Humanity

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

If the humanity score is going to stay, then why not have a system where you accumulate another player's humanity when you kill them (positive accumulation if you kill a bandit, negative if you kill a survivor)?

For example:

Joe is a survivor with a humanity score of 1000

Chris is a bandit with a humanity score of -2000

If Joe kills Chris, his score rises to 3000 and if Chris kills Joe, Joe's decreases to -3000.

With this system, it's more realistic because you gain more notoriety based on who you kill, not just everyone being equal.

[Minamo 114]

So if someone kills me with -530.000 humanity as i have right now?

They'll recive +530.000 Humanity? am i getting this correct..

[Bratalise 26]

I like that idea. If I'm a hero and i kill badass bandit dude over there then my humanity should go up and vice versa if bandit over here kills hero savoir guy then he should lose more humanity. Win win take some beans

Quick edit what if a bandit kills another bandit? does his humanity go down or up and by how much?

Edited September 2, 2012 by Bratalise

[The True Nova 22]

I would rather have your humanity go up a little bit if you killed a bandit and by a little bit I meant about 100-200; similar to how giving blood transfusions work.

[Welch (DayZ) 756]

It'd make getting a skin way too easy. I think it's fine as is.

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

So if someone kills me with -530.000 humanity as i have right now?

They'll recive +530.000 Humanity? am i getting this correct..

Right.

If a bandit kills a bandit, the accumulation would be positive, so their score would move closer to zero.

[M4V3R1CK (DayZ) 11]

If the humanity score is going to stay, then why not have a system where you accumulate another player's humanity when you kill them (positive accumulation if you kill a bandit, negative if you kill a survivor)?

For example:

Joe is a survivor with a humanity score of 1000

Chris is a bandit with a humanity score of -2000

If Joe kills Chris, his score rises to 3000 and if Chris kills Joe, Joe's decreases to -3000.

With this system, it's more realistic because you gain more notoriety based on who you kill, not just everyone being equal.

ehh more team death match much?

[sheriffhd 61]

I killed a player the other day and my humanity went down to 300 (From 2500) so is it not already kinda in the game?

[Kawllie 18]

I killed a player the other day and my humanity went down to 300 (From 2500) so is it not already kinda in the game?

He want you to gain humanity by killing bandits.

And for the record i now have over 25000 humanity and i still think that killing bandits should lower you humanity unless the person already shot you.

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

I killed a player the other day and my humanity went down to 300 (From 2500) so is it not already kinda in the game?

It is, but what I'm suggesting is that if you kill a bandit who's been terrorizing the server and has a score of -25,000 or something and you kill him, you now have 25,000 added to your score as a positive value. In other words, you've in sense become a 'hero' for taking down a notorious bandit.

[dutch_miller 159]

It would make skin boosting very very easy. Say you are in a bandit clan and you want the hero skin so people think you will help them out. Your clan friend has -100k+ humanity, all you have to do is kill him a few times and boom you've got 200k+ humanity and now you can kill hundreds of average survivors who have low humanity without losing your skin. And even if you happen to kill a hero who is some sort of counter-sniper with 500k+ humanity (highly unlikely), kill your buddy a few more times and no problems.

[Kraorr 6]

Random wall of text guy inc!

How about 2 new skin codes according on your actions for both opposite sides?

For example after reaching a certain amount of points independent from humanity (would mean another value term would have to be implemented) for killing bandits, you get say, the imaginary "enforcer" skin. You could have a second cap that you could reach like dunno, sheriff or whatever. The gaps would need to take some time but not too much, or at least if you enact in a contradictive way of your behaving efforts, to drop down skin status faster than it is to raise them in order to discourage shady behavior, or more like a one trick pony move that comes with a cost.

It could basically be a factor parallel to humanity - solely depending on your types of kills; however where it would converge with the humanity once both have reached specific scores. It would basically give people more readability on someone's behavior. They would recognize people that do not necessarily provide help, but who strives only to take out bandits. They would recognize someone with the pacifist and peachy, helpful demeanor and who do not shoot anyone, letting even the most aggressive types of players a garantee that if those types of players see them, that not a single would happen, resulting in them having (oh the relief of the overly KoS cautious players...) not to shoot at them because that person would even help *them*.

