To Put It Bluntly- DayZ Is Too Easy

[Zetal 90]

After several weeks of not touching DayZ because, simply put, me and my friends had "Beaten" it, I decided to come back to the game today and try and make it more interesting. Before I discuss that, however, let's address something. When I say that I've "Beaten" DayZ, I mean that it is trivial to attain food, (Matches, Axe, Knife, and plentiful livestock) water(water bottles and a nearby source), and shelter(tent/nearby warehouse/several cars). As well, the chance of player interaction is so abysmally slim, that it is, realistically speaking, nonexistent. For obvious reasons, my friends and I had no interest for logging in just to go hunting and take a drink of water. It isn't exciting. So, we won. We rebuild society, GG guys.

Which brings me to the main point, here. DayZ is way, way too easy. From a games perspective, from an anti-game perspective, and from an authenticity perspective.

Much of what I'm going to say here is going to be repeats of ideas that have already been stated, to varying degrees, and definitely issues that have been brought up before. Try to bear with me. I understand entirely how much of a nuisance it is to re-read material, but the fact is that it clearly has yet to be noted by Rocket, since he seems to be a bit too busy on his Media tour.

Point 1) Zombies are pathetic.

This one seems pretty obvious. The zombies in this game are almost never a threat, unless you don't have a weapon, and even then you can still easily evade them. This is a huge issue, as it completely breaks immersion and the authenticity of the game, while also just making it too easy to acquire loot.

Point 2) Survival is too easy

Again, pretty obvious but I guess it could be missed if you're a newer/casual player. When I play, I usually play for 4-5 hours or so, and at the end of each session, I have all the materials needed to survive forever, and then some. That fact alone isn't too awful, but I usually attain these materials literally by just running from zombies and casually ignoring any threats.

Point 3) "But players make it hard!"

Not really. If I ever make the mistake of running into a player, I can usually kill them, bandage myself, and devour a cow. Bam, all set. This point is usually very disputed, but almost always, I can either just avoid them by laying near a bush, or kill them, if I really need to. I only bring this up in anticipation of a counter-argument, and thought I'd just put it to rest early.

Now that the main issues have been laid out (there are others, but in my opinion they are either subsets of these, or unimportant) it's high time I actually got to the suggesting part of thing increasingly long topic.

---------SUGGESTIONS START HERE; IF TL;DR, JUST READ BELOW------------

Suggestion 1) More authentic combat

This would start by introducing enhanced zombie attacks without making it "gamey". Zombies will be able to 'tackle' (player is forced to the prone position), which would allow for zombies to be considered a much greater threat. This mechanic would have a reach slightly longer than their standard attack, and would be usable even if the player is running from the zombie. Making zombies a greater threat brings back the feeling you might remember when you first started playing- the respect for your own life, and how to keep it.

Suggestion 2) Survival

I'm just going to combine a few basic steps here to try and alleviate the ease of survival that currently exists. This is an apocalypse. Authentically, it's not exactly EASY to survive in that kind of situation. Obviously, we have no true 'apocalypse' to base this off of, but the terrible events that have already happened on smaller scales can be learned from. The purification of water, for example, would be a very important part of living in a post-apocalyptic world. There could be two methods- boiling water, using a fire and a water bottle, or purification tablets that could be found and used once per item. Ideally, they would be stackable in the inventory, but since we have no evidence of that kind of item being possible in the mod, just one will do.

Furthermore, the acquisition of food is too simple and easy. In my opinion, meat should be changed to take two inventory spaces, and matches should have a random (1 in 100) chance of being destroyed when they're used, but players should also be able to hold more than one box of matches. Obviously an entire box of matches won't just vanish, but it's meant as a way to simulate the number of matches in the box. Again, the ideal situation would just be a stack of them that you can keep track of and use, but if this isn't possible, it isn't possible.

Diseases are a small nuisance as of now, but if they were buffed, and given more types and variations (Infection, Sickness(of varying extremes), Poisoned), it would make having shelter a much more important part of the game, resulting in more player interaction and desperation if you aren't set up.

