Thermal sight needs to be removed

[Zeromentor 169]

Looks like someone doesn't know what a texture hack is. ;)

It's ok, bro. Everyone has to learn at some point.

I can change textures from anything to pink, and everything else to grey. Makes it easy to spot people. But I don't.

I don't care.

But thanks for the subtle insult.

[Falcrist 119]

I can change textures from anything to pink, and everything else to grey. Makes it easy to spot people. But I don't.

I don't care.

But thanks for the subtle insult.

Now, now. There's no need to get butthurt. You can just get an L85 and make everyone white against a red background. :D

[Zeromentor 169]

the points that have been mentioned:

1. realism - scope would 99% never survive crash

2. duping/hacking - until fixed, everyone has one

3. economy - until they get rid of inflation, everyone will have one

4. gameplay - it takes away skill from having to actually use your eyes/ears to locate people

only one of those has anything remotely to do with balance. The game will never be "balanced," but it will/should always reward players with higher skill. Every time a point gets countered that you don't like, you just switch to another one.

1. I want to see your sources, just so I can see where I was wrong.

2. If everyone has one, why is it that most of the people I kill, even those with AS50s and NVGs, don't have one?

3. Everyone has NVGs, Vehicles and AS50s, too, right?

4. Ghillies take away the importance of using concealment. .50 cal rifles take away the importance of AIM, as any bullet insta-kills. M136s... Yeah, I can miss you and still kill your whole team and your truck for good measure, with 1 rocket. EDIT: M203 HE, I miss and you still take 8k damage and get knocked out. Frag grenades make cover indoors useless. Tents make death useless. Trucks make running useless, but fuel gets a use. Give and take. If you start using the L85 and stop using your ears, people will walk up behind you can get a new L85 as a gift from your corpse.

I counter points as I can. I switch because I've hit the same point over and over again. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER... It becomes tedious.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Zeromentor

[Lother 0]

Wait, let me get this straight... Thermal can see THROUGH things? What?

It dosnt have to, everything that dosnt render at greater distances dosnt have to be seen through... there are no render issues in real life though.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Lother

[derrida (DayZ) 18]

1. I want to see your sources, just so I can see where I was wrong.

2. If everyone has one, why is it that most of the people I kill, even those with AS50s and NVGs, don't have one?

3. Everyone has NVGs, Vehicles and AS50s, too, right?

4. Ghillies take away the importance of using concealment. .50 cal rifles take away the importance of AIM, as any bullet insta-kills. M136s... Yeah, I can miss you and still kill your whole team and your truck for good measure, with 1 rocket.

I counter points as I can. I switch because I've hit the same point over and over again. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER... It becomes tedious.

1. have you ever owned a scope? this should be common sense. If you have evidence otherwise (other than reverse engineering--which is extremely difficult and takes an entire professional team), please post it.

2.-3. it should be clear that "everyone" is an exaggeration. the last few weeks there's been a huge influx of players into the game, so the problem isn't as bad as it could be right now. still, it's pretty easy already to see the effects of inflation. About 50% of people I run into on cherno/elektro sniping hills have these items right now. Once new players stop coming into the game in droves, the problem will get even worse, because there's no current way to deal with inflation.

4. you're just side-stepping here. this is not a thread about ghillies or .50 cal, it's about the thermal scope. that said, I disagree that ghilles and the .50 cal are "imbalanced" or whatever you were trying to say....ghillies are pretty easy to spot if you know where to look, and as most people have said, the as50 only really gives you a significant advantage against moving targets.

Edited August 11, 2012 by derrida

[Zeromentor 169]

1. have you ever owned a scope? this should be common sense. If you have evidence otherwise (other than reverse engineering--which is extremely difficult and takes an entire professional team), please post it.

2.-3. it should be clear that "everyone" is an exaggeration. the last few weeks there's been a huge influx of players into the game, so the problem isn't as bad as it could be right now. still, it's pretty easy already to see the effects of inflation. About 50% of people I run into on cherno/elektro sniping hills have these items right now. Once new players stop coming into the game in droves, the problem will get even worse, because there's no current way to deal with inflation.

4. you're just side-stepping here. this is not a thread about ghillies or .50 cal, it's about the thermal scope. that said, I disagree that ghilles and the .50 cal are "imbalanced" or whatever you were trying to say....ghillies are pretty easy to spot if you know where to look, and as most people have said, the as50 only really gives you a significant advantage against moving targets.

