Thermal sight needs to be removed

[The_Albatros 72]

You're an idiot.

This is an alpha, completely full of bugs and exploits.

The L85A2 LWS is rare as hell, and most people have never seen a legit one spawn.

The problem is not the gun, it's the duplicating.

Your thread should be named "Duping needs to be removed".

Edited August 11, 2012 by The_Albatros

[Falcrist 119]

You're an idiot.

This is an alpha, completely full of bugs and exploits.

The L85A2 LWS is rare as hell, and most people have never seen a legit one spawn.

The problem is not the gun, it's the duplicating.

Your thread should be named "Duping needs to be removed".

The problem isn't the duping. The problem is the gun. Duping and hacking only amplifies the problem.

[ramatakahn 38]

Duping next to be fixed instead of removing weapons/equipment.

[skotish 13]

You're an idiot.

This is an alpha, completely full of bugs and exploits.

The L85A2 LWS is rare as hell, and most people have never seen a legit one spawn.

The problem is not the gun, it's the duplicating.

Your thread should be named "Duping needs to be removed".

No this thread is full of idiots including you so wind yer frikken neck in

the OPs right your wrong

[The_Albatros 72]

Have you guys ever even seen an L85A2 LWS?

The way you guys are claiming "overpowered! needs to be removed qq" makes me think you haven't.

It's just a regular gun, uses the same rounds as the M16, except it has a thermal sight.

If there was no duping, you'd be lucky to encounter 1/50 players with one.

[SpeedyBanana 25]

You're an idiot.

This is an alpha, completely full of bugs and exploits.

The L85A2 LWS is rare as hell, and most people have never seen a legit one spawn.

The problem is not the gun, it's the duplicating.

Your thread should be named "Duping needs to be removed".

No... YOU are the idiot. Fixing the duping problem is never going to happen... because they can't. It's a problem with the game design, and it's just another one of the many problems with the Arma II engine. There are too many things hard-coded into this engine that are going to be nearly impossible to fix. They can patch up a few exploits here and there that are easy to fix but they can't really fix duping because of the way your data gets saved to the hive. I'm not going to waste the time to explain the details of why duping works so easily in this game because you could easily do a little research on this yourself if you're not some complete moron.

Unfortunately every dufas (like YOU) thinks.. "well.. dur hur.. just make a patch and fix it... herp derp".... unfortunately... you're too stupid to understand the problem and don't see that what you're saying as about as retarded as "cancer is bad... so... dur hur... just make a pill and fix it... herp derp"

Plain and simple they are just NOT going to be able to fix duping. Again, there is a reason why there are so many ways to do it, it's a problem with how data is saved and it would be rather difficult to fix something that hard-coded into the engine. They are likely going to use the Arma II engine for the standalone as well but they are going to gut the f**k out of it and remove the whole script engine and other parts that make it so easy to hack and completely redesign them. You can't fix duping or a lot of the problems with this game with a simple hotfix.

Duping is not necessarily as big of a problem as the L85 because as I said before, you can be just as effective with a CZ 550 as someone is with an AS50. Aside from the the L85, no gun or item in this game gives you that big of an advantage over anyone else. I don't need night vision goggles as I can just max out my brightness and gamma. I would prefer NVGs obviously but if I don't have them I'm not going to feel completely useless either. I don't need laser range finders either because with a little experience judging distance or a basic understanding of how to use the scope markings to estimate range I can do just as well (actually better because I wouldn't need to switch between items to find a range and then fire).

Having an L85 though gives you a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!! advantage. There is no point of trying to hide and be stealthy vs someone having an L85. If your squad doesn't have one you're going to get demolished by someone who does. Look at this video if you've never used an L85 and tell me this doesn't give you a HUGE advantage in spotting targets.

This gun is ruining the game (not that it's the only thing that's wrong with the game by any stretch) and you need one if you want to be competitive. I like to ghetto it up and I really don't care if I'm using a CZ 500 or a DMR... hell I'll even use a Lee-Enfield, I really don't give a shit. But if someone has an L85 and you don't... you're f**ked

Edited August 11, 2012 by SpeedyBanana

[SpeedyBanana 25]

Here's another great example of the type of gameplay the L85 creates:

Get an L85 / AS50 ... dupe a dozen of them like a tard... sit on a hill... scan from side to side with the thermal until you see a red glowing target from a mile away, pull out your AS50, kill him in one shot, repeat

This is DayZ endgame... thanks to the L85

Watch the whole video and then tell me again how I need to hide better... please... make yourselves look even more stupid than you already have.