Negative scores could have new identities as well; people with a high kill value with a non existent help score (how humanity is working at the moment) would let people know those possible lone killing wolves, etc. Depending on how much depth you'd want to include into this idea might become hard to implement. The only downside to the idea imo is that if it would happen, being able to have an accurate read of players will lessen the unpredictable, tense flavor DayZ has. Flavor's a key word there.

In a nutshell, you would have 3 new categories of skin behavior codes:

_Humanity Hero into (lol)Medic or sumfin' xD

_Kill type Enforcer into sheriff for the "bad guy killer", Bandit into some psycho looking guy

_Mix of both That also means that the humanity value would no longer be influenced by the kills, as the Kill would be one whole different thing.

Then maybe if you really wanna push things even further, a unique skin for serial killers (who even shoot medics, symbol of unconditional kindness) and so forth.

Hell, maybe even for people who only enact neutral go through other civilian clothing and someone running only, never helping nor killing, have a skin of its own too... they'd represent the ones that live away from everything, untrusting of what humanity has become to, an idle witness of the catastrophe (zomg le drama huehuehue)

So to sum up (just repeating myself lol sorry) it would be complicated to implement and probably swoop the unpredictability the other players might have. They could still do it but enacting contrary to the majority of their playstyle will hamper it, losing swiftly their clothing code and becoming misunderstood.

On another hand, if the game should keep the way it is working now with the skins, I think the players would need some extra incentive to decide what kind way they wish to play, some sort of other motivation than cosmetics and bonuses. That is already implemented in a sense but I was imagining other minor things, while still remaining exclusive to their own humanity caps. A hero would see some loots others wouldn't and only them could use them - it could just be only extra food that only they could have, or if risking pushing, having for example some botanic skills, being able to concoct brews, etc. Bandits could find/make hollow bullets and other artisanal items designed to do their deeds. But it's hard to come up with cool ideas that would bring more uniqueness for each (neutral included!!) without risking to compromise ingame mechanics that would incite people to enact differently, simply by pure choice of interest from what type of humanity provides you over choosing to act in that manner simply because that's how you sincerely want to play the game, or to mind trick people.

On the other hand, it could help a bit on the devious minds who wish to abuse their appearance. (the ever so hero that is not so hero, being a bandit mole and such.) It really depends on the team making the game the concept they have of it and what they wish to do to make it happen.

However there is one thing I hope: should you be able to domesticate dogs/any other kind of animals that you can find in the game, that depending on whether you are bandit, neutral or hero, the animal could be taught a "trick" (specifically referring to the dogs acutally) exclusive to your alignment.

Needless to ask: "could you teach all three tricks to your dog if you change your humanity values?" "Can it be worked on with the same dog as long as it does not die, despite you dying?" "Is it possible only with one single life?" "Would the trick be a one-time decision and thus make your dog able to only do this trick, as if locked for gameplay reasons?" Things like that. I was imagining bandits being able to have a dog that can track other players tracks or have some kind of attacking assistance, neutrals get dogs that could find a specific item "find drugs!" it would need something vague to make the dog come back with a goof'ed find... ^_^ Hero dogs warning them of nearby players, growling and pointing in the direction of possible bandit threat, or able to deliver private messages to a designed player if seen on sight... Dammit too much fantasms for this game. I haz to stop le typing!

If you had a headache after reading this, just know that should the game have aspirin, I would find you and give it to you, or sneakily drop them in a place I'm anticipating you to come to in the near future... :3

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

It would make skin boosting very very easy. Say you are in a bandit clan and you want the hero skin so people think you will help them out. Your clan friend has -100k+ humanity, all you have to do is kill him a few times and boom you've got 200k+ humanity and now you can kill hundreds of average survivors who have low humanity without losing your skin. And even if you happen to kill a hero who is some sort of counter-sniper with 500k+ humanity (highly unlikely), kill your buddy a few more times and no problems.

