I think we've come to a conclusion on Rocket's "Day Z" experiment.

[Jachim 22]

So it's been about three months now of alpha testing for me. I came into the game around the initial surge of popularity in late Juneish, just around the time the major PC gaming websites began to spout about how awesome this game is and whatnot.

Rocket has specifically stated that he considers this a proof of concept. An "experiment", so to speak, to see if this type of grueling difficulty in a game can truly succeed and in fact thrive.

So, three months later I think many conclusions can be made and I'll list them out in no particular order. These conclusions are made from some of the most common complaints/compliments/etc on the forums and in no way actually represents anything learned by Rocket and the Day Z team.

1) People thought this game was something that it wasn't.

This one is obvious. People saw 'zombie survival horror game with a 250 sq km map zomg' downloaded it expecting to just lose themselves in the game. Hey yeah, perma-death adds to the suspense! What a great co-op experience! What people got was exactly the vitriol the internet provides and it shouldn't be any surprise at all. Douche bags who run around the major cities griefing/killing, snipers in random places offing you while you run unarmed etc. Augh! There are a plethora of suggestions/demands on the part of people who play on how to fix this.

2) People assumed this was a retail release.

This one is the most astounding of them all. It takes several years for large companies to develop a full game, sometimes a year or more just in alpha stages. Rockets team was very, VERY small, even smaller than most indie developers when it began, and yet people automatically assumed the games broken state would simply be fixed in a few weeks and that'd be that! Let alone the fact that it's a mod crammed into a game not designed for modding in the same way as the Source engine, or Unreal engine is. I'm pretty sure when Rocket releases standalone, there should be a giant 'If you purchase this you understand this is purely an alpha release that will be updated over time not instantly you entitled twatknockers.'

3) People thought the game was too hard and so began hacking.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/81146-today-i-have-been-legitimally-global-banned-for-cheating/

That's right. You made this man hack your game Rocket. With all the broken legs randomly from running, opening doors, walking up or down or within 100 feet of stairs, buggy zombie AI, random bleeding from looking up too quickly, being killed by a random person, bandits, Republicans, AIDS and International Communism.

It's all your fault he hacked to make the game easier for him and his buddies to get weapons and roleplay being all awesome.

4) People in Day Z apparently don't play any other first or third person shooter type games.

Thousands of threads. Fix the hacking problem! Why aren't you fixing the hacking problem! It's getting worse now! Rocket likes hackers because it gives Bohemia money!

I implore everyone. Please, go take a look at any other popular first or third person shooters forums. If you believe them, every other person is a hacker there too. It's just a whole lot less irritating because, well, permadeath is a bitch and in those games it isn't so blatant of an issue. Hackers in Day Z have an absolute HAYDAY because the game was built for scripting things into it. This cannot just simply be coded out, and there are entire hacking communities who make a living off of selling hacks that cannot be detected by either Bohemia, Rocket's kludged together hive network, or Battleye. Sure let's use another anti-cheat! But wait! Bohemia has a contract with Battleye already! Legally they can't! Obviously this is Rockets fault too! Pitchforks and torches!!!

5) People thought they bought Day Z when they bought Arma 2/Combined Ops/Whatever

Now here, some people have at least a little validity. Mostly because Arma 2 by itself is nowhere near worth the 30bucks most people paid for the damn thing and Day Z is (initially) a lot more fun. But that's where their validity falls apart, and actually isn't the first time this has ever come up for mods before.

Half-life had a great mod called Counter Strike. Two people developed that mod and it became immensely popular. While I can't confirm that their user base was as much of an abomination as Day Z's currently is, I'm certain there were heaps of expectations dumped on them both. Eventually, Valve bought it up (seeing a trend here?!) and made it into a standalone title alongside Half-Life and then eventually Half-Life 2 (Counter Strike: Source, and now CS: GO)

Another great (or not so great) example was Battlefield 1942's mod "Desert Combat" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Combat) that helped spin off the even more popular Battlefield 2. I actually played this heavily (both 1942, Desert Combat, and BF2), and can truly say that the community for Desert Combat was a really positive for the most part. People did not have these unreal expectations and delusions of entitlement, even though it was so freaking buggy. The helicopter physics were laughable, and if you ever go shot you could just smash the 'z' button (for prone) to dolphin dive around, leading to skirmishes between enemies with all of them bunny hopping and diving in mid air all over the place like fish out of water. Hilarious.

So! Those are my observations, does anyone else have any others to add?

[tsandrey 379]

I LOL'ed.