Edited August 11, 2012 by SpeedyBanana

[louist 163]

You're an idiot.

This is an alpha, completely full of bugs and exploits.

The L85A2 LWS is rare as hell, and most people have never seen a legit one spawn.

The problem is not the gun, it's the duplicating.

Your thread should be named "Duping needs to be removed".

Found one at my first (and so far only) heli crash. Didn't know anything about it, but it looked interesting, so I tossed in my backpack. Next time I logged on, my pack and reset, and I lost it. Never even put it in my hands.

Le Sigh.

[Ryder (DayZ) 3]

The Thermal Scope on that gun clearly brings nothing to enhancing the experience of playing DayZ. Please remove it.

[blaaarg 8]

Have you guys ever even seen an L85A2 LWS?

The way you guys are claiming "overpowered! needs to be removed qq" makes me think you haven't.

It's just a regular gun, uses the same rounds as the M16, except it has a thermal sight.

If there was no duping, you'd be lucky to encounter 1/50 players with one.

L85 is not a weapon from my point of view, it's a spotting tool. I don't care about the gun, the scope is a problem. It have a limited use since it's really hard to spot under ~400m due to the scope magnification but if you're at the right range... it's almost impossible to hide.

More than a spotting tool for a sniper, it can be extremly powerful if you intel a squad moving to an objectif because they'll know what they are going to face most of the time if you do your job right. A lot of players who discovered ArmA2 with DayZ don't understand how powerful intel can be, weapons are only tools in this game, intel kill you.

Maybe "duping will be fixed", but atm it is not and a lot of people got duped weapons. While using duped weapon, they shadow a large part of the game and we're missing a lot of other problem / balance issue / possible game amelioration that can be discovered because we adapt to an unbalance. (in this case, a guy able to spot then kill solo a target 1km away with two weapon you can only loot on chopper, at a really low %)

Since devs can't fix dupe atm, the other solution is to... remove this weapon until dupe is fixed. Aint mad againt L85, even got one atm (+ a couple in friend's tent) but... it's an alpha, and we need to test all others part of the mod w/o high-end gear everywere in a game were the lucky one should (and will when dupe will be fixed) have an M4 and a couple of mag.

[The_Albatros 72]

lots of words I'm not going to quote because it'll make my post fucking huge

What's the difference between duping NVG's, Rangefinders, AS50's, or anything else in the game? Nothing. Thermal sight isn't as overpowered as you make it out to be.

[louist 163]

L85 is not a weapon from my point of view, it's a spotting tool. I don't care about the gun, the scope is a problem. It have a limited use since it's really hard to spot under ~400m due to the scope magnification but if you're at the right range... it's almost impossible to hide.

More than a spotting tool for a sniper, it can be extremly powerful if you intel a squad moving to an objectif because they'll know what they are going to face most of the time if you do your job right. A lot of players who discovered ArmA2 with DayZ don't understand how powerful intel can be, weapons are only tools in this game, intel kill you.

Maybe "duping will be fixed", but atm it is not and a lot of people got duped weapons. While using duped weapon, they shadow a large part of the game and we're missing a lot of other problem / balance issue / possible game amelioration that can be discovered because we adapt to an unbalance. (in this case, a guy able to spot then kill solo a target 1km away with two weapon you can only loot on chopper, at a really low %)

Since devs can't fix dupe atm, the other solution is to... remove this weapon until dupe is fixed. Aint mad againt L85, even got one atm (+ a couple in friend's tent) but... it's an alpha, and we need to test all others part of the mod w/o high-end gear everywere in a game were the lucky one should (and will when dupe will be fixed) have an M4 and a couple of mag.

Sure, removing it will make it harder to dupe in theory. The problem, as I see it, isn't duping. It's scripting. Removing the gun from DayZ doesn't stop one from simply spawning it. Despite BE's proud message spam, there are still a ton of scripters.

[Zeromentor 169]

The second video showed me that the guy using the thermal is very fast at picking out targets. Not just people in open fields, but the locations they like to hide in. He didn't sweep the area, he picked spots to look directly at, and even stood up to run over and pop another guy.

Either he has a sixth sense about these things, or something else, but either way the thermal seems to just be his affirmation that a player is there, he already suspected such when he looked over there.

