Why the Anti PvP arguments are pathetic

[Limeni 7]

this thread is pathetic too

[Alexander (DayZ) 1]

I maintain it's a neccessary thread. There is yet another "Let's make non PvP servers" thread on the front page. Such sentiments could split the community. Hence the argument I felt I had to make.

this thread is pathetic too

Why not just downvote the thread if you don't like it, refuse to post in it, and ask for it's deletion? Hurr durr.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

this thread is pathetic too

[Lordgore 0]

Thread why you turn from good productive thread to trolling and growing faggottrees?

tl : dr for the whole thread

alex is engrish

wild has rocks instead of brains

pvp is fine except for disconnects and bandit skin discrimination [oh god get the NAABP in here]

everyone reverts to two years olds when an argument starts.

i enjoy pie.

[Alexander (DayZ) 1]

This thread was started merely to make the argument for PvP in the strongest possible way as a tool to - among other things - persuade any future developers of the mod to leave it in. I am glad the majority of people agree with my reasoning.

That being said I never could tolerate a fuckwit. And I am absolutely sure this fuckwit will continue to spread his butthurt across every thread he infects.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

This thread was started merely to make the argument for PvP in the strongest possible way as a tool to - among other things - persuade any future developers of the mod to leave it in. I am glad the majority of people agree with my reasoning.

That being said I never could tolerate a fuckwit. And I am absolutely sure this fuckwit will continue to spread his butthurt across every thread he infects.

lol even after a mod comes by and says stop it, you still talk so much shit.

You're pathetic Alexander. Truly pathetic. It must be sad to have such a boring life that you can't let things go on the internet.

I lol'd so hard.

[oktyabr 53]

This seems to be a popular thread for venting that PVP vs. PVE gibberish. I hereby declare it the official one.

[Alexander (DayZ) 1]

lol even after a mod comes by and says stop it, you still talk so much shit.

Wrong.

You're pathetic Alexander. Truly pathetic. It must be sad to have such a boring life that you can't let things go on the internet.

I guess if you finally shut your face you'd be one less post pathetic than me by your reasoning - and I don't doubt you'd count it as a victory, despite the fact we are not competing.

I lol'd so hard.

Good to know you're keeping on the sunny side. :D

This seems to be a popular thread for venting that PVP vs. PVE gibberish. I hereby declare it the official one.

Sounds like a plan to me. Back to the case it is, huzzah!

[Amwulf 0]

Pvp is really the element that seems to make this game really interesting, i have watched countels videos, rolled trough dozens of threads and i conclude that pvp is a must and should stay as is, free. (Although disconnecting seems to be a problem, character should have log off timer with 20sec maybe?)

Dont like bandit groups? maybe group up yourself with like minded people and take revenge upon them. even if that means you get backstabbed once or twice, you got to know what to do and how to do it.

I personally feel bad for people who are only worried about the ending or the goal and get angry for "loosing". At the end of Mass Effect 3, i wasn't that upset with the ending. I Enjoyed the ride so much. This game has the same system as in minecraft, lost all you diamods in pvp? have fun getting them back, and i mean it ;)

[aLmAnZo (DayZ) 21]

I also reacted on how you worded yourself. And the reason is simple, you actually have decent arguments. Most people tend to view insults and sarcasm as a sign of lack of arguments. You have a good case, why start out by acting like people who disagree are all twats or little babies? There is no need for that, especially not when you have the skill to properly make your arguments sounds reasonable. And I think that you do.

And that brings me on topic. I get your point, really I do. PvP is important for the game, even if you don't kill other players yourself, becouse they are a threat. However, as it is now, I feel it is a bit unbalanced. We share one major thing in common though, the want for more challange in main stream games, and the end of developers holding their players in the hand, showing off all of their "awsum omg lol" stuff. It's a delight to finaly play something that is totaly unscripted. (One of the reasons I enjoy minecraft as much as I do to. There is no particular way to play the game, you find your own way.)

