I am the character. I wonder how nobody can understand that.

This isn't fucking WoW.

[Tyrog 10]

What do you think of your character making some panic sounds when chased by zombies? Isn't that forcing you to do something YOUR character wouldn't? Well, that's called realism.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

I suppose the most thematic way to apply this without arbitrarily impacting gameplay is to have direct communication reduce panic (which just increases hunger and thirst rates) or have a lack of direct communication increase panic. It's like using an antibiotic to cure sickness, and panic is a milder disadvantage more attributable to mental health.

All I'm trying to do is incentivize people who already group up to use in game chat rather than obligate a third party solution.

[Tyrog 10]

Actually, the "need to speak" isn't really a problem for a short period of time (31 min average survival time)... Maybe it will for 2 weeks without speaking to anyone. Also, don't forget that we can only consider actual playing hours.

But I like the idea of healthy interactions with other people having a beneficial effect on characters.

[duddbudda 33]

People should understand what a RPG is. You cannot decide everything. You have to make a distinction between what is completely yours to decide and what comes with the nature of your character

yes you absolutely can

unfortunately, D&D's mechanical stat tables have been crammed into vidya by shitty DM's like Blizzaware and Sqeenix

now the neophobic industry caters to the stunted imaginations of consumers, like yourself, who have never played a role they weren't channeled into by the design

but D&D style role play doesn't work because the stats tell you who you are; the stats measure a person's capacities (their physical reality), the player gives them purpose. Not just direction, the player decides their hopes, idiosyncracies, every facet of their character (their concious reality).

A good DM lets a player have free reign over their character's character. Vidya generally doesn't - people tend to believe it is a consequence of the medium.

DayZ is one of the few vidya games able to bridge the divide between player and character. I could go to some length on why, but this post is already stupid long, so you'll just have to accept it.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

People should understand what a RPG is. You cannot decide everything. You have to make a distinction between what is completely yours to decide and what comes with the nature of your character

yes you absolutely can

unfortunately' date=' D&D's mechanical stat tables have been crammed into vidya by shitty DM's like Blizzaware and Sqeenix

now the neophobic industry caters to the stunted imaginations of consumers, like yourself, who have never played a role they weren't channeled into by the design

[to whom it may concern; I have nothing against D&D's design, indeed I enjoy the GrimDark incarnation Inquistor, I just don't believe it's the only way to do this']

That is assuming you're able to absolutely control your mental state. Characteristics that translate poorly between the character and the player must be simulated. Hunger, thirst, and temperature are no-brainers. Mental fatigue and stress are more debatable, and i would say less effective to transmit to a person comfortably sitting in a chair in front of a computer.

But again, the key rationale behind this suggestion is not to simulate insanity but to reduce the incentive to metagame instead of utilizing in-game resources.

[Dinnj 4]

Realism = making everyone react the same

whut

l2rp

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