Sure, the thermal ruins using concealment (cover is unaffected, as that would be a wall, building or sandbags, and thermal doesn't see THROUGH those) and ruins people's day. But a majority of people stopping inside a bush and giving someone the time to pull out range finders, get the distance, pull out and reload an AS50 and then scope in and fire, well... They aren't there just to eat a snack.

Also, I see thermal as the direct counter to ghillie suits. The rarity of the L85 is suppose to balance it. It's the dupers that make that a dumb thing. But we aren't balancing due to exploits are we? Otherwise, everyone should have godmode. I mean hackers do right? Why not infinite ammo? Hackers get that as well. Teleporting? Jeez, just being laggy gets you that one.

The game isn't balanced around exploits, because exploits are just that. What is the direct counter to thermal? Hard cover. Not a bush, not a tree, not tall grass. That is concealment, and thermal defeats that like it does ghillie suits. Plus, that guy looked at the ghillie suit before getting popped, he had time to fire back. Hesitation sucks.

[louist 163]

The game isn't balanced around exploits, because exploits are just that. What is the direct counter to thermal? Hard cover. Not a bush, not a tree, not tall grass. That is concealment, and thermal defeats that like it does ghillie suits. Plus, that guy looked at the ghillie suit before getting popped, he had time to fire back. Hesitation sucks.

I don't know, it looked to me like trees did provide cover from the thermal. The bushes too, a little bit. But that guy in the bushes wasn't hiding behind them, he was peeking out a bit to have a look around, which gave him away.

[Falcrist 119]

I don't know, it looked to me like trees did provide cover from the thermal. The bushes too, a little bit. But that guy in the bushes wasn't hiding behind them, he was peeking out a bit to have a look around, which gave him away.

Normally you can peak through the bushes without exposing yourself so much that you're blatantly visible. With a L85, anyone with even a foot exposed will be very obvious.

This scope is a detriment to the gameplay. In addition, there's no reason to think you'd find one in the airfield or any of the chopper crashes.

There's no reason for it to be here, and it's not adding anything. It really needs to go.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Falcrist

[Rhygar666 26]

yes should be removed,

while were at it, change the ghilli suit as well, make it bigger around the back were the bagpack is at or make it so you cant use a bagpack at all, maybe the 6 slot czech vest pouch and thats it.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Rhygar666

[Falcrist 119]

yes should be removed,

while were at it, change the ghilli suit as well, make it bigger around the back were the bagpack is at or make it so you cant use a bagpack at all, maybe the 6 slot czech vest pouch and thats it.

Yea, but that's nowhere near as important. Hell, Ghillie suits aren't that hard to find anyway.

Thermal needs to go. Darkness needs to be less stupidly black so that NVGs aren't a requirement for night play (or just make NVGs a bit more common). AM rifles need to be a touch less accurate and easy to use (you really, really shouldn't be able to shoulder fire these things).

Zombies need to be more of a threat to geared players too. They're hardly even an annoyance at the moment.

[Djestr 5]

Along the line of thought of this thread. You would need to remove the range finders, and NVGS , and any weapon with a nightvision scope, as they all give massive advantages.

[Zeromentor 169]

Normally you can peak through the bushes without exposing yourself so much that you're blatantly visible. With a L85, anyone with even a foot exposed will be very obvious.

This scope is so grossly out of balance with the rest of the game that it's a detriment to the gameplay. In addition, there's no reason to think you'd find one in the airfield or any of the chopper crashes.

There's no reason for it to be here, and it's not adding anything. It really needs to go.

But remember, a bush is not cover. It is concealment. Thermal will catch you.

But so will a good spotter. Movement, backpacks, black hats, a gun barrel, all these things give away your position. The thermal just increases how much they do. But if you took true cover (and yes, I know outside of large rocks, there isn't any true cover in the forests) you would not be seen.

But the same thing could be argued about Ghillie suits.

Poor at close range, useless against zombies, doesn't work in cities. Instead of picking out targets, they conceal you against onlookers. But in this case, Ghillie suit users are their own worst enemy. As many don't even try to use concealment, but instead just prone or crouch in the grass. Not like it matters, ghillies suits won't be removed. The only reason the M107 TWS was (was that the right weapon?) was due to the combination of the thermal sight and 1-hit wonder round. Which is still used with people flipping from the L85 to the AS50, but they need to take up 10 additional slots just for a sight, not even including ammunition.