1. I will test this on my red dot sight, by throwing it across my room multiple times. I will edit to tell you how many attempts it took to break it. NOTE: My floor is concrete.

2-3. Okay. Tell me these servers with 50% of the people. I want these items, and snipers camping are my main source of rifles.

4. Tell me everything a thermal sight can do. You have time, I'll be trying to break a 20$ red dot sight (please note: I also own 2 rifle scopes, which I will not test due to their cost, a holographic site which is real, and this red dot.)

EDIT1: Testing Red dot to see if it still works, without being thrown. Yep, works, starting test 1. End of test 1: Thrown against wall, dropped from 5 feet, no damage.

EDIT2: Hit it with a metal flashlight, hit both lens. No damage to either, red dot still works without flashing.

EDIT3: Third and final test, gentle tossed red dot into the air roughly 5 feet over my head (I'm approx 5'11", so that's a 10 foot fall, or slightly less than 3 meters), then I slammed it against the ground (note: Concrete) with due force. No lens are damaged, though one side of the lens has a small dent now. Red dot works, lith battery didn't even pop out.

And this is from an Aftermath AIRSOFT 20$ red dot sight. Sure, thermals and nightvision are easier to break (maybe), but a military version with over 7,000 USD cost probably can withstand a lot more.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Zeromentor

[derrida (DayZ) 18]

you're seriously comparing throwing a scope at a wall 5 ft away to a heli crash impact?

nice physics

[Falcrist 119]

1. I will test this on my red dot sight, by throwing it across my room multiple times. I will edit to tell you how many attempts it took to break it. NOTE: My floor is concrete.

1) a red dot isn't a scope

2) normal scopes will break with only a short drop onto concrete. I've experienced this personally.

3) even normal scopes don't have delicate thermal systems in them as a AWS would

4) the test should be dropping an actual scope off a building at least 5 stories high onto concrete. The scope should be attached to a gun (EDIT—the gun should weigh about 11 pounds, and be constructed of steel). Do that, and let us know how it goes.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Falcrist

[Mastiff (DayZ) 42]

Remove thermal scope? Remove Ghillie suits then...

[Zeromentor 169]

1) a red dot isn't a scope

2) normal scopes will break with only a short drop onto concrete. I've experienced this personally.

3) even normal scopes don't have delicate thermal systems in them as a AWS would

4) the test should be dropping an actual scope off a building at least 5 stories high onto concrete. The scope should be attached to a gun. Do that, and let us know how it goes.

1. Okay, good call.

2. Sucks for you, I've never had this happen. If I were you, I'd try to get a refund from walmart.

3. See 4.

4. The helio crashed. The gun doesn't seem to have dropped from the crashed huey, but instead spilled out onto the ground when the zeds walked out of the crash site. Dropping a scope from 5 stories is great for breaking a scope, but doesn't have the same impact force (sure, neither does slamming a red dot into concrete) as it being in someone's hand, or harnessed to something as the helio crashed. EDIT: Also, I live in the country side, the nearest 5 story buildings are the condos on the coast.

If the zombies, whom are still alive, survived the crash, it isn't impossible for a scope to. Remember, zombies in this game are NOT undead. Without watching it crash, we can't even tell if the crash was that bad. Remember, these things are built to soak up the force when they hit, so the people inside survive. Same with modern cars.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Zeromentor

[Zeromentor 169]

you're seriously comparing throwing a scope at a wall 5 ft away to a heli crash impact?

nice physics

I'm trying to show that sights are not as weak as people seem to think. And it wasn't a wall. It was a concrete floor. Let's do another test, try jumping off a chair into concrete, use your head for this study.

Let's find some helicopter crash footage, see what kind of damage I need. If I need to, I'll run over the sight with my truck (Ford F-150, 1997)

[Falcrist 119]

4. The helio crashed. The gun doesn't seem to have dropped from the crashed huey, but instead spilled out onto the ground when the zeds walked out of the crash site. Dropping a scope from 5 stories is great for breaking a scope, but doesn't have the same impact force (sure, neither does slamming a red dot into concrete) as it being in someone's hand, or harnessed to something as the helio crashed. EDIT: Also, I live in the country side, the nearest 5 story buildings are the condos on the coast.

If the gun didn't spill out of the chopper as it crashed, it's not going to spill out because some infected are shambling around it.

If the zombies, whom are still alive, survived the crash, it isn't impossible for a scope to. Remember, zombies in this game are NOT undead. Without watching it crash, we can't even tell if the crash was that bad. Remember, these things are built to soak up the force when they hit, so the people inside survive. Same with modern cars.