1. DayZ is an experiement, and an "anti-game". THERE IS NO BALANCE

2. There are cheaters, cause Arma 2 allows scripts!

3. Arma 2 is a great game, and it's worth the money

4. THIS IS A MOD, AND STANDALONE WILL COME SOON

[luxifergrim (DayZ) 19]

I haven't played an online shooter since I threw my Halo disc away after seeing the "Halo Jumping" crap that went on there...(just saying that some of these problems are systemic to the nature and popularity of FPS's) So yeah I think this is an outstanding concept and an amazing game, faults included...

Edit- Loved Homefront too...

[SP45M 240]

Sure the game has bugs but you have played it for three months for an outlay of $30. That is pretty good value for money IMO.

[M4L 42]

TL;DR

1. Bandits ffs !!

2. Ull be buying an alpha

3. Hackers ffs !!

4. moar hackers ffs !!

5. mods gone game

:)

[Jachim 22]

I LOL'ed.

1. DayZ is an experiement, and an "anti-game". THERE IS NO BALANCE

2. There are cheaters, cause Arma 2 allows scripts!

3. Arma 2 is a great game, and it's worth the money

4. THIS IS A MOD, AND STANDALONE WILL COME SOON

You know, you got me. I never actually played Arma 2, but I have a barber who played it and said it was garbage so I believed him.

I still wouldn't pay 30 bucks for it. Come now, it's worth maybe 10 for its campaign and modding ability, but 30? Naaaah.

[luxifergrim (DayZ) 19]

Considering that the last Mission in Arma 2 is broken beyond belief(maybe they fixed it by now, never bothered to check), I would say it's not worth the 30... But is COD worth 60?

[zyfer.nyholm@gmail.com 131]

You know, you got me. I never actually played Arma 2, but I have a barber who played it and said it was garbage so I believed him.

I still wouldn't pay 30 bucks for it. Come now, it's worth maybe 10 for its campaign and modding ability, but 30? Naaaah.

agreed, but TSAsomethingsomething is known for being a dude who takes another dude up his dude so dont worry about him.

Though DayZ could be a whole lot better with one simple fix tbh, then all the other stuff could be worked on but meh, airing an opinion in this kind of community is barely possible due to the Alpha spamming which gets old. But hey maybe the standalone will be great, im just not getting it :D

anyways, good post.

Considering that the last Mission in Arma 2 is broken beyond belief(maybe they fixed it by now, never bothered to check), I would say it's not worth the 30... But is COD worth 60?

Is Cod really 60$????? if so, then thats just to get money down into their pockets.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Zyfer

[Jachim 22]

Considering that the last Mission in Arma 2 is broken beyond belief(maybe they fixed it by now, never bothered to check), I would say it's not worth the 30... But is COD worth 60?

Don't get me wrong. If I was Bohemia, I'd be ripping myself off by reducing the price right now, especially while Day Z is still such a hot seller. It makes no sense to sell for less if the game is so immensely popular that people will buy it for the higher price.

Even if the game itself is garbage, and that goes for CoD as well.

[hatfieldcw 184]

My chief observation is that the game didn't really achieve what Rocket set out to do. I came in about the same time you did, I guess, and I never got to play the DayZ that was described to me. I came close a couple times, meeting strangers and teaming up, but it always went right to, "My tents are up here, do you want the AS50 or the DMR?" and never to us huddled in a barn with no ammo trying to find flares so we can distract the zombies long enough to sneak into town and hit the hospital for morphine. The game I play now isn't the hardcore terrifying experience it was billed as. When I find a sweet piece of loot, it goes into the tent and is safe as houses, so there's no permadeath for me. I respawn and run to the stash and in ten minutes I'm just the same as I ever was. Sure, I can choose not to re-arm, but I'd be the only guy on the server with a WInchester while everyone else is packing M4 CCOs and M249s, and since the zombies are underpowered and the players are overpowered, teamwork is only necessary for PvP, and PvP is shoot on sight, so the only social experiences you can hope for any more are with people you already know and trust.

It's not working, and all the conceptual testing will have to be started over with the new standalone. I wanted this game to be a roguelike, I wanted to start fresh and build myself up and then die and try again, but since my progress is persistent and cumulative, I can't get that experience. Even if I artificially hobble myself, I can't play in a game world where people follow those rules with me, so it's moot. I'll play the game I'm given, and hope for the game I want.

[Jachim 22]

agreed, but TSAsomethingsomething is known for being a dude who takes another dude up his dude so dont worry about him.

