1st person only, waypoints, what more?

[tenzomonk 3]

I understand what you are saying, but to me it's just like me looking across the field. When I right-click to zoom in I don't see things bigger or better. The players that are far off are still small and can easily be overlooked.

But when I am standing behind a wall and someone is using 3RD person to look over the wall so they know exactly where I am or use it to peek around a corner without being seen then that's a bit unfair.

But like u said, I have no desire to anger anyone. Just asking questions to see what people prefer and how their play style differs.

Never know when someone could message you and say thank you for your input, we are so and so from gamers online company and we was doing a research and we appreciate you taking time to read our post. Here is a $50 gift certificate.

Was just getting some tips and hints on how I could keep players on my server

Indeed! And it's a GOOD thing to see admins/hosts, etc reaching out to the community!

And again, I do understand the "arguments" on both sides. I enjoy 1st person only... but to be honest, having an eyefinity setup makes it MUCH easier (advantage?). I do see the advantage a 3rd person view can give... but it's an "advantage" available to everyone... and for those that think it's OP, etc, etc... than there are servers that are 1st only. (which, i guess, it what starts the 3rd vs. 1st to begin with)

Anyways... none of this has anything to do with your "original" inquiry (directly, anyways)...

Again, THANK YOU for reaching out... just that alone is enough to get a few visits to the server from me! :)

Edited August 15, 2012 by tenzomonk

[That Guy (DayZ) 46]

If day z was locked in first person I would stop playing completely, not because I like to be able to look around corners but the first person in this game is horrible.

[AdonaiJr 2]

My short preference here: 3dp:on is crucial for me NOT to enter a server.

I've been playing this game just a bit, like 2 week's or so. But i realised really fast that this game/mod is ALL about immersion, putting yourself there in FIRST person, hearing the noises, breath, realistic and positional, with a shit vision and aiming mannualy. It's a zombie appocalipse, not an PvP Quake deathmach. Alright, if the server have the features that let the people play like any other FPS, these people are just having fun, im ok with that, but, i need to know that if i join a server the other people has to have the same limitations (in vision, crosshairs etc) like me, and preferably these settings should be persistent since the beggining of the creation of the character. If not, you can easily "go up ladder" with gear and stuff in another server, or private server, and then login in a harder server.

I'm 27 years old and play games for much more than a decade, so i know that's the part of the problem of any game is related to if a player have an obvious advantage over you (not an feature realistic or not that everyone have but doesn't take an advantage over the other player - im talking about the 3rd person) like hacks, better resolution, you name it.

I would like to see these "hardcore" settings in a separate persistent server in the stand-alone game, i mean, you should only access your character through the servers with the same options allways. This way each player can play the game our way, but dont ruin the game for others.

Sorry for my english, guys. I'm from Brazil, english is not nearly close to the mothertongue, and i learned it by reading only.. :P i've no practice at all in writing.

[echosyp 56]

My short preference here: 3dp:on is crucial for me NOT to enter a server.

I've been playing this game just a bit, like 2 week's or so. But i realised really fast that this game/mod is ALL about immersion, putting yourself there in FIRST person, hearing the noises, breath, realistic and positional, with a shit vision and aiming mannualy. It's a zombie appocalipse, not an PvP Quake deathmach. Alright, if the server have the features that let the people play like any other FPS, these people are just having fun, im ok with that, but, i need to know that if i join a server the other people has to have the same limitations (in vision, crosshairs etc) like me, and preferably these settings should be persistent since the beggining of the creation of the character. If not, you can easily "go up ladder" with gear and stuff in another server, or private server, and then login in a harder server.

I'm 27 years old and play games for much more than a decade, so i know that's the part of the problem of any game is related to if a player have an obvious advantage over you (not an feature realistic or not that everyone have but doesn't take an advantage over the other player - im talking about the 3rd person) like hacks, better resolution, you name it.

I would like to see these "hardcore" settings in a separate persistent server in the stand-alone game, i mean, you should only access your character through the servers with the same options allways. This way each player can play the game our way, but dont ruin the game for others.

Sorry for my english, guys. I'm from Brazil, english is not nearly close to the mothertongue, and i learned it by reading only.. :P i've no practice at all in writing.

No problem at all, I understood you just fine. I agree with you 100%. We should have to access each server with the same settings as the last server we left. Or make each server start you out fresh when u first join that server. But for now we deal with what we got and try to enjoy it best as possible.