Suggestion 3) Weapons

As of right now, unless you just get bored and decide to go player hunting, there is no reason to use guns. "What?" all the new players say! Yes, it's true. The hatchet is your best friend. If you ever need to kill a zombie, find a doorway/staircase, and swing away to your hearts content without taking any damage, and being completely silent. I'm not going to suggest that hatchets be made useless, but instead changed to three body shots to kill (random chance to find a vital organ simulated) and one headshot to kill. The crowbar should be 4 body shots to kill, and one headshot, but have slightly longer range and faster swing speed.

All this goes along with drastically decreasing the spawn rates of items (food, drink, ammo), so as to pressure players to constantly be on the move.

Thoughts?

Thanks for reading!

If you didn't, screw you. D:<

Edit/Update:

Hey guys, this topic is a bit old but I feel it still illustrates the same bloody issues that are in the game to this day. So I figured I'd just go ahead and leave a video recording me and a friend made to try and show comprehensively what the issues are. Hopefully it gets the point across.

Many parts are VERY VERY boring, because it's DayZ and that's just how it is. Feel free to skip around/skim. We also had some video issues at many parts. Try to bear with us.

Part 1:

Part 2:

I guess it partially doubles as a 'How-to' guide on playing DayZ lol We almost always find cars with little-to-no damage or deaths within a few hours.

Thoughts? I really think this should make the issues quite clear.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Zetal

[The Aquatic Land Walrus 565]

After several weeks of not touching DayZ because, simply put, me and my friends had "Beaten" it, I decided to come back to the game today and try and make it more interesting. Before I discuss that, however, let's address something. When I say that I've "Beaten" DayZ, I mean that it is trivial to attain food, (Matches, Axe, Knife, and plentiful livestock) water(water bottles and a nearby source), and shelter(tent/nearby warehouse/several cars). As well, the chance of player interaction is so abysmally slim, that it is, realistically speaking, nonexistent. For obvious reasons, my friends and I had no interest for logging in just to go hunting and take a drink of water. It isn't exciting. So, we won. We rebuild society, GG guys.

Which brings me to the main point, here. DayZ is way, way too easy. From a games perspective, from an anti-game perspective, and from an authenticity perspective.

Much of what I'm going to say here is going to be repeats of ideas that have already been stated, to varying degrees, and definitely issues that have been brought up before. Try to bear with me. I understand entirely how much of a nuisance it is to re-read material, but the fact is that it clearly has yet to be noted by Rocket, since he seems to be a bit too busy on his Media tour.

Point 1) Zombies are pathetic.

This one seems pretty obvious. The zombies in this game are almost never a threat, unless you don't have a weapon, and even then you can still easily evade them. This is a huge issue, as it completely breaks immersion and the authenticity of the game, while also just making it too easy to acquire loot.

Point 2) Survival is too easy

Again, pretty obvious but I guess it could be missed if you're a newer/casual player. When I play, I usually play for 4-5 hours or so, and at the end of each session, I have all the materials needed to survive forever, and then some. That fact alone isn't too awful, but I usually attain these materials literally by just running from zombies and casually ignoring any threats.

Point 3) "But players make it hard!"

Not really. If I ever make the mistake of running into a player, I can usually kill them, bandage myself, and devour a cow. Bam, all set. This point is usually very disputed, but almost always, I can either just avoid them by laying near a bush, or kill them, if I really need to. I only bring this up in anticipation of a counter-argument, and thought I'd just put it to rest early.

Now that the main issues have been laid out (there are others, but in my opinion they are either subsets of these, or unimportant) it's high time I actually got to the suggesting part of thing increasingly long topic.

---------SUGGESTIONS START HERE; IF TL;DR, JUST READ BELOW------------

Suggestion 1) More authentic combat

This would start by introducing enhanced zombie attacks without making it "gamey". Zombies will be able to 'tackle' (player is forced to the prone position), which would allow for zombies to be considered a much greater threat. This mechanic would have a reach slightly longer than their standard attack, and would be usable even if the player is running from the zombie. Making zombies a greater threat brings back the feeling you might remember when you first started playing- the respect for your own life, and how to keep it.