The problem with DayZ, how I see it, is that it really doesn't encourage anything BUT pk'ing. Achieving somewhat decent gear without resulting to go the "easy way" takes hours and hours. So, the best strategy, not to say the only found strategy is to kill others for their loot.

Now, that might kill the mod, becouse it eats up all the other features of the mod.

I don't get angry at players who kill me, even though I don't do it myself. The other day, I was observing three guys at a safe spot with my sniper rifle looting a military camp in Stary Sobor. I left them alone, waited a bit and raided the tents myself. Bam, got killed by them. It was totaly reasonable for them to do exactly that. I don't blame them, I blame myself for not being more careful. I lost only mid-level gear, but it had taken me hours upon hours to achieve it.

My point is, there is no real system to encourage people to not PK, or to award people who choose not too. On the other hand, there is a lot of things encouraging you to kill others, and the awards for doing so is large.

I think that is the main reason so many players are complaining about it. It's not becouse they don't like a challange, but becouse the balancing is so off.

And as you said, I think alot of players kill others simply out of fear or anxiety. That is brilliant. It should be hard to get the trust of others, but the game needs a bit more incentive for people NOT to pull the trigger when they can. As it is now, there is simply no reason not to do it, exept for the fear of your own life.

There should be benefits and downsides for either playstyle. As it is now, bandits are favorised by the mod.

As I said, I agree that no PvP would kill the mod. The only thing it lacks, is balance.

I have suggested a few solutions in a suggestions thread I made, I hope you'll take your time to read it.

[Alexander (DayZ) 1]

I also reacted on how you worded yourself. And the reason is simple, you actually have decent arguments. Most people tend to view insults and sarcasm as a sign of lack of arguments. You have a good case, why start out by acting like people who disagree are all twats or little babies? There is no need for that, especially not when you have the skill to properly make your arguments sounds reasonable. And I think that you do.

Fair one, I simply wanted to make my case as strongly as I could and tbh I do regard most of the oppositions points as babyish. But your point is well taken. What passes as normal disputation amongst me and my friends (who are all argumentative) may not pass muster here. OK.

I think that is the main reason so many players are complaining about it. It's not becouse they don't like a challange, but becouse the balancing is so off.

I really fail to see how it could be "rebalanced" without destroying the PvP aspect. What are we to do, penalize people for being bandits by screwing with their graphics like they're having some sort of rage fit? If you penalize people via some sort of script for just taking the choice to murder and rob people you're severly choking player choice off. How ARE we to "rebalance" this issue without penalizing bandits to an unrealitic extent? I know it's just a zombie game but key to it is immersion (viz' the long walking distances, food requirements etc) penalizing via a scripted punishment rips the heart out of that.

The problem with DayZ, how I see it, is that it really doesn't encourage anything BUT pk'ing. Achieving somewhat decent gear without resulting to go the "easy way" takes hours and hours. So, the best strategy, not to say the only found strategy is to kill others for their loot.

Not so, my man. Only the good may trade reliably with the good. Ever tried getting a trade going with someone when you're on your own as a bandit with a sniper rifle? I have. You are viewed with EXTREME suspicion by both them AND other bandits. You constantly run the risk of being shot out of hand - this has happened to me. Survivor skinned people can trade much more easily. I was thinking about some sort of "reputation system", we can do this without killing the immsersion. Supposing this was all real and you encountered someone who killed for loot. He would probably come off as being slightly...weird...in his conversation and mannerisms. You might just "feel" he was a "wrong'un". - maybe when survivors look at bandits there could be some sort of visual clue. The more people the bandit has murdered (as opposing to other bandits he has killed) the more his outfit changes until he he looks like a total badass. This would be a strong indicator NOT to deal with someone. Possibly to kill him before he kills you. The whole point of providing a bandit skin is to clue other players into the idea that you DO kill people. This is slightly offset by the fact that most "bandits", me included, killed in self defense. Under my idea someone who has killed a dozen survivors would have a radically different skin. Wearing a 2 kill bandit skin Maybe because you had to kill some people trying to kill you...somewhat believeable that it was self defense. Wearing a skin that indicates you have slain 30+ men. Hey...this guy looks freaking DODGY to me...you see what I'm saying? It's somewhat realisitic because someone who kills for loot might be e.g. wearing a mixture of their clothing, it might be covered in blood-splats, he's more likely to be a loner so his clothes will be rugged etc...