Though DayZ could be a whole lot better with one simple fix tbh, then all the other stuff could be worked on but meh, airing an opinion in this kind of community is barely possible due to the Alpha spamming which gets old. But hey maybe the standalone will be great, im just not getting it :D

anyways, good post.

Is Cod really 60$????? if so, then thats just to get money down into their pockets.

Oh, haha. I think it's the tone people use and how they make their posts really.

If someone makes a suggestion of what to fix or whatnot, sure go ahead. That's what the forum is for, but have some realistic expectations about its implementation and don't add in entitled BS like "I paid for this game so there, i don't care what reality is saying or what my credit card statement says "Arma 2 Combined Operations" I bought Day Z and thus I am a consumer with rights to demand this rawr!"

I just get fed up with that.

[Jachim 22]

My chief observation is that the game didn't really achieve what Rocket set out to do. I came in about the same time you did, I guess, and I never got to play the DayZ that was described to me. I came close a couple times, meeting strangers and teaming up, but it always went right to, "My tents are up here, do you want the AS50 or the DMR?" and never to us huddled in a barn with no ammo trying to find flares so we can distract the zombies long enough to sneak into town and hit the hospital for morphine. The game I play now isn't the hardcore terrifying experience it was billed as. When I find a sweet piece of loot, it goes into the tent and is safe as houses, so there's no permadeath for me. I respawn and run to the stash and in ten minutes I'm just the same as I ever was. Sure, I can choose not to re-arm, but I'd be the only guy on the server with a WInchester while everyone else is packing M4 CCOs and M249s, and since the zombies are underpowered and the players are overpowered, teamwork is only necessary for PvP, and PvP is shoot on sight, so the only social experiences you can hope for any more are with people you already know and trust.

It's not working, and all the conceptual testing will have to be started over with the new standalone. I wanted this game to be a roguelike, I wanted to start fresh and build myself up and then die and try again, but since my progress is persistent and cumulative, I can't get that experience. Even if I artificially hobble myself, I can't play in a game world where people follow those rules with me, so it's moot. I'll play the game I'm given, and hope for the game I want.

110% agree brosef. The experiment failed. There can be many things to attribute to that, and I think item inflation is definately one of the big ones. Some can answer with simply 'It'll be fixed in Standalone', but I think the proper response should be 'it'll be fixed in time'.

I'll be honest, I haven't logged into the game in 2 weeks. Still follow it because I think it can be so much better. This is just my vent about the forumites here. :)

[tsandrey 379]

agreed, but TSAsomethingsomething is known for being a dude who takes another dude up his dude so dont worry about him

What? I'm just sick and tired of these constant complains about how DayZ is broken, how Battleye sucks, how Rocket ignores everyone and bla bla bla bla bla... None of that is true, and they expect DayZMOD to be like a full retail game, instead of a mod

[gywidion@msn.com 80]

Yeah, if I were rocket I'd just go to a closed alpha and let all the drama queens move on.

[pieeyedsniper 25]

What? I'm just sick and tired of these constant complains about how DayZ is broken, how Battleye sucks, how Rocket ignores everyone and bla bla bla bla bla... None of that is true, and they expect DayZMOD to be like a full retail game, instead of a mod

Member since July!! So you were not around when Rocket was on the forums pretty much every day, giving updates & info. Broken shit like this tent crap would have been addressed a lot sooner. Now that "Rockstars" head has swollen to E.T. proportions Seems like " They'll play shitty patches until I feel like getting around to fixing it" mentality is the way to be, and you fanboys just put your head down & your ass up.

[Jachim 22]

Member since July!! So you were not around when Rocket was on the forums pretty much every day, giving updates & info. Broken shit like this tent crap would have been addressed a lot sooner. Now that "Rockstars" head has swollen to E.T. proportions Seems like " They'll play shitty patches until I feel like getting around to fixing it" mentality is the way to be, and you fanboys just put your head down & your ass up.

Did you read anything I said?

Honestly, I think tent saving is one of the big problems that needs to be addressed. You're claiming that someone who supports Rocket is a fanboy, and that the natural thing to do is spew vitriolic hatred at Rocket for "not fixing shit fast enough". Read my whole post. Thanks.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Jachim

[tsandrey 379]

Member since July!! So you were not around when Rocket was on the forums pretty much every day, giving updates & info. Broken shit like this tent crap would have been addressed a lot sooner. Now that "Rockstars" head has swollen to E.T. proportions Seems like " They'll play shitty patches until I feel like getting around to fixing it" mentality is the way to be, and you fanboys just put your head down & your ass up.