Suggestion 2) Survival

I'm just going to combine a few basic steps here to try and alleviate the ease of survival that currently exists. This is an apocalypse. Authentically, it's not exactly EASY to survive in that kind of situation. Obviously, we have no true 'apocalypse' to base this off of, but the terrible events that have already happened on smaller scales can be learned from. The purification of water, for example, would be a very important part of living in a post-apocalyptic world. There could be two methods- boiling water, using a fire and a water bottle, or purification tablets that could be found and used once per item. Ideally, they would be stackable in the inventory, but since we have no evidence of that kind of item being possible in the mod, just one will do.

Furthermore, the acquisition of food is too simple and easy. In my opinion, meat should be changed to take two inventory spaces, and matches should have a random (1 in 100) chance of being destroyed when they're used, but players should also be able to hold more than one box of matches. Obviously an entire box of matches won't just vanish, but it's meant as a way to simulate the number of matches in the box. Again, the ideal situation would just be a stack of them that you can keep track of and use, but if this isn't possible, it isn't possible.

Diseases are a small nuisance as of now, but if they were buffed, and given more types and variations (Infection, Sickness(of varying extremes), Poisoned), it would make having shelter a much more important part of the game, resulting in more player interaction and desperation if you aren't set up.

Suggestion 3) Weapons

As of right now, unless you just get bored and decide to go player hunting, there is no reason to use guns. "What?" all the new players say! Yes, it's true. The hatchet is your best friend. If you ever need to kill a zombie, find a doorway/staircase, and swing away to your hearts content without taking any damage, and being completely silent. I'm not going to suggest that hatchets be made useless, but instead changed to three body shots to kill (random chance to find a vital organ simulated) and one headshot to kill. The crowbar should be 4 body shots to kill, and one headshot, but have slightly longer range and faster swing speed.

All this goes along with drastically decreasing the spawn rates of items (food, drink, ammo), so as to pressure players to constantly be on the move.

Thoughts?

Thanks for reading!

If you didn't, screw you. D:<

Making food be more rare would help in a few ways.

One: Make hunting more neccesary.

Two: Encourage trade. Abanditry. :c.

Also, rocket was planning on adding more realisim to the game (Heatstroke, poisons and wound infections, gauze etc).

Your point is valid. I have the following:Winchester, revolver, all tools but the toolbox and GPS, and just about all the food and water and ammo i could need. I always have 4 mags for my guns. If not, i find some

I dont know about things like the STANG rounds and the AKM rounds, but the pellets and slugs are THE most common thing to be found, besides trash, and should be lessened to become a 25% chance for 2 rounds, 15% chance for 8, 10% chance for 15.

[Olisonera 126]

Have some Beans.

Something I'd add to the survival aspect. There should be a chance of getting sick upon eating hunted meat which increases while the meat is kept in the inventory. Also, there really aught to be a 'hygene' and 'fatigue' metre... These two have as major an effect on ones ability to survive as hunger and thirst.

And weapons... It would add to the difficulty and the value of ammunition if, instead of finding full magazines you found two or three bullets which need to be combined with a magazine before they can be used in a gun.

[jdblair5 170]

Also, rocket was planning on adding more realisim to the game (Heatstroke, poisons and wound infections, gauze etc).

I hope not. That's just more mundane shit you can do in Sims. And more shit that could be broken. Playing a survival sim is one thing, having wipe my ass and wash my hands is another.

Increase the zombie count dramatically. Increase their health dramatically. Reduce weapon spawns and ammunition spawns. Reduce food spawns. Whole bunch of things that can be done without cluttering the GUI with bullshit Icons telling me how to micromanage my survivor avatar.

[Lights Out 141]

I would tweak some easy things to make zombies more difficult whether it's for the standalone or mod. 1) You shouldn't be able to sprint forever. Knowing you can't simply run away would make you much more cautious around zombies. 2) Zombies should travel more as a pack, alert one and every zombie within the small vicinity would be alerted. Shoot a gun and every zombie in earshot will be drawn to the location of the gun shot. This combined with having a realistic amount of time before you are out of breath and can't sprint will make zombies that much more of a threat. Plus increase the zombie count.