And as you said, I think alot of players kill others simply out of fear or anxiety. That is brilliant. It should be hard to get the trust of others, but the game needs a bit more incentive for people NOT to pull the trigger when they can. As it is now, there is simply no reason not to do it, exept for the fear of your own life.

Exactly. A completely functional direct voip system would do wonders.

I have suggested a few solutions in a suggestions thread I made, I hope you'll take your time to read it.

I shall. But do you want to copy and paste them to hear because it looks like this is becoming the biggest repository of PvP gripes / change suggestions?

[aLmAnZo (DayZ) 21]

Fair one' date=' I simply wanted to make my case as strongly as I could and tbh I do regard most of the oppositions points as babyish. But your point is well taken. What passes as normal disputation amongst me and my friends (who are all argumentative) may not pass muster here. OK.[/quote']

Brilliant. I hope this will put an end to the pointless argument for now. Flame wars doens't contribute at all.

I really fail to see how it could be "rebalanced" without destroying the PvP aspect. What are we to do, penalize people for being bandits by screwing with their graphics like they're having some sort of rage fit? If you penalize people via some sort of script for just taking the choice to murder and rob people you're severly choking player choice off. How ARE we to "rebalance" this issue without penalizing bandits to an unrealitic extent? I know it's just a zombie game but key to it is immersion (viz' the long walking distances, food requirements etc) penalizing via a scripted punishment rips the heart out of that.

My response to this is simply that I don't know. Factions have been suggested and I like the idea somehow, but that takes the uncertainty away. A friend is a friend, a foe is a foe. No more anxiety, and that might not be such a good thing. Alignment can't be obvious, how I see it. The mystery and uncertainty is important.

I agree with you though, I do not think we should penalize bandits. I would think more in the lines of encouraging non-pk'ers. How is difficult to say. I find myself somewhat in a middle position in the debate, I understand both sides very well, and think that both sides have good points. My closest thing to a solution is simply some kind of insurance (I'll get to that in the end of the post).

Not so, my man[...]

Turning non-bandit, once you've fallen for the urge to kill, is to hard as I see it. The bandit skin doesn't work as intended either. My point was simply that it's easier to kill someone for goods, than to traverse to find them. It takes quite a few hours walking around to achive the basic things like a compass, a map and a decent gun. It takes one well planned attack.

I shall. But do you want to copy and paste them to hear because it looks like this is becoming the biggest repository of PvP gripes / change suggestions?

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=997

This is the thread, but to summarize, I'd like some way of insurance, but at the same time not fool proof insurance. Some way of stocking away your gear, without the fear of loosing it when you are offline.

That's why I want some kind of tents or containers that are unaccesable by other players as long as you are off line. When you are online, however, you'd need to carefully plan how to guard your items. For players who are alone, simply hide your tent in the forest somewhere out of sight. (you can do this today, but given time it will be found when you are off line, by share unluck).

When you go out, you take what items you can afford to loose with you, and safeguard those you are afraid will be lost. If you play with a group, you can use the system currently being implemented with fences and stuff, to make a base and have some of the group guard it while off scavanging. That will both provide an incentive for cooperated, skilled PvP, and at the same time give a chance to have some kind of an insurance if you die. A spawn beacon would also be a nice thing, though of course destroyable if under attack.

This does not penalize bandits, as they can do the exact same thing. But it makes it possible to have some kind of insurance, and makes the game slightly less unforgiving and at the same time gives some interesting new PvP gameplay elements.

Now, what do you think?