[Heiduk 265]

the point i'm trying to make is... never IRL have i been able to "zoom" my vision to get a "closer look" at something than the already IRL FOV I have. (not arguing for/against being able to see as far as Arma's engine allows me to). I just think the debate of "this view/that view" etc., is flawed. If it was about "fair" then shouldn't the game be locked to specific resolution, have every one forced to play on the same size monitor, same hardware, etc?

My understanding is that right click zoom is meant to address the problem that we are playing the game through a monitor that gives us an unrealistically narrow view of the world. The normal view is intended to represent a realistic field of view but is confined to the small window of your monitor so it must reduce the size of everything to fit it in. The zoomed in view is meant to represent objects at the correct scale but must sacrifice FOV to do this. In other words, a 1.8 m tall person 100 m away will appear to be the right size when zoomed in but you can't see nearly as much of the world as you should be able to. Almost all modern LCD monitors have native resolutions of ~90-100 dpi so effectively we are all playing on the same hardware.

Anyway back to 3DP, I still don't understand why people like it so much. Most of the people responding to this thread didn't give a reason why they like it. Of those that did the answers seem to fall into:

1. 1st person makes me sick/I heard it makes some people sick.
   
2. I like watching my character.
   
3. It gives me a better, more realistic, FOV. Sometimes this include the caveat that it only applies while traveling.
   

There isn't much to say about 1 other than it seems like most FPS engines give some small percentage of players motion sickness. There are some games I can't play for long because they make me sick.

As for number 2, really? You like watching your randomly generated, completely generic, avatar run around like a slightly spazzier version of Forest Gump? Every time I see the running animation in this game I think of my old track coach telling us "It doesn't matter if you feel good as long as you look good." Survivor man has terrible form.

Finally, 3DP doesn't increase FOV, it only moves the origin, increasing what you can see locally. In other words it's a short range wall hack. Once you're looking at anything past 50 to 100 m the change in FOV is tiny, see the screen shots below. Note I lined up the left side of the box with the tree in the mid-ground but if you look at the buildings in the background the FOVs are almost identical, similar to the right edge of the box. Do those of you who like 3DP use lean and free look? ARMA 3 allows even more incremental player movements, e.g. half-crouch, will they be used?

For the record, I would consider myself a pretty casual player. I don't play everyday and usually for only a few hours at a time when I do.

Desync, good luck with your server. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to try it with the old setting as it looks like I get better pings than the one I have been playing on recently.

[larcat 0]

3rd person is a big deal. The VR engine can be vomit inducing to many players. There is no way they will make dayz standalone locked to first person. The option has been there since VR1 over tens years ago. If you want players just keep it on veteran but turn 3rd person on.

This. I LOVE DayZ, but would be completely unable to play without 3rd person. The 1st person view in this game makes me horribly nauseous after about 3 mins.

Is standalone was 1st only, I could not play it.

[echosyp 56]

My understanding is that right click zoom is meant to address the problem that we are playing the game through a monitor that gives us an unrealistically narrow view of the world. The normal view is intended to represent a realistic field of view but is confined to the small window of your monitor so it must reduce the size of everything to fit it in. The zoomed in view is meant to represent objects at the correct scale but must sacrifice FOV to do this. In other words, a 1.8 m tall person 100 m away will appear to be the right size when zoomed in but you can't see nearly as much of the world as you should be able to. Almost all modern LCD monitors have native resolutions of ~90-100 dpi so effectively we are all playing on the same hardware.

Anyway back to 3DP, I still don't understand why people like it so much. Most of the people responding to this thread didn't give a reason why they like it. Of those that did the answers seem to fall into:

1. 1st person makes me sick/I heard it makes some people sick.
   
2. I like watching my character.
   
3. It gives me a better, more realistic, FOV. Sometimes this include the caveat that it only applies while traveling.
   

There isn't much to say about 1 other than it seems like most FPS engines give some small percentage of players motion sickness. There are some games I can't play for long because they make me sick.

As for number 2, really? You like watching your randomly generated, completely generic, avatar run around like a slightly spazzier version of Forest Gump? Every time I see the running animation in this game I think of my old track coach telling us "It doesn't matter if you feel good as long as you look good." Survivor man has terrible form.