I also would definitely do a one hit kill to the head however body shots would take multiple hits.

I don't know about the knockdown thing as it could be a very glitchy action. Could lead to many moments of "he barely touched me or how do they knock me down so easily and consistently". Not to mention you should be able to shake some tackles off. Want to make close quarter interaction dangerous? Make the virus transmissible. Everytime you are attacked by a zombie there is an X% chance for you to be infected. From here you now have a certain amount of time to find antibiotics before the virus takes over and your body turns into a reanimated zombie NPC.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Lights Out

[Bratalise 26]

These are all things i expect to see in the standalone. I want zombies buffed, its a zombie survival game not a bandit survival game your biggest threat should be zombies, everyone should have to obey the zombie threat. Gunshots should attract zombies from all directions they shouldn't aggro but if you shoot something you better think of a way out before the Zed swarm you and eat you.

[bazbake 456]

There are two kinds of easy. There's the easy that comes with how the game was designed and there is the easy that comes with how players have worked around the game's limitations.

• Wikis + maps. So...this is cheating. Seriously, why do people not realize that they're cheating when they use this stuff?
  
• Mumble + Team Speak. Yeah, that's also cheating. There are direct chat limits for a reason.
  
• Going on forums and asking for help. Yep, you're still cheating.
  

Now, with that out of the way we can talk about the actual difficulty of the game itself as designed.

After several weeks of not touching DayZ because, simply put, me and my friends had "Beaten" it, I decided to come back to the game today and try and make it more interesting.

I made a post about this once, but every suggestion on these boards for making the game more difficult boils down to: "Bored now. Buff me. Nerf noobs."

Fuck that. Buff noobs and zombies, NERF ENDGAME CONTENT.

Decrease the damage of sniper rifles to about 4,000-5,000. Buff pistols and revolvers to 2,000-3,000. Buff zombies to 12,000 blood and triple the audible range of firearms. And for the cherry on top, throw out tents and vehicle storage. Watch veterans, overnight, shit themselves over every single rustle in the trees.

It'd be hilarious and would give them everything they claim they want. Just read the boards about broken tents, "I can't even play this game. The tents are broken, and I can't risk permadeath!"

Edited September 2, 2012 by BazBake

[Zetal 90]

There are two kinds of easy. There's the easy that comes with how the game was designed and there is the easy that comes with how players have worked around the game's limitations.

• Wikis + maps. So...this is cheating. Seriously, why do people not realize that they're cheating when they use this stuff?
  
• Mumble + Team Speak. Yeah, that's also cheating. There are direct chat limits for a reason.
  
• Going on forums and asking for help. Yep, you're still cheating.
  

Now, with that out of the way we can talk about the actual difficulty of the game itself as designed.

I made a post about this once, but every suggestion on these boards for making the game more difficult boils down to: "Bored now. Buff me. Nerf noobs."

Fuck that. Buff noobs and zombies, NERF ENDGAME CONTENT.

Decrease the damage of sniper rifles to about 4,000-5,000. Buff pistols and revolvers to 2,000-3,000. Buff zombies to 12,000 damage and the audible range of firearms to three times as far. Throw out tents and vehicle storage. Watch veterans, overnight, start shitting themselves over every single rustle in the trees.

There are better ways to fix the problems you bring up without punishing the authenticity of the game, and people who actually want to try and survive.

[bazbake 456]

Let's be honest. Most of the people who post on these boards don't want a hardcore game (I separate this from people who vote in polls, since they skew much closer to big swinging ball territory and are far more eager to throw stuff out, eat dirt, and piss blood for the sake of an anti-game). They want a game that is entertaining and makes them feel powerful. A hardcore game would make them feel desperate and powerless.

Newbs already feel desperate and powerless. Now it's our turn. So if you claim to want to improve the experience, the desperation, and the fear for people who play at your level, then you should stay the heck away from anything involving new players and focus on yourself. Focus on what makes the game easy for you. Focus on what it is that you have that makes it easier for you to survive and say, "Wow...I seriously need to be fucked sideways until I'm screaming for mercy...guess people like me need to lose this list of advantages..."