[hrlambing@gmail.com 4]

To solve the issue of bandits aborting after being spotted, there should be maybe a 20-30 second timer whenever you disconnect, where your player stays alive & vulernable (idle) for that time. This discourages people from aborting because a mob of zombies finally catches up to them, or if someone's a bandit and gets spotted but wants to be a lamey loser cheater. This system would bypass a client-side abort timer that could be avoided by Alt+F4ing, because it would be dependent on servers. This system could use some tweaking to deal with crashes (although my A2 has never ever crashed) if needed.

Like aLmAnZo says, "The mystery and uncertainty is important". That quote sums up all my feelings of DayZ. There should never be a map given to you when you spawn that shows your location. There shouldn't be obvious factions. There should never be a way to form a squad and respawn on your friends when you die. Running to meet up with others, possibly getting lost on the way, is half the game, and the time and hard work put into meeting up places a ton of value on your character's life, knowing you could die at any moment and you won't respawn next to your friend in 5 seconds. The adrenaline and anxiety that comes with not knowing if that survivor's friendly or if there's a sniper on that building is what makes this game fun.

Hiding on top of a hospital next to a helicopter in Cherno, scared to move because your friend just got fucking sniped by a bandit and you have no idea where it is, that's fun.

My friend and I are on the edge of a hilly forest, and see a survivor going through a barn. Luckily I have a sniper, and try to snipe him, but miss. Instantly you can tell the survivor is fucking terrified. He starts running through a field, trying to get to safety because he's not sure where the bullet came from. You can see the fear in his character's movements as he looks behind every few seconds, having no idea where we are. That's fucking fun, hilarious, and exhilerating. A lot of this game is luck and of course, if you fuck up by going right instead of left, a bandit could shoot you. But that's why this game is so fun – you don't know if there's an enemy around the corner.

There shouldn't be any penalties for being a bandit, and no additional incentives (at least with what I can see so far) to being a survivor. There already are enough – as a bandit, you're a target to survivors, but also a prime target for other bandits. As a survivor, you're a target to bandits, but also a target for other survivors. It's free for all and that's why it's good. In most situations, it's safer to be a survivor and dodge a few bandit bullets to get your gear. The tradeoff with choosing to become a bandit is that, if you're gonna be a dickhead and kill everybody, everybody will know, and your existence could come to an end if someone sneaks up behind you. Three bandits camping a building and you get shot every time you go near it? Go somewhere else. The map is huge, and maybe you'll end up finding a sniper and then you can go back, murder the bandits camping that building, steal their beans & ALICE pack, and get an awesome sense of satisfaction knowing you just shit all over them. THAT is DayZ, and that is fun.

All opinions are subject to change, and also, this game is in alpha. I'm sure lots of gameplay refinements are coming in the future.

:heart:

[SixPackAbs 13]

A better title would have been "My thoughts on the PVP argument" but that isn't important.

I think the only people complaining are the youngsters ( well, the immature youngsters, i know not everyone is like this at that age) who tell everyone their location in chat, run with flares in hand, and generally don't take the game very seriously. They rage when someone takes away their loot. I saw this constantly when i was a mod of a popular minecraft pvp server..they spent time gathering all their shit and then got ganked because they don't know how to lay low. The most common complaint was " I worked all day for my stuff just give it back to me now! it was mine!" followed by insults when i told them to start over. I'm guessing this is the same for Day z. People gather their shit and then expose themselves as a target of value, either in chat or by walking around shooting randomly, and complain when the obvious happens.

In my opinion game needs more immersion-helping things like working voice comms/radios and limited global chat. player kills shouldn't have a drastic penalty, I think over time the player base will sort out how best to deal with the "serial killer" types who kill just for the blood lust.

[spartons90 0]

Potential new player here (im on my ipod right now) i have to agree With both of some of the points alexander,Captain_english and mity made. I will also be getting Arma II combuned operations abd dayZ friday. See you guys there (hopefully lol)