I should add that I also think humanity should reset to zero when you die (if it already does, forgive me, I haven't died recently lol), which would counteract this problem. Why should it reset? Because while the player's mentality hasn't changed (a bandit is most likely going to go on being a bandit in a new game), the humanity score is just that...a score. So when you die, your score is reset and you have to work to gain it back. Think of my suggestion as a currency system.

In the case of a clan friend killing his buddy intentionally to gain survivor status, that guy will lose all of his humanity to his friend when he starts a new game, so there's no real benefit. And if bandits want to kill bandits, well, that's a form of justice because they're not killing innocent people.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Marshmallow

[Kawllie 18]

I should add that I also think humanity should reset to zero when you die (if it already does, forgive me, I haven't died recently lol), which would counteract this problem. Why should it reset? Because while the player's mentality hasn't changed (a bandit is most likely going to go on being a bandit in a new game), the humanity score is just that...a score. So when you die, your score is reset and you have to work to gain it back. Think of my suggestion as a currency system.

In the case of a clan friend killing his buddy intentionally to gain survivor status, that guy will lose all of his humanity to his friend when he starts a new game, so there's no real benefit. And if bandits want to kill bandits, well, that's a form of justice because they're not killing innocent people.

Then nobody whould want to be hero, you might die "not shooting" someone but you still have your reward for being nice?

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

Then nobody whould want to be hero, you might die "not shooting" someone but you still have your reward for being nice?

That's an inherent risk one takes when you're survivor anyway. You weigh your options of whether or not you can trust someone and if you can't, take the shot and live with the consequences. But when you die, that's game over. You pick a new gender and you're back on the coast with a flashlight, so it doesn't make much sense that your new character retains the credentials of your old character.

[dutch_miller 159]

That's an inherent risk one takes when you're survivor anyway. You weigh your options of whether or not you can trust someone and if you can't, take the shot and live with the consequences. But when you die, that's game over. You pick a new gender and you're back on the coast with a flashlight, so it doesn't make much sense that your new character retains the credentials of your old character.

There's no point to humanity then. The idea is that your actions have longer lasting consequences because of how easy it is to die in this game. If I lost my hero skin every time I died I wouldn't care about getting it anymore, because I know it's temporary. And like you said, intentions don't change; don't just overlook that statement. That's the most important and really only part of the humanity system. It attempts to give a quick at-a-glance showing of the players intentions.

If humanity reset every death I would say it's basically useless. No it's not realistic that your old character is the same as the new one, but at some point you have to draw the line between realism and the fact that it is a game, and no matter how much you make it seem like real life it is and always will be a game.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Dutch Miller

[partvi 4]

I take it humanity persists through death?

Cause that super-increasing dealy will quickly mean astronomical scores that could eventually just be too much for the servers to keep track of. It'd have to go away on death for anything even remotely like OP's post to work.

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

I take it humanity persists through death?

Cause that super-increasing dealy will quickly mean astronomical scores that could eventually just be too much for the servers to keep track of. It'd have to go away on death for anything even remotely like OP's post to work.

That's true. I think my idea would become very unbalanced over time. I don't think it'd work.

[The_Dude (DayZ) 27]

What exactly does humanity do for a player anyway? (dumb question Im sure)

[hoik 415]

There's no point to humanity then. The idea is that your actions have longer lasting consequences because of how easy it is to die in this game. If I lost my hero skin every time I died I wouldn't care about getting it anymore, because I know it's temporary. And like you said, intentions don't change; don't just overlook that statement. That's the most important and really only part of the humanity system. It attempts to give a quick at-a-glance showing of the players intentions.

If humanity reset every death I would say it's basically useless. No it's not realistic that your old character is the same as the new one, but at some point you have to draw the line between realism and the fact that it is a game, and no matter how much you make it seem like real life it is and always will be a game.

Your right, without long term effects 'humanity' is pointless - IMO the way dayZ is trying to impose morals on the players is way off the mark - 'humanity', whatever that is, can not be implemented as a 'hard - coded' rule which the game dictates to you. The focus IMO should be on creating tools that the player can use to 'remember' players they meet - though of course there is still the problem of info on individuals being lost when they die as technically when they respawn they are a 'new' character - when practicaly they are not.