Finally, 3DP doesn't increase FOV, it only moves the origin, increasing what you can see locally. In other words it's a short range wall hack. Once you're looking at anything past 50 to 100 m the change in FOV is tiny, see the screen shots below. Note I lined up the left side of the box with the tree in the mid-ground but if you look at the buildings in the background the FOVs are almost identical, similar to the right edge of the box. Do those of you who like 3DP use lean and free look? ARMA 3 allows even more incremental player movements, e.g. half-crouch, will they be used?

For the record, I would consider myself a pretty casual player. I don't play everyday and usually for only a few hours at a time when I do.

Desync, good luck with your server. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to try it with the old setting as it looks like I get better pings than the one I have been playing on recently.

I really appreciate your reply and thank you for the photos you provided for us. A lot of people don't understand what you just told/showed us and it makes them feel like they are seeing more.

Yea I can deal with having waypoints on for the lazy people who hate using the GPS or a rangefinder, that don't bother me. Yes I can leave crosshairs on for people that might have a hard time seeing their weapons sights.

But 3RD person, I just can't seem to like using it. I believe we are going to revert back to 1st person only and if people join I hope they like it and have fun. If they don't, that's fine. Sorry you guys don't like 1st person only.

We are always happy to listen to the community and help players out as much as possible.

I really appreciate all of your replies and opinions and maybe one day our paths will cross if it be friend or foe. U won't ever find us backing down from a fight and never alt+f4 on you. We just enjoy playing a game and serving the community with whatever we can.

Also, we might have casual Fridays, or some casual weekends where we will turn 3RD on for those that like using it.

As always, hit me up if you need any help. As we do have a whitelisted medic on our team and will be glad to come help u anytime u need it.

[Chambers (DayZ) 27]

So there's three groups:

1) Those that only like 1st person

2) Those that like having the option of 3rd person

3) Those that don't mind playing both.

So... what's the problem here?

There are servers for 1st person and 3rd person, and not enough people in 1st person. It could be there are too many 1st person servers that spread out the population too thin. The problem is the number of servers is almost unlimited, and the settings are controlled entirely by the admin. That has created a population issue. Cut down on the number of 1st person servers, problem solved.

Removing 3rd person only decreases the amount of customers that will want to play, and slowing development. Those that like third person will stay away from 1st person only servers and stay out of your hair, and vice versa. There is no reason to remove it from the game, only to better manage servers in the future to have better population control.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Chambers

[oister 0]

I would like it if 3rd person was disabled for players inside and near the borders of cities and airstrips.

[dsi24 227]

My understanding is that right click zoom is meant to address the problem that we are playing the game through a monitor that gives us an unrealistically narrow view of the world. The normal view is intended to represent a realistic field of view but is confined to the small window of your monitor so it must reduce the size of everything to fit it in. The zoomed in view is meant to represent objects at the correct scale but must sacrifice FOV to do this. In other words, a 1.8 m tall person 100 m away will appear to be the right size when zoomed in but you can't see nearly as much of the world as you should be able to. Almost all modern LCD monitors have native resolutions of ~90-100 dpi so effectively we are all playing on the same hardware.

Anyway back to 3DP, I still don't understand why people like it so much. Most of the people responding to this thread didn't give a reason why they like it. Of those that did the answers seem to fall into:

1. 1st person makes me sick/I heard it makes some people sick.
   
2. I like watching my character.
   
3. It gives me a better, more realistic, FOV. Sometimes this include the caveat that it only applies while traveling.
   

There isn't much to say about 1 other than it seems like most FPS engines give some small percentage of players motion sickness. There are some games I can't play for long because they make me sick.

As for number 2, really? You like watching your randomly generated, completely generic, avatar run around like a slightly spazzier version of Forest Gump? Every time I see the running animation in this game I think of my old track coach telling us "It doesn't matter if you feel good as long as you look good." Survivor man has terrible form.

Finally, 3DP doesn't increase FOV, it only moves the origin, increasing what you can see locally. In other words it's a short range wall hack. Once you're looking at anything past 50 to 100 m the change in FOV is tiny, see the screen shots below. Note I lined up the left side of the box with the tree in the mid-ground but if you look at the buildings in the background the FOVs are almost identical, similar to the right edge of the box. Do those of you who like 3DP use lean and free look? ARMA 3 allows even more incremental player movements, e.g. half-crouch, will they be used?

For the record, I would consider myself a pretty casual player. I don't play everyday and usually for only a few hours at a time when I do.

Desync, good luck with your server. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to try it with the old setting as it looks like I get better pings than the one I have been playing on recently.