The zombies were obviously properly secured if they survived like that (unless they bailed and parachuted). The firearms lying around the chopper were evidently not. A scope like that bouncing around in a hardened steel enclosure like a huey is going to sustain some damage.

[jameswjwong@gmail.com 14]

*munch*

*Needs a poll

[derrida (DayZ) 18]

By all means, please run over your sight with your truck to prove a point online about thermal scopes surviving heli crashes. Please, for the sake of the thread

Edited August 11, 2012 by derrida

[Zeromentor 169]

If the gun didn't spill out of the chopper as it crashed, it's not going to spill out because some infected are shambling around it.

The zombies were obviously properly secured if they survived like that (unless they bailed and parachuted). The firearms lying around the chopper were evidently not. A scope like that bouncing around in a hardened steel enclosure like a huey is going to sustain some damage.

Bailed and parachuted? I'm done with you. I'll be kind and try to answer the rest:

If the zombies were secured, it can be said the guns were probably secured as well. Once the zombies got loose, who can say they didn't drop their weapons on the ground, or kicked them out when they walked out.

But seriously... Bailed and parachuted...

You might as well told me they had ejection seats in hueys.

[Zeromentor 169]

By all means, please run over your sight with your truck to prove a point online about thermal scopes surviving heli crashes. Please, for the sake of the thread

I would, but obviously any attempts to prove a point are lost on the dimwitted crowd.

I could film myself crashing a helio, pulling a gun from a secured seat and fire it, prove the sight works and then you'd come in here and say, "How do we know you didn't edit the footage?"

Have fun. I'm out. Get ready to whine for months about the L85 staying ingame.

[derrida (DayZ) 18]

damn, it almost worked

[Falcrist 119]

Bailed and parachuted? I'm done with you. I'll be kind and try to answer the rest:

If the zombies were secured, it can be said the guns were probably secured as well. Once the zombies got loose, who can say they didn't drop their weapons on the ground, or kicked them out when they walked out.

But seriously... Bailed and parachuted...

You might as well told me they had ejection seats in hueys.

I'm sure everyone in the entire chopper instantly became a mindless infected, right?

That's almost as idiotic as assuming a thermal sight is going to survive a crash like that unharmed.

Thanks for providing hours of entertainment to the thread. You've been pretty funny to watch. :)

[gizm0 96]

course you can. if you get caught by thermal you're not concealing well enough. try harder.

works fine. working as intended.

don't be butthurt.

agreed most concealment hides your body heat, however most zones don't have areas that one can always be in 100% concealment.

[SpeedyBanana 25]

Agree. Thermal takes away 90% of the skill involved with sniping. Unless duping/hacking get fixed (which will likely never happen until standalone), the best fix would just be to remove it from the game.

I also agree that in the long term, something needs to be done to "bleed out" items from the game. Right now, unless a body is hidden, items continue to remain and spawn into the game, making the average value of everyone's items go up. The fastest way to get rare items now is to kill other snipers rather than try to find them yourself. Items in this game have an economy, just like any other MMO. Long term, something should be done to deal with inflation, or it will only be so long before everyone has the highest end gear in the game (even if it's legitimately obtained).

This is exactly it, even if you remove duping (which they can't until standalone) more and more people are going to get this. Yes some of them may never get looted or explode in a car or whatnot, but the vast majority of them will remain in circulation and will only increase with time. If they can fix duping they would still need to find a way to not only make this item rare, but also keep it being rare.

[Sakeoe (DayZ) 115]

By all means, please run over your sight with your truck to prove a point online about thermal scopes surviving heli crashes. Please, for the sake of the thread

Beans if someone does this.

[Deneme 8]

Here's another great example of the type of gameplay the L85 creates:

Get an L85 / AS50 ... dupe a dozen of them like a tard... sit on a hill... scan from side to side with the thermal until you see a red glowing target from a mile away, pull out your AS50, kill him in one shot, repeat

This is DayZ endgame... thanks to the L85

Watch the whole video and then tell me again how I need to hide better... please... make yourselves look even more stupid than you already have.

And this is exactly why thermal sight needs to be removed from the game. Camoflauge/ghille skins and properly hiding yourself in bushes/trees means nothing to such a thing. Hell, I am still impartial on the whole NVG thing and think everyone should be running around with flashlights/chemlights/flares/underbarrled flashlights

[snewt 0]

I think thermal is entirely too overpowered, clearly seen in the op's video.

Edited August 11, 2012 by snewt