So here is my suggestion, replace 'humanity' (a vague, undifinable concept) with causality ( a logical, undisputable conciquence to our actions) - and make it global causality.

Here's a what I mean: Make the communal actions of every player have an acumilative effect on the world over time - If the game is in a state of high PvP on average then the loot table and zombie spawns are effected accordingly.

Eg: More death = more zombies.

Less mouths to feed = higher loot drops/spawning

This can also go the otherway

Eg Less Deaths = less zombies.

More mouths to feed = lower loot drops/spawning

This allows players actions have an effect on both themselves and those around them - which is the key IMO to making people give a shit about how they conduct themselves( if not for the sake of others, then at the least for how others might react) - and as it is effecting the game world and not some personal atribute, the effects of their actions will have concequences beyond any single life.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Hoik

[Kawllie 18]

Your right, without long term effects 'humanity' is pointless - IMO the way dayZ is trying to impose morals on the players is way off the mark - 'humanity', whatever that is, can not be implemented as a 'hard - coded' rule which the game dictates to you. The focus IMO should be on creating tools that the player can use to 'remember' players they meet - though of course there is still the problem of info on individuals being lost when they die as technically when they respawn they are a 'new' character - when practicaly they are not.

So here is my suggestion, replace 'humanity' (a vague, undifinable concept) with causality ( a logical, undisputable conciquence to our actions) - and make it global causality.

Here's a what I mean: Make the communal actions of every player have an acumilative effect on the world over time - If the game is in a state of high PvP on average then the loot table and zombie spawns are effected accordingly.

Eg: More death = more zombies.

Less mouths to feed = higher loot drops/spawning

This can also go the otherway

Eg Less Deaths = less zombies.

More mouths to feed = lower loot drops/spawning

This allows players actions have an effect on both themselves and those around them - which is the key IMO to making people give a shit about how they conduct themselves( if not for the sake of others, then at the least for how others might react) - and as it is effecting the game world and not some personal atribute, the effects of their actions will have concequences beyond any single life.

But why would you play with friends for example if you know that the chances for end-loot is lower? The whole idea with clans rading airfields for loot will be lost,which i find is a big part of the experience.

[hoik 415]

But why would you play with friends for example if you know that the chances for end-loot is lower? The whole idea with clans rading airfields for loot will be lost,which i find is a big part of the experience.

Ok, what if when the loot is abundant (high PvP) the chance for 'essential' items is high but 'exotic' ones is low.

Then, at the other end of the scale, scarce loot (low PvP), the chance of 'exotic' items is high and the 'essential' items are low.

I reason this into the story of the game by assuming that low PvP = more advanced culture/knowledge and this is the reason that more exotic weapons increase as PvP reduces. You may disagree :) .

Besides, the idea is causalty, not 'but I want to play with my friends'. The world couldn't care less about you and your friends than a bandit does. There wil still be 'essential' loot out there - but it might be in your best friends backpack - and he might not want to share...

EDIT - I don't want to highjack this thread - if you want to talk about this idea I suggest going to the first link in my signiture.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Hoik

[slartibartfast (DayZ) 77]

So if someone kills me with -530.000 humanity as i have right now?

They'll recive +530.000 Humanity? am i getting this correct..

Ok - I can't see my humanity score. How do you know your humanity is -530,000?

Edited September 10, 2012 by slartibartfast

[slartibartfast (DayZ) 77]

But why would you play with friends for example if you know that the chances for end-loot is lower? The whole idea with clans rading airfields for loot will be lost,which i find is a big part of the experience.

Why do you need a clan for anything?

Clans are for lazy bustards that can't be arsed hunting and gathering their own gear.

Tonight I have been in all the major airfields, and a fair few of the rest of the military spawn areas, in a four hour visit to chernarus. I don't have any vehicles, I did it all on foot, I do not belong to a clan.

I have had enough time to create 4 loot piles(for respawn purposes) and get everything that I need to survive quite handsomly(I also had to respawn medical twice for antibiotics after getting an infection).

I managed a little indulgence by slaughtering 200 infected whilst I was at it.

You can keep clans - I have never survived more than one session when teaming up.

Edited September 10, 2012 by slartibartfast