This is a great post, after experimenting with 3rd person and 1st person I'm even more against 3rd person as a legitimate system.

Here's a copy of my post from /r/dayz...

Third person significantly increases your FOV

I tested this (Screenshots dated August 16th 2012) while waiting for a response. Third person provides an advantage of a few degrees on default zoom, and zooming out (double tap numpad -) in first person gives you a *larger* FoV than default third person. These two are especially telling.

The only significant change offered by 3rd person is the ability to see things you are physically unable to. Without looking (using freelook in-game) at least.

Third person doesn't provide an edge, it provides an exploit that gives players the ability to do things that are physically impossible, and all physical possibilities that you can use 3rd person for are possible in first person. There is absolutely no reason to want 3rd person, unless you want to exploit it. (For those with nausea or those who want to back up to it as a new excuse, disable headbob and post processing)

[tarin4med@gmail.com 10]

There is absolutely no reason to want 3rd person, unless you want to exploit it. (For those with nausea or those who want to back up to it as a new excuse, disable headbob and post processing)

First I don't do PKing. I don't play DayZ the Deathmatch Mod, I play DayZ the Survival Mod. When I do have to do combat I go into 1st person. I don't use it to look for people to avoid them or find them. When I do happen to be in one of the cities/villages I am at the very least standing up and running. At this point in the mod I see no reason to hide from the zombies when you can just lose them very easily.

Almost all of my time is spent running around in the woods constantly looking around as I run. Sometimes I even forget to not hold down alt I use it so much. I even find myself trying to alt look in skyrim and Minecraft.

I do have headbob off, it is the second thing I do in every game that has it right after turning off the music. Post processing has also been off since day 1.

guess what? If I spend any amount of time running around in 1st person, even with all the little tweaks that are out there, I get a headache. It has to do the the narrow view that you get with first person. Yes the FOV in 3rd person isn't any wider but it still makes a difference.

I had the same issue with another game. I had never played Skate. My first experience with the series was with Skate 2. From the start of when I played it I used the higher angle. Eventually I bought the first game and tried to play it. After about 15 minutes of playing my head and neck start to hurt.

Why is that? Because I am constantly trying to get a higher view than the game provides.

I have no problem if people wish to play that way though. Right now there is the option, and I personally chose to not play on 1st person only servers.

If the standalone is made with 1st only, I will still buy it simply because I like what Rocket has made and I will support him but it would take a lot for me to continue to play it beyond a couple of days. And seeing as the game isn't a Deathmatch game, I see no reason that you should be forced to be in 1st person always.

[Jackftw 310]

If its 1.7.2.5, I'd love to try it out. What's the server?

[dsi24 227]

guess what? If I spend any amount of time running around in 1st person, even with all the little tweaks that are out there, I get a headache. It has to do the the narrow view that you get with first person. Yes the FOV in 3rd person isn't any wider but it still makes a difference.

Increase the FoV then.

[qazdar 1]

I am basically a warfare player ,and i just laugh when i see a server calling itself "Veteran" with 3rd person , crosshair and even worse waypoints ...

You need at least to disable 3rd before you call your server veteran !

[grylsyjaeger 171]

This. I LOVE DayZ, but would be completely unable to play without 3rd person. The 1st person view in this game makes me horribly nauseous after about 3 mins.

Is standalone was 1st only, I could not play it.

You guys know you can stop the head bobbing in the options, right?

I've been playing on Veteran servers with no third person, no crosshair, no names or markers and the game is on a completely different level. So much more immersive having to check all your corners manually and navigate with map and compass and actually have to count/guess your distance from target.

I did miss third person but if anything and when I went to a different server after all our gear got hacked I still find myself playing first person most of the time.

[tarin4med@gmail.com 10]

I am basically a warfare player ,and i just laugh when i see a server calling itself "Veteran" with 3rd person , crosshair and even worse waypoints ...

You need at least to disable 3rd before you call your server veteran !

Regular, Veteran, Recuit all of those tags are meaningless. All the settings are Customizable. The Veteran and crap is just junk from the Arma II game that DayZ is a mod on.

[Cluckles 26]

I can't speak for everyone, but it's hard to reconsile the hardcore immersion of 1st person with the noob-friendly waypoint system. I like the idea of being locked to 1st person, because I don't think 3rd person works very well at all in this game. However, waypoints spoil the navigation aspect which I find quite enjoyable.