Yes, but the playerbase doubled since then! Which means more support, more problems and etc. Not to mention how he started to work on the standalone

[sostronk 334]

1. I watched all these youtube videos of cool kids doing cool things together. I join and they all wanna kill me and each other.

2. Dafuq are the zombies actually supposed to be a part of the game, they are no challenge whatsoever

3. Dafuq Ive got 10 cans of beans and 20 soft drinks, dis survival game right?

4. Fuq he turned me into a goat, again.

5. Wait being a goat is kinda fun, fuq he killed me.

[pieeyedsniper 25]

Jachim was your name on the post I commented on? Didn't think so

[rainf 76]

Op hits nail on the head for me, I agree on all points! Great post.

[coleisman 15]

This is why he's concentrating on the standalone, he has stated in numerous interviews that the number one priority is to resolve the hacking issues before developing any new mechanics game content or bug fixes. Hacking will always happen but the standalone version should allow him to sufficiently lock it down to bring it down to a minimum (I dont know anything about this stuff, just going off what he said in a couple interviews)

[gywidion@msn.com 80]

This is why he's concentrating on the standalone, he has stated in numerous interviews that the number one priority is to resolve the hacking issues before developing any new mechanics game content or bug fixes. Hacking will always happen but the standalone version should allow him to sufficiently lock it down to bring it down to a minimum (I dont know anything about this stuff, just going off what he said in a couple interviews)

I get so excited when I see people who can read!

Have some beans!

[osirish 165]

3) People thought the game was too hard and so began hacking.

http://dayzmod.com/f...d-for-cheating/

That's right. You made this man hack your game Rocket. With all the broken legs randomly from running, opening doors, walking up or down or within 100 feet of stairs, buggy zombie AI, random bleeding from looking up too quickly, being killed by a random person, bandits, Republicans, AIDS and International Communism.

It's all your fault he hacked to make the game easier for him and his buddies to get weapons and roleplay being all awesome.

This is a terrible observation. If you actually read that post, the OP stated that he got bored and started cheating 4 DAYS after buying ARMA CO. So this loser starts cheating after 4 days, and you hold him up as an example and claim that it was the mod's or Rocket's fault he turned into a douchebag?

Elsewhere you defend the mod in it's alpha state and talk about how players don't seem to realise this, but yet you seem to support someone cheating because it is an alpha?

[sfeldbin@googlemail.com 0]

If you need an experiment this size to figure out that people on the Internet are assholes whenever they can, you probably haven't played many online games yet.

Beside that I see a growing "stupidity" amongst players all over the place that partially explain the issues you listed. While in earlier days people actually expected to be challenged by a game and were ready to spend days or even month to understand, learn and master these challenges, people today seem to only want the easy, 15-minute fun with please no obstacles on their way to a guaranteed win. DayZ is only one example that clearly shows how people do not want a challenge at all (even though it can be a lot of fun), others games like ME3, where you can simply buy what you would have to earn otherwise with real money (and boy do they throw their money at BW), show the same trend away from real challenges towards illusionary challenges.

What I think is more interesting than the fact that todays gamers are blatantly lazy, is to compare DayZ to Minecraft, which have a lot of similarities if you look a bit behind the graphics and compare the gameplay. The important part is why Minecraft does not have that many issues, and if you think about that for some time, I think that DayZ - in it's essence - can be successful if it is just done right.

[Thadeum 103]

This is a terrible observation. If you actually read that post, the OP stated that he got bored and started cheating 4 DAYS after buying ARMA CO. So this loser starts cheating after 4 days, and you hold him up as an example and claim that it was the mod's or Rocket's fault he turned into a douchebag?

Elsewhere you defend the mod in it's alpha state and talk about how players don't seem to realise this, but yet you seem to support someone cheating because it is an alpha?

He was obviously sarcastic about my post.

Also, I did not cheat because the game was "hard" (I stated the opposite, in fact), but because I wanted to have a new end-game experience.

And yes, I reached the "end-game" in just 4 days, while other people scream they learned it in 2 months, I did quite all can be done on Chernarus in 4 days. I started playing with Wolfenstein 3D, I pwnd Xaero with the railgun on Q3 in Nightmare, did my 20/0 against Anarki in Nightmare too, and I am hardcore enough to need more difficulty from a "survival" game. 2 months to learn? Depends of how fast you learn.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Thadeum