If you want to try and survive, then you need to increase the try, not the survive. Otherwise you could just log off and stop playing.

[Zetal 90]

I don't think it matters what most of the people think they want. Rocket gave us DayZ, and only then did we decide we wanted it. Imo, "Most" of the people are lying to themselves. Make the game harder. Make it harsher. Make it hell, and you won't lose anything good, and gain all of it.

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

On the point of survival, I think when more interior spaces are opened in the standalone, loot will be scattered more thoroughly. Right now it's easy because there are only a handful of places to find equipment and they're easy to identify. With more areas to explore, I'm hoping that means less chances to find loot, thus more difficult to survive.

All in all, DayZ is just a game. I think the mechanics are fine for what they are and if they are identical in the standalone, that's fine with me. I'm not up for spending 5 hours just to get on my feet only to be taken down by an invisible sniper a minute later. The game's design to allows players to pick up easily after re-spawning because death is so rapid and unpredictable.

[Zetal 90]

"DayZ is just a game" I see this a lot, and that's you're opinion, but Rocket disagrees. He has said so repeatedly.

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

"DayZ is just a game" I see this a lot, and that's you're opinion, but Rocket disagrees. He has said so repeatedly.

Hey, I'm all for Rocket making the game as difficult as he pleases, I look forward to it, but I guess my point was the game is enjoyable as it is.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Marshmallow

[Zetal 90]

I'm glad it is for you, I actually really am- I just derive no amusement from it. There is nothing left to do, and this would be the same with or without tents, vehicles, or snipers. I don't even use a sniper. I play DayZ for the challenge of surviving in a hostile environment- and that challenge has quickly dissolved, leaving me with an empty game. When I play DayZ now, I limit myself on purpose to try and find amusement, such as not using guns, or only using guns, or not using a backpack... But that eventually gets easy, too.

In the end, I hope DayZ is improved as much as it can be.

And don't get me started on the standalone. *eyeroll*

Edited September 2, 2012 by Zetal

[Delta Smoke 01 765]

You have never beaten dayz. There is always someone out there that beats you. Get your squad and go seek out some serious trouble. By what you posted you havnt even scratched the surface on anti-clan warfare.

[IIxSubmarinex 13]

Amen

[Zetal 90]

You have never beaten dayz. There is always someone out there that beats you. Get your squad and go seek out some serious trouble. By what you posted you havnt even scratched the surface on anti-clan warfare.

Why would I want to? In an authentic survivalistic apocalypse, what reason would I have to seek out and specifically attract the possibility of death for no gain? This really seems like a similar answer along the lines of "Well just get a sniper and go camp cherno, it's fun I guess".

Edit: Also, I feel like a jerk pointing this out, but it seems as if you either didn't read my main post, or skimmed it. The first post explains what I mean when I say I've beaten it, and it indicates that I'm not interested in unnecessary PvP just for fun.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Zetal

[bazbake 456]

I don't think it matters what most of the people think they want. Rocket gave us DayZ, and only then did we decide we wanted it. Imo, "Most" of the people are lying to themselves. Make the game harder. Make it harsher. Make it hell, and you won't lose anything good, and gain all of it.

Dude, I thought I was pretty clear. You're most of the people that post here. You're the one who needs to be nerfed but is afraid to actually nerf himself in any substantive way and is busy blaming hatchets. You need to just accept that what would make the game more interesting would be to have gun damage flattened and audible sounds increased, your tents gone, your crutches and training wheels snapped and crushed and broken. None of your suggestions for making the game harder would even affect you. That's a pretty obvious tell right there.

Edited September 2, 2012 by BazBake

[Marshmallow (DayZ) 33]

Why would I want to? In an authentic survivalistic apocalypse, what reason would I have to seek out and specifically attract the possibility of death for no gain? This really seems like a similar answer along the lines of "Well just get a sniper and go camp cherno, it's fun I guess".

Edit: Also, I feel like a jerk pointing this out, but it seems as if you either didn't read my main post, or skimmed it. The first post explains what I mean when I say I've beaten it, and it indicates that I'm not interested in unnecessary PvP just for fun.