[BlindProphet 34]

short-sighted or near-sighted? :D

the point i'm trying to make is... never IRL have i been able to "zoom" my vision to get a "closer look" at something than the already IRL FOV I have. (not arguing for/against being able to see as far as Arma's engine allows me to). I just think the debate of "this view/that view" etc., is flawed. If it was about "fair" then shouldn't the game be locked to specific resolution, have every one forced to play on the same size monitor, same hardware, etc? So that no one would have any advantage? (just being devil's advocate is all).

Anyways, like I've stated... I don't have a real preference either way... and no desires to anger anyone :)

The 'zoom' is to represent the narrowing of ones vision and the focus down the sights of a gun. Now your eyes don't actually zoom in when looking down the sites like that, however if you do get tunnel vision. You acutely focus on whats down range when you're actually focusing on it. You see that much clearer but you stop consciously paying attention to everything else so you don't really see it. This is an actual thing. Its how our brain and eyes work.

The game simulates this by narrowing our field of view and zooming in.

[omgwtfbbq (DayZ) 1069]

There's an easy fix for 1st person, people. Go to your numpad, and double-tap the "-" key. BAM! Better FOV. Less headache-enducing. I prefer to play in third person, but if the server has it disabled, then I'm perfectly content playing the game like this.

[pieflavor 38]

what's with everyone trying to impose their own gameplay onto others?

this game was never, is not, and will never be immersive, not as long as zombies hit me through walls and my character gets stuck in water or breaks a leg randomly by sticking inside a wall. That argument is moot (also the game was never, is not, and will never be a competitive game due to the same reasons, oh and hackers)

please stop trying to enforce first person only on servers and suchlike, as stated many times already, you have options.

[Maxgor 2314]

I don't care if a servers is regular or not. If the FPS aspect was better in this game, I'd stick with it, but right now, it's not right. A good majority of things are just poorly designed in this game really...No jumping over things, you have to click to climb things and open doors, I mean, how is that tactical or realistic? It serves no purpose, but I'm getting off topic here lol

If you want an active server, you just need to keep yourself broader, unless you have a group/community all set to join in with those settings in mind.

[NFK 102]

I travel in third person and shoot in first. I've always found third person more comfortable, but I read all these forum posts saying the FOV isn't much different between first and third, so why is it more comfortable to me?

I think it has to do with disorientation. In first person, I'm not exactly sure what my character's position is relative to his surroundings. The view feels off because I'm not sure of exactly where I am. I know I'm not explaining this very well, but first person in this game feels very counter-intuitive to me. In third person I can move and navigate much more comfortably and instinctively. In first person I am very aware of the interface and constantly trying to locate myself relative to my surroundings, while in third person I know exactly where I am and thus can focus on moving.

Honestly, you can turn off everything else on your server and I'm fine with it. I've never even used waypoints, in fact I didn't even know about them until I read a forum post debating them last week. Crosshairs make it a little easier to interact with objects, but I never use them for shooting, so I can work without them. Nametags are just silly.

But if you lock me into first person view in this game, it's disorienting and just feels wrong. It's unpleasant, and makes me more, not less, aware that I'm playing a game.

[BL1P 252]

3rd is Great !!

It allows me to see over objects I would not be able to IRL.

It lets me look around corners without leaning.

I can see from inside a dense bush while remaining hidden.

I can use it to glitch the magical camera through walls.

and best of all it lets me look at my barbie doll to see the clothes using my magical camera that follows me over my shoulder !!!

3rd is so much more realistic I don't know why everyone doesn't use it. Instead of the silly option of turning your head left or right in 1st person.

[droznig 20]

I know some people who cannot play in 1st person, it makes them sick.

Tell them to turn head bob off, and as for field of view, use ALT you can get almost 360° view, and I don't know about you but I certainly can't look that far behind me without hurting my neck or moving my shoulders, so the people who say their FOV is limited unrealistically without 3rd person either don't know about ALT look, or they are just stupid.

Edited August 17, 2012 by droznig

[dsi24 227]

3rd is Great !!

It allows me to see over objects I would not be able to IRL.

It lets me look around corners without leaning.

I can see from inside a dense bush while remaining hidden.

I can use it to glitch the magical camera through walls.

and best of all it lets me look at my barbie doll to see the clothes using my magical camera that follows me over my shoulder !!!

3rd is so much more realistic I don't know why everyone doesn't use it. Instead of the silly option of turning your head left or right in 1st person.

Some people actually believe this.