Not to mention, outside of dupers, I have never even seen an L85. Same with NVGs. I've seen like 5, and I have never found a pair actually on the ground.

[oyci3c 2]

Not to mention, outside of dupers, I have never even seen an L85. Same with NVGs. I've seen like 5, and I have never found a pair actually on the ground.

Bad luck.

Found NVG and LS85 @ heli crash and also RangeFinder, NVG & SVD Camo @ barracks.

Well tbh I found many NVG @ barracks laying on ground.

[Falcrist 119]

But remember, a bush is not cover. It is concealment. Thermal will catch you.

Isn't that what I said?

Thermal completely negates concealment in the game. It's unrealistic to expect to find one in a helicopter crash. It's a detriment to gameplay. It needs to be removed.

You keep mentioning dupers… what do you think would happen in a dupe/hack/bug free environment? Almost every single L85 would remain in circulation while more and more would be found. These things would proliferate much faster than you seem to estimate.

[oleg86@msn.com 101]

Isn't that what I said?

Thermal completely negates concealment in the game. It's unrealistic to expect to find one in a helicopter crash. It's a detriment to gameplay. It needs to be removed.

You keep mentioning dupers… what do you think would happen in a dupe/hack/bug free environment? Almost every single L85 would remain in circulation while more and more would be found. These things would proliferate much faster than you seem to estimate.

Needs to be removed because you dont have it?

i get it now

[Zeromentor 169]

Isn't that what I said?

Thermal completely negates concealment in the game. It's unrealistic to expect to find one in a helicopter crash. It's a detriment to gameplay. It needs to be removed.

You keep mentioning dupers… what do you think would happen in a dupe/hack/bug free environment? Almost every single L85 would remain in circulation while more and more would be found. These things would proliferate much faster than you seem to estimate.

This is an alpha, and most of the time games are wiped in beta or on release. That means EVERYTHING is deleted from the saves. No duped items.

I expect this to happen either when Arma3 comes out, or when the game goes standalone. Either way, all the duped stuff will be gone forever, baring someone finding a new way to dupe items.

And Thermal sights are a counter to concealment, like NVGs are a counter to nighttime, Ghillies are a counter to some looking in your direction, and grenades are a counter to someone hiding in a building.

Want more counters? AS50 nato .50cal rounds for vehicles, as well are M136s. And heatpacks for cold. Antibiotics for catching a disease, and let's look at silenced weapons. They counter themselves.

L85s are suppose to be extremely rare. Ghillies are less so. Thermals are a hard counter to people hiding in bushes and ghillie-suit users hiding on hilltops. You don't balance a game based on exploits, you fix those exploits.

[Falcrist 119]

Needs to be removed because you dont have it?

i get it now

I'm sorry, I've only said that I own one TWICE.

Let me say it again since you obviously can't read.

I have an L85AWS. As a matter of fact, it duped today, and I haven't had the heart to dispose of the one that's still in my tent.

This is an alpha, and most of the time games are wiped in beta or on release. That means EVERYTHING is deleted from the saves. No duped items.

I expect this to happen either when Arma3 comes out, or when the game goes standalone. Either way, all the duped stuff will be gone forever, baring someone finding a new way to dupe items.

Please read my post before you post a response. It makes you look silly when you argue against a point I didn't make.

And Thermal sights are a counter to concealment, like NVGs are a counter to nighttime, Ghillies are a counter to some looking in your direction, and grenades are a counter to someone hiding in a building.

Want more counters? AS50 nato .50cal rounds for vehicles, as well are M136s. And heatpacks for cold. Antibiotics for catching a disease, and let's look at silenced weapons. They counter themselves.

The problem is that none of the things you mentioned alter the game in such a dramatic way as thermal. I'm not opposed to gear giving an advantage, but this isn't world of warcraft. Gear shouldn't be the deciding factor. With the L85, it really is. The difference in the advantage you gain from a thermal scope is at least one order greater than the advantage you gain from having a AM rifle. That's far too much. In case you're one of the people who believe that balance should never be a consideration, it's ALSO not realistic for these things to be lying around in a helicopter crash site in tact, and require no battery.

[Tigger (DayZ) 24]

Btw, if you can't find the L85, you aren't looking well enough. Forests are full of tents with them in.