I get what you're saying. While this game is supposed to be a sandbox, there aren't many mechanisms to expand the gameplay and make it a true sandbox. It's very much combat driven, not so much survival, and about 75% of the players use the game strictly as a way to PvP. There's nothing wrong with PvP as the choice should be as free as air, but I wish the game would focus more on survival tactics and scarcity to make the environment more akin to The Road Warrior. Additionally, I think when zombies are able to run indoors, players will almost be forced to sneak around instead of just bolting from building to building, which will add another level of difficulty to the game.

[nuggetz 2]

It would be nice if every time a zombie kills a player, another zombie or two are spawned. The way it is now, advanced players can read an area based on zombie presence alone and know if other players are in the vicinity or not. No zombies=no players around. Zombies should be more random. Give them something to do. Give them a reason to inhabit forests. Make hordes move from town to town. I want to feel that zombies have some sort of intelligence. I want the world to feel organic. Zombies have are moving towards town X today. There's not than many in town y now so people could go there and set up camp.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

This mod rely on a lot of static informations that can be gathered easily from the community. Increasing the challenge could be done by changes like these:

Dynamic zombie density, not always in town, and not always the same density.

Removing the ability to accurately map, loots (using dynamic loot spawning).

Hide the damn debug menu, we don't need to know all this.

Guns need to be more impredictable and eventually break, we are talking about untrained civilians stumbling on a gun that was left to the elements for possibly months.

also:

Removing the infinite running, beach to NW airfield come at a cost of a few minutes, you shouldn't be able to run away from zombies this easily either.

Keeping your character healthy should be harder (need for more varied food?, make the environment more severely affect the player)

The sequels of a firefight should last much longer (currently as long as you carry meat you can undo those sequels in a couple seconds.

[director 12]

if they buf zombies they can lover their numbers, and alow them to spawn if someone is 1500m (or even better make them be on map allways) close to their spawn point. Lower number of zombies means our FPS will stay in good shape :) . Many bad aspects would be solved with this.

respawning of zombies should be 10-20 minutes, so that for example group of ppl can liberate city and keep it clean. something like that would be nice new feature. right now they respawn to quickly and there is no point at all to kill them if you have open path to run.

Edited September 2, 2012 by director

[Bratalise 26]

I see everyone saying that servers can't handle the mass A.I. of zombies and as of right now that may be true but currently Chernarus is a huge forest and every single tree is scripted with destructible environment I.E. hit the tree with a tank its going to fall down. Now Chernarus has whole lot of trees id name a number but i just don't feel like i could name one accurately Each tree with this destructible environment scripting bogs the servers down immensely therefore the amount of players/zombie is very limited. If they were to remove all the destructible environment scripting from those trees Chernarus could hold 1000's of zombie A.I. Now I'm pretty sure they will do that with Chernarus plus since there is no reason to have all of those trees destructible. So all in all 1000's of zombies is possible without the server lagging to hell.

[Zetal 90]

Dude, I thought I was pretty clear. You're most of the people that post here. You're the one who needs to be nerfed but is afraid to actually nerf himself in any substantive way and is busy blaming hatchets. You need to just accept that what would make the game more interesting would be to have gun damage flattened and audible sounds increased, your tents gone, your crutches and training wheels snapped and crushed and broken. None of your suggestions for making the game harder would even affect you. That's a pretty obvious tell right there.

I specifically designed these suggestions off of what make the game easy for me. Why would I even bother using a gun if I'm not interested in PvP? They're easier to miss with, have limited ammunition, and make a ton of noise, so I just use an axe. When I die: why would I even bother running back to my tent in the far, far northern wilderness? It's obsolete. I can completely regear in a much faster period of time by just running through cities and towns. Don't make assumptions- it isn't healthy for a testing environment, considering that training wheels makes a game BORING. It sounds more like you're perhaps a bit upset at getting killed by pvp'ers and snipers that abuse the good mechanics of the game- understandably- but getting rid of them isn't the solution.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Zetal

[Fouty17 1]

Another excellent thread... this is a survival game for the hardcore gamer... rocket needs to keep that in mind at all times ... realism is what will make this game 100x better then it is...